Re: [Phpgroupware-developers] Project Structure - some progress

[Dan Kuykendall]

Jason Wies wrote:
> > A good example of why it may be useful for me to keep the trademark is 
> > that if a company wanted to hijack the project by putting staff into the 
> > project and basicly taking control by the system we are putting in 
> > place. I would be able to keep the project from being taken over by way 
> > of trademark ownership.
>
> I don't think that scenario is feasible.  If the trademark were assigned to
> the FSF, then no one could take control of it.  If the trademark were
> assigned to the project itself

Yes, the same protection is gained by the FSF owning the trademark. 
Other than me and teh FSF, there are no other choices. The trademark 
cannot be assigned to a "community", it can only be assigned to a legal 
entity, such as a person or a corporation.

> then a malicious company would have to a)
> wait up to 12 months for the elections to come around and b) get elected to
> four positions needed for a majority vote.  This situation is easily avoided
> by adding a rule that "no more than three representatives from the same
> company can sit on the CT at the same time".

Yes, I know the example is extreme and avoidable by other means, but I 
was just tossing it out there.

> > I will not use the trademark to simply get my way, or any such malicious 
> > actions. The ONLY time I will use it is if the project becomes something 
> > I could not be proud of and want to be involved with. In this case I 
> > would use the trademark and leverage to fork the project to allow phpGW 
> > to continue down a better path.
>
> I have to say this sounds like veto by another name.  In a community
> project, everyone has the ability to fork, but no one has the ability to
> kick everyone else out.  That is what makes the debates so productive;

If I kick everyone else out, the only thing that I would have is the 
name. The project would continue with a diff name. This has happened 
before in OSS/FS projects.
In a sense you are right. It is a veto by another name. I know I have 
ownership of the trademark and can decide to go against everyone else, 
and basicly do a fork and have those that want to follow me do so.

However, I am making a promise that this is not going to happen unless 
some extreme circumstances come about.

> everyone realizes that they have to agree to a single solution.  I trust Dan
> not to constantly threaten to kick everyone out, but I also know that anyone
> who is at odds with Dan in a technical debate would be restrained in what
> they say because they know Dan can pull the plug at any time.  I think if
> the project is going to be as productive as possible, everyone needs to feel
> completely free to express their ideas to everyone else and know that at the
> end of the day it is the will of the community that will decide.  And
> unfortunately I think that means giving the community control over trademark
> issues as well.

I do not want anyone to be restrained in what they say in a technical 
debate because they think I am a ticking time bomb. I am not. I have 
proven myself to be a reasonable person for several years of OSS/FS 
work. My reputation in the community is important to me, and if I were 
to act like a jerk and abuse the power of the trademark ownership, then 
I will rightful lose a great deal of respect in the OSS/FS community. I 
can also assume that the phpGW community would abandon me as well, and 
that a fork would happen that would have more support than mine.

Again, I am not going to change my mind. You can all either accept that 
you will have to trust me on this, or dont. If you feel you cannot even 
continue work on the project because I retain trademark ownership, then 
so be it.
Again, I have feel I have proven to be a reasonable person. I have been 
willing to step down from being a single leader and went with the 
formation of the core team. I am once again willing to let the core team 
be somewhat replaced by a more democratic solution. I want the project 
to succeed. I want the project to be fun and lively. I have worked hard 
to allow that to be the case.

If you still feel the trademark issue to be one that is a deal breaker, 
than so be it. I am not going to change my mind on this. Sorry

Dan