Re: [libreplanet-discuss] No, Stallman isn't "nuts" nor does he deserve less freedom of speech

[Leah Rowe]

I'm unsubscribing from this list. The FSF has been stagnating a lot
over the years anyway... though I still respect them, and RMS.

But I don't like all this spam, and most of what goes on this list
appears to be spam nowadays :S

Before I do unsubscribe, I'd like to impart some wisdom on you all:

While the FSF and GNU project (and RMS, in spite of his many flaws -
hey, we're not perfect. cut the guy some slack OK? he stands by his
convictions to the letter, and you have to respect that) are wonderful,
they are not the whole movement. My advice: respect organisations like
the FSF, but realize they don't operate on their own; the movement is
powered by people like *you*. In fact, the FSF in my own personal
experience is chronically understaffed and most of their work is done
by volunteers... The FSF is what I consider a "thought leader"
- more or less like a political party. Thought leaders are great, but
you don't get there on thought alone.

Keep writing free software and keep spreading the good word of free
software and (more importantly) copyleft. Trivial stuff like this shit
with RMS mean nothing in the grand scheme. Just a cranky old man with
the best of intentions, saying things now and then that are a bit weird
(but I could say the same of anyone).

And keep donating to the FSF. They *do* do excellent work in the
community.

I'll leave it at that for today. I might come to future libreplanet
conferences still.

On Sun, 15
Sep 2019 21:47:26 -0400 Steven Sullam <steve@stevesullam.com> wrote:

> WTF? I became interested in the libre group as a more human
> alternative to commercial profit driven technology. I am not
> interesed in reading discussions of Richard Stallman's personal life
> or the lack of ethics in his personal behavior here.
> 
> On 9/15/19 8:53 PM, J.B. Nicholson wrote:
> > Adrienne G. Thompson wrote:
> >> The record on Richard Stallman underscores that he is driven by 
> >> ethical sensibilities. He's not about to approve of rape anytime 
> >> soon. So let's just tell rms to shut up about the Epstein matter,
> >> not to attempt to
> >> defend his idols (some of which I, *personally*, know are not worth
> >> defending) and to get a female FSF colleague to censor all his
> >> comments pertaining to women before these comments go public.
> >
> > Or you could choose to not tell him or anyone else to "shut up" or 
> > accept a censorship regime. And you could also reject virtue 
> > signaling, sexism, and identity politics (regarding the "get a
> > female FSF colleague"). After all, for all you know he could select
> > a woman who doesn't agree with your take and you'll have nowhere to
> > go because he met your sexist and identity politics-driven request.
> >
> > You could understand that he too gets freedom of speech to say
> > things you don't agree with (that's what freedom of speech is for,
> > after all). You could choose to continue to use your freedom of
> > speech as you've done while also respecting his. Counterspeech
> > seems far more appropriate for this situation where Stallman hasn't
> > done anything more wrong than possibly hold, share, and change
> > views some others don't like.
> >
> > His comments across some posts to his personal blog make me think
> > I'm getting a poorly-explained half story from others on this
> > topic. Considering what he wrote in 
> > https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Statements_about_Epstein)
> >
> >> I want to respond to the misleading media coverage of messages I
> >> posted about Marvin Minsky's association with Jeffrey Epstein. The
> >> coverage totally mischaracterised my statements.
> >>
> >> Headlines say that I defended Epstein. Nothing could be further
> >> from the truth. I've called him a "serial rapist", and said he
> >> deserved to be imprisoned. But many people now believe I defended
> >> him — and other inaccurate claims — and feel a real hurt because
> >> of what they believe I said.
> >>
> >> I'm sorry for that hurt. I wish I could have prevented the
> >> misunderstanding.
> > https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong)
> >  
> >
> >
> >> Many years ago I posted that I could not see anything wrong about
> >> sex between an adult and a child, if the child accepted it.
> >>
> >> Through personal conversations in recent years, I've learned to
> >> understand how sex with a child can harm per psychologically. This
> >> changed my mind about the matter: I think adults should not do
> >> that. I am grateful for the conversations that enabled me to
> >> understand why.
> >
> > https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#13_September_2019_(Epstein_donations)
> >  
> >
> >
> >> Media Lab Director Joi Ito confessed that he had secretly accepted
> >> donations from Epstein after MIT had decided not to do so.
> >>
> >> He also accepted funds for some personal activities of his own.
> >>
> >> That dishonesty, and conflict of interest, make his resignation
> >> obligatory.
> >>
> >> But I fear for the effect on the Media Lab. Under Negroponte, the
> >> lab was notoriously stingy and proprietary. Ito corrected that. I
> >> fear that the next director will undo some of Ito's changes.
> >
> > https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#11_August_2019_(Jeffrey_Epstein_committed_suicide)
> >  
> >
> >
> >> Jeffrey Epstein appears to have committed suicide in his cell. Or
> >> perhaps he was murdered — it is not unusual for prisoners to murder
> >> prisoners accused of sexual crimes.
> >>
> >> Epstein was accused of trafficking: bringing people long distances
> >> on false pretenses and then pressured them into sex or
> >> prostitution. He also reportedly raped some of those people. I
> >> believe those accusations, and I think he deserved to be
> >> imprisoned.
> >>
> >> Some of his victims were legally adult. Some were teenage minors. I
> >> don't think that makes any moral difference. I don't think rape is
> >> less wrong if the victim is over 16.
> >
> > as well as other posts on that same webpage, I see a consistent 
> > objection to rape regardless of the age of the victim, and I see 
> > public contrition for changing a view he held which he now views as 
> > wrong. Had we followed your censorious recommendations back then
> > (to either "shut up" or to "get a female FSF colleague to censor
> > all his comments pertaining to women before these comments go
> > public") we might not have been able to read 
> > https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong)
> >  
> > today and we'd lack any principled claim on free speech.
> >
> > Those who choose to conflate Stallman's views with those of the FSF
> > or the GNU Project seem to me to be either making a mistake in that 
> > conflation or be opportunistic (possibly virtue signaling).
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
> 
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-- 
Leah Rowe <info@minifree.org>
Company Director & Libreboot developer
https://minifree.org/ https://libreboot.org/

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