Re: GUI design

[Robert T. Short]

On 03/23/2012 02:36 PM, Jacob Dawid wrote:
> I am sorry to say that, but I think that all the discussion about the 
> GUI is complete non-sense. A GUI is simply a different way to access 
> octave's functionality that integrates better with the ideas and 
> concepts that a state-of-the-art program has to have. What I don't 
> understand is that people are so afraid of using something different 
> than their vi or emacs or whatever they are used to.
>
> Can you click in the terminal and modify a matrix visually, by 
> clicking a cell and simply changing the content? No, you can't. Can 
> you type and - while you type - sort the history in a list, then 
> simply click the command and it will be inserted into the terminal? 
> No, you can't. Sure, you can find different ways to do that, but in 
> the end, a GUI offers many possiblities.
>
> We're in the era of touchscreens and still fiddle with pseudo GUIs in 
> terminals and editors like vi and emacs that simply look terrible and 
> are a nightmare to use.
I wish we would stop using GUI when we mean IDE.  GUI could (and should) 
also mean the ability to create a graphical interface to a particular 
simulation (or whatever you use octave for).  Sloppy terminology and 
sloppy thinking go together.

But for crying out loud, Jordi was just saying that people like "GUIs".  
Many people want to use an IDE.  Many people are very comfortable with 
an IDE, and that is especially true of Windows users.  If they want to 
develop an IDE, go for it.  I'm not doing it, Jordi isn't doing it, 
Daniel isn't doing it.  No skin off of our noses and I seriously doubt 
it is taking significant cycles away from core development.  Furthermore 
nobody, and I mean nobody, on this list has any say over how people 
spend their cycles.

All Jordi was trying to say (I think) was that if we are going to do it, 
then we need to quit fussing about the interface, pick a concept that 
works, and get on with it.  That makes sense.

I personally hate IDEs, and I rabidly disagree with Jacob - anything you 
can do in an IDE can be done with a reasonable suite of tools.  Even 
with an IDE, if the tools aren't there the things Jacob cites as 
advantages aren't there either.  One click?  No way.  The more 
information you try to pack into a fixed environment the more time you 
spend with the windows themselves.  I am very comfortable with Eclipse, 
the Altera suite, Visual Studio, and yes, even MATLAB.  IDEs have big 
advantages and for people who like them are a great approach to life, 
but I would much rather have a suite of tools that I can use as needed - 
and you MUST have the tools to use them in the IDE so the point is moot.

That said, in Microsoft Windows an IDE is the only way to fly.  Command 
line interfaces are just too clunky and the windows system too inflexible.

I am unable to understand the invective over this topic.

Bob