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Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Viro: "you are preaching to non-believers"
From: |
Alexander Terekhov |
Subject: |
Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Viro: "you are preaching to non-believers" |
Date: |
Sat, 16 Jun 2007 20:33:15 +0200 |
Al Viro wrote:
>
> On Sat, Jun 16, 2007 at 01:57:59PM -0300, Alexandre Oliva wrote:
> > On Jun 16, 2007, Bernd Schmidt <bernds_cb1@t-online.de> wrote:
> >
> > > Alexandre Oliva wrote:
> > >> On Jun 15, 2007, Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> What this means for the FSF goals if Tivo get up one morning and switch
> > >>> their system firmware to ROM however is interesting 8)
> > >>
> > >> I'm not the FSF, and I don't speak for it, but it seems to me that
> > >> this would be "mission accomplished".
> >
> > > This is insane. You start with a lofty ideal involving "freedom", and
> > > when you end up with a meaningless technicality (and in technical terms
> > > a change for the worse) you consider it a victory?
> >
> > It accomplishes the mission in that everyone is on the same grounds.
> > Same freedom for everyone. If the vendor tries to keep a privilege
> > over the software to itself, denying it to its customers, it's failing
> > to comply with the spirit of the license. It's really this simple.
> > Is this so hard to understand?
> >
> > The goal is not to push vendors away from GPLed software. If they
> > can't permit modification of the software, that's fine, they can still
> > accomplish this.
> >
> > What they can't do is deny it to customers while they retain it to
> > themselves. This is unfair, this is wrong, and this disrespects
> > users' freedoms. Therefore, the GPL should not permit it.
>
> How the hell does that improve the situation for users? Alexandre,
> please realize that you are preaching to non-believers. I realize
> that you have accepted the FSF credo, but if you want that conversation
> to go anywhere you have to separate the things you believe in from
> the things you can rationally explain. Apologetics of your variety is
> not going to cut it. _Can_ you separate the things relying on your
> beliefs from the things that can stand on their own? If you can't
> do that, please stop wasting everyone's time and bandwidth. It's
> a secular maillist; what any of us might happen to believe in is personal
> and frankly, none of your damn business.
> -
regards,
alexander.
--
"Live cheaply," he said, offering some free advice. "Don't buy a house,
a car or have children. The problem is they're expensive and you have
to spend all your time making money to pay for them."
-- Free Software Foundation's Richard Stallman: 'Live Cheaply'
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Linus: "I'm intelligent", (continued)
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Linus: "I'm intelligent", Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/14
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Linus: "It's about keeping *me* happy ... Your *IDIOTIC* suggestion is explicitly against the whole POINT!", Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/14
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Linus: "the current GPLv3 draft looks fine apart from ... Just google for torvalds tit-for-tat ... I don't ask for money.", Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/14
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Brownawell: "GPLv3, DFSG, Tivo, and GPLv3 (a different part of it)", Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/16
- dot Communist Eben meets Indian Marxist-Leninist (his life after GPLv3 so to speak :-) ), Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/16
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Linus: "GPLv2 does not state that you have to become a slave of rms", Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/16
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Linus: "I've been told by several independent sources..." (re "GPLv2 is not a 'contract' but a 'pure copyright license'"), Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/16
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Landley: "Not Going There (tm)" (re 'license' vs 'contract'), Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/16
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- SYS-CON: "Think Linus Will Defer to Sun on GPLv3? The Answer May Hinge on a Bottle of Wine", Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/16
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Landley: "Not Going There (tm)" (re 'license' vs 'contract'), rjack, 2007/06/16
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Viro: "you are preaching to non-believers",
Alexander Terekhov <=
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Viro: "_that_ is a final draft?", Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/19
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Williams: "it's time to drop the GPL", Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/19
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Harkes: "GPLv3 seems to fall short on actually preventing tivoization", Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/19
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Linus: "Face it, the 'open source' crowd is the *bigger* crowd", Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/19
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Viro: "How many GPL spirits can dance on the end of a pin?", Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/19
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Comment 3380: Combining propietary and GPL code, Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/21
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Rosen: "Comments on GPLv3", Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/21
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Comment 3452: This hurts both users and hardware vendors, Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/22
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Comment 3446: Saving provision, Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/22
- Re: GPLv3 comedy unfolding -- Brazilian GNUtian Oliva: "how about mutual compatibility between Linux's GPLv2 and GPLv3?", Alexander Terekhov, 2007/06/22