From slamb@slamb.org Fri Feb 01 15:44:39 2002 Received: from cairo.zsat.net ([64.6.64.200]) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16WkY2-0007oL-00 for ; Fri, 01 Feb 2002 15:44:39 -0500 Received: by cairo.zsat.net (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 61F87A6A04; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 14:44:28 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cairo.zsat.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59C46A2C04 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 14:44:28 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 14:44:28 -0600 (CST) From: Scott Lamb To: Subject: PostgreSQL login bug? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, Logging into to PostgreSQL from GNUe Designer 0.1.1 on win32 does not work well for me. I've got a connections.conf entry with provider "pypgsql" pointed at the correct host/dbname. First, when I try to connect to the server without the correct pg_hba.conf entry, logins fail as I'd expect, but it doesn't pop up any sort of error message. I would expect it to give something like this: No pga_hba.conf entry for host blah, user blah, database blah Other clients (and the server logs) give this message and it's quite helpful. GNUe designer just pops up the login entry again, which it could know is doomed to failure. Second, it's submitting the wrong username. I'm "slamb" on the database server and "lambs" on the Windows desktop I'm using. It ignores whatever I type into the username section of the login box and gives "lambs" to the database server. I know because I see this in the server logs: Password authentication failed for user 'lambs' Sorry, no patch. I wasn't sure how to set up the development environment on Win32 and have no Linux desktop here at work. Thanks, Scott Lamb From jens@unfaehig.de Sat Feb 02 02:38:08 2002 Received: from mailout07.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.83]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16WukS-0004rx-00 for ; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 02:38:08 -0500 Received: from fwd09.sul.t-online.de by mailout07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16WukB-0007jv-00; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 08:37:51 +0100 Received: from debian (510013902217-0001@[80.135.9.54]) by fmrl09.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 16Wujx-1FGT0yC; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 08:37:37 +0100 Received: from jens by debian with local (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16Wuk0-0008ML-00; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 08:37:40 +0100 To: Derek Neighbors Cc: Subject: Re: Comments on the HR Draft References: Organization: eNode Internet Services GbR, Kaltenkirchen, DE From: "Jens =?iso-8859-1?q?M=FCller?=" Date: 02 Feb 2002 08:34:35 +0100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 19 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Sender: 510013902217-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Derek Neighbors writes: > class former_emp: > Since you are capturing this data, do you want to include pay information > from last job? And would you limit this to a single former employer? or > during the hire process would you catalog all the data during reference > checking? If so would you want to list who you talked to at that company > and when and what they had to say about the employee. Please have privacy in mind when designing Gnue. E.g., about "talking to the former employer": The former employer writes a report for his employee, and that shoulb be it. I doubt he _may_ give information to the new employer of his employee. Having privacy laws in mind will be important if Gnue should be put on the European market, as European privacy laws are more strict than US ones (see also the Safe Harbor model). From derek@gnue.org Sat Feb 02 10:24:59 2002 Received: from mail.libertydistribution.com ([65.101.4.210]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16X22F-0005mQ-00 for ; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 10:24:59 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D95CE1CC5E3; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 08:24:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from gnue.org (cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net [24.221.112.50]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82E051CC596; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 08:24:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3C5C0625.10004@gnue.org> Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 08:30:45 -0700 From: "Derek A. Neighbors" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20010917 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jens =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=FCller?= Cc: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: Comments on the HR Draft References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > > >>class former_emp: >>Since you are capturing this data, do you want to include pay information >>from last job? And would you limit this to a single former employer? or >>during the hire process would you catalog all the data during reference >>checking? If so would you want to list who you talked to at that company >>and when and what they had to say about the employee. >> > > >Please have privacy in mind when designing Gnue. > >E.g., about "talking to the former employer": The former employer >writes a report for his employee, and that shoulb be it. I doubt he >_may_ give information to the new employer of his employee. > >Having privacy laws in mind will be important if Gnue should be put on >the European market, as European privacy laws are more strict than US >ones (see also the Safe Harbor model). > Good points. I was not saying GNUe would or wouldn't have this functionality, I was merely asking for the specification submitted to be more clearly defined in this area. I am not of a Human Resources background, but I would be suprised if companies kept any information on prior job history on an employee other than hand jotted down notes from reference checking or letters from past employers. -Derek From derek@gnue.org Sat Feb 02 11:16:17 2002 Received: from mail.libertydistribution.com ([65.101.4.210]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16X2pt-0001kx-00 for ; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 11:16:17 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3C1F51CC59C; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 09:16:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from gnue.org (cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net [24.221.112.50]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DABF1CC599; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 09:16:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3C5C122B.9000503@gnue.org> Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 09:22:03 -0700 From: "Derek A. Neighbors" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20010917 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Rosenberg Cc: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: GEAS database error References: <20020130.13401900@lnx.AbsoluteESolutions.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Richard, Has anyone answered this for you yet? Richard Rosenberg wrote: >Hello All. . . >Everything has gone (relatively) smoothly up to this point. . .however >when I run autogen.sh in the geas/src directory I get an error saying >that 'no backend database can be found'. >I have tried running './configure --with-postgresql. . .' specifying the >path to postgresql data (in my case, /var/lib/pgsql/data) and the build >option = 'localhost'. When I run it through ./configure, I get what might >be a more discreet message, telling me that libpq-fe.h cannot be located. >There is no object with that name on my system, though I have seen >messages referring to it in the list archives. I have installed all of >the postgresql 7.1.3 packages I could get my hands on. I have initialized >the database, created a user (hacker, w/no password), created a database >(empty) called 'gnue', and manually started the postmaster using the '-i' >switch and even tried specifying the port. I can succesfully connect to >the 'gnue' database a few different ways at the console, using either the >'postgres' logon or using the 'hacker' account I set up. >I am running Redhat 7.1, PostgreSQL 7.1.3, and Python 2.1. >I have a few 'libpq*' objects around, but no libpq-fe.h. Any assistance >is greatly appreciated. >Richard > libpq-fe.h should be in the PostGRES 'devel' packages. Make sure you have those installed. dneighbo@latitude:~$ rpm -qa | grep postgres postgresql-server-7.0.3-2 postgresql-python-7.0.3-2 postgresql-odbc-7.0.3-2 postgresql-devel-7.0.3-2 postgresql-7.0.3-2 dneighbo@latitude:~$ postgresql-devel-7.x.x-x should be where it resides... In fact you can find it here (http://rpmfind.net//linux/RPM/redhat/7.2/i386/postgresql-devel-7.1.3-2.i386.html) and it confirms that it contains libpq-fe.h -derek From derek@gnue.org Sat Feb 02 11:20:29 2002 Received: from mail.libertydistribution.com ([65.101.4.210]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16X2tx-0001q1-00 for ; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 11:20:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with SMTP id F20131CC5E3; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 09:20:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from gnue.org (cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net [24.221.112.50]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 745401CC599; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 09:20:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3C5C1326.4020703@gnue.org> Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 09:26:14 -0700 From: "Derek A. Neighbors" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20010917 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott Lamb Cc: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: PostgreSQL login bug? