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Re: m7.5- transposed to sus#4 b3 ??

From: Malte Meyn
Subject: Re: m7.5- transposed to sus#4 b3 ??
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:19:23 +0100
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.1

Am 12.11.19 um 09:56 schrieb Sandro Santilli:
On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 10:08:07PM +0100, Thomas Morley wrote:
Am Mo., 11. Nov. 2019 um 21:38 Uhr schrieb Sandro Santilli <address@hidden>:

I transcribed an A major song with this chords snippet:

   ees:m7.5- | aes:7 | aes:m7.5- | des:7 |

When transposing it to Eb major it is rendered as:

   Bbbø | Ebb7 | Ebb7sus#4 b3 | Abb7

If you transpose the note eeses down an augmented 4th the note beseses results.

I did not transpose eeses, but ees.

If you let the chords display in \new Staff you get a warning:
warning: Transposing eeses'' by ges makes alteration larger than double

Indeed I do get that warning, but I was not transposing eeses ??
Where does 'eeses' come from ?

It comes from the aes:m7.5- chord. LilyPond represents chords as pitches internally, so that is represented as <aes ces eeses ges>.

To circumvent, you could do \transpose a dis instead.

Yup, this one fixes the warning and the weird rendering.
Still uses double-alterations (double-sharps) but that's a
separate issue (does lilypond have any support to automatically
simpmlify those notes and/or chords?).

Vanilla LilyPond doesn’t have such an automatism but I think there are functions for that in the LilyPond Snippet Repository. But after writing down my findings below I’d go for the harmonically correct sharps even in the untransposed version.

Though, tbh I doubt chords based on ees, aes, des _in_ a-major are
correct at all.
Probably some modulation/key-change before? Or copy from a weird source?

It's "The Shadow Of Your Smile" from the Real Book. I'm not sure
what's going on there, harmonically.

You seem to use the Bb version of The Real Book (vol. 1):
        Eb-7b5 Ab7 Ab-7 Db7
The C version of The Real Book uses the harmonically more correct sharps:
        C#-7b5 F#7 F#-7 B7
The Bb version of The New Real Book (vol. 3) uses the sharp version:
        D#mi7(b5) G#7 G#mi7(b5) C#7

Note that you wrote a half diminished chord (m7b5) on Ab where the Real Book (at least the 5th edition) writes a minor 7 chord (m7).

If you have a close look at the melody in these measures (13–16) you’ll see that The Real Book in Bb uses the sharp version too:
        a'2. cis'4 bis2. a'4 gis1~ gis4 …

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