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Re: Someone start maintaining luddites.el

From: Po Lu
Subject: Re: Someone start maintaining luddites.el
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2021 17:19:49 +0800
User-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.60 (gnu/linux)

Yuan Fu <> writes:

> Even if you don’t read NEWS, you know what the mode does: it keeps
> Emacs behave the same as it currently is. So you shouldn’t need to
> remember or read or understand anything. And again, if you don’t like
> it, you don’t have to use it. So I don’t think it adds any burden to
> you.

No, I'll have to read the antinews in order to come to an intelligent
decision as to whether or not it should be enabled.

> I think the effectiveness of this mode, in terms of support of adding
> changes, would be equivalent to “you can add a line of code to .emacs
> to revert it”. Ie, not much different from the status quo. It’s just
> AFTER the change is made, one’s life is easier if he decides that he
> don’t want any of that.

That's extra trouble for everyone, and you still haven't demonstrated
why someone won't say:

  Let's set indent-tabs-mode to nil by default, people can just revert
  it by turning on luddites-mode.

Or something to that effect.

> If a variable is removed, we can’t help it. But if it is removed,
> there must be very good reason to do so and it must has been obsoleted
> for many years, ie, it’s due time. If it is just obsolete, resetting
> it shouldn’t hurt anything.

But one will have to

>> Then let's see which causes the smallest mob of people who complain.

> I don’t quite understand that. What are you referring to as “which”?

"Which one of the options that people are complaining about"

> They are equivalent, but a switch is more convenient. The whole point
> (I think) is that it’s equivalent to adding code to init.el, but more
> convenient: you don’t need to figure out what code to add, you don’t
> need to maintain the code, you don’t need to remember what that code
> does and why it is added, etc.

As I said, you will have to understand _all_ of what changed in order to
make an intelligent decision to turn it on or off, whereas without such
a feature, people can just individually revert the changes that cause
them inconvenience.

> Do you agree with my claim that adding this feature will not make
> Emacs change default values when they are not due?

I still don't, because you didn't answer my concerns there.

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