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Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Building hardware / Paparazzi Hardware CVS content

From: Paul Cox
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Building hardware / Paparazzi Hardware CVS contents
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 16:26:54 -0800

Thanks for the welcome.

My experience has been with OrCAD, but will be getting familiar with Eagle for this since that appears to be the group's choice of tool. For future changes I'm interested in using geda as those tools seem to be quite capable and completely open source. For now I'll work to get up to speed with Eagle and then will determine whether I can handle finishing the tiny4l_18_1_99 design or if I should just fab the standard v2.11 design to get going.

Is there any sort of bug tracker setup for paparazzi? Seems like it might be useful for keeping up with sw/hw issues.

On the IMU, panelizing the various little PCBs should let you have the board house only build one PCB (which you can then cut yourself) and reduce build cost. Maybe still the cost isn't much less than the sparkfun and other solutions though, I haven't looked.

One thing that isn't apparent is how many folks are using thermopiles vs. IMU, if both are supported well in sw, and the advantages/disadvantages/tradeoffs (beyond the obvious indoor/outdoor limitations). The thermopiles aren't cheap (neither are the gyros) so curious what which provides what in terms of overall price/performance. I'd be interested to hear the accounts of users on that. Also, does it ever make sense to have thermo and IMU on an aircraft or is that overkill?

The booz project seems to have a functioning IMU, the design is in SVN and the videos do seem to show it functioning (on a quadrotor). Adding a few things back to it (like servo driver) might turn it into Tiny with IMU (and quad rotor support -- or dual/tilt rotor a la Osprey?).


Message: 3
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:31:50 -0800
From: David Conger <address@hidden>
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Building hardware / Paparazzi Hardware
       CVS     contents
To: address@hidden
Message-ID: <address@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Paul,

Welcome. Wow, a welcome addition if you can work on new designs. I
have someone I work with who offered to work on designs (4+ layers
with higher desity...think inside a cell phone type work..that's what
he does). Unfortunately he was too busy or just a flake but when I
pressed him to actually do it he became scarce.

I can speak to "popular" and issues/question I see posted.

1. "popular" is simply more about "new" and "available". TWOG is new
so it's most "popular" right now. Before that was Tiny so it was
"popular" before TWOG. Yes, both designs broke from the tradition of
making the design in an easily obtained CAD (Eagle) and used an
expensive and not easy to get Protel version. Not sure if it's even
possible to get that version of Protel any longer.

2. issues are EFI mostly and power. Power for the servos and modems
and sensors. The 3.3v bus is critical as the LPC is powered off it.
The 5v is for servos and other general power needs (i.e. sensors etc.).

Well, Tiny2.11 best I can tell was designed to be easier to FAB and
assemble and at the same time provide more power (fundamentally). At
the expense of EFI considerations. However, to FAB 4+ layers and
assemble 402 sized components is not an issue for me.

So selfishly I am interested most in getting that 4-layer Tiny2.11
going. It's in the in_progress under tiny4l_18_1_99 I think that would
be extremely popular. It seems to have the best features of the
Tiny2.11 and address the EFI issue. Maybe going to 402 might help
reduce size/weight as well.

The Wiki has a "wish list" for hardware. Take a review of this:

Also the IMU in the in_progress (imu_3j) is not tested and maybe
obsolete. The 4-layer boards for all of it add up quickly when you
quote having them fabricated. You can buy for roughly the same cost
now 6DOF IMU from either Sparkfun or other sources now. If you could
make it a 2 layer for the daughter cards and 4-layer for the main
board that would help a lot with costs to FAB the PCB (that's what
stopped me from having them made). Also according to Prof. Warmers the
design is not tested. It should work but I don't believe anyone has
ever had the PCB FAB and assembled one.

I am only speaking from my own experiences. I'm sure others will jump
in (and hope they do). Can you also keep with the Eagle CAD design?
It's a real pain for me not having protel and not being able to create
my own Gerber files for the Tiny2.11 and TWOG along with the new IR
sensors. When I go to have them FAB and assembled it seems there are
things missing from the provided gerbers for those (such as data
required for the pick-and-place programming).

Again, welcome, that's great you are offering to help with the designs.

