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Re: A summary of some open discussions


From: Jean Louis
Subject: Re: A summary of some open discussions
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 12:19:01 +0100
User-agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13)

* Andreas Enge <address@hidden> [2020-01-06 22:01]:
> Hello,
> 
> On Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 08:34:54PM +0100, Andy Wingo wrote:
> > On Mon 06 Jan 2020 15:05, Brandon Invergo <address@hidden> writes:
> > > Ludovic Courtès writes:
> > >> As a side note: I think authority is not something one should take for
> > >> granted.  We’re a group of volunteers, and each one of us has just as
> > >> much authority as the others consent to give them.
> > >
> > > No.  When you join an organization, you implicitly or explicitly agree
> > > to work within the existing structure of that organization.
> > 
> > More seriously, I think that when you join an organization, you
> > implicitly or explicitly agree to work for the *goals* of that
> > organization.
> 
> this is a good argument with which I agree.
> 
> An additional problem of GNU is that the organisation itself is
> implicit.

I do not see practical problem. I see your invented problems. And I do
believe that when you are joining GNU or contributing some software,
you cannot easily adapt to its already established policies. It is so
in almost every organization, you would need to learn new policies and
adapt, or either leave.

> On Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 02:05:54PM +0000, Brandon Invergo wrote:
> > However, to say that as a volunteer one can
> > simply start doing things differently, against the existing structure,
> > because one's opinion changes amounts to subversion.
> 
> Actually, what do you do when you find out that the existing structure
> is detrimental to the goals pursued by the organisation you joined?

That is generalization. GNU project is successful. RMS is successful
person. Free software philosophy is spread by RMS and his
efforts. Free software operating systems exist in this world by large
number due to RMS's work.

Please do not generalize. If you have specific problem to point out,
please do so. But do not generalize, you are spreading doubts, fears
and uncertaintes.

> Our current structure has driven people away, and I suspect it prevents
> others from joining, in a context where volunteer time is the
> premium asset.

Please do not generalize by telling "people away" -- be specific.

For Guix system, there are specific few people that can be found on
Guix IRC chat log, who said they will not contribute to Guix due to
public shamings that started by Ludovic Courtès. So specifically for
Guix, one can find that people have given up contributions due to
their shameful behavior towards GNU project and its founder
Dr. Richard Stallman.

So which specific people "have been driven away" and by "which current
structure" exactly and specifically?

Rumor mongering is one thing, being specific requires guts.

> Personally, I even think that our autocratic structure subverts our goals,
> since I perceive a philosophical clash: How can we strive for empowering users
> of our software and not at the same time empower the volunteers who do the
> work so that they organise themselves, but instead expect them to follow
> a (let us assume, benevolent) dictator for life?

Volunteers are empowered and can contribute to GNU project, as you
know, so please stop spreading fears, uncertainties and
doubts. Everybody is welcome to contribute to GNU project.

GNU project is not autocratic, that is word that cannot be used
properly in the context of the GNU project. RMS is certainly not
autocratic by his nature and character. RMS is founder of the GNU
project and has final say. But he is not behaving in autocratic
manner. Please stop with disrespect.

See RMS's statement on www.stallman.org "I continue to be the Chief
GNUisance of the GNU Project.  I do not intend to stop any time soon."
-- thus whatever you wish to propose, propose to RMS, and if it is
rejected, stop with the disrespect.

Can you find some other activity that will benefit you or others?

Jean



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