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Re: [Phpgroupware-developers] Project Structure

From: ceb
Subject: Re: [Phpgroupware-developers] Project Structure
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 02:48:11 +0200 (CEST)

first off, the reason why i subscribed the proposal is, it sure has to
change something in the structure of the project. but i dont see this text
as the final version of a guideline, just a good base to start discussing.

the areas where i see the need of a change are:

- assigning all of our code to the fsf. i was thinking this happened
  already when we became a gnu package. now i have to realise, it
  didn't. :(
  for me it was one of the reasons to agree becoming a gnu package,
  and as far as i remember it was discussed and agreed with concerning
  support in a law case. so i ask why it didn't happen already when we
  became a gnu package? without the fsf owns the code they can't support
  us in law cases...
- also the holder of the domain should be the fsf.
- all project important areas should be administrated by a group of ppl,
  like the server, where the website is running, or any access to our cvs
- to vote for the leadership team makes much sense to me, also the voting
  for changes/features. but this all has to be worked out some more, imo.
  i think its abit oversized, to handle the time of presense/absense
  exactly by month etc... we should decide it in the special case. also, to let 
  devels vote in all areas, doesnt seem to be a good idea. there should be
  groups - like already mentioned in some other mail (api, apps,
  translation etc...) - and the members of this groups vote in their

now some responding...

On Tue, 13 May 2003, Dan Kuykendall wrote:

> Chris Weiss wrote:
> > Dan Kuykendall (address@hidden) wrote:
> >
> >>I will pull back control of the project.....
> >
> >
> > Please do!  You have a knack for keeping moral up and things moving along, 
> > but the
> > last year or so you have been mostly absent and the project has suffered.
> I have been trying to arrange my schedule to allow more phpGW time.
> Right now its a bit hard.
> > As for past contributions, even you have admited that a lot of the code was 
> > a
> > learning experience and you now see that large chunks of it need rewritten 
> > for
> > performance and security.  How exactly is this to be done when the ones 
> > that wrote
> > it do not participate?
> None of us is stopping anyone else from trying to rewrite these things.
> In fact I wrote a new ACL and submitted what I had. Anyone that felt the
> need could have picked it up and continued with it. I will continue with
> it as soon as I can.
> > How do i define participate?  commit something.  answer emails on the list 
> > other
> > than political responses.  Follow through with what you say you will do or 
> > pass on
> > the permissions so someone else can.  What am i talking about?  Savahna 
> > issues that
> > didn't get resolved that you have access to and no one else.  We had to beg 
> > on the
> > savahna guys to do it.  acl2.  xslt.  database....when where you planning 
> > on sharing
> > your discoveries about PEAR?  like it doesn't affect us or anything...
> My xslt plans and my acl2 are all in cvs. I commited them for everyone
> to see. I just could complete the entire process due to time. As far as
> the savannah issues, the savannah hackers are the ones that do most of
> the stuff. I happen to have some special permissions for controlling who
> has access to commit to the API. Thats the only real reason for the
> extra permissions I have.

the xslt plans are our plans ;), and ralfbecker and me were realizing it
in head. The xslt framework in head is working, and ppl use it already in their
apps. and at all, i do not see a reason to mention this here... this is
not the matter of our discussion right now, to find out, who should
maintain what area of code but doesnt...

in general it is not Dans fault, some ideas in head arent worked out yet.
if someone has a need for a special feature, he just should start working
on it.

Dans contributions in the past months mostly were ideas and suggestions
for head development. he didn't contribute alot by writing code or talking
to ppl, but this isnt a reason to say, he isn't doing anything anymore.
for me, to participate by ideas is as important than writing code to
realize them...

> > Dan, you have not been leading the project.  Dave has.  One of thing I've 
> > always
> > liked about his project is that has been about making things work, doing 
> > the job.
> > Now you want to sit in the shadows doing who knows what and won't give 
> > those who are
> > doing the job the power to do it to the best they can.
> I know Dave is leading right now. I have given him moral support and not
> really stood in his way. If I have, show me how. I gave him admin rights
> to the savannah project, and shell access to the website. Theres not
> much more I can do to allow him to help lead the project. Ceb is also
> involved, so she also is trying to help lead the project.

this is wrong. Dave is not leading the project, like Dan was not
leading it alone. there always were and are some more ppl involved, and i
have to ask, is it just important for one how many time someone spends in
irc talking to ppl to notice this person? why noone notices ralfbeckers
work as a leader? he putted alot great ideas and stuff in the api, was
always there to help ppl in any way. also i always was present, working
and leading the project in the areas i am responsible for.

im really sick of this black-and white thinking. it is not true if one
says, Dan is not working anymore for the project. he is not active like he
has been some time ago, also there are problems to reach him, if its needed. but
this doesnt mean hes isn't doing anything anymore. like i mentioned above,
the project structure has to change, but i would like to discuss
objectivelly, and not the one is doing all and the otherone does
also that term of the leadership-team... jengo isnt active at all, but
commits some stuff from time to time without to take care on development
of other ppl etc. skeeter left the project, Dan is partially working :)
but i am here and working, so please stop talking about the
leadership-team isnt active anymore!
sorry about my ranting but this makes me really angry ...

grtx. ceb :)

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