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Re: How to present Guix to a wider audience

From: wisdomlight
Subject: Re: How to present Guix to a wider audience
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 15:57:07 +0000

Having worked with Guix for number of days with some issues - some of my own 
I cannot see how i can say to my grandmother install guix.
for the simplest reason that i found it very hard to find the software that i 
needed plus the software i needed if it was not on the guix store/farm was very 
difficult to understand how to install with chnnels etc.
So I am not sure about recommending Guix to beginners.


Just like an experience in a dream
Everything I now enjoy
Will become a mere recollection
For what has past will not be seen again

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‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Sunday, 19 January 2020 11:03, Todor Kondić <address@hidden> wrote:

> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> On Wednesday, 15 January 2020 18:44, sirgazil address@hidden wrote:
> > Hi, Pierre
> > ---- On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 03:59:00 -0500 Pierre Neidhardt address@hidden 
> > wrote ----
> >
> > > Thank you all for the reviews and the kind feedback!
> >
> > >
> >
> > > It seems that the draft was met with success for now.
> >
> > > So what about including it on Guix' website, maybe with a big link to it
> >
> > > on the front page?
> >
> > I think the problem of "What is Guix?" should be solved before doing that 
> > (see
> > Personally, I think GNU Guix and its related operating system should be 
> > presented separately.
> > I think that GNU Guix is not a software that needs to be explained to the 
> > average computer user. GNU Guix, in my opinion, is a software for system 
> > administrators and developers in any field, and it would be good to present 
> > it clearly to them in general and provide explanations for particular 
> > fields whenever necessary (that's what the section "GNU Guix in your field" 
> > in the home page was designed for).
> > Even though one of GNU Guix goals is to empower users, average users are 
> > more into installing and removing application, and that's about it. 
> > Ideally, not using a command-line interface directly but a graphical user 
> > interface (e.g. an app store).
> > The operating system, on the other hand, should be presented to average 
> > users, and it should be called simply GNU. With this I mean that the GNU 
> > project should use GNU Guix to generate downloadable installers of what 
> > they call the GNU Operating System in their home page and distribute these 
> > installers through the website. The pages of should be 
> > updated accordingly and focus on presenting the GNU operating system to the 
> > general public. This would include adding high-level information of the 
> > features GNU Guix brings with it (reproducibility, bootstrappability, etc.) 
> > which would differentiate GNU from other systems. For advanced uses of the 
> > system that require deeper understanding of GNU Guix, advanced users should 
> > be directed to the GNU Guix subdomain. The rest of the current Free 
> > Software Distributions (Trisquel, PureOS, Parabola, etc.) would still be 
> > listed in as alternative distributions of the GNU Operating System. 
> > I know that RMS opposed to this idea a couple of years ago 
> > (,
> >  but I think this should be done.
> > I think this separation could make it easier to outreach to potential users 
> > of both artifacts, the OS and the "software environment manager". Calling 
> > the OS just GNU would also help differentiate this system from what the 
> > general public call "linux".
> I am sorry, but Guix should most definitively be presented to averagenix 
> based users (the admins of their own/family workstations). It's like: "Look, 
> now your grandmother, her cat and your dog can all install packages without 
> knowing your sudo password!". This feature alone is highly appealing to some 
> circles ;) .
> As for more "advanced" users, from the experience I had when talking about 
> Guix to the unconverted hackers, they struggle to accept why is it so much 
> better than the already hyped technologies that Just Work, such as 
> Chef/Puppet and other CI/CD for automating installations (), 
> Docker/Singularity on their own for building containers etc, especially 
> because it is based on an 'exotic' language as Scheme (exotic was the exact 
> word that has been used in a certain conversation with an experienced 
> professional developer). Disclaimer: I started using Guix because it was 
> based on Guile.
> Of course, different target groups should be, well, targeted with different 
> aspects of Guix -- those that may appeal to them. And, there is more to Guix 
> than just the pkg manager and the OS.
> Also, to be fair, Guix is the first complex program of the GNU system I am 
> aware of that started making waves in modern times, so on the presentation 
> front some things have already been done well.
> -   I am not an expert on this, so I am not sure whether Guix can fit in the 
> same workflow with the mentioned tools, or is in a parallel, or an orthogonal 
> universe.

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