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Re[2]: Stem: flag-style

From: Jérémie Lumbroso
Subject: Re[2]: Stem: flag-style
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 02:00:54 +0200

Hello Juergen,

(I  just discovered this mailing list, so forgive me for not
having followed this discussion since it's beginning...)

JR> After reading all these articles, I think the bottom line is that
JR> there are many different ornaments with many different signs.  The
JR> signs are placed over the notes, between the notes or by striking the
JR> stem (not the flag); many of them are alternative (e.g. an Mordent may
JR> be indicated via a curved line after the note head, by a zig-zag line
JR> with a stroke over the note, or by two parallel lines over the note).
OK, I think I can clear this a little for you all.  What you
call  the  "curved  line"  after the note is the mordent (or
pincé)  that  was  mostly  used  by French composers (if not
only).  The best examples of this are Rameau and D'Anglebert
(the  latter  had  the most complex ornamentation table over
Europe).   The  "two parallel lines" are used by a very very
few  composers,  namely english composers such as Purcell (I
submitted an example a long time ago). And finally, the "zig
zag  line  with a stroke", the only one that was included if
it  weren't  for Mats, is the most common one, used by a lot
of German and Italian composers (they were often connected).

Some composers chose fit to create totally new symbol, as to
avoid  confusion, and make their sheets perfectly clear from
misinterpretation(that's the case of F. Couperin who created
a new kind of mordent).

In  French  (who, opposite from personal and intimate German
music,  prefer  more  extravagant  music  - except from some
discreet  composers such as Sainte Colombe or even Couperin)
there  is plenty of ways to describe each ornament. The word
ornament has many many translations :
Ornement,   Passage,  Agrément,  Battement,  Embelissement,
Expressions, Augmentations to name a few.

JR> Regarding the stroke problem, the key sentence (from article
JR> "Appogiatura", pp. 43-45) is:

JR> "A few composers wrote the long appogiatura as a small note of the
JR> exact value in which it should be performed and distinguished the
JR> short appogiatura from it by means of a single stroke across the stem
JR> (for a 16th note) or a double stroke (for a 32nd note), but this
JR> practice was by no means consistently carried out."

JR> There is no further notion of attaching any other symbols to or
JR> printing them across the stem.

JR> MGG contains an article called "Verzierungen" (MGG vol. 13,
JR> col. 1526-1556), written in 1966, which is 16 pages long and discusses
JR> many ornaments from the middle-ages to romanticism and tracks the
JR> development over time for many countries separately.
It'd  be  terribly  exiting  if  we  could our hands on that
article... Would you mind scanning the pages?

JR> Since HDM is from 1972 and often cites MGG, but differs in the
JR> interpretation of the strokes, I wonder if music science has advanced
JR> on this specific topic between 1966 and 1972, or if the terms 'single
JR> stroke' and 'double stroke' apply to different notation symbols and/or
JR> different epoches, or if simply one of the two sources is wrong.
I couldn't tell you, because I don't know those two sources,
but  to compare, I'll tel you that a few decades ago, nobody
knew  the  difference beetween all those ornaments (mordent,
prall, turn, etc.) and all played them as the moder (aweful)

Best regards,
 Jérémie                            mailto:address@hidden

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