Re: Site, apps and CMS (Was: Re: StepTalk blog)

[Stefan Urbanek]

On Thu, 2005-08-11 at 18:57 +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
> Stefan Urbanek <address@hidden> wrote:
> > p.s.: Can we convert GNUstep site to some CMS instead of having it on CVS?
> 
> For a postscript, that's got a lot of implications. Unsurprisingly,
> it's started a lot of debate. One specific question:
> 
> What are we trying to improve here?
> 
> I suspect that the CMS (currently just CVS) is not the limitation,
> but the number of volunteers. If you have suggestions to get more
> volunteers, I'll act on them as quickly as I can as far as I can.
> 

Suggestion to get more voulenteers? Switch to a site editing method with
no obstacles. You need contents maintainers, not web designers.
Therefore you need someone who can press 'edit' button and edit plain
text, not someone who has to know CVS. And yes, CVS is very great barier
for editors.

> >From another message from Stefan:
> > [...] they have a kind of bridge between mailman and the forum [2], so every
> > post to the ubuntu lists gets published at the forum as a standard message.
> > Does GNUstep has any resources (machine, time,...) to set up such forum?
> 
> Isn't that what gmane, google groups and others do already? We've
> been around for a while, so are on these services, while youngsters
> like ubuntu have to do it for themselves.

No, it isn't. It is decetralised and distant to GNUstep. And also, it is
not about doing something for ourselves where there already is something
with similar funcitonality. It is about bringing all stuf together and
make it more accessible. It is not so obvious that one can search google
groups for gnustep discussions.

> 
> >From another message:
> > using phpbb (http://www.phpbb.com/) then the requirements would be:
> > 
> > Installation of phpBB2 requires the following:
> 
> * Someone to track the security updates!! phpBB2 is very common and
> very quickly exploited automatically when a bug is found. Who will
> commit to doing this and for how long?
> 

Do you have a suggestion for another forum application? It is very easy
to say: "this is not good".

> > 2. CMS
> 
> Of those mentioned, I don't recall hearing of SPIP, WebsiteBaker
> or typo3 being used in any sites I know well. I know of successes
> with OpenCMS and xoops, but wasn't directly involved. Web
> development is my day job (which eats my gnustep web time).
> 

I have nothing agains other CMSs, they were just apps that I know and
seen being used. Spip is very spread in france and canada.

<snip>

> Thom Cherryhomes <address@hidden> wrote:
> > it still does not change the fact that the current main GNUstep site
> > is terrible [...]
> 
> Thank you for praising the volunteers. Why haven't you fixed it yet?
> 

No comment on that. Think about it little bit...

> > it just seems nobody is expending any real effort to push GNUstep
> > beyond its current community, and that is truly sad.
> 
> All our efforts is fake, or what? If you want to show us what
> "real effort" is, I suggest you try leading the gnustep-marketing
> list. Seriously. Help if you can, or at least give good pointers
> instead of vague broad brush condemnation.
> 

I am against war, so I am not going to comment this either. I will say
only that I have the same impression: the community is closed. Whether
it is good or bad depends on your point of view. I think it is not very
good.

Idea can be attractor only for wise. There are not so many we would
consider wise at this time, but there are many that would learn. What we
can do is to observe what successful players are doing for attracting
people and copy them. We have to offer what others want, not what we
want them to want. Once we have them, then we can teach them 'the idea'
behind GNUstep ... if they would not get it first...

Regards,

Stefan Urbanek
-- 
http://stefan.agentfarms.net

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then
you win.
- Mahatma Gandhi