Re: CALL FOR SPONSORSHIP: The Open Group Ware Project

[Dan Kuykendall]

Why not put it up as a SourceForge project?
This is what I had planned to do at some point anyways.

Dan

"David A. Cobb" wrote:
> 
> OK, Who will provide a web host & mailing list processor (as a start) to throw
> this
> around?  First or lowest bidder?  I am not beholden to anyone (yet - they
> don't
> pay me :-} ), CollabNet has been good to OpenOffice but GLUE might give us
> more
> common ground.
> 
> Dan Kuykendall wrote:
> 
> > > == Recognizing The Potential:
> > >
> > > Evo and OO both recognize that comprehensive groupware functions GREATLY
> > > enhance the appeal of their respective products:  Evo sees shared
> > > calendars, shared contacts, a user-administered back-end permissions
> > > system, etc. all contribute to making Evo more valuable.
> >
> > Can I mention that phpGroupWare (and other such solutions) would also
> > benefit greatly by a joint effort? We are already moving toward doing
> > this all by ourselves, but could benefit from a shared effort.
> >
> > > ==  Facing The Reality
> > >
> > > Evo and OO realize that building something that competes (at least on
> > > some level) with Exchange and Notes is a significant undertaking.  Their
> > > products are shaping up, but there is still a LOT of work to do.  Time
> > > is of the essence.  Both groups conclude that their time is better spent
> > > working on their core products; but gosh-darn-it, it sure would be nice
> > > to have those back-end features.
> >
> > Ahhh the ever present dilemma. I think that this can be solved. In fact
> > I am working on solving part of this with the phpGroupWare project (will
> > explain more later).
> >
> > > == The Light Comes On
> > >
> > > Evo and OO know what what open source is all about.  They
> > > advocate/cheerlead/champion an open groupware initiative, put out a call
> > > for developers, post notices on their websites, and sound the general
> > > call to arms:  "We want to free countless corporate employees and system
> > > administrators from the tyrannies of expensive, proprietary groupware
> > > systems and the whims of their vendors!"  To get critical mass, they
> > > might ask some other prominent open source groups - or - gasp - a
> > > standards body - to get on board.
> >
> > Why in the world isn't this happening?!
> > I spend countless hours trying to talk with other groupware projects and
> > constantly try and find out if they are building any kind of inter
> > operability between their and my project, but am shut down with little
> > to no real consideration. Im ready to play ball with other projects. Im
> > ready to make this dream reality. I just cannot do it alone.
> >
> > > == The Call Goes Out
> > >
> > > Evo and OO are pretty well-known among the open source community;
> > > developers hear about this "open groupware standards" thing and become
> > > interested.  The founders of the 20 or so groupware projects that have
> > > languished still-born on sourceforge are reinvigorated by this call to
> > > action, thinking "Hey, I won't be ALONE this time, I'll have Ximian and
> > > OO on my side, and all these other developers are interested too!"  They
> > > call their project sidekicks in on it.  Eventually a persuasive
> > > charismatic (or two) emerges, like a Jobs or de Icaza.  He spreads the
> > > gospel at conventions:  "We're taking it to the next level, people!"
> >
> > Why not start now? Im ready... what about leaders of other groupware
> > project? I will start a mailing list if needed, but I think that maybe
> > FSF would be more appropriate.
> > I am in the middle of creating the "Open Source GroupWare Foundation"
> > which is going to start by taking control of phpGroupWare, working as a
> > governing body to help push phpGW development in a focused direction.
> > Right now we are in the process of a complete cleanup of our code. As
> > soon as this process is done I will be starting a draft for an
> > XML-RPC/SOAP interface to the API and core apps (email, calendar, todo,
> > notes). This XML-RPC/SOAP interface will open up our interface and data
> > store to any number of programming languages. This is where the "Open
> > Source GroupWare Foundation" will help step in and maintain the
> > XML-RPC/SOAP interfaces and work with app developers who want to build
> > interfaces in GTK, VB, C++ or whatever. So the idea is to start with
> > what we have, but work toward opening it up to other languages.
> > At some point we will probably start development of the back end using C
> > which will be a full blown daemon. Of course it will have a built in