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: You are correct there is a login bug w/ 0.1.1 on windows. We 'provide' the drivers for mysql, postgres etc so people dont have to download them and the packaged one we put for postgres has a bug. It is fixed in CVS. You can grab a snapshot from http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/ . I believe we plan on releasing a 0.1.2 soon because of this very bug. Thank you for pointing it out. -Derek Scott Lamb wrote: >Hi, > >Logging into to PostgreSQL from GNUe Designer 0.1.1 on win32 does not work >well for me. I've got a connections.conf entry with provider "pypgsql" >pointed at the correct host/dbname. > >First, when I try to connect to the server without the correct pg_hba.conf >entry, logins fail as I'd expect, but it doesn't pop up any sort of error >message. I would expect it to give something like this: > > No pga_hba.conf entry for host blah, user blah, database blah > >Other clients (and the server logs) give this message and it's quite >helpful. GNUe designer just pops up the login entry again, which it could >know is doomed to failure. > >Second, it's submitting the wrong username. I'm "slamb" on the database >server and "lambs" on the Windows desktop I'm using. It ignores whatever I >type into the username section of the login box and gives "lambs" to the >database server. I know because I see this in the server logs: > > Password authentication failed for user 'lambs' > >Sorry, no patch. I wasn't sure how to set up the development environment >on Win32 and have no Linux desktop here at work. > >Thanks, >Scott Lamb > > >_______________________________________________ >Gnue mailing list >Gnue@gnu.org >http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue > > From slamb@slamb.org Sat Feb 02 15:33:35 2002 Received: from cairo.zsat.net ([64.6.64.200]) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16X6qt-0005OX-00 for ; Sat, 02 Feb 2002 15:33:35 -0500 Received: by cairo.zsat.net (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 9C636A6A04; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 14:33:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cairo.zsat.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B31A2C04 for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2002 14:33:34 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 14:33:34 -0600 (CST) From: Scott Lamb To: Subject: RH72 install & bugs Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I just installed GNUe on my RedHat 7.2 desktop. There are a couple things I had to do beyond Keith Nasman's guide so PostgreSQL would work: - Install the "mx" package. I downloaded egenix-mx-base-2.0.3-py2.1_1.src.rpm from and built it with "rpm --rebuild", then installed /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386/egenix-mx-base-2.0.3-py2.1_1.i386.rpm The prebuilt i386 RPM on that page doesn't work on RedHat 7.2. It uses /usr/local/lib/python2.1 paths instead of /usr/lib/python2.1. - Install pypgsql 1.6. I downloaded pypgsql-1.6.tar.gz from . I changed include_dirs in setup.py to be "/usr/include/pgsql" and library_dirs to be "/usr/lib", corresponding to the dirs in RedHat's postgresql-devel RPM (which must be installed). Then "python2 setup.py install" In the process I ran into some bugs I don't know how to fix (in the latest CVS version): - Non-standard locales (try LC_ALL="en_US.UTF-8") don't work well. Lots of exceptions thrown and some important text missing. - The error message when a driver fails to load is not helpful. GConnections.py has this in _load_dbdriver: try: dbdriver = dyn_import("gnue.common.dbdrivers.%s" % (driver)) except ImportError, err: GDebug.printMesg(1,'ImportError importing driver %s' % (driver)) GDebug.printMesg(1,err) raise GDataObjects.ProviderNotSupportedError, \ "No database driver found for provider type '%s'" % driver ...but the GDebug lines don't actually work for some reason. I had to comment out the exception-catching stuff so I could see the original ImportError. - The property editor doesn't let me edit things. On Windows with the 29 Jan builds, I could edit pages, data sources, and blocks. I couldn't get it to associate a text entry box with a field...it just wouldn't let me edit the "field" property. On Linux with today's CVS, I can't even edit data sources. I can look at all of the properties but can't change anything. I can edit Pages and the Form but that's it. - On Windows with the 29 Jan build, I can't open existing GFD files in the designer. It says "I do not know what to do with a .gfd file!" Works fine with today's CVS on Linux, so either fixed or platform-specific. Well, I'm getting closer anyway. ;) Thanks, Scott Lamb From ajmitch@ajmitch.dhis.org Sat Feb 09 07:19:03 2002 Received: from smtp4.ihug.co.nz ([203.109.252.5]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16ZWT8-0007ne-00 for ; Sat, 09 Feb 2002 07:19:02 -0500 Received: from ajmitch.ajmitch.dhis.org (mail@p44-max4.dun.ihug.co.nz [203.173.236.236]) by smtp4.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA19091 for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2002 01:18:55 +1300 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp4.ihug.co.nz: Host mail@p44-max4.dun.ihug.co.nz [203.173.236.236] claimed to be ajmitch.ajmitch.dhis.org Received: from ajmitch by ajmitch.ajmitch.dhis.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16ZWSx-0000MY-00 for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2002 01:18:51 +1300 Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 01:18:51 +1300 From: Andrew Mitchell To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: MySQL db driver patch Message-ID: <20020209121850.GK18065@users.sourceforge.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mojUlQ0s9EVzWg2t" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --mojUlQ0s9EVzWg2t Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1" Content-Disposition: inline --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's a nice hack to fix my problems - now you can use designer wizards wi= th MySQL databases! (* ajmitch listens to the boos & hisses from the crowds) Yes, I know it's MySQL, but some poor people like I use it for various reas= ons ;) --=20 Andrew Mitchell --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="introspect.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Index: DBdriver.py =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D RCS file: /home/cvs/gnue/common/src/dbdrivers/mysql/DBdriver.py,v retrieving revision 1.10 diff -u -r1.10 DBdriver.py --- DBdriver.py 10 Jan 2002 20:59:18 -0000 1.10 +++ DBdriver.py 9 Feb 2002 12:14:23 -0000 @@ -22,14 +22,14 @@ # mysql/DBdriver.py # # DESCRIPTION: -# Driver to provide access to data vi MySQL +# Driver to provide access to data via MySQL # # NOTES: # Supports transactions if the MySQL server is compiled w/transaction supp= ort # (which it does NOT by default) =20 =20 -from string import lower +from string import lower, join import sys from gnue.common import GDebug, GDataObjects from gnue.common.dbdrivers._dbsig.DBdriver \ @@ -92,6 +92,111 @@ self._dataConnection.begin() except:=20 pass + + + # + # Schema (metadata) functions + # + + # Return a list of the types of Schema objects this driver provides + def getSchemaTypes(self): + return [('table','Table',1)] + + # Return a list of Schema objects + def getSchemaList(self, type=3DNone): + includeTables =3D (type in ('table','sources', None)) + + inClause =3D [] + if includeTables: + inClause.append ("'r'") + + # TODO: This excludes any system tables and views. Should it? + statement =3D "show tables;" + + cursor =3D self._dataConnection.cursor() + cursor.execute(statement) + + list =3D [] + =20 + for rs in cursor.fetchall(): + #print rs + list.append(GDataObjects.Schema(attrs=3D{'name':rs[0], + }, + getChildSchema=3Dself.__getFieldSchema)) + + cursor.close() + return list + + + # Find a schema object with specified name + def getSchemaByName(self, name, type=3DNone): + ## get list of fields in table + statement =3D "show tables;" + =20 + cursor =3D self._dataConnection.cursor() + cursor.execute(statement) + + for rs in cursor.fetchall(): + =20 + if rs and rs[0]=3D=3Dname: + schema =3D GDataObjects.Schema(attrs=3D{'name':rs[0]}, + getChildSchema=3Dself.