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Re: [GNU-linux-libre] DSFG in perpetuity

From: bill-auger
Subject: Re: [GNU-linux-libre] DSFG in perpetuity
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2018 22:21:09 -0400
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i really can not speak to any experiences you may have had on this list
in the past - i have only been active on this list for about one year
and i have not seen anything particularly negative about pureos in that time

personally, i have insufficient facts to form an opinion of either
pureos or purism; so i would not presume to do so, neither privately nor
publicly - im just glad you joined the discussion - please do pardon any
perceived animosity - none was intended

On 03/25/2018 05:58 AM, Zlatan Todoric wrote:
> next time please go to our bugtracker
> and report a bug there and start discussion
> Simply removing chromium is a disservice
> for average user and it shouldn't be a task taken easily.

the decision to remove chromium was not taken lightly by anyone - this
community has been discussing it for several years - i did not report
that issue to pureos - it had been there already for several months when
i found it - all i could have possibly done in the context of pureos
specifically, would have been to "up-vote" the existing tracker issue
like: "yea me too +1" - but i would not presume to do any such thing -
bug trackers are not popularity polls and software licenses are not
subjective - most objectively speaking, any wad of software is either
freely distributable as a whole or it is not - it is very unfortunate
that down-streams are burdened to determine that subjectively in this
case - but the main purpose of this discussion group is to resolve such
issues that affect all FSDG distros equally - and so, because that issue
affects every FSDG distro equally; the bug tracker of one distro is not
the proper place to discuss it - it is regretful if pureos was ever made
to feel unwelcome to community discussion in the past - i hope we can
change that going forward

On 03/25/2018 05:58 AM, Zlatan Todoric wrote:> Debian kernel itself is
entirely free but there was issues with messages
> that was brought to us and we worked on it both in PureOS and Debian at
> same time.

i really can not to speak to that issue at all - that is a sticky mess
that the FSF created and one that only they can resolve; but whatever
determination is reached should be something that all FSDG distros are
bound to equally - just as with the chromium issue, i favor no
particular decision myself - but i do want to see everyone on the same
page - if the pureos folks can solve that kernel logging issue; please
do post the result here on this list - no one here is expected to be
reading the pureos bug tracker and certainly not the debian bug tracker

On 03/25/2018 05:58 AM, Zlatan Todoric wrote:
> You have bug tracker for PureOS if you want to work with PureOS
> community and not stretch us on dozen of sides.

if i am interpreting that statement correctly, it reads like an
uncomfortable ultimatum - i think you have this relationship inverted -
and please do not implicate me directly as if i had any obligations here
- i am just a volunteer with no particular interest in pureos other than
the fact that pureos wants to be accepted as part of the greater GNU
community - my intention here is only to encourage all DSFG distros to
participate in the discussions of common issues - discussions of common
issues are more fruitful in a common place; not the issue tracker of one

if pureos hopes to be accepted warmly into the greater GNU community;
then i would think that pureos would be inclined, of it's own
initiative, to participate in the community discussions - then perhaps
some interest would begin flowing in the other direction

it is regretful if anyone working on pureos has taken any personal
offense to any words printed to this mailing list in the past - i could
see this becoming a fruitful relationship between GNU and pureos; but
please try not to take anything personally - myself, i would be the
first one to defend any project if i saw anyone spreading FUD - but on
the other hand, i can not align myself with people who uses such
emotionally charged language in a professional context

people are not "toxic" and neither are opinions or language - chlorine
is toxic - such loaded words are not appropriate in a professional
context - they only serve to inject emotional subjectivity into an
otherwise sane professional context unnecessarily - for example, i am
very much unwilling to "play nice in a work context" - that very request
portrays the speaker's co-workers as children; which is as belittling to
both - i may "play nice" in a play-time context; but in a professional
context, i prefer to "behave as a mature adult" - that is not intending
to be facetious; the particular words people choose are extremely
important, especially in asynchronous digital text form - again, i dont
claim to be any representative of this group - i can only speak to this
for myself; but in my experience, simply avoiding highly emotionally
charged language generally allows people to get along more amicably
through adversities; and is the basis for much-needed diplomacy in this
ever-shrinking world we live in

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