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Re: [Qemu-block] [Qemu-devel] [PATCH 4/6] dirty-bitmaps: clean-up bitmap

From: Dr. David Alan Gilbert
Subject: Re: [Qemu-block] [Qemu-devel] [PATCH 4/6] dirty-bitmaps: clean-up bitmaps loading and migration logic
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 10:29:08 +0100
User-agent: Mutt/1.10.0 (2018-05-17)

* Denis V. Lunev (address@hidden) wrote:
> On 08/01/2018 09:55 PM, Dr. David Alan Gilbert wrote:
> > * Denis V. Lunev (address@hidden) wrote:
> >> On 08/01/2018 08:40 PM, Dr. David Alan Gilbert wrote:
> >>> * John Snow (address@hidden) wrote:
> >>>> On 08/01/2018 06:20 AM, Dr. David Alan Gilbert wrote:
> >>>>> * John Snow (address@hidden) wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> <snip>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I'd rather do something like this:
> >>>>>> - Always flush bitmaps to disk on inactivate.
> >>>>> Does that increase the time taken by the inactivate measurably?
> >>>>> If it's small relative to everything else that's fine; it's just I
> >>>>> always worry a little since I think this happens after we've stopped the
> >>>>> CPU on the source, so is part of the 'downtime'.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dave
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Dr. David Alan Gilbert / address@hidden / Manchester, UK
> >>>>>
> >>>> I'm worried that if we don't, we're leaving behind unusable, partially
> >>>> complete files behind us. That's a bad design and we shouldn't push for
> >>>> it just because it's theoretically faster.
> >>> Oh I don't care about theoretical speed; but if it's actually unusably
> >>> slow in practice then it needs fixing.
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >> This is not "theoretical" speed. This is real practical speed and
> >> instability.
> >> EACH IO operation can be performed unpredictably slow and thus with
> >> IO operations in mind you can not even calculate or predict downtime,
> >> which should be done according to the migration protocol.
> > We end up doing some IO anyway, even ignoring these new bitmaps,
> > at the end of the migration when we pause the CPU, we do a
> > bdrv_inactivate_all to flush any outstanding writes; so we've already
> > got that unpredictable slowness.
> >
> > So, not being a block person, but with some interest in making sure
> > downtime doesn't increase, I just wanted to understand whether the
> > amount of writes we're talking about here is comparable to that
> > which already exists or a lot smaller or a lot larger.
> > If the amount of IO you're talking about is much smaller than what
> > we typically already do, then John has a point and you may as well
> > do the write.
> > If the amount of IO for the bitmap is much larger and would slow
> > the downtime a lot then you've got a point and that would be unworkable.
> >
> > Dave
> This is not theoretical difference.
> For 1 Tb drive and 64 kb bitmap granularity the size of bitmap is
> 2 Mb + some metadata (64 Kb). Thus we will have to write
> 2 Mb of data per bitmap.

OK, this was about my starting point; I think your Mb here is Byte not
Bit; so assuming a drive of 200MByte/s, that's 200/2=1/100th of a
second = 10ms; now 10ms I'd say is small enough not to worry about downtime
increases, since the number we normally hope for is in the 300ms ish

> For some case there are 2-3-5 bitmaps
> this we will have 10 Mb of data.

OK, remembering I'm not a block person can you just explain why
you need 5 bitmaps?
But with 5 bitmaps that's 50ms, that's starting to get worrying.

> With 16 Tb drive the amount of
> data to write will be multiplied by 16 which gives 160 Mb to
> write. More disks and bigger the size - more data to write.

Yeh and that's going on for a second and way too big.

(Although that feels like you could fix it by adding bitmaps on your
bitmaps hierarchically so you didn't write them all; but that's
getting way more complex).

> Above amount should be multiplied by 2 - x Mb to be written
> on source, x Mb to be read on target which gives 320 Mb to
> write.
> That is why this is not good - we have linear increase with the
> size and amount of disks.
> There is also some thoughts on normal guest IO. Theoretically
> we can think on replaying IO on the target closing the file
> immediately or block writes to changed areas and notify
> target upon IO completion or invent other fancy dances.
> At least we think right now on these optimizations for regular
> migration paths.
> The problem right that such things are not needed now for CBT
> but will become necessary and pretty much useless upon
> introducing this stuff.

I don't quite understand the last two paragraphs.

However, coming back to my question; it was really saying that
normal guest IO during the end of the migration will cause
a delay; I'm expecting that to be fairly unrelated to the size
of the disk; more to do with workload; so I guess in your case
the worry is the case of big large disks giving big large


> Den
Dr. David Alan Gilbert / address@hidden / Manchester, UK

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