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Re: [libreplanet-discuss] suggestion/help. GPL enforcement.


From: Patrick
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] suggestion/help. GPL enforcement.
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 12:13:12 -0400
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/38.8.0

On 06/05/2016 12:04 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:

On 05/06/16 17:46, Patrick wrote:
On 06/05/2016 11:16 AM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
On 05/06/16 16:57, Patrick wrote:
Hi Everyone

This is a horrible post and will probably trigger some very negative
reactions. I am trying to help and I am being honest so please don't get
too angry at me.

I've tinkered with the BSD world and I really believe GPL and the Free
Software foundation are the way to go. I have frustrations with the FSF
in that it seems to focus too much on all the bad things others are
doing and not enough on what good is being done but overall I don't
think there is much of a choice and I want to make things work.

So to the point!

I have spent quite a bit of time thinking about how to circumvent the
GPL.

The GPL puts people like me in a bad situation. I work with scientific
instrumentation. It's a corner-case market but world-wide.

I would never just take GPL code and mis-license it. I will obey it.
However the people that use the software in my corner-case market are
spread across the world. I can't sue these people if they violate the
GPL and so many of their Governments don't care about the GPL.

Enforcing the GPL is like playing whack-a-mole.  It may not be feasible
to sue every violator

More likely, it will be about suing violators who are somehow successful
and taking a share in their profits and recycling that money to sue
other big violators.

I am in Canada and I don't have the money to sue a company in Brazil but
the Brazilian Government respects the GPL and there may be many
countries outside of Europe/Australia/New Zealand/Korea/Japan and the
Americas that do too. I just might not be aware of them.

You may be able to buy a legal insurance policy or assign your
intellectual property rights (for any software you create) to some
non-profit organization that has legal insurance.

The legal insurers will then look at each copyright violation and if
they believe the long term chance of legal success is sufficient and if
they find the violator has assets worth seizing, they will gladly jump
in to fight for you.


Would it be possible for a GPL compatible license to be created that
would forbid GPL software from being distributed to countries were the
GPL was weakly/not enforced?

That is a tricky question

Many people may be tempted to question whether that would be a free
license any more.

In a practical sense, such a modified license would be no more effective
than the existing GPL because violators just don't care.  Everybody else
would suffer a huge burden trying to stop distribution.

The actual number of countries where there is no viable copyright system
is not so large.

What is the point of granting the user the rights to freely distribute
the code under the terms of the GPL if the code is distributed to
locations were the GPL is not enforceable? It just becomes public domain
code.

The point is that it is a good strategy and what you are proposing is
less practical.

Chinese people do not call China, China, they call it Zhongguo. It means
centre of the world or middle kingdom. It's an arrogant name but can you
really blame them or ask them to change it. Everyone was crazy 3000
years ago.

I think that we in the "west" (including Japan/Korea/Australia etc) are
arrogant too and have a mentality "centre of the world" too.

Who cared about China and India 20 or 30 years ago. If people there
stole software, it didn't matter, they weren't important economically.

They are now and we need to update our views so that software licensing
makes sense. We in the "west" are not the centre of the world anymore.
We need a GPL compatible license that acknowledges the problems of
globalization.

Or maybe we need to think about how copyright and intellectual property
law should work at a global scale, regardless of whether the subject
matter is GPL or not.

Regards,

Daniel


Hi Daniel

Thanks for your post, that was a lot more positive that I was expecting :)

So China is now the worlds 2nd largest economy. If big companies with
big teeth like Microsoft and Oracle can't stop piracy in China, what
chance do I have.

India has the largest concentration of Pharmaceutical companies in the
world and is very much the center of the world in this industry now.

Here in Canada my Government has approved a 15B arms deal with Saudi
Arabia, a country that is actually crucifying people not to mention
carpet bombing people in Yemen and occupying Bahrain.

The proprietary software people are at a huge advantage, only their
binaries are getting ripped off.

How can it be said that the GPL is suitable for use in a global economy?

Is democracy really expanding or are we just getting pulled deeper and
deeper into the sphere of influence of dictatorships? How can we stop
stop countries like China from ripping off GPL code or even proprietary
code?

China DOES matter!

How the hell can I change the world when much of it is so barbaric. What
is the point of using the GPL in a global economy?

I would also like to say that I am only seeking a GPL compatible license
and not asking for changes to the GPL itself, that would be insane.


There are big issues here

On the GPL issue, it is the best we have so far and we shouldn't hold
back on releasing code under GPL simply because of these concerns.

If you are concerned about the bigger issues, you need to think about either

a) getting more involved in the political process (America's
presidential candidates, Trump and Clinton, are both examples of what
happens when smart people are all being apathetic or too busy doing
other stuff and politics is left to the idiots)

b) moving to a country where you can participate in democracy (for
example, Switzerland lets citizens have referendums on anything)

c) helping political groups with credible leadership and credible
policies gain some advantage, possibly by helping them with better
technology



Hi Daniel

These are all good suggestions but it does not answer the question of how to write GPL code without working for free for dictatorships.

-Patrick





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