> > http server which will be responsible for transporting the xml-rpc/soap
> > data.
> >
> > I personally think that XML-RPC/SOAP is the best way to go for the back
> > end services required for all these GroupWare clients to use.
> > XML-RPC/SOAP is supported by most major programming languages, its
> > flexible and fairly well designed, its network centric and it is very
> > buzzword compliant. Just think of how kick ass it will be to offer a
> > free and open .NET groupware service before M$ does. I think it can be
> > done. I think with my start in phpGW it can be done.
> >
> > Granted I don't think that PHP is the best long term solution, but I am
> > already working in this direction, and everyone else seems to be lost in
> > committee. The phpGW development is pushing ahead with or without anyone
> > else, but would of course rather have some heavy weights such as OO and
> > EVO working with us to make sure that the XML-RPC/SOAP structures we
> > build are properly re-usable by any groupware client. Building this
> > structure is the most important part. The backend code (PHP) can easily
> > be replaced by a better/faster solution if it becomes necessary.
> >
> > > == The Word Is Heard  (or: "Gentlemen: I give you - OOGS!")
> >
> > <nitpick>What is the second O for?</nitpick>
> > I say we start drafting OGWS (Open GroupWare Standard) using
> > XML-RPC/SOAP now. I will build phpGW as the first implementation of the
> > backend (unless someone can beat me to it).
> >
> > If no one joins me, I will do it myself. I have already been working
> > toward this and will keep doing so. Those that join will simply make
> > sure I do it the best way possible.
> >
> > > As Evo and OO's interest in open groupware standards rises, they start
> > > talking to each other more about interoperability.  Neither wants their
> > > fate tied to the fate of the other, but they find areas where they can
> > > cooperate and benefit without risking their own positions.
> >
> > This is where a backend that is completely separated from the GUI's will
> > benefit everyone.
> > BTW, my XML-RPC/SOAP implementation will take into account vCard and the
> > iCalendar standards. I personally don't think a whole lot of iTIP since
> > I have yet to see a single iTIP daemon. Also as a stand alone daemon it
> > seems far too limited. You would end up talking to IMAP for email, iTIP
> > for calendar/todo, maybe some kind of vCard daemon for contacts... I
> > think it MUCH easier for everyone if the XML-RPC/SOAP services deal with
> > the data and leave the client side to giving the user a rich and useful
> > tool.
> >
> > > == Stirrings in the Volcano Island Fortress
> > >
> > > The proprietary vendors pretend to ignore OOGS.  They don't even mention
> > > the word.  They forbid their employees to discuss it.  But in the upper
> > > echelons, they're reading everything about OOGS that they can get their
> > > hands on. Extra-double-plus-good lieutentants are permitted to install
> > > the OOGS betas, and submit secret reports to the bigshots.  Finally,
> > > when eWeek or C-Net run an article on it, they break down and issue a
> > > statement:
> >
> > Isn't this the funniest part?
> >
> > > == OOGS 1.0
> >
> >  == OGWS 1.0
> >
> > > Soon,  the world is a brighter place.  Thousands of people are using
> > > OOGS, many of them not knowing it or caring, but nonetheless enjoying
> > > the very real benefits of a choice of
> > > mail/organizer/calendar/document-sharing clients.
> > >
> > > And they all live happily ever after.
> >
> > Can we get some singing and dancing munchcins for good measure?
> >
> > > I"ll leave it to you to decide where the plausibility ends and pure
> > > fantasy begins :-).  But stranger things have happened - and are
> > > happening right now in our midst, I would say.
> >
> > Well, fantasy will become reality at least in something getting done.
> > Its only up to everyone else to start working together on this backend
> > to define it properly.
> > I am not the most talented programmer in the world, but I am not sitting
> > still. The team that works with me are excited and forward thinking. We
> > will move to open up our backend to other languages, and just hope that
> > everyone else takes advantage of our efforts. If not, I know I did what
> > i could.
> >
> > Seek3r (aka Dan Kuykendall)
> 
> --
> David A. Cobb, Software Engineer, Public Access Advocate.  Public Key at:
> <http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=superbiskit>
> "Don't buy or use crappy software"
> "By the grace of God I am a Christian man,
>  by my actions a great sinner" -- The Way of a Pilgrim [R. M. French, tr.]