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Re: Guile and MS-Windows on Major Govt. Project...

From: Chris Bitmead
Subject: Re: Guile and MS-Windows on Major Govt. Project...
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 00:10:57 +1000
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020530

I think you'll find the performance of modern Java's, such as 1.3 or 1.4 very acceptable. When using Jscheme to do Swing GUI's you don't notice any performance difference because Jscheme is just assembling Swing components and Java is doing most of the work.

I'm not worried about the gui, I'm worried about the actions of the gui. The app I want to do may have to do some manipulating and transformations of largish files.

call/cc, blurry picture on full tail calls etc). Kawa's type system makes it rather inconvenient to use Java libraries like Swing (strings in kawa are not strings in java etc). Neither have built in a nice CLOS-ish object system which makes life worth living.

Let me put it this way: Is Full-Scheme-Language+CLOS+portable convenient gui on Windows+Linux too much to ask?

SISC is a full scheme.

Ok, I didn't know about SISC. I'm impressed that it supports full r5rs. I'm disappointed that the penalty of using Java and supporting tail calls is that the benchmarks take 2.5 times as long to run as kawa. (and jscheme is twice as slow again). And the option to compile Kawa to native and get about 10x the performance is hard to resist keeping as an option in reserve, as I presume you can do with Hobbit for guile. It's hard to throw away that option up front without knowing how much you will need that performance down the track.

It shouldn't be hard to add a Scheme Swing library like Jscheme's JLIB.

Well Jscheme supports some fancy syntax for interfacing with Java so I would have thought JLIB would be a bit of a job to port.

Jscheme has chosen to stay close to Java, so integrating Scheme and Java is fairly painless. It does handle tail recursion.

I have got a suspician it only handles "obvious" tail calls, but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

While it does not have a CLOS object system, it has multimethods and you can define Java classes in Scheme.

To do a CLOS in a Scheme built on top of Java you need to decide how the CLOS and Java objects interact. For example, in Jython, Jython classes look to Java like java classes. However, there semantics are slightly different which can get confusing. I'll have to think about how one might do CLOS in java some more.

Well, just having CLOS would probably be ok with me, even if that aspect doesn't interact particularly with Java objects.

Ken Anderson wrote:

At 10:41 AM 7/2/2002, Chris Bitmead wrote:

Hmm, just checked out PLT-Scheme. The Gui is so limited it doesn't even have something like a grid or table widget. And for this app it's very visual I need a pretty good set of widgets, including some kind of grid. And the OO system looks more awful to me the longer I look at it, but I guess I could live with it if the gui was ok.

Is there any scheme out there with some decent cross-platform gui support, and works on at least Windows and Unix, preferably Mac too? Am I asking so much?

Not at all. There are several Schemes implemented in Java that should let you do portable gui development easily. Here are 3:

I use Jscheme.

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