Re: [libreplanet-discuss] libreplanet-discuss Digest, Vol 68, Issue 15

[zerothis baud]

Accessibility is a criteria for all websites. Nothing about GNU restricts anyone's ability to create an accessibility site which cannot always be said of proprietary software and SaaSS. In fact, GNU is about software for "any purpose" where EULAs are about restricting purposes.

Think of it this way. The ADA doesn't write safety guidelines for automobile tires yet no one blames them when unsafe tires cause accidents.

On Oct 22, 2015 9:01 AM, <libreplanet-discuss-request@libreplanet.org> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: The GNU ethical repository criteria will      only harm free
      software. (Mike Gerwitz)
   2. Re: The GNU ethical repository criteria will only harm free
      software. (Alexander Berntsen)
   3. Re: The GNU ethical repository criteria will only harm free
      software. (Aaron Wolf)


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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 21:21:06 -0400
From: Mike Gerwitz <mtg@gnu.org>
To: Alexander Berntsen <alexander@plaimi.net>
Cc: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] The GNU ethical repository criteria
        will    only harm free software.
Message-ID: <877fmf4s1p.fsf@gnu.org">877fmf4s1p.fsf@gnu.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:09:21 +0200, Alexander Berntsen wrote:
> Some are just stupid, like not allowing the site to recommend SaaSS,
> when the sites themselves are in fact SaaSS.
>
> Some are trying to push unrelated FSF politics -- like "you need to
> say GNU/Linux when we think you might be talking about a GNU+Linux
> system, not just Linux". To make that one even worse, it's actually
> considered *more important* than *accessibility for the handicapped*
> and *anonymity*. Are you fucking serious, GNU?

The criteria are designed for hosting GNU projects.  We hope that the
criteria will also be useful to others, but that isn't the
purpose---they are designed to ensure that hosts for GNU projects
follow, at least to some degree, the GNU philosophy.

GNU and the FSF stand against SaaSS.  We insist on speaking of both GNU
and Linux when referring to the GNU operating system.  If you look at
our maintainers guide[0], you will find that these criteria are
consistent, where possible, with its requirements.  Many of the
repository criteria naturally are aligned with the GNU and the FSF's
position on _javascript_.[1]

> If I'm supposed to take the criteria seriously, they need to address
> the actual issue at hand. To give a parallel, if FSF is going to start
> pushing that awful non-free license they use for documentation and
> writings with the same strength as they work for free software
> (ironic, isn't it), I -- and likely several others -- will cease our
> donating quick as.
>
>
> As it stands now, the criteria are a good start, but worthless.

I encourage you to make constructive suggestions at
repo-criteria-discuss@gnu.org.


[0]: https://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/
[1]: https://fsf.org/campaigns/freejs

--
Mike Gerwitz
Free Software Hacker | GNU Maintainer
http://mikegerwitz.com
FSF Member #5804 | GPG Key ID: 0x8EE30EAB
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:56:26 +0200
From: Alexander Berntsen <alexander@plaimi.net>
To: Mike Gerwitz <mtg@gnu.org>
Cc: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] The GNU ethical repository criteria
        will only harm free software.
Message-ID: <5628A4BA.8090607@plaimi.net">5628A4BA.8090607@plaimi.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

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On 22/10/15 03:21, Mike Gerwitz wrote:
> GNU and the FSF stand against SaaSS.
Saying that you are against SaaSS doesn't make any sense when you
*develop SaaSS*, and are making ethical criteria for *using SaaSS*.

And anyway, being "against SaaSS" is an inherently backwards way of
going about it. SaaSS can liberate and empower users, which should be
the main goal of FSF. Not everyone is a rich American developer who
can order free high-quality hardware. If the FSF is against SaaSS they
are effectively against e.g. poor people, and I don't think they mean
to be.
- --
Alexander
alexander@plaimi.net
https://secure.plaimi.net/~alexander
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 07:27:24 -0700
From: Aaron Wolf <wolftune@riseup.net>
To: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] The GNU ethical repository criteria
        will only harm free software.
Message-ID: <5628F24C.1030205@riseup.net">5628F24C.1030205@riseup.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"



On 10/22/2015 01:56 AM, Alexander Berntsen wrote:
> On 22/10/15 03:21, Mike Gerwitz wrote:
>> GNU and the FSF stand against SaaSS.
> Saying that you are against SaaSS doesn't make any sense when you
> *develop SaaSS*, and are making ethical criteria for *using SaaSS*.
>
> And anyway, being "against SaaSS" is an inherently backwards way of
> going about it. SaaSS can liberate and empower users, which should be
> the main goal of FSF. Not everyone is a rich American developer who
> can order free high-quality hardware. If the FSF is against SaaSS they
> are effectively against e.g. poor people, and I don't think they mean
> to be.
>

Alex, that argument is simply unreasonable. That's comparable to
Facebook saying "people who oppose our Internet.org closed, non-neutral,
censored system are against poor people" or Microsoft saying "people who
oppose our no-charge licensing of Windows and Microsoft Office to these
schools are against poor people" or even "people who oppose sourcing
Pizza Hut for subsidized school lunches are against poor people".

The FSF defines SaaSS specifically as services that are run over a
network specifically where they could be run on local machines
effectively enough. This is not weird edge cases where someone gets
access to a super computer for some advanced scientific analysis. The
vast majority of these cases do not require any sort of high-qualiy,
latest, expensive hardware.

Public hosting of code in a repository is not SaaSS, as it isn't your
own private computing done instead on someone else's server. It's about
public serving of data. The whole point here is that the FSF recognizes
that people can't all easily run their own servers and services, even
though that might be ideal.

--
Aaron Wolf
co-founder, Snowdrift.coop
music teacher, wolftune.com

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