__getFieldSchem= a) + cursor.close() + return schema + else: + =20 + schema =3D None + + cursor.close() + return schema + + # Get fields for a table + def __getFieldSchema(self, parent): + =20 + #statement =3D "select attname, pg_attribute.oid, typname, " + \ + # " attnotnull, atthasdef, atttypmod " + \ + # "from pg_attribute, pg_type " + \ + # "where attrelid =3D %d and " % (parent.id) + \ + # "pg_type.oid =3D atttypid and attnum >=3D 0" + \ + # "order by attnum" + + statement =3D "DESCRIBE %s;" % parent.name + + + cursor =3D self._dataConnection.cursor() + cursor.execute(statement) + =20 + list =3D [] + for rs in cursor.fetchall(): + #print rs + ##gotta split up the nativetype field + =20 + nType =3D rs[1].split('(')[0] + dLength =3D int( rs[1].split('(')[1][:-1] ) + #print "Type is %s with length %s" % (nType, dLength) + fieldRequired =3D rs[2] + =20 + attrs=3D{'name': rs[0], + 'type':'field', 'nativetype': nType, + 'required': fieldRequired} + + if nType in ('tinyint','smallint','mediumint','int', + 'integer','bigint','float','double', 'real', + 'decimal', 'numeric'): + attrs['datatype']=3D'number' + elif nType in ('date','datetime','year','time','timestamp'): + attrs['datatype']=3D'date' + else: + attrs['datatype']=3D'text' + + =20 + attrs['length'] =3D dLength + + list.append(GDataObjects.Schema(attrs=3Dattrs)) + + cursor.close() + return list + =20 class MySQL_DataObject_Object(MySQL_DataObject, \ DBSIG_DataObject_Object): --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1-- --mojUlQ0s9EVzWg2t Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8ZROq3cp5nGFDTdYRAnxIAJ96j61zdMPwWz4+KTRnv8TMC91gwQCghjd0 6+IdjkW6KfcJMsSsL35jW9o= =NIe7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --mojUlQ0s9EVzWg2t-- From reinhard@gnue.org Mon Feb 11 04:33:39 2002 Received: from warsl401pip8.highway.telekom.at ([195.3.96.117] helo=email02.aon.at) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16aCqB-00039d-00 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 04:33:39 -0500 Received: (qmail 109802 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2002 09:33:37 -0000 Received: from n809p002.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO tigger.localnet) ([62.47.45.2]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail2.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 11 Feb 2002 09:33:37 -0000 Subject: FOSDEM From: Reinhard Mueller To: gnue@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0 (Preview Release) Date: 11 Feb 2002 10:43:37 +0100 Message-Id: <1013420617.11089.6.camel@tigger> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello all, I wonder if someone involved with this project other than me is going to visit FOSDEM in Brussel this weekend. If so, please drop me a mail if you are interested in meeting to talk about GNUe, the life, the universe and everything :) Thanks, -- Reinhard Mueller GNU Enterprise project http://www.gnue.org From JDROUILLARD@twmi.rr.com Mon Feb 11 06:49:28 2002 Received: from mail.libertydistribution.com ([65.101.4.210]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16aExb-0007ZE-00 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 06:49:27 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A98AC1CC662 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 04:49:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from clmboh1-smtp4.columbus.rr.com (clmboh1-smtp4.columbus.rr.com [65.24.0.114]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE4C1CC661 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 04:49:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from sc0f3550 (nic-29-c99-187.twmi.rr.com [65.29.99.187]) by clmboh1-smtp4.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g1BBnc406136 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 06:49:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002201c1b2f1$c515fea0$0501a8c0@sc0f3550> From: "Joe Drouillard" To: Subject: Detroit, or S.E. Michigan Active Members Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 06:46:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: If there are any active members in or near or ever passing through Detroit, that would be interested in meeting to talk about the project, please let me know! I also travel regularly around Michigan and Southern Ontario. Joe Drouillard Novi, Michigan jdrouillard@twmi.rr.com From tboyle@rosehill.net Fri Feb 15 17:35:28 2002 Received: from deneb.cortland.com ([199.254.229.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16bqwx-0007fa-00 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:35:27 -0500 Received: from ppro180.rosehill.net (rosehill.net [207.229.102.93]) by deneb.cortland.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA00716 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:35:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: deneb.cortland.com: Host rosehill.net [207.229.102.93] claimed to be ppro180.rosehill.net Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020215144127.02e43660@popmail.cortland.com> X-Sender: tboyle@popmail.cortland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:41:47 -0800 To: gnue@gnu.org From: Todd Boyle Subject: Core Components Tech. Specification v. 1.8 released Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: The Core Components Technical Specification v1.8 was released yesterday. They are requesting CSG to move to stage 5 of the UN/CEFACT ODP development process, which is the public comment stage. The new spec. and announcement are at this link. http://lists.ebtwg.org/archives/ebtwg-ccs/200202/msg00089.html There are some great improvements and clarifications. It is not a wholesale revision but there are interesting parts. Identifier.Type has been extended to include Uniform Resource Identifiers (URIs). This is a CCT (Core Component Type) that is, a business datatype, that would be intrinsic in any runtime that supports core components. SMEs no longer have to register any "Agency" in the UN/CEFACT namespace to publish their Party or Product list. Also the Identifier. Type can point at internal value domains such as filesystem, SQL database or web service on the intranet, bringing us closer to the day when the internal data dictionary is the same as the global data dictionary. So, this makes the Identifier.Type usable in GL designs because you can use it for Account. RFC 2396 (URIs) is at http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2396.txt We are getting closer to the day when there is no GL design other than the BPSS, itself, plus some small number of accountant's adjustments that will probably be done in some financial reporting software, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xbrl-public/message/1242 http://lists.ebtwg.org/archives/ebtwg/200202/msg00048.html http://lists.ebtwg.org/archives/ebtwg-bcp/200202/msg00009.html Todd Todd Boyle CPA 9745-128th Ave NE Kirkland WA International Accounting Services, LLC www.gldialtone.com tboyle@rosehill.net 425-827-3107 project www.arapxml.net From infotechsys@pivot.net Sat Feb 16 08:00:52 2002 Received: from mail.pivot.net ([205.231.144.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16c4SS-0002FR-00 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:00:52 -0500 Received: from pivot.net (msta-aa132.pivot.net [66.186.165.132]) by mail.pivot.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g1GD0pm05052 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:00:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C6E51F2.8030903@pivot.net> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 07:34:58 -0500 From: infotechsys User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Test!!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I'm having a problem sending email to gnue-request@gnu.org. If you see this message could you send it to me. Thanks. Wayne From infotechsys@pivot.net Sat Feb 16 08:18:01 2002 Received: from mail.pivot.net ([205.231.144.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16c4j3-00030m-00 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:18:01 -0500 Received: from pivot.net (msta-aa132.pivot.net [66.186.165.132]) by mail.pivot.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g1GDI0m09078 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:18:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C6E55F7.4090107@pivot.net> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 07:52:07 -0500 From: infotechsys User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Another Test! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, Just a test :-) Wayne From infotechsys@pivot.net Sun Feb 17 08:28:12 2002 Received: from mail.pivot.net ([205.231.144.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16cRMS-0002xC-00 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:28:12 -0500 Received: from pivot.net (msta-ab387.pivot.net [66.186.169.133]) by mail.pivot.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g1HDSAm20701 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:28:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C6FA9D3.5000006@pivot.net> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:02:11 -0500 From: infotechsys User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Some Missing Reports. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, When I tried to pull down these document on the home page I got a "NOT FOUND". These documents come under the heading Supply Chain. Supply Chain: Package Base Package I selected postscrip format. Later- Wayne From ntiffin@earthlink.net Sun Feb 17 09:40:32 2002 Received: from custmail0.corp.aus.wayport.net ([216.12.231.21]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16cSUS-0001EI-00 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:40:32 -0500 Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dhcp64-134-54-181.chan.dca.wayport.net [64.134.54.181]) by custmail0.corp.aus.wayport.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1HEfHX18803; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:41:17 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ntiffin@pop.