[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: tie over clef change
From: |
David Kastrup |
Subject: |
Re: tie over clef change |
Date: |
Sun, 27 Sep 2020 20:20:06 +0200 |
User-agent: |
Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) |
Hans Åberg <haberg-1@telia.com> writes:
>> On 27 Sep 2020, at 19:31, David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hans Åberg <haberg-1@telia.com> writes:
>>
>>>> On 26 Sep 2020, at 18:04, Dan Eble <dan@faithful.be> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 26, 2020, at 09:41, Dan Eble <dan@faithful.be> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 26, 2020, at 08:55, Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Despite Gould's “incorrect” verdict, here is an example from an old UE
>>>>>> edition of Liszt's “Liebestraum No. 1”, which demonstrates that ties
>>>>>> over clef changes *do* happen and make sense sometimes...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I still think that LilyPond should support that, handling the tie like
>>>>>> a slur in this case.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a very good example. It's hard to imagine any reasonable
>>>>> alternative.
>>>>>
>>>>> What kind of grob would an editor expect here? a Tie because it
>>>>> connects notes of the same pitch, or a Slur because it connects
>>>>> notes at different staff positions? (or something else?)
>>>>
>>>> I'll answer my own question. A tie from d♯ to e♭ generates a Tie
>>>> grob, so for consistency, this should be a Tie that looks like a
>>>> slur.
>>>
>>> The notes d♯ to e♭ have different pitches in the staff notation
>>> system, which cannot express E12 enharmonic equivalents, so this is
>>> slur. So it should be a slur that looks like slur.
>>
>> We are talking about a piano here. It has no different keys for d♯ and
>> e♭ and only a single manual. A slur even across the same pitch will be
>> executed with a separate keypress as opposed to a tie.
>
> If you look down the thread, there are two different questions, when
> expressing it in the staff notation as is, and when forcing E12
> enharmonic equivalents onto it.
>
> And not all pianos are tuned in E12, as in the case of meantone
> tunings.
I repeat: It has no different keys for d♯ and e♭ and only a single
manual. Yes, I know about historical split-key instruments but that is
not what a modern piano composer is writing for.
>> I seem to remember that even in Bach's B minor mass (where E12 was not
>> yet a thing) there is an enharmonic tie (or at least tonal repetition?)
>> in the transition from "Confiteor" to "Et expecto". I mean, that
>> transition is a tonal center nightmare anyway.
>>
>> I'd have to consult my score to pick out the details.
>
> It would be of interest.
Lukas has picked out the bar elsewhere in the thread.
--
David Kastrup
- Re: tie over clef change, (continued)
- Re: tie over clef change, Hans Åberg, 2020/09/26
- Re: tie over clef change, David Kastrup, 2020/09/27
- Re: tie over clef change, Lukas-Fabian Moser, 2020/09/27
- Re: tie over clef change, David Kastrup, 2020/09/27
- Re: tie over clef change, Hans Åberg, 2020/09/27
- Re: tie over clef change, David Kastrup, 2020/09/27
- Re: tie over clef change, Hans Åberg, 2020/09/27
- Re: tie over clef change, Benkő Pál, 2020/09/28
- Re: tie over clef change, Lukas-Fabian Moser, 2020/09/28
- Re: tie over clef change, Hans Åberg, 2020/09/27
- Re: tie over clef change,
David Kastrup <=
- Re: tie over clef change, Hans Åberg, 2020/09/27
- Re: tie over clef change, Kevin Barry, 2020/09/27
- Re: tie over clef change, Hans Åberg, 2020/09/27
- Re: tie over clef change, Werner LEMBERG, 2020/09/27
- Re: tie over clef change, Hans Åberg, 2020/09/27
- Re: tie over clef change, Lukas-Fabian Moser, 2020/09/27
- Re: tie over clef change, Hans Åberg, 2020/09/28
- Re: tie over clef change, David Kastrup, 2020/09/27
- Re: tie over clef change, Aaron Hill, 2020/09/26
Re: tie over clef change, Jean Abou Samra, 2020/09/26