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Re: [libreplanet-discuss] Is Stallman nuts?


From: Betsy Garrett
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] Is Stallman nuts?
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 16:37:23 -0400

I’m going to have to unsubscribe from this list until this discussion has
run its course.

On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 4:32 PM TechLibre <nthomas@techlibre.net> wrote:

> My 17 year old can't go to the US Virgin Islands with out my consent and
> neither did any of these young ladies without parental/state actor's help.
>
> The consent issue and very poor to criminal parenting are intertwined.
>
> In a society where Billy Ray helps Hanna Montana become Miley, I guess we
> have to unravel that on an FSF thread by blaming Stallman for raising
> exactly that issue.
>
> I have teenagers with 2 passports. I live in a country with 1 million
> brand new Venezuelan refugees.
>
> Trust me, the consent and law 'popular opinions' are the problem, zero
> kids/girls/women will be pulled off the stroll in Lima Peru by this mailing
> list.
>
> The same applies in Cambridge, Mass.
>
> The tragedy is, there's enough money and brain power on this list to
> change hundreds of individual lives beyond FreeSoftware, but no keyboards
> would be involved and you'd most certainly end up around people who make
> you uncomfortable.
>
> I'm going to hold my record of fixing zero of Stallman's bugs, and
> Epstein's look all done.
>
> There's this one bug though...where a young woman might think getting on a
> plane with a rich guy for the weekend is a good idea and her best option to
> make money.
>
> Damn I hate that bug.
> --
> Freesoftware is Agorism for people who are good at computer.
>
> On September 15, 2019 2:40:03 PM GMT-05:00, MARY-ANNE WOLF <
> mgwmgw@comcast.net> wrote:
> >Let me make sure that I understand the distinction that is being
> >claimed here.  A young lady who is in fact young enough to be below the
> >age of giving sexual consent "presents herself as being willing" to
> >Epstein, an adult man aged over 21.  This happens with multiple
> >underage girls on more than one occasion.
> >
> >So if Epstein has sex with each underage girl after she "presents
> >herself as being willing", are you arguing that statutory rape has not
> >occured?  If so, on what grounds?
> >
> >If it were one girl, we could debate whether Epstein believed that the
> >young lady was older than was the case.  If we are talking about
> >multiple underage girls, using an airplane named "The Lolita Express"
> >that becomes much less plausible. I think we can assume he knew how
> >young they were.
> >
> >So if a girl too young to give sexual consent tries to do so, and an
> >adult male repeatedly acts as if he believes that she is old enough to
> >give consent, does her action get him off the hook?  I do not think so.
> >And if this happens with girl after girl after girl after girl?
> >Really?
> >
> >If you believe that statutory rape did occur, then what does presenting
> >herself as willing have to do with it?  Why bring that up?  Legally
> >speaking, she was raped, no matter what she said first.
> >
> >So how is Stallman not trying to excuse statutory rape by what he
> >posted?
> >
> >Mary-Anne
> >
> >
> >> On September 15, 2019 at 2:46 PM Michael Downey <michael@downey.net>
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I have not read the commentary articles, nor do I intend to. I have,
> >on the other hand, read the comments by the FSF President and Board
> >member on the mailing list in question. They are entirely inappropriate
> >comments for someone in his public position to be making.
> >>
> >> I spend my day job trying to convince large governments and NGO's of
> >the value of free software. Once again they see the FSF leader behaving
> >inappropriately and I have to make excuses for him and the organization
> >that continues to provide him safe harbor, and explain that they don't
> >represent the values of the free software movement.
> >>
> >> I'm exhausted of doing that. The board has had many opportunities to
> >remove him from his role yet each time back down.
> >>
> >> As a single individual associate member, I can't do much. But I can
> >(and have) revoked my 15+ year membership and am removing all
> >references to the FSF in materials from my day job. We just can't be
> >associated with that kind of public behavior any more.
> >>
> >> The letter I sent to the FSF follows. I'll be unsubscribing from this
> >mailing list too, unfortunately, but encourage others to reconsider
> >their support until the board acts in a way true to its public charter.
> >For the sake of software freedom, I hope my absence is short-lived.
> >>
> >> - Michael
> >>
> >> FSF associate member #2352 (since 2004-05-20) here. I also accepted
> >the Free Software Award for Projects of Social Benefit several years
> >ago.
> >>
> >> It’s unfortunate to hear yet another incident about the FSF
> >President’s unacceptable behavior in the news again.
> >>
> >> Despite all the good things this organization does, this continued
> >behavior while holding the role makes it untenable for me to publicly
> >support the FSF. And that’s a bad thing for software freedom.
> >>
> >> Software freedom is an important human right, but if one has to
> >publicly trample others’ human rights in order to get there, one
> >undermines one’s own cause.
> >>
> >> With his continued behavior over the years, Stallman has done damage
> >to our movement that will take a very long time to repair. It’s time
> >for him to step down and let the next generation lead this critical
> >movement into the future.
> >>
> >> Should he be unwilling to do so, I note that based upon my review of
> >the FSF bylaws, the Board has the power to remove the person in office
> >of President with or without cause upon vote of the board. (Article VI,
> >Section 7.)
> >>
> >> Until that time, I must regrettably cancel my associate membership.
> >>
> >> /s/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> >> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
> >
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