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3C6FA9D3.5000006@pivot.net> References: <3C6FA9D3.5000006@pivot.net> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:40:03 -0500 To: infotechsys , gnue@gnu.org From: Neil Tiffin Subject: Re: Some Missing Reports. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Sorry about that. Of course you are right and we need to fix the links. You can get to the documents from this page. http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/sc.html Neil At 8:02 AM -0500 2/17/02, infotechsys wrote: >Hi, >When I tried to pull down these document on >the home page I got a "NOT FOUND". >These documents come under the heading >Supply Chain. >Supply Chain: Package >Base Package >I selected postscrip format. >Later- >Wayne > > >_______________________________________________ >Gnue mailing list >Gnue@gnu.org >http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue From ntiffin@earthlink.net Sun Feb 17 10:11:30 2002 Received: from custmail0.corp.aus.wayport.net ([216.12.231.21]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16cSyQ-0002NK-00 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:11:30 -0500 Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dhcp64-134-54-181.chan.dca.wayport.net [64.134.54.181]) by custmail0.corp.aus.wayport.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1HFCPX18926; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:12:25 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ntiffin@pop.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <3C6FA9D3.5000006@pivot.net> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:11:21 -0500 To: infotechsys , gnue@gnu.org From: Neil Tiffin Subject: Re: Some Missing Reports. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: done, web site changed. At 9:40 AM -0500 2/17/02, Neil Tiffin wrote: >Sorry about that. Of course you are right and we need to fix the >links. You can get to the documents from this page. > >http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/sc.html > >Neil > > >At 8:02 AM -0500 2/17/02, infotechsys wrote: >>Hi, >>When I tried to pull down these document on >>the home page I got a "NOT FOUND". >>These documents come under the heading >>Supply Chain. >>Supply Chain: Package >>Base Package >>I selected postscrip format. >>Later- >>Wayne >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Gnue mailing list >>Gnue@gnu.org >>http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue > > >_______________________________________________ >Gnue mailing list >Gnue@gnu.org >http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue From infotechsys@pivot.net Sun Feb 17 18:40:27 2002 Received: from mail.pivot.net ([205.231.144.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16cauw-0001Ic-00 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:40:27 -0500 Received: from pivot.net (msta-ab438.pivot.net [66.186.169.184]) by mail.pivot.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g1HNeOm20297 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:40:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C70394E.9070606@pivot.net> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:14:22 -0500 From: infotechsys User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: A question on two version of python. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi All, I'm running Redhat version 7.2 and I did want to override python 1.5.2 that comes with this version of redhat. So, I installed python 2.1.2 in /usr/local. How can I tell GNUe to use the version I installed in /usr/local. When I run ./setup.py --help it show that it see python1.5.2. Later. Wayne From slamb@slamb.org Sun Feb 17 19:11:10 2002 Received: from cairo.zsat.net ([64.6.64.200]) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16cbOg-0002hn-00 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:11:10 -0500 Received: by cairo.zsat.net (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 1C595A6A04; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:11:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cairo.zsat.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0497AA2C04; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:10:59 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:10:59 -0600 (CST) From: Scott Lamb To: infotechsys Cc: Subject: Re: A question on two version of python. In-Reply-To: <3C70394E.9070606@pivot.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Like this: /usr/local/bin/python ./setup.py But that command won't work well unless you've installed several other packages. There's a guide to RedHat installation at . Beyond those instructions, you'll need to install the Python drivers for whatever database you intend to use. Here's how I installed the pypgsql PostgreSQL driver on RH7.2: . Good luck, Scott On Sun, 17 Feb 2002, infotechsys wrote: > Hi All, > I'm running Redhat version 7.2 and I did want to override > python 1.5.2 that comes with this version of redhat. So, I installed > python 2.1.2 in /usr/local. How can I tell GNUe to use the version > I installed in /usr/local. When I run ./setup.py--help it show that > it see python1.5.2. > Later. > Wayne > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnue mailing list > Gnue@gnu.org > http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue > From derek@gnue.org Sun Feb 17 19:22:45 2002 Received: from mail.libertydistribution.com ([65.101.4.210]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16cbZt-0003hD-00 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:22:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B6521CC69B; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:22:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from gnue.org (cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net [24.221.112.50]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 466751CC699; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:22:29 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3C704AC8.4010306@gnue.org> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:28:56 -0700 From: "Derek A. Neighbors" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20010917 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: infotechsys Cc: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: A question on two version of python. References: <3C70394E.9070606@pivot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: specifically call the 2.1.2 binary... something like /usr/local/bin/python2.1 setup.py install or in setup.py change the first line to be location of your 2.1 binary -Derek infotechsys wrote: > Hi All, > I'm running Redhat version 7.2 and I did want to override > python 1.5.2 that comes with this version of redhat. So, I installed > python 2.1.2 in /usr/local. How can I tell GNUe to use the version > I installed in /usr/local. When I run ./setup.py --help it show that > it see python1.5.2. > Later. > Wayne > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnue mailing list > Gnue@gnu.org > http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue > > From tboyle@rosehill.net Sun Feb 17 21:46:19 2002 Received: from deneb.cortland.com ([199.254.229.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16cdop-00079P-00 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:46:19 -0500 Received: from ppro180.rosehill.net (rosehill.net [207.229.102.93]) by deneb.cortland.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA26614; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:46:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: deneb.cortland.com: Host rosehill.net [207.229.102.93] claimed to be ppro180.rosehill.net Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020217170440.035208f0@popmail.cortland.com> X-Sender: tboyle@popmail.cortland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:13:22 -0800 To: gnue@gnu.org, sql-ledger-users@lists.sourceforge.net From: Todd Boyle Subject: GNUE ledger/ journal data schema Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Would your projects be willing to provide documentation of your transaction ledger or journal data schema, and if available, your GL interface, to this collection, at http://www.arapxml.net/research.htm ? Clearly, it would be of value to general ledger researchers and analysts on several levels. It would contribute another viewpoint of how GL and other transaction data should be represented within a working system, and it would inform them of the existence of your software. Please feel free to include whatever graphics or other static content you feel appropriate, and of course any IP statement or other boilerplate, Thank you, TOdd Todd Boyle CPA 9745-128th Ave NE Kirkland WA International Accounting Services, LLC www.gldialtone.com tboyle@rosehill.net 425-827-3107 project www.arapxml.net From infotechsys@pivot.net Mon Feb 18 06:41:30 2002 Received: from mail.pivot.net ([205.231.144.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16cmAk-0007E2-00 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 06:41:30 -0500 Received: from pivot.net (msta-aa703.pivot.net [66.186.167.194]) by mail.pivot.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g1IBfRm22498; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 06:41:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C70E24A.6000103@pivot.net> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 06:15:22 -0500 From: infotechsys User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott Lamb CC: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: A question on two version of python. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Thanks for the info Scott. I notice at the bottom of the document that you pointed me to has an item 9, but nothing there. Was there suppose to be an item 9? Wayne Scott Lamb wrote: >Like this: > > /usr/local/bin/python ./setup.py > >But that command won't work well unless you've installed several other >packages. There's a guide to RedHat installation at >. > >Beyond those instructions, you'll need to install the Python drivers for >whatever database you intend to use. Here's how I installed the pypgsql >PostgreSQL driver on RH7.2: >. > >Good luck, >Scott > >On Sun, 17 Feb 2002, infotechsys wrote: > >>Hi All, >>I'm running Redhat version 7.2 and I did want to override >>python 1.5.2 that comes with this version of redhat. So, I installed >>python 2.1.2 in /usr/local. How can I tell GNUe to use the version >>I installed in /usr/local. When I run ./setup.py--help it show that >>it see python1.5.2. >>Later. >>Wayne >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Gnue mailing list >>Gnue@gnu.org >>http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue >> > > > > From sklein@cpcug.org Mon Feb 18 22:15:13 2002 Received: from server12.safepages.com ([216.127.146.26]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16d0kL-0000dx-00 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:15:13 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust34.tnt14.dca5.da.uu.net [63.14.102.34]) by server12.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7DC31136186 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 03:14:22 +0000 (GMT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.16.20020218195510.47478996@cpcug.org> X-Sender: sklein@cpcug.org (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (16) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:55:10 To: gnue@gnu.org From: "Stanley A. Klein" Subject: Re: A question on two version of python In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At 12:03 PM 2/18/2002 -0500, infotechsys@pivot.net wrote: > >Hi All, >I'm running Redhat version 7.2 and I did want to override >python 1.5.2 that comes with this version of redhat. So, I installed >python 2.1.2 in /usr/local. How can I tell GNUe to use the version >I installed in /usr/local. When I run ./setup.py --help it show that >it see python1.5.2. >Later. >Wayne If you plan to use printconf, you need to keep python-1.5.2. You also need to be careful installing the PyXML 0.7 that is required with Python 2.1 to run gnue. Printconf is a printer configuration tool that is new with RedHat 7.2. There may be other RedHat 7.2 tools that also use Python 1.5.2. When I installed PyXML 0.7, I made the mistake of doing it as either "rpm -Uvh" or "rpm -Fvh". That caused it to uninstall the PyXML 0.66 (?) that came with RedHat 7.2. I then started getting a Python traceback during the bootup when it got to starting lpd. The message involved not being able to import pyexpat. It turned out that /usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages/xml/utils/qp_xml.py had been deleted on the uninstall. The final part of the message said "No printers defined". I deleted PyXML 0.7 and reinstalled both PyXML 0.66 and 0.7, using "rpm -ivh". That got rid of the boot sequence traceback and the problems I previously had running gnue. BTW, the rpm's install python 2.1.2 in /usr/lib/python2.1, and PyXML 0.7 in /usr/lib/python2.1/site-packages. Python 1.5.2 and the PyXML 0.66 install in /usr/lib/python1.5 and /usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages, respectively. Stan Klein From thewolf@softhome.net Tue Feb 19 11:52:20 2002 Received: from la-leaseline98.netsol.net ([216.179.164.98] helo=localhost.localdomain) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16dDV6-0003w3-00 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:52:20 -0500 Received: from mail (root@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1JGr0R03829 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:53:05 -0800 Received: from chris.maximlighting.com (la-leaseline101.netsol.net 216.179.164.101) by mail (OpenMail SMTP Relay B.07.00.00) via ESMTP; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:53:05 -0800 (PST) From: Wolf Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:44:47 GMT Message-ID: <20020219.16444700@chris.maximlighting.com> Subject: Problem with GEAS and MySQL 4.01 To: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailer: Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; StarOffice/5.2;Linux) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------=_4D480080DB1C5195F778" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --------------=_4D480080DB1C5195F778 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've been looking at this project for a few weeks now, and I decided I would give the software a try. I got everything compiled and installed,= but now I have a problem running the geas-server program. It doesn't seem like it can create the database. I am running RedHat Linux 7.2, bu= t I have upgraded to MySQL 4.01. I have installed all the required RPM's according to the recent RedHat CVS Install Instructions on the website. When I try to run GEAS-Server, this is the output I get: [chr@chris chr]$ geas-server Trying to open config file '/usr/local/etc/geas.conf' Loading aliases from file 'geas-alias.cfg' ** ERROR **: file geas-server.c: line 1676 (reserve_sql_words): assertio= n failed: (fp !=3D NULL) aborting... Aborted Any help on this matter will be greatly appreciated. I have attached my= geas.conf file just in case I need different settings. Christopher Lewis p.s. I know this is basically a development release, but is there any documentation available for end users and other non-developers? --------------=_4D480080DB1C5195F778 Content-Description: filename="geas.conf" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="geas.conf" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name ="geas.conf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable # a demo setup only. adjust to suit your system # only one database at a time is allowed tablealiases geas-alias.cfg # The username for the defualt system administrator # - logs in as 'admin' using 'admin' password from shadowpw adminuser root # Log all activities (reads, writes, object creation and deletion) # to this file (uncomment to activate logging system) # mainlog geas.log # log server private classes as well (debug mode only) # logserverclasses FALSE # always FALSE in release mode # Create a log file of all debugging information, for use in tracking do= wn errors debugfile geas.debug.log # where to look for GCD (Gnue Class Definition) files classdir /usr/local/share/geas # classdir ../examples/businessobjects # classdir ../../gnue-config # Where to find method code files methoddir /usr/local/share/geas/methods # methoddir ../examples/businessobjects/methods # Where is the geas.idl file stored? rootIDLfile /usr/local/share/idl/geas.idl # rootIDLfile ../idl/geas.idl # where to display database change information databasechangefile /dev/null # don't care about it just now :) # These files contain lists of reserved words # ie words that can't be used as table/column names mysqlreserved /usr/local/share/geas/mysql.reserved.lst # postgresqlreserved /usr/local/share/geas/postgresql.reserved.lst # control debugging output debuglevel off # controls output to screen - debugfile above always gets= full detail # How many objects to keep in RAM at one time maximumcache 50000 # where to publish server details # default is in ${prefix}/var/run # for current demos, leave in 'src' dir pidfile /usr/local/var/run/geas-server.pid iorfile /usr/local/var/run/geas-server.ior # If the CORBA name service is being used, this IOR identifies # the server to use (currently not fully implemented) nameserviceior /tmp/orbit-name-server.ior # adjust these settings as appropriate. remember to create a 'shadowpw' # file if a password is required to access the MySQL database [ database test_mysql ] active true type MySQL dbname gnue username gnue hostname localhost unixsocket /var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock port 0 connections 1 # adjust these settings as appropriate. remember to create a 'shadowpw' # file if a password is required to access the PostgreSQL database [ database test_postgresql ] active false type PostgreSQL dbname gnue username gnue hostname localhost port 5432 connections 1 --------------=_4D480080DB1C5195F778-- From reinhard@gnue.org Tue Feb 19 12:33:43 2002 Received: from warsl401pip8.highway.telekom.at ([195.3.96.117] helo=email03.aon.at) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16dE99-0008QK-00 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:33:43 -0500 Received: (qmail 122134 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2002 17:33:41 -0000 Received: from n809p002.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO tigger.localnet) ([62.47.45.2]) (envelope-sender ) by qmail3.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 19 Feb 2002 17:33:41 -0000 Subject: Re: Problem with GEAS and MySQL 4.01 From: Reinhard Mueller To: Wolf Cc: gnue@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <20020219.16444700@chris.maximlighting.com> References: <20020219.16444700@chris.maximlighting.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0 (Preview Release) Date: 19 Feb 2002 18:44:15 +0100 Message-Id: <1014140660.6085.25.camel@tigger> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, 2002-02-19 at 17:44, Wolf wrote: > ** ERROR **: file geas-server.c: line 1676 (reserve_sql_words): assertion > failed: (fp != NULL) (See below) > p.s. I know this is basically a development release, but is there any > documentation available for end users and other non-developers? Depends on what you want to do. In any case, http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/sc.html is a good starting point for looking for offical and inofficial docs. > # These files contain lists of reserved words > # ie words that can't be used as table/column names > mysqlreserved /usr/local/share/geas/mysql.reserved.lst > # postgresqlreserved /usr/local/share/geas/postgresql.reserved.lst postgresqlreserved may not be commented out. Please reove the # at the beginning of the line, and everything should work. The reason is that geas loads (or tries to load) both files no matter what database is acutally used. Thanks, -- Reinhard Mueller GNU Enterprise project http://www.gnue.org From slamb@slamb.org Wed Feb 20 00:37:03 2002 Received: from cairo.zsat.net ([64.6.64.200]) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16dPR8-0004dz-00 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:37:03 -0500 Received: by cairo.zsat.net (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 4DE92A6A04; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:36:41 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cairo.zsat.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45D3AA2C04; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:36:41 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:36:41 -0600 (CST) From: Scott Lamb To: infotechsys Cc: Subject: Re: A question on two version of python. In-Reply-To: <3C70E24A.6000103@pivot.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, infotechsys wrote: > Thanks for the info Scott. I notice at the bottom of the document > that you pointed me to hasan item 9, but nothing there. Was > there suppose to be an item 9? > Wayne Not sure. I didn't write it; Keith Nasman did. (I just happened to have read/followed it recently.) Sorry if I gave the impression I did. But those eight steps worked fine for me, other than needing to also install a driver. Scott From jens@unfaehig.de Thu Feb 21 16:00:34 2002 Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.19]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16e0KQ-0006Md-00 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:00:34 -0500 Received: from fwd00.sul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16e0KO-0005Xr-01; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 22:00:32 +0100 Received: from debian.enode.de (510013902217-0001@[217.85.38.189]) by fmrl00.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 16e0KG-0xUKzgC; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 22:00:24 +0100 Received: from jens by debian.enode.de with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16e0Ko-0005fU-00; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 22:00:58 +0100 To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: New law concerning electronic commerce Organization: eNode Internet Services GbR, Kaltenkirchen, DE From: "Jens =?iso-8859-1?q?M=FCller?=" Date: 21 Feb 2002 21:56:41 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 16 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Sender: 510013902217-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: In Germany, there is (effective from 2002-01-01) a change in the BGB (Civil Code) implementing a EU directive "on certain aspects of electronic commerce". It has certain requirements on the processing of electronic orders etc. Furthermore, the new TDDSG (Teledienstedatenschutzgesetz - Law on Privacy in Online Services) requires that the user agrees in processing and storing of his personal data. But not only that - this agreement has to be electronically documented. Things to care for if Gnue should be used for electronic commerce in the EU. From tboyle@rosehill.net Thu Feb 21 18:07:40 2002 Received: from deneb.cortland.com ([199.254.229.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16e2JP-0001JV-00 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:07:39 -0500 Received: from ppro180.rosehill.net (rosehill.net [207.229.102.93]) by deneb.cortland.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA29412; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:07:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: deneb.cortland.com: Host rosehill.net [207.229.102.93] claimed to be ppro180.rosehill.net Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221145557.045cc270@popmail.cortland.com> X-Sender: tboyle@popmail.cortland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:14:16 -0800 To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jens_M=FCller=22?= , gnue@gnu.org From: Todd Boyle Subject: Re: New law concerning electronic commerce In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At 12:56 PM 2/21/02, Jens M=FCller wrote: >In Germany, there is (effective from 2002-01-01) a change in the BGB >(Civil Code) implementing a EU directive "on certain aspects of >electronic commerce". > >It has certain requirements on the processing of electronic orders >etc. > >Furthermore, the new TDDSG (Teledienstedatenschutzgesetz - Law on >Privacy in Online Services) requires that the user agrees in >processing and storing of his personal data. One should always be aware that the State is acting primarily on behalf of itself and its instruments, Corporations which they invented, which are extensions of government and are the foundation of government finance. Accumulating information about the people you deal with, is a well established practice and a right, long before the internet, and it is of course the foundation of any decentralization of systems of credit and reputation. When there is any system for reliably determining a comprehensive picture of people's history of dealings with the economy, then, that will be the end of banks. Of COURSE. Your signature alone will be sufficient for purchases. You won't need to rent your reputation from a credit card company. And god help you, if you don't pay your obligations. :-) That's the way it SHOULD be. But, governments all over the world (who routinely ignore vast areas of human rights) are OH so sensitive to protect your rights to privacy, by preventing reputation systems. The other big constituency for this nauseating "privacy" trend: banks, who are suffering losses from their obsolete credit card and payment systems, invented the term "Identity theft" as if the main victim was the individual depositor.. barf. And the other group behind these "privacy" laws are the large number of wealthy and elite classes, who need to prevent public understanding or disclosure of their business dealings. Real individuals are not screaming about privacy in the accumulation of marketing information. They are screaming about things that directly injure them on the internet: SPAM, and the plague of trojans, viruses, hackers and intrusion. And we are screaming about the automatic, wholesale monitoring of our private emails and other activities by *governments*. So, here is a bronx cheer for government privacy protections. Give us secure platforms, and authentication. That's all we need. Todd From szsciman@yahoo.com Thu Feb 21 21:25:22 2002 Received: from smtp015.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.173.59]) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16e5Ok-00008I-00 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:25:22 -0500 Received: from szsciman (AUTH LOGIN) at unknown (HELO self) (szsciman@210.21.224.100) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2002 02:25:20 -0000 Message-ID: <004501c1bb4b$138af660$2700a8c0@creative> From: "Ke Deng" To: "GNUe" Subject: ERP standards Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:46:04 +0800 Organization: Compass Workshop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: hi, How do you think of the ERP Standards(such as MRPII standard written by Oliver Wight)? Is it important for GNUe? thanks, Sciman. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From derek@gnue.org Sat Feb 23 10:32:04 2002 Received: from mail.libertydistribution.com ([65.101.4.210]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16ee9c-0001dN-00 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:32:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A64591CC69F; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:31:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from gnue.org (cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net [24.221.112.50]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26F811CC653; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:31:50 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3C77B76C.8080802@gnue.org> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:38:20 -0700 From: "Derek A. Neighbors" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20010917 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ke Deng Cc: GNUe Subject: Re: ERP standards References: <004501c1bb4b$138af660$2700a8c0@creative> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: We of course think standards are important. I think the biggest problem is we have a hard time endorsing standards that either: a. require a fee for membership to give input. as it is against the nature of free software to have to 'pay' to participate in the development of the 'standard', participation should be meritted by one's ability expertise in an area not whether their company can afford the fee. b. are vendor creator or used by vendors to neutralize a market, specifically the standard is created to cause confusion among those not in the 'vendors' circle That said, GNUe is highly flexible so it could be made to support almost any 'standard' you so desire. I do not know of this MRPII standard but would love to see more on it, can you either provide a link in a return email or submit it as a story on http://www.gnuenterprise.org ? Thanks Derek Neighbors GNU Enterprise Ke Deng wrote: >hi, > How do you think of the ERP Standards(such as MRPII standard written by >Oliver Wight)? Is it important for GNUe? >thanks, > Sciman. > > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > >_______________________________________________ >Gnue mailing list >Gnue@gnu.org >http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue > > From jon@transliti.com Sat Feb 23 13:59:18 2002 Received: from npnmail.demon.co.uk ([193.237.174.178] helo=npnmail.transliti.com) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16ehO5-0008KD-00 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 13:59:16 -0500 Received: (from jon@localhost) by npnmail.transliti.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id g1NKK4A06886; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 20:20:04 GMT From: Jon Guiton Message-Id: <200202232020.g1NKK4A06886@npnmail.transliti.com> Subject: Re: New law concerning electronic commerce To: tboyle@rosehill.net (Todd Boyle) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 20:20:04 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jens@unfaehig.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jens_M=FCller=22?=), gnue@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221145557.045cc270@popmail.cortland.com> from "Todd Boyle" at Feb 21, 2002 03:14:16 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >In Germany, there is (effective from 2002-01-01) a change in the BGB >(Civil Code) implementing a EU directive "on certain aspects of >electronic commerce". > >It has certain requirements on the processing of electronic orders >etc. > >Furthermore, the new TDDSG (Teledienstedatenschutzgesetz - Law on >Privacy in Online Services) requires that the user agrees in >processing and storing of his personal data. This is also true in the UK under the Data Protection Act. The US offers its citizens far fewer rights over their data that most of the world. Without this this provision the application would be unusable in the EU. Jon Guiton From infotechsys@pivot.net Sat Feb 23 16:15:37 2002 Received: from mail.pivot.net ([205.231.144.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16ejW5-00055f-00 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 16:15:37 -0500 Received: from pivot.net (msta-aa179.pivot.net [66.186.165.179]) by mail.pivot.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g1NLFZR26429 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 16:15:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C78003D.7070602@pivot.net> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 15:49:01 -0500 From: infotechsys User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Confused on the install instruction. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello, I'm trying to install Common, but the instruction don't seem to bee complete. I did the ./setup.py install. I change the file sample.gnue.conf to gnue.conf and I changed sample.connections.conf to connections.conf. Then the instruction stop. Should there be more to the build process? If I just want to look at what is available do I need to set connection.conf to actually having good values? Wayne From tboyle@rosehill.net Sat Feb 23 18:12:27 2002 Received: from deneb.cortland.com ([199.254.229.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16elL8-0005c3-00 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 18:12:26 -0500 Received: from ppro180.rosehill.net (rosehill.net [207.229.102.93]) by deneb.cortland.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA14873; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 15:11:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: deneb.cortland.com: Host rosehill.net [207.229.102.93] claimed to be ppro180.rosehill.net Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020223145853.03090ec0@popmail.cortland.com> X-Sender: tboyle@popmail.cortland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 15:18:03 -0800 To: "Derek A. Neighbors" , Ke Deng From: Todd Boyle Subject: Re: ERP standards Cc: GNUe In-Reply-To: <3C77B76C.8080802@gnue.org> References: <004501c1bb4b$138af660$2700a8c0@creative> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > ...we have a hard time endorsing standards that either: >a. require a fee for membership to give input [..or] >b. are vendor [..]created to cause confusion among those not in the 'vendors' circle I would like to point to the ARAP project, which is free, and is not in any way vendor-specific. It is a completely open attempt to observe, or perceive, the needs of every GL in the world, and see what can be done towards an application-neutral standard for general ledger interfaces. There are numerous other standards efforts which also pass the tests in the criteria (a) and (b) . The objective fact is that GNUE does not study or comply with any standards, because it takes more time and research, and does not provide the software developer with a positive return on their additional time invested, in most circumstances. Duncan Unwin articulated this issue superbly well, here on this list, http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/gnue/2000-September/000021.html "Standards" are a kind of community contract that are viable in some circumstances, and not viable in others. Let's just be honest about that. It's kind of like what gays go through, when they come out of the closet, or anybody else admitting things they don't like about themselves. GNUE project is certainly not unique in ignoring various standards of course. We should count our blessings and salute Neil, Derek, and other key developers for their generosity in offering this open source project to the community. They're aware of standards processes. It is their own prerogative, to make whatever architecture decisions they want, since they are the ones writing the code. I just don't like the pretensions, that there are not really any suitable standards for GNUE to study or observe, Respectfully, Todd www.arapxml.net At 07:38 AM 2/23/02, Derek A. Neighbors wrote: >We of course think standards are important. I think the biggest problem >is we have a hard time endorsing standards that either: > >a. require a fee for membership to give input. as it is against the >nature of free software to have to 'pay' to participate in the development >of the 'standard', participation should be meritted by one's ability >expertise in an area not whether their company can afford the fee. > >b. are vendor creator or used by vendors to neutralize a market, >specifically the standard is created to cause confusion among those not in >the 'vendors' circle > >That said, GNUe is highly flexible so it could be made to support almost >any 'standard' you so desire. I do not know of this MRPII standard but >would love to see more on it, can you either provide a link in a return >email or submit it as a story on http://www.gnuenterprise.org ? > >Thanks > >Derek Neighbors >GNU Enterprise > >Ke Deng wrote: > >>hi, >> How do you think of the ERP Standards(such as MRPII standard written by >>Oliver Wight)? Is it important for GNUe? >>thanks, >> Sciman. >> >> >>_________________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Gnue mailing list >>Gnue@gnu.org >>http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >Gnue mailing list >Gnue@gnu.org >http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue From ntiffin@earthlink.net Sat Feb 23 19:05:03 2002 Received: from custmail0.corp.aus.wayport.net ([216.12.231.21]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16emA3-00011J-00 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:05:03 -0500 Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dhcp64-134-54-184.chan.dca.wayport.net [64.134.54.184]) by custmail0.corp.aus.wayport.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1O05cX25945; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 00:05:39 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ntiffin@pop.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020223145853.03090ec0@popmail.cortland.com> References: <004501c1bb4b$138af660$2700a8c0@creative> <5.1.0.14.0.20020223145853.03090ec0@popmail.cortland.