Re: Patch: issue #659

[Marc Hohl]

Alexander Kobel schrieb:
> Marc Hohl wrote:
> > Alexander Kobel schrieb:
> > > I don't really know if I saw the "||-before-break, S-after-break" 
> > > combination, but I think it makes sense to offer it since coda parts 
> > > are often seperated by double bar lines when the "default" segno 
> > > sign is above them.
> > > I'll see what I can find in real examples.  I don't think I have 
> > > anything more at my place, though, so I'll have to look through the 
> > > repertoire of my choir.  (Again, I can't remember to have it seen in 
> > > any non-Bosworth & Co. scores...)  I'll give you feedback ASAP.
> > Did you find anything? If not, tell me what you want to have as 
> > standard, and I will adapt my code.
> > I doesn't seem that there is an overwhelming interest in the varsegno 
> > - which doesn't bother me,
> > because *I* like the sign and will use it regularly as soon as it is 
> > released.  So we both, being called the
> > "varsegno group" should be able to decide what we want ;-)
>
> Hi Marc, hi all,
>
> and sorry for the delay.  As you certainly noticed, the weather was an 
> experience the last days, and thus my choir did not have any 
> rehearsals, so I had to wait for a look into our note repertoire.
Yes - tons of snow everywhere...
> I did not found too much.  Most parts have the plain "S" bar somewhere 
> in between, but I found one combination of a segno and a "|:" bar line 
> afterwards (once more Bosworth & Co.).  This one also has the double 
> bar line drawn through the segno symbol, and there's about the width 
> of a double bar line between "S" and "|:".  (It's a cheap old copy, 
> not very legible, but I can provide you a scan if you want.)  Yes, 
> this really makes sense if there are several stanzas (with volta 
> repeats), and the first part of the last stanza switches to a coda.
> I'm not sure how the double bar line would look in combination with a 
> SpanBar, though - I'd guess it looks best if the SpanBar only affects 
> the "|:", but not the "S" part.
I agree with you and hope that this could be easily implemented.
> So, what do I think is useful?  In the optimum, we should have the 
> following combinations:
>
> In-line:
> - "S"
> - ":|S" (repeated intro, e.g.)
> - "S|:" (the case mentioned above)
> - ":|S|:" (certainly unusual, but possible)
>
> On a line break:
> - "|S" ("|" end of line, "S" begin of line)
> - "S|" ("S" only end of line)
> - "||S" ("||" end of line, "S" begin of line)
> - "S||" (vice-versa)
> - basically the same options for repeats, i.e. ":|S", "S:|", "S|:", 
> "|:S", ":|S|:", and perhaps even ":|S.|:", where the ":|S" is at the 
> end of line, and only "|:" at begin of line.
Wow, lots of options - I'll see what I can do ;-)
> "S" should be mapped to either "|S" or "||S" on line breaks - I'd 
> prefer "||S", since this exactly fits my use of the traditional segno 
> glyph so far, but that's just personal taste.
> In general, I have a strong opinion against the "S" at the end of the 
> first line in break situations, because the reader is forced to do an 
> additional saccade, but I've seen several scores where the traditional 
> segno sign is placed at the end of the line.  Anyway, it has to be 
> offered, because things like \stopStaff followed by a "Dal segno al 
> fine" have to be possible.
Yes, I think this is the only situation where this sign should be placed 
at the end of a line.
> As for the X-extent, as I mentioned before, I'd prefer the segno 
> slightly sticking out of the staff lines into the margin and having 
> the "||" aligned with the right edge, but that's just personal taste - 
> I could not find a print where "S" is used at the end of a line 
> without a "D.S. al fine" text following, and for this both variants 
> (staff lines drawn through the whole symbol, or just to the double bar 
> line) can be found.
Again, I'll have to check whether and how this is possible.
> One more remark: I did not test your current implementation in 
> combination with clef, key or time changes.  Is this an issue?  It'd 
> be nice to have a key change printed between "S" and a "D.S. al fine" 
> text to remind the reader of the different key in the repeated part.
Not yet, but I'll do that once the options are included.
> Whoah.  I'm afraid that might be more than you hoped for?
Yes - but when it's done, it should be done properly, so your proposals 
are very helpful.

This my take some time - I'll be back when the new patch is ready.

Marc
> Cheers,
> Alexander