-David Conger

On Dec 3, 2008, at 4:55 PM, Paul Cox wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm getting started with paparazzi by building the necessary
> hardware. I see the wiki has some zip files of gerbers and design
> files, but since my goal is to one day work on the design I'm
> looking at CVS instead. Looking through the "hw" directory in CVS is
> a little overwhelming so as a first step I'd like to understand what
> all is there and in what condition it is in (i.e. flag anything
> obsolete, outdated, abandoned, etc). I'm listing all sch/brd files I
> see in the hw directory along with some notes. Please feel free to
> add whatever notes or info you may have and I'll be glad to collect
> the info and place back into READMEs or wiki:
> Mo/Yr | File                          |   Notes
> 0707 antenna/ant_2G45_air.brd - Some sort of 2.4GHz antenna maybe?
> 1007 controller/classix.sch & .brd - dual ARM board with Gumstix
> connector
> 0806 controller/tiny_0_99.sch & .brd - old tiny versrion (kept for
> reference?)
> 1006 controller/tiny13_1_1.sch & .brd - old tiny versrion (kept for
> reference?)
> 0606 controller/tiny_proto.sch & .brd - old tiny versrion (kept for
> reference?)
> 1006 controller/TODO_classix TODO_tiny TODO_tiny13 - revision
> history without much info on dates and rev numbers
> 1106 in_progress/4P_sarantel_test.sch & .brd - gps board (not placed
> or routed)
> 1207 in_progress/adxrs300_breakout.sch & .brd - gyro breakout board
> 0907 in_progress/AMI_601.sch & .brd - 1.8V reg and an I2C device?
> (servoflo doesn't seem to show they make accelerometers anymore?)
> 0706 in_progress/ant_2_4.sch & .brd -
> 0707 in_progress/ant_868(_2, _3).sch & .brd
> 0207 in_progress/ant_track_2.sch & .brd - Some sort of "antenna
> tracker": Micro, FTDI USB, SPI magnetometer, motor drivers
> 0306 in_progress/blmc.sch & .brd - BLDC motor controller using Atmel
> AT90S2313S,  LM339, BC847, SI4420N/4425P (incomplete routing)
> 0306 in_progress/blmc_konze.sch & .brd - BLDC motor controller using
> Atmel AT90S2313S,  LM339, BC847, SI4420N/4425P (incomplete routing)
> 0607 in_progress/blmc_laurent.sch & .brd - BLDC motor controller
> using Atmel ATMEGA128-A, LM317, FTDI/USB, BC847, FETs?
> 0306 in_progress/blmc_m8.sch & .brd - BLMC using Mega8 (incomplete
> layout)
> 0406 in_progress/blmc_m8_dev.sch & .brd - BLMC using Mega8
> 0406 in_progress/blmc_quad.sch & .brd - junk (looks like someone
> started something and gave up)
> 0208 in_progress/booz_gps.sch & .brd - GPS, antenna, and 3.3V
> regulator
> 1107 in_progress/boozrotor_v1.2.sch & .brd - LPC4148?, regs, SD
> socket (layout not quite complete)
> 0107 in_progress/current_probe.sch & .brd - AD8552 op-amp (somehow
> used to measure current?)
> 1106 in_progress/dc_controller_1.sch & .brd - MEGA8-based mot. cont.
> with CC (constant current?) motor driver IC
> 1106 in_progress/dc_controller_2.sch & .brd - (layout incomplete)
> 1206 in_progress/dc_controller_3.sch & .brd - MEGA8-based mot. cont.
> (looks to be layed out for attachement direct to small brushed DC
> motor)
> 1106 in_progress/g47_ctl.sch & .brd - LPC2148 and XBee (layout
> incomplete)
> 0706 in_progress/gorrazoptere_v1.sch & .brd - mega128 for Fly by
> wire, LPC2148 for Autopilot, XBee, gumstix connector, USB Hub?
> (layout incomplete)
> 0706 in_progress/gorrazoptere_v0_9x.sch & .brd - mega128, BLMC, modem
> 0306 in_progress/imu_2_xy.sch & .brd - LPC2148 & gyro (layout
> incomplete)
> 0907 in_progress/imu_3j_xy.sch & .brd - LPC2148, gyro,
> accelerometers, SPI magnetometer and ADC (JTAG connector!)
> 0907 in_progress/imu_3j_xz.sch & .brd - gyro board for above
> 0907 in_progress/imu_3j_yz.sch & .brd - gyro board for above
> 1206 in_progress/imu_interface.sch & .brd little pcb with 6v
> regulator and USB connector
> 1105 in_progress/imu_xy.sch & .brd - dual LPC2148, gumstix
> connector, gyro, accelerometers, magnetometers, regulators (layout
> incomplete)
> 1105 in_progress/imu_xz.sch & .brd - gyro board for above
> 1105 in_progress/imu_yz.sch & .brd - gyro board for above
> 0506 in_progress/ir_gyro.sch & .brd - IR sensors, gyros, and
> accelerometers with 3.3V reg. (layout incomplete)
> 0606 in_progress/ir_imu.sch & .brd - IR sensors, gyros, and
> accelerometers with 3.3V reg. (layout incomplete)
> 0606 in_progress/ir_imu_v.sch & .brd - IR sensors, gyros, and
