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Re: String at the bottom of a cover page without using \markup

From: Paolo Prete
Subject: Re: String at the bottom of a cover page without using \markup
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2021 18:48:41 +0100

On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 11:09 PM Paolo Prete <> wrote:
The vertical-fill method does exactly what I asked in the very first post. But soon after, thanks to this thread, I saw some limitations in a pure-LilyPond approach, which I did not know: therefore I stated, *before* you made this example: 

"I well know, and stated several times, that LilyPond has the power of a nuclear reactor.
And I'm sure too that with customizations you can do whatever you want in the cover/introductory pages.
What I meant is different. For these pages I don't want to add or expose logic. "

As you can see, your example adds a hard customization for a task that should be easy in creating cover pages. If I sum all the effort for doing such easy things on cover pages I realize that it is better to have an easier and faster tool for creating such pages, instead of growing the code with work-arounds, custom functions etc. In addition, you would not have to bother in case you are stuck in similar future situations, nor it's required that you learn low-level LP.  
Please note that you wrote the example *after* I decided to use this alternative, and after I stated that in my case the problem was already solved. 

"From what I see, your approach is a low-level approach, therefore it should be wrapped (so to shorten the code and improve the readibility). But wrapping has some other disadvantages, as I explained later. Then I concluded that, in my general case, the best thing is to use multiple tools (which has disadvantages too, of course, but I consider it a better compromise) "

That said, the thread continued because it highlighted interesting points that deserved to be discussed. What I want to say is that you already gave me the solution of the problem, indirectly, by making me learn how the stuff works. 

One last thing:

I would like to encourage Valentin to push his fill-vertical-line function to the main repo.
it's not important that it doesn't cover my general case: what is important is that it fills a hole in standard LP, because a fill-vertical-line is IMHO required for several cases in basic cover or introductory pages. A fill-line is already in standard LP: so, why not a fill-vertical-line too?



On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 10:15 PM Valentin Petzel <> wrote:
Hello Paolo,

Yes, that makes sense. This was never meant as some full working
implementation but just as an example.

Still, what problems did you have with the vertical-fill method? This should
work quite well for cover pages and such.


Am Samstag, 18. Dezember 2021, 21:13:57 CET schrieb Paolo Prete:
> Hello Valentin
> On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 7:35 PM Valentin Petzel <> wrote:
> > Hello Paolo,
> >
> > That is not exactly true. The first time you used the word template was
> > quite
> > some way in when you assumed that you’d need to set the markups
> > differently
> > for any possible configuration (which is where I answered you’d be
> > underestimating Lilypond as you do NOT need to do that. My example showed
> > a
> > way you can have ONE header/footer markup producing different results on
> > global flags (these could also be put inside the header block or a paper
> > block), basically showing you how to create a simple interface like you
> > wanted
> > (although by that point it was not clear to me that you wanted that)).
> ... but, if you pick up again that message, you will find that the
> interface you created did not meet my specs. Here are my words:
> "I should have the flexibility to switch on the fly from one choice to
> another, which is expected in a header + body + footer template, therefore
> this template should not be polluted by mixing body with footer.". In fact
> you redefined the template without wrapping it. Then, it should not be
> considered a template with the flexibilty to switch from one choice to
> another, but rather a customization of a template that doesn't offer that
> easy switch. Even if you do the easy switch as a result, this can't be used
> as template because you did not wrap it. And this has disadvantages, as I
> tried to explain, adding that I could wrap it in my own project, so to meet
> my specs, but this procedure would have disadvantages too.
> > The technical problem here is that there is no clear border between body,
> > header and footer (unless we are taking full control of the page, for
> > which I
> > gave you a way to do this without footer (as I said before, I did not
> > realize
> > we were talking about cover pages before that, even though it says so in
> > the
> > subject. I was expecting a first page with music on it)).
> This is not true, and this is what I added in my explanation later. There
> is such clear border: it is given by the template defaults. These are the
> rules for body, header and footer. When you decide to modify these rules,
> then you are creating a grey area, then it is needed to wrap your
> customization, so to create new defaults (and, consequently, a new
> template). When you violate this rule by modifying two instances of two
> implementations (footer and header) of an interface, instead of  creating
> new instances, then you are doing a hack which makes the code even dirtier,
> then a wrap is doubly needed. In the example we are discussing, the motto
> is logically part of the body. Then, given that the LP template doesn't
> meet this specs, a new template should be created by wrapping a
> customization of the original one. Then you have clean code and you can
> have new clear borders. As you can see, this is a tedious procedure, and
> this is why I prefer to use alternative tools.
> > But let’s be specific about the problem: So your aim here is to create
> > templates? Or do just want to create a cover page with something at the
> > bottom?
> my aim (which is not what I asked at the beginning of the thread, though)
> is not to create templates (I don't have time for now), but to have a way
> to have them for the next future. And I got this result with the
> alternative tool. And, of course, with the help of your (and Aaron's)
> examples, which made me understand how the things works in LP. Therefore
> you are wrong when you feel unmotivated for the things you read. You should
> consider the opposite...
> Please note that there's nothing strange in using an alternative tool for
> this. And I would leave the LP code totally untouched for these tasks.
> IMHO  LP doesn't need to have such sophisticated tools for cover pages, as
> Jean wished. It would be totally beyond its scope. Therefore I find
> ridiculous (and pathetic at the same time) when my words appear as a blame.
> Best,
> Paolo

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