|
| From: | Michał Dubrawski |
| Subject: | Re: Re: PSPP CTABLES |
| Date: | Fri, 27 Jul 2018 01:00:45 +0200 |
There seem to be several SPSS output formats.
First, there's something really old (?) with an .spw extension. I
haven't looked at those at all and I don't have a corpus of them to
learn from, so PSPP won't support .spw files until those change.
Second, there are effectively two different subformats of .spv files.
Both of them wrap XML and binary members inside a .zip file. In the
older format, graphs and tables are both represented by ViZML XML. This
is a fairly awful way to represent a table, so the newer format switches
to a binary format for tables (SPSS calls this format "light"). There
are different sub-versions for that binary format, too. Currently my
reader understands the light table format (all versions I've run into)
and I'm working on the older format.
I haven't tried to make PSPP understand SPSS graphs. That's a lot more
work.
When this feature gets in, it's probably going to take several
iterations of bug reports and fixes, because I'm implementing it by
reading lots of .spv files and making sure that the reader supports
them. Even though it successfully reads the thousands of .spv files
I've collected, I imagine that there will be lots that it initially
cannot. For those, I hope that users will send them to me so that I can
add them to my corpus and fix the bugs. Other than those bugs, PSPP
should be able to open any .spv file, regardless of what procedures they
use.
Which graphics commands can't be called from macros?
Thanks,
Ben.
On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 07:24:18PM +0200, Michał Dubrawski wrote:
> Thank you Ben. I understand the context now. Good to hear that spv format
> will help. By the way does it mean that unlike SPSS which if I remember
> well cannot open spv created in older versions of SPSS, PSPP would be able
> to open any spv? Would it be only able to read spv with output from
> procedures that are also implemented in PSPP?
> One more thing I really hate how they made graphics commends which could
> not be called from macros - please don't go that way if you would like to
> implement it in PSPP someday :)
>
> W dniu czwartek, 26 lipca 2018 Ben Pfaff <address@hidden> napisał(a):
>
> > MULT RESPONSE might also benefit from the work I'm doing. I've looked
> > at MULT RESPONSE before, and one of the things that kept me from
> > implementing it is the output complexity. CROSSTABS also has very
> > complex output routines, to the extent the complexity of the output
> > comes close to overshadowing the complexity of the data analysis. MULT
> > RESPONSE is worse.
> >
> > But most of the complexity comes from how PSPP internally has no
> > systematic approach to displaying data as tables. (It does have decent
> > support for rendering tables into different formats, but not for
> > converting data into tables to be rendered.) The SPV format actually
> > points a good way forward on this point, so when the appropriate amount
> > of work is done, it should allow CROSSTABS to be nicer internally and
> > then a reasonable MULT RESPONSE implementation too.
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 09:56:17AM +0200, Michał Dubrawski wrote:
> > > Hi Ben,
> > >
> > > it is great to hear that you are working with spv output. I know that
> > they
> > > were changing it from version to version so it seem like quite a
> > challenge,
> > > but based on what challenges you have faced before when making PSPP
> > > compatible to SPSS I'm sure you will handle it :)
> > >
> > > CTABLES or Tables in the future will be very useful but I think that what
> > > would be most important for students, social sicentists, psychologists,
> > > market researchers or virtualy anyone who analyse any survey results
> > would
> > > be the possibility to display mrsets in one table, which could be done in
> > > SPSS with MULT RESPONSE command. Without it PSPP wouldn't be an option
> > to
> > > display survey results because almost all surveys have multi response
> > > questions. The only free alternative would be some packages in R which
> > are
> > > not as accessible (easy to use) as PSPP.
> > >
> > > Any way to display MRSETS in the PSPP output would be very valuable for a
> > > lot of people even if it would be a cross tabs extension allowing the
> > usage
> > > of mrsets in it or something like that. When people graduate from
> > > psychology, sociology, social science or pedagogics departments they have
> > > knowledge how to build a surveys - there are a lot of tools that allow
> > them
> > > to collect data via online surveys, but when it comes to displaying the
> > > results in tables for the reports they all have a software problem
> > because
> > > many non-profits and startups cannot afford SPSS + Custom Tables
> > licenses,
> > > and from my experience that is exactly the software they know how to use
> > > because of their Universities.
