Re: In regards to defining GNUstep and Window Maker

[Nicola Pero]

> > All our intention is is to clear up misinformation. There have been 
> > several high-profile cases where people have made uninformed statements 
> > about "GNUstep" being used when in fact all it was was WindowMaker. This 
> > is bad for both of us, and it's in our mutual best interest to clear up 
> > the confusion.

Ehm, well actually I don't agree. :-)

Btw I thought WindowMaker was still the GNUstep official window manager

Even if that is no longer so, I think the "confusion" is very helpful to
both projects and I'm very proud WindowMaker is associated with GNUstep,
and vice versa, in the mind of many people.  That is very positive
marketing for both of us! :-)

<... looking at the web and learning what all this is about ...>

I also don't really agree that much with the article titled "GNUstep is
Not WindowMaker. WindowMaker is not GNUstep." on the front page of
www.gnustep.org.

And the fact is that, no matter what my personal opinion is, traditionally
we've been extremely careful in choosing and balancing our words when we
give the "official" description of what GNUstep is and how it relates to
other projects.

The page "GNUstep is Not WindowMaker.  WindowMaker is not GNUstep." sounds
more like a flame war post rather than a careful balanced description of
the relationship between WindowMaker and GNUstep.  As such, it should not
be a prominent article on the main GNUstep official web site.  Text should
be digested and polished and reviewed and discussed carefully before it
gets such a prominent "official" position.

As a GNUstep developer I feel embarassed by the tone/style of the article.

Btw I am probably a bit out of touch with the relationship between the two
projects, but from this email trail we're definitely going down the wrong
route -- eg, I would personally be very upset if WindowMaker was to change
their logo to distance themselves from GNUstep.  Let's say no to that.  
It's very nice to see our common roots represented in similar logos.  
We've got plenty of things to share in our common desire for a free
software system inspired by *Step.

What about if we stop discussing how we make war to each other and instead
we start talking about how we can take advantage of our common roots to
support each other, how we integrate things better, how we do marketing
together to increase our projects appeal ?

Let's remove the "GNUstep is Not WindowMaker. WindowMaker is not GNUstep."  
page and replace it with something like a nice and warm "GNUstep
recommends WindowMaker" page/banner/catchline :-)


> That is our intention as well.  But we would not have gone about it in the 
> manner that you've chosen.  Nobody from the GNUstep project contacted us 
> to ask that the information be updated.  I'm sure you'll feel that it's 
> not your responsibility to do so.  It's not our responsibility to promote 
> GNUstep, but we do it out of common courtesy and respect for the work the 
> GNUstep developers have put into the project.  We don't think it's too 
> much to ask that the same courtesy be extended to us.
>
> We have had our own share of misinformed questions regarding GNUstep, and 
> we haven't gone to the extreme of putting up a dedicated page that is 
> worded not so nicely.  Had we done so, I'm sure we would have been 
> contacted making the same request that we are now.

Well I apologize for the page and I hope we forget this episode and we can
cooperate in the best spirit in the future.

I'm sure that page was a mistake, it sounds like a horror PR story you
read on marketing books (that is, a 'PR anti-pattern') :-)

Hopefully we'll have it corrected soon and our webmasters@ will read a few
books on marketing and will generate great positive PRs about GNUstep and
WindowMaker in the future

Thanks, sorry if I'll keep out of further flames on this matter, rest
assured my opinion (for what it counts) is that WindowMaker is fantastic
software, it's strongly related to GNUstep and I support the two projects
being presented as strongly linked, or if that's not possible, at least
recommending / respecting each other, having excellent positive feedback
to WindowMaker on our site, working on good integration, etc etc.

Of course GNUstep can work with other window managers or systems and
WindowMaker can work with other frameworks but GNUstep + WindowMaker
remains the dream team to have a free *step clone on the desktop and it
should be presented as such.  At least we (GNUstep) should present it as
such.

Thanks