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Re: [Help-nano] man-html translated in RO

From: Mario Blättermann
Subject: Re: [Help-nano] man-html translated in RO
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 22:05:26 +0200
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0

Hi Mihai,

Am 27.07.2014 13:43, schrieb Mihai Cristescu:
> Dear Mario,
> Thanks for your reply and very good material you sent me.
> Well, I was already finished translating the man files, after I have created a
> special filter based on regular expresions in memoq for importing groff 
> files. 
> I was almost finished with the reviewing for errors. I also have generated the
> html files with groff-utf8 command.
> But, now after receiving your scripts I made some tests.
> Actually they work like a charm. I wish I had them before, they create much
> better quality of pot file (po4a seems a good tool for the future).
> So, I have generated the ro.po file (combined from all text sources) and
> imported successfully in my CAT system, that means I can use the translation
> memory already done for this project.
> I have installed also Lokalize, Gtranslator and Poedit to have an idea and 
> they
> all are good but I will keep working in memoq because I have more experience 
> in
> it for complex tasks.
> Maybe for the future I'll start using Lokalize seems to have more features 
> inside.
> Question: After I finish translating the file, I send the material to this 
> list
> or to the for revision?
No, as Benno already wrote, you should contact the Romanian TP team for all
those issues.

> After I finish nano I can have a look also to help2man, but that is already
> generated pot file isn't it? ... no po4a involved.
No, help2man is very different: It generates man pages from the --help and
--version output of a command, in its own case also in native languages. I
mentioned it rather to get a kind of dictionary for future doc translations,
because the basic terms e.g. for headers etc. are included in the help2man
translation. Besides that, if you or someone else translates it into Romanian,
also a Romanian man page of help2man will be generated and released. And if some
other project maintainers decide to use help2man to create localized man pages
for their man pages, then also Romanian ones will be created, as long as the
--help and --version strings of that project are already translated. In the
nearest future I will convince the coreutils developers to do so -- especially
to get rid of the lots of external translations which are not shipped with the
project files itself, which are not in sync with the latest version, and which
can cause package conflicts.

> And is with this robot thing, for newr versions of the sources, how is that 
> working?
As said, contact the Romanian TP team first. In any case we work with pot
templates and the resulting po files, no need for translators to import anything
from source files or create own scripts.

I've officially written to the nano-devel mailing list to get the po4a toolchain
included and get created the new domain for the docs at TP.

Best Regards,

> 2014-07-26 23:44 GMT+03:00 Mario Blättermann <address@hidden
> <mailto:address@hidden>>:
>     Hi Mihai and Benno,
>     Am 25.07.2014 11:47, schrieb Benno Schulenberg:
>     >
>     > Hi Mihai,
>     >
>     > (For Mario: Mihai made Romanian translations of the nano docs, but
>     > of the HTML pages.  I'm wondering, how are you getting along with
>     > applying po4a to nano?)
>     >
>     Nice to know! New doc translators are always welcome.
>     > On Fri, Jul 25, 2014, at 11:25, Mihai Cristescu wrote (quoted in full):
>     >> Thanks for reply and sorry that the files can't be used in this form.
>     >> I know that the html page are generated from the man groff format, but 
> the
>     >> thing is I am using a CAT system (memoQ) which uses a translation 
> memory
>     >> and speed up the translation process significantly.
>     >
>     > Ah, very good.  Then, when the nano docs become available in
>     > POT files, this translation memory will save you a lot of work.
>     >
>     Off-line translation tools like Lokalize, Poedit or Gtranslator also have 
> a
>     translation memory. But as long as your special tools can handle normal 
> po files
>     (which I strongly assume) then it shouldn't be a problem to keep your 
> software
>     which your are familiar with.
>     >> The problem is that I can't import the groff files into memoQ.
>     >>
>     >> I have tried several approaches to convert the man groff files to: rtf 
> ,
>     >> ps, html formats which can be imported in memoQ, omegat , Trados SDL 
> etc,
>     >> but the issue is that there is no way to convert the translated files 
> to
>     >> man groff back. It seems that the only productive way to translate the 
> man
>     >> pages is to translate the files directly, but this is time consuming 
> since
>     >> you are not using a translation memory and term base.
>     >>
>     >> Regarding po4a :
>     >> I have installed yesterday this package on my arch system and followed 
> the
>     >> documentation. I succeeded converting the man pages to pot files, 
> import
>     >> them in memoQ, translated, but I was not able to convert back to man 
> page
>     >> (I had some strange errors on po4a-translate command) and I had to 
> give up.
>     >> Maybe I didn't quite understand how the po4a system works.
>     >
>     > Mario has some experience with po4a.  Maybe you can work together
>     > on solving the issues?
>     >
>     First, forget about the too difficult process described in the po4a docs, 
> with
>     the configuration file which allows to accept non-UTF8 files, add extended
>     translator acknowledgements and some other things which we don't really 
> need.
>     Just generate the pot file and localized docs with the attached scripts.
>     Put both scripts in the doc directory. With you 
> generate then
>     a merged pot template for all groff and texinfo sources.
>     Then use the pot file to create your po file as usual, put the file ro.po 
> (note
>     the file name, no other naming scheme will be accepted) into the doc 
> directory
>     and launch The translated groff files will be created 
> in
>     subdirectories, named according to the locale. The texinfo file gets a 
> suffix
>     (ro in your case, because there's currently no default way to install 
> localized
>     texinfo files on a system).
>     Note, per default po4a needs at least 80% of the po strings translated 
> for each
>     source file, otherwise the creation of that file will be skipped. For 
> testing
>     purposes you can screw down ${threshold}, currently it is set to zero. 
> But in my
>     mind, users won't benefit of translations lower than 80%, who wants to 
> read a
>     documentation with more holes than real info in his/her native 
> language...?
>     >> Nevertheless I shall contact Laurentiu to have a chat with him about 
> the
>     >> process.
>     >>
>     Would be nice in any case to complete (or at least almost complete) the UI
>     translation first. Besides that, I don't see any other examples of 
> Romanian man
>     pages, so it would be a good idea to translate the 49 messages from 
> help2man [1]
>     first and let the terms confirm by a Romanian reviewer. Would be a good 
> base for
>     future man page translations.
>     Moreover, there are already French plain text translations of the 
> manpages. I
>     will try to import those into po files, once someone with Autotools 
> skills has
>     setup the installation chain and the TP domain has been initialized.
>     [1]
>     Best Regards,
>     Mario
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