> > >
> > > That said, thanks again to Ben and all the developers and all other
> > people
> > > involved with PSPP project - you have done tremendous work so far.
> > >
> > > Michał Dubrawski,
> > >
> > >
> > > > Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 08:48:33 -0700
> > > > From: Ben Pfaff <address@hidden>
> > > > To: Alan Mead <address@hidden>
> > > > Cc: "address@hidden" <address@hidden>
> > > > Subject:
> > > >
> > > > Re: PSPP CTABLES
> > > > Message-ID: <20180725154833.GF18660@sigabrt.benpfaff.org >
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> > > >
> > > > I think it's likely that I'll change PSPP to use the same output model.
> > > > One reason that it differed until now is simply that it wasn't clear to
> > > > me how SPSS really modeled output. The documentation on it is pretty
> > > > muddy.
> > > >
> > > > I've now got code that reads and understands most .spv files just fine.
> > > > I'm still working on reading the oldest kind of .spv files, which use a
> > > > really funny way to encode tables.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 10:32:11AM -0500, Alan Mead wrote:
> > > > > FWIW, I'm excited that you're working on reading SPV format. I had
> > > > > assumed that the implicit output model might preclude compatibility.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Alan
> > > > >
> > > > > On 7/24/2018 4:30 PM, Ben Pfaff wrote:
> > > > > > There might be some small hope here because I've been spending a
> > lot of
> > > > > > time lately working to make PSPP understand SPSS's .spv output file
> > > > > > format, so that it can read (and write?) it directly. Implicit in
> > that
> > > > > > format is an understanding of the SPSS output model, which seems
> > to be
> > > > > > entangled quite a bit with the CTABLES syntax. It might therefore
> > lead
> > > > > > someday to CTABLES implementation (but not soon).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 09:21:11PM +0000, Crichton, Ronald wrote:
> > > > > >> I asked about this a few years ago. I gather it would be
> > difficult.
> > > > Mind you, I used TABLES in SPSS in about 1990 and got to quite like it
> > and
> > > > used it a lot. So, here we are in 2018 and I use CTABLES in SPSS, and
> > can?t
> > > > get the hang of it, at least not much more than the basic usage of it.
> > > > Can?t stand it. I long for the old TABLES function. Not available in
> > SPSS.
> > > > So, here?s the thing: perhaps PSPP should develop its own version of
> > TABLES
> > > > with just the basics, without trying to emulate SPSS because they have
> > > > stuffed up something that used to be quite good.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> From: Pspp-users [mailto:pspp-users-bounces+ronald.crichton =
> > > > address@hidden] On Behalf Of Jakub ?krob?nek
> > > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 24 July 2018 6:29 PM
> > > > > >> To: address@hidden
> > > > > >> Subject: PSPP CTABLES
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Hi, I would like to ask if there is any progression in CTABLES
> > > > implementation to PSPP. I read some threads (http://pspp-users.gnu.
> > > > narkive.com/r32JwdwI/what-features-of-custom-tables-
> > > > ctables-are-most-important) but they seems dead. Any suggestion?
> > > > > >> Kind regards
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Jacob
> > > > > >>
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> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > Alan D. Mead, Ph.D.
> > > > > President, Talent Algorithms Inc.
> > > > >
> > > > > science + technology = better workers
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.alanmead.org
> > > > >
> > > > > "You're an interesting species. An interesting mix.
> > > > > You're capable of such beautiful dreams, and such
> > > > > horrible nightmares. You feel so lost, so cut off,
> > > > > so alone, only you're not. See, in all our
> > > > > searching, the only thing we've found that makes
> > > > > the emptiness bearable, is each other."
> > > > >
> > > > > -- Carl Sagan, Contact
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
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