[Top][All Lists]

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: transpose, transposition, and relative

From: David Raleigh Arnold
Subject: Re: transpose, transposition, and relative
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:57:01 -0500
User-agent: KMail/1.7.1

On Thursday 03 February 2005 07:42 am, address@hidden 
> address@hidden wrote:
> > address@hidden writes:
> > > So - can I respectfully suggest we have a big bug here - either
> > > in the manual or in the implementation of transposition. And imho
> > > the bug should be in the implementation - by changing the
> > > implementation
> >
> > Can I respectfully mention that I still don't understand what
> > you're trying to achieve?  What do you want to see in the notation,
> > what do you want to hear in MIDI, and what do you want to enter in
> > .ly ?
> Okay. I'll try and explain. But I think I've worked out what's going
> on, and why (not saying I agree with it, though).
> Transposition works the way it does because certain instruments (the
> Horn in particular) sometimes change pitch while playing. (Horns swap
> a crook, trumpets and clarinets swap instruments.) This, obviously,
> is a nightmare for lilypond if you're trying to output both a score
> and a soundtrack.
> I'm coming at it from a very different angle. I don't give a damn
> about MIDI, and I'm using lilypond as a music-typesetting program
> (which, indeed, I thought it was). And I play an instrument which, in
> a different way, is as unusual as the horn changing pitch half-way
> through a piece. Depending on the whim of the composer (well, not
> quite), music for me can be written in C or in Bb. When I'm looking
> at my .ly files, I can't say "that's the trombone, therefore those
> notes are concert pitch". When I saw the \transpose directive, I
> missed the bit about "midi only", and thought "great - I can enter
> the notes in Bb, and that will tell lilypond how to convert it to C".
> I *really* *don't* *want* to have half my music with a "\transpose bf
> c" directive in it, and the other half with "\transpose c bf" in it.
> The current option is to transpose all the Bb parts in my head as I
> enter them (or work out how to get that editor to do it for me). It'd
> be nice if lily could do it for me.
> So I'm coming at it from the point of view that "lily is a
> typesetter", I have multiple parts in multiple transpositions, and I
> really do not want the hassle of having to remember which parts are
> in which transpositions - I want everything internal to lily to be in
> C.
> Now bear in mind I'm a programmer by trade, and I missed the warning
> about "midi only" :-) It really seems inconsistent to me for
> \transposition to convert one form of output (sound) to concert
> pitch, while not converting the other (paper).
> Basically, the fly in the ointment is those damn instruments that
> change transposition mid-piece :-) Either we enter the notes
> transposed, and have hacks to cope with outputting midi at concert
> pitch, or we enter the notes at concert pitch, and have hacks to cope
> with outputting music as a playable part.
> Coupled with the fact that a concert-pitch score makes finding
> accidental misprints much easier (intentional double-entendre), I
> would much rather think in concert pitch, and transpose transposing
> instruments on output. I also think the current implementation of
> \transposition is inconsistent (yes I know - now I understand, I
> think the reasons are very sensible...)
> So. I understand the "why". I don't really think it's right, but the
> alternative is just as bad. Can we add a property that says "apply
> transposition to printed output" or "transpose notes according to
> transposition on input" (either implementation would work)? And where
> do I start looking if I want to encode this myself? Not having got to
> grips with lily internals properly yet, I'd be inclined to adjust
> notes by instrumentTransposition as the parser reads them, but I
> don't know how viable an approach that is.
> Cheers,
> Wol

What's missing is an editing tool.  Lilypond code would be required
to make something that did languages, etc., or a transposer would have 
written by now.

The simpler task of filling in missing chromatics on the basis of the
key signature has been done at least twice.  daveA

The only technical exercises for guitar which are worthy of the
instrument consist in "Dynamic Guitar Technique".  I promise miracles.
Get it at:    
daveA         David Raleigh Arnold

reply via email to

[Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread]