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Re: [Qemu-devel] Re: [RFC] qapi: events in QMP


From: Anthony Liguori
Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] Re: [RFC] qapi: events in QMP
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 13:34:11 -0600
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On 02/14/2011 12:34 PM, Luiz Capitulino wrote:
On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 08:39:11 -0600
Anthony Liguori<address@hidden>  wrote:

On 02/14/2011 06:45 AM, Luiz Capitulino wrote:
So the question is: how does the schema based design support extending
commands or events? Does it require adding new commands/events?

Well, let me ask you, how do we do that today?

Let's say that I want to add a new parameter to the `change' function so
that I can include a salt parameter as part of the password.

The way we'd do this today is by checking for the 'salt' parameter in
qdict, and if it's not present, use a random salt or something like that.
You likely want to do what you did before. Of course that you have to
consider if what you're doing is extending an existing command or badly
overloading it (like change is today), in this case you'll want to add
a new command instead.

But yes, the use-case here is extending an existing command.

However, if I'm a QMP client, how can I tell whether you're going to
ignore my salt parameter or actually use it?  Nothing in QMP tells me
this today.  If I set the salt parameter in the `change' command, I'll
just get a success message.
I'm sorry?

{ "execute": "change", "arguments": { "device": "vnc", "target": "password", "arg": "1234", 
"salt": "r1" } }
{"error": {"class": "InvalidParameter", "desc": "Invalid parameter 'salt'", "data": 
{"name": "salt"}}}

So I'm supposed to execute the command, and if execution fails, drop the new parameter? If we add a few optional parameters, does that mean I have to try every possible combination of parameters?

Even if we expose a schema, but leave things as-is, having to parse the
schema as part of a function call is pretty horrible,
That's a client implementation detail, they are not required to do it
as part of a function call.

But let me ask, if we don't expose a schema, how will clients be able to
query available commands/events and their parameters?

We need to expose the schema, I'm not saying we shouldn't. But we don't today.

You're arguing that we should extend commands by adding new parameters. I'm saying that's a bad interface. If we need to change a command, we should introduce a new command. It's a well understood mechanism for maintaining compatibility (just about every C library does exactly this).

particularly if
distros do silly things like backport some optional parameters and not
others.  If those optional parameters are deeply nested in a structure,
it's even worse.
Why would they do this? I mean, if distros (or anyone else shipping qemu)
goes that deep on changing the wire protocol they are on their own, why
would we want to solve this problem?

It's not at all unreasonable for a distro to backport a new QMP command. If all modifications are discrete commands, compatibility is easy to preserve, however if a distro does backporting and we end up with a frankenstein command, compatibility will be an issue.

OTOH, if we introduce a new command to set the password with a salt, it
becomes very easy for the client to support.  The do something as simple as:

if qmp.has_command("vnc-set-password-with-salt"):
      qmp.vnc_set_password_with_salt('foobar', 'X*')
else:
      window.set_weak_security_icon(True)
      qmp.vnc_set_password('foobar')

Now you could answer, hey, we can add capabilities then those
capabilities can quickly get out of hand.
Adding one command per new argument has its problems too and it's even
worse with events, as clients will have to be changed to handle a
new event just because of a parameter addition.

Yes, but it's an extremely well understood way to design compatible APIs.

Look, although I did _not_ check any code yet, your description of the QAPI
looks really exciting. I'm not against it, what bothers me though is this
number of small limitations we're imposing to the wire protocol.

Why don't we make libqmp internal only? This way we're free to change it
whatever we want.

libqmp is a test of how easy it is to use QMP from an external application. If we can't keep libqmp stable, then that means tools like libvirt will always have a hard time using QMP.

Proper C support is important. We cannot make it impossible to write a useful C client API.

Regards,

Anthony Liguori





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