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Re: GNU Kind Communication Guidelines versus social contract or Codes of
Re: GNU Kind Communication Guidelines versus social contract or Codes of Conduct
Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:37:03 +0100
* Andreas Enge <address@hidden> [2019-11-06 10:34]:
> starting with the subject of your message, it conflates two completely
> unrelated concepts: a social contract, which is a mission statement and
> statement of the general principles of an organisation, as well with respect
> to the inner workings as well as an engagement to the outer world; and a code
> of conduct, that gives rules about expected behaviour in a given context
> (conference attendance, mailing list postings, and so on), as well as a
> procedure that can be followed if the rules are broken.
> If you start by equating two unrelated concepts, nothing useful can come
> out of a discussion.
They may be in practice often intertwined, they are not practically
completely unrelated concepts.
Point of that message which you quoted is to encourage contributions
from anybody. As you are signer of the public shaming of GNU project
and RMS, obviously people are discouraged of contributing. I have
given you few clear evidences.
Can you see that it is discouraging and not welcoming contributions?
Do you understand that mentioning various GNU projects causes
contributors in those GNU projects not contribute if they find
fallacies in your public shamings statement?
As a signer of public shaming, I cannot know what is your motivation
as related to encouraging contributions. It appears you have same
Am I right? Please answer me?
Real question is what can be done to welcome new contributions to GNU
Could we try creating practical applicable methods to welcome
contributions to GNU project?
We need practical applicable method or manner on how to welcome and
invite more contributions to GNU project.
There is one way and other way to agree on same purpose.
As unless you answer my above questions negatively, we are on the same
purpose which is to welcome more contributions, there is just the
method or manner that is not practical, rather destructive way to do
it, and there is other method or manner that is practical and
Calling out to negativities whatever they may be, just or unjust,
founded or not founded, argumented or not argumented, is negative way
of trying to achieve more contributions. It attracts Streisand
effect. It is one of the ways of doing things. To be more specific,
your public shamings page on Guix project is one type of manner of
trying to attract more contributors. You just think that public
shamings is the way to go. And I don't. But we are on same purpose to
attract more contributors.
And what is result of the public shaming campaign? Did you apply the
method as some engineer who knows the work of public relations and did
you actually achieve more contributors and contributions to GNU
Or did you achieve contrary effect, to lose fans of Guix system, and
to lose contributors to Guix? As this was evident from one of my
previous references to loss of contributions and Guix fan' support.
Other way is to encourage practically and applicably more
contributors. For example, if you maybe think that women is less or if
you are sharing opinion that women is by any manner harassed or
discriminated, then you could make a campaign on Guix pages to welcome
I hope that you understand this.
In summary one can point out to negativity, while not being effective
and practical, resulting with zero new contributions to Guix project
or any others based on such.
Count if you got new women contributions because of that public
shamings you people issued. Count it, and see, as that is the
result. You should also count comments from people who felt harassed
by that statement and publicly stated to remove their contributions
from Guix. Observe your method of achieving the same purpose, analyse
And then one can devise practical ways that would efficiently bring
new women into Guix. Then you could actually count new contributions
by women to Guix, and you could say you are doing something
positive. And people would give more support to Guix and other GNU
projects, and there would be more contributions.
Let me give you examples of positive, practical and efficient methods
of achieving the same purpose we talk about (encouraging
How Do You Start a Career in Tech? –Lightning Talk Night–
The article starts with:
"Dear women, WE NEED YOU!
Are you a woman considering a career in technology? You’re not alone.
The tech industry needs you more than ever, and we’re here to help you get
Do you need to be a genius? Do you have to quit your job to study
programming? Is it ever too late? No, no, and no! Come and hear women
like you talk about the tech world, how they got into it, and why you
should join them."
Do you see the difference between the purpose to encourage more
contributions by manner of public shamings and achieving number of
discouraged contributors -- between the other method of attracting
more women by creating special pages, incentives, acknowledgements and
making it practical so that actual contributions by women could be
counted and become more visible?
That is my proposal to Guix. Copy to Ludovic. Make a project to
include more women in Guix project.
Do it positively, not negatively.
Get a number of contributions by women, and not a number of
Instead of inciting public shamings as campaigns, please make a
project named something like "Women Welcome To Code" Campaign.
I cannot see any blog article on Guix mentioning women or welcoming
It would be good to create a project to welcome women, even to give
some incentives for participations.
Remote internship is possibility to attract women around the world
that are looking for such opportunities, Guix can then issue them
certificates of internship that furthers their carrier.
GNU Guix project needs more articles welcoming attitude and articles
and efficient, practical and applicable methods to attract more women.
- GNU Kind Communication Guidelines versus "social contract" or Codes of Conduct, Jean Louis, 2019/11/06
- Re: GNU Kind Communication Guidelines versus "social contract" or Codes of Conduct, Andreas Enge, 2019/11/06
- Re: GNU Kind Communication Guidelines versus social contract or Codes of Conduct,
Jean Louis <=
- Re: GNU Kind Communication Guidelines versus social contract or Codes of Conduct, Florian Weimer, 2019/11/06
- Re: GNU Kind Communication Guidelines versus social contract or Codes of Conduct, Alfred M. Szmidt, 2019/11/06
- Re: GNU Kind Communication Guidelines versus social contract or Codes of Conduct, Ruben Safir, 2019/11/06
- Re: GNU Kind Communication Guidelines versus social contract or Codes of Conduct, Ludovic Courtès, 2019/11/11
- Re: GNU Kind Communication Guidelines versus social contract or Codes of Conduct, Jean Louis, 2019/11/11
- Re: GNU Kind Communication Guidelines versus social contract or Codes of Conduct, Andreas, 2019/11/11
- Re: GNU Kind Communication Guidelines versus social contract or Codes of Conduct, Alfred M. Szmidt, 2019/11/13
- Re: GNU Kind Communication Guidelines versus "social contract" or Codes of Conduct, Federico Leva (Nemo), 2019/11/12