Re: Software/HD ecology

[Miles Bader]

David Masterson <dmaster@synopsys.com> writes:
> > You could try "make -n uninstall > /tmp/foo" right after "make
> > install".  Maybe then /tmp/foo contains the necessary info.
> 
> Exactly.  My contention is that /tmp/foo should be installed right
> along with everything else.

... and also wrote in a different message:
> 2. To allow for source removal, "make install" should install an
>    uninstaller (like this: "make -n uninstall > uninstaller; install
>    uninstaller").

Those seem like pretty reasonable ideas; in more concrete form, perhaps
they could be added to the GNU programming standards or something.

E.g.:

  * What would the `/tmp/foo' file be called really?
    Something like `/usr/share/foo/files'?

  * What would the uninstaller program be called?
    [Presumably uninstall-PACKAGE]

-Miles
-- 
[|nurgle|]  ddt- demonic? so quake will have an evil kinda setting? one that 
            will  make every christian in the world foamm at the mouth? 
[iddt]      nurg, that's the goal 
>From help-gnu-emacs-bounces@gnu.org  Thu Dec 19 09:30:21 2002
Path: 
shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!lucy.is.informatik.uni-duisburg.DE!not-for-mail
From: kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai =?iso-8859-1?q?Gro=DFjohann?=)
Newsgroups: comp.emacs,gnu.emacs.help
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 15:25:54 +0100
Organization: University of Dortmund, Germany
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <84k7i63x1p.fsf@lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de>
References: <3dfe3ea4.1245206@news.cis.dfn.de>
        <84d6o1ove6.fsf@lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de>
        <1my96ndvtq.fsf@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>
        <84n0n3cbvn.fsf@lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de>
        <1mr8cfq9uv.fsf@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>
        <84ptry4g6v.fsf@lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de>
        <1m8yymqkx7.fsf@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lucy.is.informatik.uni-duisburg.de (134.91.35.216)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1040307953 2437505 134.91.35.216 (16 [73968])
User-Agent: Gnus/5.090008 (Oort Gnus v0.08) Emacs/21.2.93
 (i686-pc-linux-gnu)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:hP/9v2XMRYONelg7Pt5jz5zlCyM=
Xref: shelby.stanford.edu comp.emacs:76550 gnu.emacs.help:108296
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: M-TAB already used by KDE
X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:help-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs>,
        <mailto:help-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/help-gnu-emacs>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs>,
        <mailto:help-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 14:30:21 -0000

Fredrik Staxeng <fstx+u@update.uu.se> writes:

> kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai Großjohann) writes:
>
>>> If the default of x-meta-keysym is '(meta alt), then I am happy.
>>
>>Now that you bring it up, it would be a good idea to allow lists
>>instead of just symbols.  But that isn't implemented yet.
>
> What problem was this intended to solve then?

KDE really really wants to see Alt_L and Alt_R keysyms for meta-like
functionality.  So using (setq x-meta-keysym 'alt), I can use them for
meta-like functionality in Emacs, too.

> Key names are just labels. What matters is the mapping from key
> position to behaviour. The Emacs command set is designed with 
> the expectation that there is a shift-like modifier key that
> is given the name Meta. In reality, very few keyboards provide
> a key labeled Meta, but they provide a convenient substitute.
> It's labeled Alt on PC keyboards, and it is labeled <> on Sun
> keyboards. 

Yes.

> Sun users know that their Alt key is not the same as the PC Alt key,
> but PC users generally do not know the details of Sun keyboards.
> They are used to that Alt is synonymous with Meta. Introducing a
> different concept with the same name into Emacs is confusing.
>
> On the other hand, Super and Hyper are unambigously distinct from
> Meta/Alt. That is, instead of putting mappings on Alt, which 
> assumes a Sun keyboard, put them on Super.

And what do people do who had Super bindings before?

You are suggestion to remove modifiers.  This is not a good idea.
People with foot pedals will hate you!

> Your solution strikes me as a bit overengineered. I don't see the 
> need for full generality here, especially since there are two
> (or three) other general layers (xkb, xmodmap and Emacs keymaps).
> The solution above is simpler to understand and use for the 
> common practical cases I can imagine.
>
> If you really want full generality, the most powerful solution
> would be a x-key-translate-hook.

Yes.  Thanks for the suggestion.  I'll have to think about that
"overengineered" part.  Hmmm...

