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Re: guix-edit shows "Autodoc not available..." w/ 2 REPLs

From: myglc2
Subject: Re: guix-edit shows "Autodoc not available..." w/ 2 REPLs
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 11:07:40 -0400
User-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux)

Alex Kost <address@hidden> writes:

> myglc2 (2016-07-14 03:12 +0300) wrote:
>> Alex Kost <address@hidden> writes:
>>> myglc2 (2016-07-12 17:22 +0300) wrote:
> [...]
>>>> Would it make sense to add this info to the doc?
>>> Sorry, what info do you mean?
>> I mean add an explanation along the lines of what your wrote above to
>> the documentation.  Maybe in a background or how it works section.
> OK, maybe someday :-)

Would it be helpful if I submit a patch plagiarizing your explanation?

> [...]
>>>> If so, would it be a helpful enhancement if guix-emacs started the 3rd
>>>> REPL automatically?
>>> No!  This relates to a usual editing of .scm files.  When you open .scm
>>> file, the Geiser REPL is not started automatically, and it shouldn't!  I
>>> think this would be a malicious behavior.
>> I don't understand why this would be malicious. Could you explain?
> When I open ".py" file, the Python REPL is not started automatically,

True, but doesn't a savvy python hacker typically set up their emacs
configuration to start python REPLs automatically? I know this is what I
did when I needed to do a bit of python hacking recently.

> when I open ".scm" file, the Geiser REPL should not be started
> automatically, etc.  This is normal!  If you want to have such kind of
> interactive programming, you need to start the REPL yourself.

I don't care what is "normal." I just want guix to start the REPL.  Is
there any reason other than this not being "normal"?

>>> It's up to a user to decide how (s)he wants to edit his/her files (in
>>> this case: with or without a help of Geiser).

Yes, if you view the file as only a Guile file and emacs as a primitive
editor, this may be so. But this is a guix recipe and you are in guix
mode. So I think guix could do more to help the user.

>> Agreed. But I would prefer for Guix by default to start the REPL and
>> provide a way for me to disable this behavior if I like ;-)
> No!  You want to break a normal behavior.  REPLs are not started
> automatically when you open a file for editing.
>> In general, I think it would be better for commands like 'C-c . l' to
>> work instead of: beeping and giving the message "or: Geiser REPL not
>> found". Such messages tend to give the first impression that something
>> is not working properly :-(
> Then running "C-x C-e" (geiser-eval-last-sexp) in .scm buffer should
> give you the same impression, as it gives the same error if REPL is not
> running.
> This is normal, and I mean not only for Guix or for Geiser, but for
> these kinds of interactive programming (using REPLs) in Emacs.

So 'C-x C-e' in my emacs init file works instead of requiring that I
open an elisp REPL. Is this normal or abnormal?

ess-mode (ESS for R provides key bindings to
evaluate R objects and the first you use one, ESS finds R and opens a
REPL. Is the normal or abnormal?

IMO it is strange that when I do 'C-c . l' (a guix key binding) guix
does not help me by opening a REPL if I need one.  This makes me think:
Is guix being stingy?  It guix trying to make me crazy?

> BTW I think this Geiser error is quite informative as it tells you what
> to do.
>> In general, if there are commands that don't work in a vanilla install,
>> the doc should indicate that they don't work without additional
>> setup/action, what that setup/action is, and what a user sees if that
>> setup/action has not been done.
> The commands work in vanilla install!  All you need is "M-x run-geiser"
> as the Geiser error tells.

Yes, and if I am a Geiser user this would seem normal. But I am a guix
user. I don't know from Geiser. Must I be plunged immediately into
geiser land? 

> But the documentation can always be improved of course.
> I think you are just not used to editing files using REPLs.

Well, I choose emacs modes that manage the "care and feeding" of REPLs
for me ;-) This is what users expect a good IDE to do. So I think this
is what 'guix edit <package>' should do ;-)

> Did you ever use Geiser or SLIME or other REPLs in Emacs before?

Yes and No. ESS for the past 5 years. Now in Geiser noobie mode.

So back to my question:

>> I don't understand why this would be malicious. Could you explain?

For me "malicious" means intending to do harm.

Is there a way that starting the REPL automatically can cause harm?

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