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Re: Lack of integration in Emacs - it was Re: How to rename files to num

From: Jean Louis
Subject: Re: Lack of integration in Emacs - it was Re: How to rename files to numbers in Eshell?
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2021 12:27:38 +0300
User-agent: Mutt/2.0.7+183 (3d24855) (2021-05-28)

* Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor 
<> [2021-10-03 11:17]:
> Jean Louis wrote:
> > Similarly, Emacs offers to write all kinds of documents, not
> > as visual maybe, but one can do so much. It is integrated
> > with `make' system, with Markdown, with all kinds of
> > programming languages, compiling, building, LaTex
> > conversions, all kinds of modes, Dired and remote Tramp
> > connections, in general Emacs is integrated very well.
> But also Gnus, ERC, you name it. The level of integration and
> the uniform configuration/extension method (Elisp) is why
> I started to use it.

Yes. As compared to other software Emacs offers opportunity to
integrate many features in one place. It helps user operate computer
easier. Though it goes through peculiar Emacs way as compared to other

> Also it allows you to be a programmer every day without having
> to have a huge project, which is nice.

I do programming out of necessity or specific needs. I would like not
to program and spend time eating fruits with girl(s) on the Indian
ocean in Mombasa. Instead I have to fiddle with Org mode and macros,
Emacs Lisp, you name it. I don't want it, but I have to. Would there
be easier way I would go for it. Until then Emacs is helping me speed
up with my needs.

I wish it would be so well integrated that with simple decisions
things get done. Modern smart TVs are programmed that way, you choose
a channel and you watch movie. Or put USB flash stick and play video
from it. Or watch pictures. Smart phones are prepared that
way. Desktop is not well integrated for end users no matter what
operating system is there. Emacs is a helper software to operating
system, helping users and opening opportunities for users to integrate
it more.

> Huge projects are also nice but more difficult and even if you
> succeed how often will you, or anyone else, use them?

Personal every day used software is about 1 megabyte in size. Emacs
packages are more than that, that is for me large enough. 

> > Dired is great. Though there is no automatic integration
> > with the system. Imagine directories in Dired, and you have
> > 5 other different file managers.
> You mean integrate other pieces of software with Emacs?
> I think "the Emacs school of integration" is rather to
> identify good ideas and implement them _in_ Emacs, not between
> Emacs and that other piece of software ...

That is your idea, that is why Emacs and other desktop software that
does not talk to each other is old fashioned.

> > Writing letters is related to people, but where is central
> > people management? It does not exist.
> It does, use 'alias' in ~/.mailrc ...


Please tell to smart phone user to put aliases in ~/.mailrc and no
phones will ever be sold. Forget it.

It's very simple, desktop of today is failure to modern mobile

> > Right. Gnus. We are all disparate. Integration nowhere.
> Gnus is part of Emacs so that is 100% integrated if you will.

Integrated with Emacs?

Though that is not what integration means for me.

When you open up Android application like K9, you will get questions,
configure it, and it will work. It works for average no-clue users.

When I type `M-x gnus' I will get what? Cow.

While this may be fun to programmers, there is no way this could ever
pass for modern users. And that remark is only to what you said "it is
integrated with Emacs", but that is not type of integration I mean.

Let us say you are user, you have your user account, right? Then once
you enter into system you should be asked to complete your user
account settings, and you would know where those settings are to
update it later. Once updated, ANY email client would read your
emails without asking you over and over again. It is computer, it is
supposed to be artificial intelligence, machine that does it for you. 

Let us say you wish to send files to somebody by email, if you have
configured anything, it should simply work. That is how it works on
Android/Replicant/LineageOS. It does not work and is failure of 21st
century on desktop.

No cows, my friend.

> If you intent to use Emacs as an interface to non-Emacs
> software that level of integration seems indeed like a lot of
> work I don't envy you ...

I would like that Emacs run the computer as that way things would
easier get integrated, but it doesn't. And it speaks little to other
software on the same system. But Emacs should know more about it.

Things like:

- when any phone is nearby computer or other devices, both the phone
  and computer, should pair and find out about each other, and easy
  exchange images, videos, contacts, logs. View anything on computer
  from phone and vice versa. Technically this all is possible, it was
  never integrated due to competition and whatever control of

- if phone has speech recognition, then Emacs, desktop, should have it
  too, this should include automatic translations on computer,
  phrases, speech, more audio visual technology;

- Emacs being built on top of Lisp should offer more of the AI or
  artificial intelligence then just a shrink for suicidal people, and
  remember what user was doing over the week and upon new start it
  should talk with user as it already got a lot of information about
  files to be opened, and times of user's habits. It should know for
  example that it is time for work, and that maybe user has to contact
  Mary again, and that work is now probably over, and that user did
  not work longer on his poem file, it shall remind about backups or
  updated contacts that has to be pushed into phones, or that there is
  dinner, etc. 


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