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User vs Developer: Round 2 (and half-time?) (was: Re: music font)


From: Xavier Scheuer
Subject: User vs Developer: Round 2 (and half-time?) (was: Re: music font)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 01:15:40 +0100

This is a split reply from the thread "music font".
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2012-01/msg00752.html
The title is a reference to the fist "Users versus developers" flame war
of which I appear to be also at the origin.
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2009-05/msg00551.html


Dear Graham, dear Developers,

On 22 January 2012 00:35, Graham Percival <address@hidden> wrote:
>
> And I'm a bit disappointed that you keep on whining about
> developers not doing what you want them to do.

Argh, bitten by the red ants' queen!  I guess I asked for it.


> I am not your slave.  The fact that I have volunteered thousands
> of hours working on lilypond does not make me your slave.

I am really sorry if I have hurt some of you, that was not my intention.

>  I did not crawl out of my mother's womb knowing about lilypond
> internals, or even about programming at all.  Any knowledge I have
> was from hard work: reading source code, reading public emails on
> the list archives, and learning about programming in general.  I
> am a bit dissapointed that *you* have not done that.

Please do not consider users as "under men".
We use LilyPond—probably more often than some developers—and hence are
fully aware of its strengths, but also of its "missing features", most
"annoying" bugs, etc.

Yes I am a "simple user", not developing, programming and doing all this
hard work.  I admit I have currently higher priorities than learning
Scheme, C++, etc.  I *use* LilyPond, I try to help in a certain way
(see below), I promote LilyPond around me and make scores for my
university orchestra using LilyPond.  I do not pretend to the title of
"Lead Developer", "Release Meister" or whatever.

If we report issues, regressions and make new features requests, it is
not simply because we wallow in "keep on whining" or because we take a
sadistic pleasure in giving some more work to the developers.

I use LilyPond quite often, I try to help users both on the French users
mailing list and on the international one.  I report bugs, regressions,
make new feature request, both from my "experience" with LilyPond and
making the link between Developers/Users from the international lists
and French Users on lilypond-user-fr (by announcing in French new
features, fixed issues, important ongoing discussions French user might
be concerned about, but also in the reverse way, by transmitting
"upstream" issues discovered by French users or popular requests in the
French users community).

Yesterday I posted several messages on different LilyPond mailing lists.
I replied to some users' questions/issues, I reported a regression bug
"type-critical" and… I started a fight with Graham!
I received at the same time thanks you from users (in English and
French) and infuriation from devel.  I received also acknowledgements
and congratulations about the quality of the score I made with LilyPond
from musicians of my orchestra.


> You want something done?  Do it yourself.  That's what open source
> means -- you have the legal right to do it yourself.  It does not
> mean that other people are obligated to do it for you.

I understand LilyPond is an open source project, lead by volunteers.
That's why I do not complaint when I have to send by three times a
bug report because it was first lost/forgotten, why I never *demand*
developers to fix an issue, even if it is one that is really annoying
my ego in almost every score I typeset.  Sometimes when an issue has
been unfixed for years and when I see people often being troubled by
this issue I post a message stating it and thus moving this issue "from
the bottom of the pile".  And sometimes a kind developer see this issue
and start fixing it!  :-)

>  You have la liberté, not royauté.

Users usually never get any kind of acknowledgements or sign of
gratitude from developers for volunteering [also] few hours trying to
help other users, reporting back issues/requests, trying to "make the
link" between high skilled developers and "lambda user".

I expressed my "deep feelings".  Yes I was disappointed, like when I see
a reply like a "RTFM" smack in the face of a new user, or as a "no" as
only-argument answer to a request/suggestion.  My main goal was to
attract attention to Emilio's nice project of music font with LilyPond.
I attracted Graham's attention on me instead.

I guess my message was as much discouraging (or even more) as being
told each time you make a suggestion "You want something done?  Do it
yourself.  Learn programming!".

I do not want to fight with some developers.  I think we all have the
same objective: to improve LilyPond.  And each one has its own way to
"contribute", at different levels and different implications.
I would be delighted to offer our finest Belgian beer to LilyPond
developers which I could meet at FOSDEM 2012.  I am afraid my student
budget does not allow me to pay developers to work full time on LilyPond.

Cheers,
Whining Xavier

-- 
Xavier Scheuer <address@hidden>



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