Re: Re:F7 chord appearing as E#7 when I transpose (Paul Scott)

[Tao Cumplido]

I can not help you with your special problem since I use my own font for chords 
and let them display as lyrics, but this way I get every chord displayed 
exactly as I want and writing out tranposed parts instead of using a special 
function doesn't take that much extra time.

Another point is that there's no standard jazz chord notation (that's why I 
actually use my own font) and while I agree that printing E# or Fb chords is 
bad to sightread I don't think every Cb chord should be notated as B.
In my opinion a ii V I needs always to be correctly notated and if you 
transpose Dm7 G7 CMaj down a halfstep you'd get Dbm7 Gb7 BMaj which in theory 
wouldn't be a ii V I anymore and leads to confusion while sightreading.

I just reread your first post and I noticed that sou said you have the chords
fis2:m7     b2:7     |       e2:maj7     cis2:m7  |
in the key of C and you tried to transpose them half a step down.
These chords are actually in the key of E and if you tranposed them from E to 
Eb you'd probably get what you want.


regards,

Tao


-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:04:42 -0700 (PDT)
> Von: Robert Glover <address@hidden>
> An: address@hidden
> Betreff: Re:F7 chord appearing as E#7 when I transpose (Paul Scott)

>    I'm the (newbie) person whose post instigated this thread.  I
> faithfully applied the advice given, but alas the result was not 
> satisfactory.  The
> lead sheet is a classic example of the worst possible case:  The "A"
> section starts with I VI  II V.  The "B" section transposes the "A" section 
> into
> the key of III, then transposes the  "A" section into the key of "IV". 
> That worst possible case makes the transposition into keys with four or more
> sharps look terrible because, for example, in the key of "B major "  the "B"
> section has chord "E#m7".  While a purist might argue that is the correct
> representation, it is completely unacceptable to give a lead sheet with
> that chord to a member of a jazz group because instant, fast sight reading is
> required in jazz. It must be notated as Fm7.
>    When I used the clever Scheme technique recommended, it could not
> handle this worst possible case song.  Specifically, in the part of the "B"
> section that is the "A" section transposed into the key of III, it turned the 
> "E#m7" into an "F#6/sus#2" and it changed an "A#7" into a "A#7bb6/susb4". 
> However in the part of the "B" section where it transposed the "A" section
> into the key of IV it did it perfectly, rendering the chords as F7m7 and
> b7.
>    I do appreciate the suggestion I received, but I do not want to leave
> the impression it worked for me because clearly my needs have not been
> filled here.
>    To paraphrase my jazz piano teacher,  what is ultimately needed here is
> a "jazz mode" where it can be specified as an inviolable rule that an E#
> chord is always rendered as an F chord, a B# chord is always rendered as a
> "C" chord. My jazz teacher was uncertain about whether a Cb chord should
> always be rendered as a "B" chord.  He thought about it and finally decided he
> thought it should be always rendered as a "B" chord.  This is a need for
> jazz musicians, not for classical musicians.
>    Anyway, thank you very much for the timely suggestion.  I do appreciate
> it even though so far it's not working for me.
> 
> >> Since the same request has appeared for ordinary notes, some clever
> Scheme
> >> hackers have
> >> made a function that automatically gets rid of the extra accidentals by
> >> enharmonically rewriting the
> >> music.
> 
> >Dumb question: are we sure we still do need the ordinary \transpose?
> 
> >If not, may be we could make it "smarter" by implementing the snippet
> >as a default code... (possibly keeping the current function as an
> >\old-transpose command for backwards compatibility?)
> 
> >Or is it likely to break many many many things?
> 
> >Cheers,
> >Valentin
> 
> 
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