-- 
~/.signature is: umop ap!sdn    (Frank Nobis)
>From help-gnu-emacs-bounces@gnu.org  Thu Dec 19 09:45:14 2002
Sender: fstx@Tempo.Update.UU.SE
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.apps,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.text.tex,gnu.emacs.help
References: <041220020952400758%ajanta@no.spam>
        <slrnav1ed1.ho.smullerin@esb.bbn.com> <m2hedrm4oc.fsf@owlbear.local>
        <84bs3xsyi8.fsf@lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de> 
<071220021155280606%ajanta@no.spam>
        <5ld6obj8il.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu> <091220021652087216%ajanta@no.spam>
        <101220021125583826%ajanta@no.spam> <vf3cp5ix2u.fsf@rpc71.cs.man.ac.uk>
        <vf3cp4k92x.fsf@rpc71.cs.man.ac.uk> <111220021101520860%ajanta@no.spam>
        <vfadjcif3n.fsf@rpc71.cs.man.ac.uk> <111220021253524057%ajanta@no.spam>
        <5l65u0i8zj.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu> <111220022053507599%ajanta@no.spam>
        <84k7ifo3s2.fsf@lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de> 
<87u1hjdwta.fsf@hurd.crasseux.com>
        <121220021324043990%ajanta@no.spam>
        <m3el8iar9g.fsf@mika.informatik.uni-freiburg.de>
        <171220021132381961%ajanta@no.spam> <3DFFA457.1020103@rcn.com>
        <844r9b3exh.fsf@lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de> <un0n2yi04.fsf@synopsys.com>
        <87y96m3xhg.fsf@tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp>
From: Fredrik Staxeng <fstx+u@update.uu.se>
Date: 19 Dec 2002 15:44:13 +0100
Message-ID: <1mr8ceoypu.fsf@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>
Lines: 30
User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.update.uu.se
X-Trace: puffinus.its.uu.se 1040308098 news.update.uu.se (19 Dec 2002 15:28:18
        +0100)
Path: 
shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed1.bredband.com!bredband!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!algonet!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!puffinus.its.uu.se
Xref: shelby.stanford.edu comp.sys.mac.apps:349291
        comp.sys.mac.advocacy:918906 comp.text.tex:238568 gnu.emacs.help:108297
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Software/HD ecology
X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:help-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs>,
        <mailto:help-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/help-gnu-emacs>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs>,
        <mailto:help-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 14:45:14 -0000

Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> writes:

>Those seem like pretty reasonable ideas; in more concrete form, perhaps
>they could be added to the GNU programming standards or something.

I think that right thing is a gnu-install program. This would be
called from install targets in the makefiles. It would log the
files installed, and then you could do gnu-uninstall emacs.

It could make backups of any files overwritten, allow only files 
owned by this package to be overwritten, collect checksums so
that modified files can be identified, generate file lists for
binary distributions.

It should support files, directories and symlinks. It could support
postactions such as running makewhatis after a man page is installed.
If it setuid-safe one could make two users, gnubin and gnusource,
and use file protections to verify that the installation action behaves.

The configure scripts should already be looking for BSD install,
and use that for installing the all the files. The configure script
is generated by autoconf, which gives a single point for introducing
this with a minimum of effort for the maintainers of GNU packages.

I think that undo logic has to be derived automatically. Manually
writing things like that too error-prone, especially if they need 
ongoing maintenance.

-- 
Fredrik Stax\"ang | rot13: sfgk@hcqngr.hh.fr
>From dziulko@klaatu.canisius.edu Thu Dec 19 09:57:45 2002
Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13)
        id 18P27N-0007rx-00
        for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:57:45 -0500
Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13)
        id 18P27E-0007m3-00
        for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:57:37 -0500
Received: from [138.92.8.100] (helo=klaatu.canisius.edu)
        by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13)
        id 18P1oQ-0002ZA-00
        for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:38:13 -0500
Received: from localhost (dziulko@localhost)
        by klaatu.canisius.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gBJEbn106994
        for <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:37:49 -0500
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:37:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Kevin Dziulko <dziulko@klaatu.canisius.edu>
To: <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212190936090.6988-100000@klaatu.canisius.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: C Mode Comments
X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:help-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs>,
        <mailto:help-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/help-gnu-emacs>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs>,
        <mailto:help-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 14:57:48 -0000

Does anyone know if there is a command to mark a comment, or kill a
comment in c-mode?

Thanks much.