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Re: dot changes break Gregorian notation

From: Juergen Reuter
Subject: Re: dot changes break Gregorian notation
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 17:36:24 +0200 (CEST)

Sorry for this late answer, but I am still overloaded with work... :-(

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007, Joe Neeman wrote:

On Wednesday 11 July 2007 17:18, Werner LEMBERG wrote:

your latest changes break the \augmentum stuff in Gregorian notation.
(Do a search for `augmentum' and compare the example on the web page
created from the current git with the one in

Thanks for the heads-up; I'll have a look soon.

Thanks Werner for pointing that out and thanks Joe for looking into it!

I am also noticing that in the first table in manual Section (Gregorian square neumes ligatures) the alignment of both the neumes and the text is (again/still?) broken: the letters appear sometimes over the neumes (e.g. in the line "3. Apostropha vel Stropha"), sometimes below the neumes (e.g. in the line "7. Pes Quassus"). Furthermore, few separate neumes collide (e.g. in the line "5. Clivis vel Flexa" the neumes that are marked with letters "l" and "m"). I do not know if these problems are related with your (otherwise excellent!) work; I just want to point out that these things broke lately, compared to e.g. lily v2.10. (N.B.: These comments refer to the lily web site as of today, namely

There are some other spacing problems with the Gregorian stuff -- are
you in the mood to handle this too?

Always happy to fix bugs, particularly if I'm already working on that code.
But I'm not really familiar with pre-Baroque notation so I would need to be
told exactly what needs fixing. It would be good if I had a decent pile of
examples, too, because I'm unlikely to come up with useful ones myself.

Most often, there is too much space after ligatures. A good example is the 2nd line of score in "7.7.12 Mensural contexts" in the 2.11.27 manual (the "San - - - - ctus"). The problem is that a ligature consists of multiple note heads that are collapsed into a single coherent set of glyphs, while lily still tries to distribute remaining space *between* these note heads, according to the rythmic duration of each note head. As a result, behind each ligature, the spaces for multiple note heads are cumulated.

In fact, for computing the space between musical columns (and only for computing the space), all note heads of a ligature should be considered like a single note head with an unspecified duration (i.e. assume a duration of 0). On the other hand, for assigning ligature glyphs to musical columns, durations do have to be considered, such that e.g. ligatures in different lines of the score that start at the same time are vertically aligned (this assignment to musical columns is already done by the ligature implementation with the help of the "Coherent_ligature_engraver::move_related_items_to_column" function).

There are surely more subtle spacing problems, but I think the above is the most outstanding and pressing one. If that one could be solved, ancient music should hopefully look much better overall.

Hope that helps!

Greetings & thanks,


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