Re: [Gzz] The FenPDF interface

[Benja Fallenstein]

Matti Katila wrote:
> > Actions we can use
> > ==================
> > - Left click
> > - Left drag
> > - Right/middle click/drag
> > - Modifier key + click/drag
> > - Shortcut key
>
> Middle drag isn't very usable because of wheeler and it's common in 
> mouses.

Hm, I don't find it hard to use with a wheel view...

> > Everything except left click and left drag is unusual to many people.
>
> Are you saing this as a mac user or..?-) 

As a person observing others using the computer.

> If you have used pp for 15 minutes you can not live without mouse3(right) 
> dragging it just is so easy to change zoom factor with it.

It's very nice, but that doesn't change the point: That people aren't 
used to it, and will not try it when they start using FenPDF.

> > The hardest decision
> > ====================
> > Now, everything that can be done with dragging the paper can be done 
> > with clicking on points. Not as conveniently, yes; but if we improve the 
> > timing, I think it won't be horrible. Therefore, I think left drag 
> > should be selection, and drag-to-move-paper should be another 
> > button/combination.
>
> No, this is the way as xupdf -demo used to do it and it's horrible to *use*.

The xupdf demo had a way to pan (drag-to-move) with the mouse? I've 
never seen that.

> > Proposed interface
> > ==================
> >
> > First of all, I think while reading you want to be able to keep track of 
> > different parts of different articles. This could be done with having 
> > multiple cursors (foci) in different parts of the screen.
>
> Argh! Too much noise *with buoys*. Test pp, there's "shotrcut" papers == 
> too much noise. KISS

I don't understand what you're saying. What's shortcut papers, and why 
are they too much noise?

> > So, I propose that at every time, you have your main focus, "what you're 
> > reading right now," and a PP canvas for
> > - bookmarks
>
> How many people use bookmarks in browsers?

Not many, I think. Yet, I think the situation is quite different when 
you can organize things you're viewing onto a canvas, in order to get 
back to them quickly.

> How they get back to node before jump to bookmark?

I don't know; maybe back button, if it's really necessary.

> > - notes
> > - arranging transclusions into Memex-like trails etc
>
> - photos/pictures

Hm, in FenPDF?

> - drawings with vobs etc.

Maybe useful for scribbling while reading articles.

> > I propose that the PP canvas is a resizable region at the bottom of the 
> > screen,
>
> So you are propousing to eat my screen space?

I think it will be useful for you. If it isn't, you can make it size zero.

> yes, windows has panel at 
> the bottom. I don't need it. Who do need it?

Me. It's the way I switch between windows. Ok, so now I use ion instead 
of kwin, and it has the window titles at the top instead of the bottom-- 
not much of a conceptual difference. In any case, I find it *saves* my 
screen space by not requiring that I "arrange" windows (yuck).

> The panel is invented because 
> of the noise on screen but we don't need n+1 applications because we have 
> canvases.

???

> We are making a new way to use a computer and that isn't hype.

Well, IMHO we need a way to keep track of multiple articles / positions 
in the hyperstructure while browsing-- and the main focus + PP canvas 
interface could be *really* good at that, I think. Making bookmarks from 
the structure, notetaking while reading, and Memex-like trails, all 
rolled into one (i.e., it's never clear what of the three you're doing 
at any given moment)-- that's quite a new and useful way to use the 
computer, to me.

If you think that I want it for hype because Windows has a panel, you 
must've misunderstood something ;-)

> > ....
> > Selections would be a rectangular shaded region of the article. You 
> > couldn't select regions on a PP canvas.
>
> Can you draw all this?-) I don't follow.. and still it sounds like too 
> much noise on screen.

I have a drawing here... I'll ask Tuomas to scan it, tomorrow.

> > Proposed bindings
> > =================
> >
> > - Left click on point of article or PP canvas: focus it
> > - Left click on PP canvas buoy:
>
> Now I missing something. There are no such thing as a "pp canvas buoy" 
> there should be only buoys.

A buoy that shows a piece of a PP canvas, as opposed to a buoy that 
shows a piece of a scrollblock. (Clearer?)

> Ok, stopped replying now. I propouse that you should use pp from gzz.
> Play half an hour with it, construct your own graph with it, make big and 
> small papers(content), use shortcuts, make associations and so. 

I can't make it run:

> address@hidden:~/gzz$ make runpplocal
> Tempfile is /tmp/file0C4xeh
> LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib:gfx java -Xms64M -Xmx128M  -Dpython.path=depends/jythonlib.jar:depends/pythonlib.jar:depends/yaml.jar:depends/docutils.jar -Dpython.verbose=message -Duser.editor=gnuclient org.python.util.jython gzz/modules/pp/localpp.py  
> PP Screen added to UpdateManager
> java.lang.Error: Wrong # coordsys: 1 for address@hidden
>         at gzz.vob.Vob.putGL(Vob.java:104)
>         at gzz.gfx.gl.GLVobMap.put(GLVobMap.java:90)
>         at gzz.modules.pp.Win.generate(Win.java:165)
>         at gzz.client.Screen.generateEndState(Screen.java:121)
>         at 
> gzz.client.AbstractUpdateManager.callGenerateEnd(AbstractUpdateManager.java:145)
>         at gzz.client.AbstractUpdateManager.run(AbstractUpdateManager.java:475)
>         at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:536)

- Benja