> accelerometers with 3.3V reg. (layout incomplete)
> 0907 in_progress/ir_single_long.sch & .brd - Single axis IR board
> 0307 in_progress/ir_single_slim.sch & .brd - Single axis vertical IR
> board
> 0307 in_progress/LEA_18_1.sch & .brd - GPS board (layout incomplete)
> 0506 in_progress/lipo_connector.sch & .brd - tiny little PCB
> 1106 in_progress/motor_bench_1.sch & .brd - MEGA128, Gyros, XBee,
> magnetometers (layout incomplete)
> 0307 in_progress/motor_bench_lpc.sch & .brd - connector board with
> USB con and brushed motor driver
> 0907 in_progress/motor_bench_lpc_v1.1.sch & .brd - connector board
> with regulators
> 0207 in_progress/olimex_add_on.sch & .brd - (layout incomplete)
> 0207 in_progress/pth_supply.sch & .brd - 5V reg
> 1007 in_progress/pth_supply_servos_molex.sch & .brd - 5V reg and
> servo driver
> 0207 in_progress/pth_supply_servos.sch & .brd - 5V reg and servo
> driver
> 0107 in_progress/quad_ctl_094.sch & .brd - incomplete
> 0607 in_progress/quad_ctl_095.sch & .brd - incomplete
> 1106 in_progress/test_2620.sch & .brd - breakout board for some I2C
> sensor (avago ADNS2620 optical mouse IC?)
> 1205 in_progress/test_filter.sch & .brd - AD8552 dual op amp
> 0406 in_progress/test_usb_hub.sch & .brd - three port USB hub (no IC
> part number?)
> 0906 in_progress/tiny20_1_1.sch & .brd - LPC2148, GPS, antenna, 8x
> servo driver, regs
> 0307 in_progress/tiny20_1_2.sch & .brd - LPC2148, GPS, antenna, 8x
> servo driver, regs
> 0207 in_progress/tiny20_2.sch & .brd - (layout incomplete)
> 0708 in_progress/tiny4l_18_1_99.sch & .brd - (layout incomplete)
> 1105 in_progress/tiny_v.sch & .brd - (layout incomplete)
> 0106 in_progress/usb_flasher.sch & .brd - USB to UART board
> 0708 in_progress/vor_add_on.sch & .brd - USB to UART board (layout
> incomplete)
> 0607 in_progress/wi232_gnd_2.sch & .brd - (layout incomplete)
> 0707 in_progress/wi232_gnd_3.sch & .brd - some sort of wifi device
> with a USB to UART converter
> 0607 in_progress/wi232_gnd.sch & .brd - (layout incomplete)
> 0106 in_progress/xbee.sch & .brd - board with footprint and
> regulator for xbee
> 1105 in_progress/lpc_board.notes - notes
> 0606 in_progress/TODO_imu_3 - notes
> 0907 in_progress/imu3j.txt - notes on imu3j design
> 1205 in_progress/ - bom for something?
> 1105 misc/supply_L5973.sch & .brd - switching regulator board
> (vin: ? vout: ?)
> 0307 misc/supply_LM1117.sch & .brd - LDO regulator board (vin: ?
> vout: ?)
> 0706 sensors/gps_13.sch & .brd - regulator, GPS, and antenna board
> (silkscreen claims v0.90)
> 0307 sensors/gyro_adxr.sch & .brd - gyro breakout board (placement/
> routing incomplete)
> 0307 sensors/gyro_idg.sch & .brd - gyro breakout board
> 0606 sensors/imu_3_xy.sch & .brd- gyro z, supplies, MCU, SPI
> magnetometer, MAX1167 SPI ADC
> 0606 sensors/imu_3_xz.sch & .brd - single gyro x
> 0606 sensors/imu_3_yz.sch & .brd - single gyro y
> 0506 sensors/ir_dual.sch & .brd - AD8552 dual op-amp with cons for
> four sensors (dual axis)
> 1105 sensors/ir_single.sch & .brd - AD8551 op-amp with cons for two
> sensors (single axis)
> 0606 sensors/TODO_imu_3 - errata for imu_3 (have these issues been
> fixed?)
> It may make sense to move much of the files from in_progress
> somewhere else. Maybe create a "complete" directory for the designs
> that are considered safe to fab, and an "archive" directory for
> things that have been abandoned or superceded by some better design.
> The wiki shows the most popular current hardware is Tiny v2.11, TWOG
> v1.00, IR, IMU. Please let me know if I should build these using the
> following files from CVS or if someone has more recent files:
> Tiny v2.11: in_progress/tiny20_1_2.sch & .brd (I will add gnd and
> pwr planes for good design practice and reduction of noise, and
> probably a footprint for XBeePro)
> TWOG v1.00: where is this? (I see protel files on the wiki only, is
> it not in CVS?)
> IR: sensors/ir_dual.sch & .brd
> IMU: in_progress/imu_3j_xy.sch & .brd (also xz and yz, of course)
> Any other hardware that I should build while I'm at it? Also, I see
> some brushless DC motor controller designs, can anyone comment on
> how well those worked?
> Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> Paparazzi-devel mailing list
> address@hidden

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