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Re: very specific project proposal Re: What does Elon Musk say about fre

From: Thomas Lord
Subject: Re: very specific project proposal Re: What does Elon Musk say about free software?
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 15:31:01 -0700
User-agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.17

And I wish to add that I think I offend some FSF
fans by saying I think the underlying cause is that
the FSF has somehow lost sight of two critical goals:

  1. Education for the general public.

  2. Promoting (through action, through help) far greater
     intentional, direct use of libre software (including
     the more widespread exercise of all four freedoms --
     not merely the recitation of why they are good).

So I see something like this need of some people to break
free of twitter and wonder why the free software movement isn't
all over such opportunities, with resources, and coordination,
and support.

And then I look at the FSF, who I think should be working on that,
and get depressed about "whatever happened to the free software movement"?


On 2022-05-12 12:21, p_newsletters/libreplanet--- via libreplanet-discuss wrote:
I somewhat agree with Thomas.

I myself have been interested about freedom of software almost 15
years. This interests me a lot and I found myself numerous times
spending plenty of hours in just going deep in the rabbit
hole. However, this can't be expected from a "non-tech" user, a.k.a
the large part of the population, who indeed they'd be interested
about regaining freedom but are greeted with a comprehensive and
overwhelming amount of info.

I talk about fs to many of my peers and then I refer them to
to learn more. The result, lack of engagement and retention from my
peers with the site. To me this isn't a problem of the user.

My take is that, conveys a lot of info, but not effectively.
Less is more, even in the education field. Notice that I am not
suggesting deleting info, but better summarize and display.

I think could benefit from better UX design.

In contradiction with my text, for me the fsf's page is great. But
again, I am a tech-interested person and don't represent the larger
amount of internet users.

------- Original Message -------
On Thursday, May 12th, 2022 at 18:45, Thomas Lord - lord at <> wrote:


> Thomas, you again spread Fears, Uncertainties and Doubts - FUD. I
> cannot take your statements seriously.

That's fine.

I am curious if you think that the ~40 year old Free Software Movement
is doing an effective job of spreading the actual practice of software
freedom, and even the awareness of the option and what it means for
human freedom?

And if I want to point busy city officials or others who
could benefit from changing their practices to some web page
that will help them help themselves with that, smoothly
and efficiently, what page would you suggest? What educational
materials will help someone like that?

How will potential users find those materials if I say simply
"check out"?

What steps has FSF taken in recent decades that have helped
with this kind of problem? Is the "free software ladder"
concept meant to do this (that isn't my understanding of it
so far)?

Similarly, say, a college student not in
computer science or anything close to that? or a
professor who may be tempted to require students
to use unfree software -- where can they quickly and
easily check for a better option?


On 2022-05-11 20:44, Jean Louis wrote:

> * Thomas Lord [2022-05-12 03:26]:
> > All the more reason why this is a valuable idea
> > for an organization whose primary purpose is spreading
> > education and real world use of libre software systems.
> >
> > Meanwhile, there is whatever the FSF is trying to do
> > which is entirely unclear from their web site.
> >
> > This reminds of a few years back when I wanted to point
> > city officials in Berkeley to some online resource where
> > they could quickly learn about software freedom and about
> > available software -- and I discovered that nothing on
> > the FSF web site was at all adequate to this.
> Thomas, you again spread Fears, Uncertainties and Doubts - FUD. I
> cannot take your statements seriously.
> -- it is very clear what FSF does straight from
> their website.
> Jean
> Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
> In support of Richard M. Stallman
> _______________________________________________
> libreplanet-discuss mailing list

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