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Re: Support RMS

From: Jean Louis
Subject: Re: Support RMS
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 09:56:59 +0300
User-agent: Mutt/2.0.6 (2021-03-06)

* Aaron Wolf <> [2021-04-16 09:05]:
> I see boy-cried-wolf dynamics at play in all this. And there *are*
> witch-hunt dynamics.

Aaron, from conversation with Deb, Danny and Alexander, I can see
there are some problems that some people experience, and I am sure
that there is no perfect public speaker, but those problems so far I
have understood from asking and getting questions are so rare, that
they cannot find it on video, and number of people complained about
interruption of women being approached is so slow.

So I keep the summary of fact finding here:

- not first hand, but second hand story exist of more than 6 people
  who told how they did not find something appropriate, none of those
  people ever talked about it on this mailing list, and we do not know
  their names; there is mentioning of virgin jokes; we know that it is
  impossible for everybody to find something funny, it is how it is;
  there is mentioning of women being approached by RMS, but nothing so
  far illegal or problematic. There are no evidences for those, as
  those are second hand stories, not first hand stories;

- RMS once interrupted young man in speech; and will continue doing so
  most probably when there are frictions in the context of free
  software; it comes from second hand story, but is very irrelevant as
  one can assume that in debates people interrupt each other;

- RMS did not wear sandals; Danny did not smell his feet; as she was
  not so close to RMS; question is how did she see RMS not having
  sandals if she was not that close; that is one first hand experience
  that I find proper to mention;

- RMS talked angrily from behind on Libreplanet 2018, but there is no
  URL to the video yet, please find the URL here: like which video was it>

Is there something I missed? Please add more to it, let us make a list
that is of first hand experiences as when people bring generalizations
into public space and call for virtual character lynch, then it is
best to bring the specifics, that we demonstrate we are better than
the mob dynamics.

I think that it is good to speak to Deb and Danny, but what I find
kind of tiresome is to get the fact finding straight, but I am
thankful that they brought it up in better detailed manner; now I am
experiencing it as cultural differences, clash of different behavior;
and I still cannot see how those personal disagreements on how human
should behave are in conflict with the overall job done; I hope both
of them will tell us more particulars.

RMS have merits. Those personal disagreements do not justify character
assassination and destruction of created merits. The outcome is far
worse than what accusers wanted to bring up as an issue.

Accusers are doing that what they are accusing others for.

Aaron, I do not experience any war of people, neither much of
conflict, what I experience is lack of communication between people
and lack of tolerance to understand differences between people.

For me it summarizes that people don't travel enough. They come to
Libreplanet, not understanding the actual planet. Travel more, visit
India, go through slam streets of Nagpur, eat with people who have
long and dirty nails, swim naked in lakes around Oslo in Norway, or
turban wound and face covered Muslim women serving in post offices,
visit some mosques, Greece, Africa, nudist beaches in Croatia, South
America, go around the world, dance and sing with people, do some
projects together. Get a different view point. Libreplanet conference
is not my home, I am meeting variety of people and is impossible that
it fulfils my personal expectations.

Maybe for Deb, Danny or others, this may be also disappointing effect
due to affection to RMS, as maybe they had illusion that RMS is more
than human. This is similar effect with any public or prominent
person. We love them until we meet them, as then we may find something
not appropriate for us personally, and start talking about it to

In general I see these issues as unspoken communication that has to be
spoken out once in a while.

When people cannot speak their mind out in the moment, they will tend
to speak about it later to other people.

But problems are solved better if those who feel in some way offended
when they speak to the alleged offender themselves. Lack of
confrontation in communication is what makes them lose self esteem and
they may need years to speak out what happened to them. But those
personal experiences do not justify character assassinations.

I would like to know more about those anecdotes.

> I do not feel comfortable naming names because I do not have
> permission to share stories that were told to me privately.

And why you did it?

I don't value any generalizations, pumped up stories, drama without

Please be concrete and do it how Danny did it. I know people like to
talk behind the back, but why not say:

- do you have first hand personal experience? Tell us the story.

- to be fair, tell us also some good stories, or tell us, if there was
  no good story at all, as compared to the bad story you have.

- do not bring up anonymous, second hand story, story that is not from
  your personal experience, as this way you just create more rumours
  and rumours, there is no fact, no fact finding possible.

> Also, most of the stories did not go into details, so I don't even
> really know.

But you said it in several paragraphs that you are raising tensions
without any necessity, you are contradicting to yourself that you
don't want to raise tensions, but you do raise tensions, in the end
you say you don't even know. You are getting nervous but create other
people getting nervous.

> Like here's one story: I was at Libreplanet 2014 and RMS was speaking
> and mentioned offhand how a certain sort of older computer with no disk,
> they used to joke and called it a dickless computer. 10 minutes later he
> apologized for the crass joke in a sincere manner before awarding some
> sort of women-in-free-software award. I heard second hand that he had to
> have someone pull him aside and emphasize the problem before he realized
> the issue and apologized.

Good story. But what I find wrong is that thought police stops RMS
calling on that dickless computer joke. Hahahahhah. You people there
are very very strange. Here comes the song "Sound of Silence" at
proper place. As if you continue undeveloping civilization this way,
one day you will not even speak between each other.

Well, one common behavior and expectation for public speakers is not
to mention obscene words, but other expectation is that when speaker
is known  to make jokes is that it is expected and welcome. Would RMS
be stand up comedian, none of you would be complaining for nothing.

How many stand up comedians make such and more obscene jokes? And
people like it. Please....

Problem is that RMS is not a stand up comedian, but he makes jokes
occasionally and some find it out of context. But that same audience
would like to hear obscene jokes in a stand up comedian show.

Admit it. It is hypocrisy.

> This is troublesome, and you know straw-that-broke-the-camels-back
> is another parable.

That is troublesome my ass. That is what you say witch hunt,
troublesome for joke? LOL. You really develop unreasonably as human
society there, maybe in Boston, where was it.

Would some Russians would be there, they would be laughing
out. Problem is your development there, and desire to make every
person same, same, same, let us all be same, and thus normal, normal,
normal, don't do anything out of the normal way, as otherwise you are
not normal, normal, normal.

And you will never see how deeply you people are brainwashed.

By the way none of you have converted proprietary Windoze computer to
free software system during this discussion, I would give you all
yellow card.


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