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:04:33 -0500 To: Todd Boyle , "Derek A. Neighbors" , Ke Deng From: Neil Tiffin Subject: Re: ERP standards Cc: GNUe Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At 3:18 PM -0800 2/23/02, Todd Boyle wrote: >GNUE project is certainly not unique in ignoring various >standards of course. We should count our blessings and >salute Neil, Derek, and other key developers for their generosity >in offering this open source project to the community. They're Having worked with GNUE for almost 2 years I think the issue is NOT the lack of desire to use standards. I for one would much rather use someone else's prior work in the form of standards instead of trying to create a beast from scratch. My problem is that I am not an accountant and don't have the time to sort through all of the noise (standards that are being proposed, but will never be implemented or represent an accepted standard). I have not found an accounting standard that applies to GNUe. There are all sorts of standard that are vying for control of how accounting is done. But I have not found one that is geared for internal systems. Most of the ones mentioned, so far, have been for data interchange and they are not currently practical for high volume transactions internal to a company. Of course, my look at accounting standard has only been cursory, so please feel free to enlighten me if a standard exists that is practical. Neil From ntiffin@earthlink.net Sat Feb 23 19:10:22 2002 Received: from custmail0.corp.aus.wayport.net ([216.12.231.21]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16emFC-0001KM-00 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:10:22 -0500 Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dhcp64-134-54-184.chan.dca.wayport.net [64.134.54.184]) by custmail0.corp.aus.wayport.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1O0B8X25955; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 00:11:09 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ntiffin@pop.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200202232020.g1NKK4A06886@npnmail.transliti.com> References: <200202232020.g1NKK4A06886@npnmail.transliti.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:10:06 -0500 To: Jon Guiton , tboyle@rosehill.net (Todd Boyle) From: Neil Tiffin Subject: Re: New law concerning electronic commerce Cc: jens@unfaehig.de ( =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jens_M=FCller=22?= ), gnue@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At 8:20 PM +0000 2/23/02, Jon Guiton wrote: > >In Germany, there is (effective from 2002-01-01) a change in the BGB >>(Civil Code) implementing a EU directive "on certain aspects of >>electronic commerce". >> >>It has certain requirements on the processing of electronic orders >>etc. >> >>Furthermore, the new TDDSG (Teledienstedatenschutzgesetz - Law on >>Privacy in Online Services) requires that the user agrees in >>processing and storing of his personal data. > >This is also true in the UK under the Data Protection Act. The US >offers its citizens far fewer rights over their data that most of the >world. Without this this provision the application would be unusable >in the EU. I see this a easily accomplishable. If someone would write a concise description of the requirement we will add it into our requirements. We expect to have several specific country adaptions and have allowed for these in the design (we have not started the implementations yet). Of course, we need to make it configurable, but not optional. Neil From jens@unfaehig.de Sat Feb 23 19:22:35 2002 Received: from mailout10.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.21]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16emR1-0001x1-00 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:22:35 -0500 Received: from fwd07.sul.t-online.de by mailout10.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16emQz-0005ig-00; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 01:22:33 +0100 Received: from debian.enode.de (510013902217-0001@[217.85.35.89]) by fmrl07.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 16emQq-0aUpSSC; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 01:22:24 +0100 Received: from jens by debian.enode.de with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16emRY-0000GV-00 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 01:23:08 +0100 To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: New law concerning electronic commerce References: <200202232020.g1NKK4A06886@npnmail.transliti.com> Date: 24 Feb 2002 01:17:01 +0100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: "Jens =?iso-8859-1?q?M=FCller?=" Lines: 27 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Sender: 510013902217-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Neil Tiffin writes: > If someone would write a concise description of the requirement we > will add it into our requirements. Requirement: Before the user is asked to enter personal information, he must be informed that he is about to enter such information and how such information is used. He then has to declare his consent, otherwise he should not be asked to enter any personal information. He also has to be informed that he can at any time withdraw his consent effective from then on. The information and the user's declaration of consent has to be documented. Measures have to be taken to ensure that personal information can be locked from normal access on a possible future user request. Anonymous statistical should be split from personal information as soon is obtained and be stored separately (then it is no longer subject to privacy regulations, because it is not data referring to a specific or identifiable person). From ntiffin@earthlink.net Sat Feb 23 21:23:38 2002 Received: from custmail0.corp.aus.wayport.net ([216.12.231.21]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16eoKA-00016C-00 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:23:38 -0500 Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dhcp64-134-54-184.chan.dca.wayport.net [64.134.54.184]) by custmail0.corp.aus.wayport.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1O2OYX26376; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 02:24:34 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ntiffin@pop.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <200202232020.g1NKK4A06886@npnmail.transliti.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:23:30 -0500 To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jens_M=FCller=22?= , gnue@gnu.org From: Neil Tiffin Subject: Re: New law concerning electronic commerce Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Excellent, Thanks this has been added to: packages/base/person/doc/person.sgml Neil At 1:17 AM +0100 2/24/02, Jens M=FCller wrote: >Neil Tiffin writes: > >> If someone would write a concise description of the requirement we >> will add it into our requirements. > >Requirement: > >Before the user is asked to enter personal information, he must be >informed that he is about to enter such information and how such >information is used. > >He then has to declare his consent, otherwise he should not be asked >to enter any personal information. > >He also has to be informed that he can at any time withdraw his >consent effective from then on. > >The information and the user's declaration of consent has to be >documented. > >Measures have to be taken to ensure that personal information can be >locked from normal access on a possible future user request. > >Anonymous statistical should be split from personal information as >soon is obtained and be stored separately (then it is no longer >subject to privacy regulations, because it is not data referring to a >specific or identifiable person). > >_______________________________________________ >Gnue mailing list >Gnue@gnu.org >http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue From tboyle@rosehill.net Sat Feb 23 22:34:37 2002 Received: from deneb.cortland.com ([199.254.229.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16epQr-0006my-00 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:34:37 -0500 Received: from ppro180.rosehill.net (rosehill.net [207.229.102.93]) by deneb.cortland.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA10432; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:34:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: deneb.cortland.com: Host rosehill.net [207.229.102.93] claimed to be ppro180.rosehill.net Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020223182142.036d1b40@popmail.cortland.com> X-Sender: tboyle@popmail.cortland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:41:09 -0800 To: Neil Tiffin , "Derek A. Neighbors" , Ke Deng From: Todd Boyle Subject: Re: ERP standards Cc: GNUe In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020223145853.03090ec0@popmail.cortland.com> <004501c1bb4b$138af660$2700a8c0@creative> <5.1.0.14.0.20020223145853.03090ec0@popmail.cortland.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >>please feel free to enlighten me if a standard exists that is practical. Neil, your comments are quite rational. I agree, without reservations, there has not been any standard for the exchange of transactions among the internal applications of a company that had sufficient following to provide any payoffs. OAGIS, could have been a candidate. But it has some fundamental weaknesses. ERP is not even a candidate inasmuch as it ignores the 50 million SMEs in the world. Now in 2002 you have three broad choices. 1. General Ledger standards - By this I mean, standard conceptual elements and standard names for things like transaction dates, times, parties, accounts, etc. necessary for exchange of information to/from accounting or business systems. There are three groups on the planet, today, who give a damn about GL standards. - Eric Cohen and his group at the XBRL Consortium, - Robert Lemense and the D14 domain committee of EDIFACT, and, - our group at ArapXML who produced the OMG GL and OMG AR/AP models, and are members of the OMG and the Core Components workgroup of UN/CEFACT. Inevitably our three GL groups will zero in on the accurate picture and combine the models. Meanwhile they don't talk to me so, I can't tell you what the h*ll they are up to. XBRL does not listen to anybody or share their work in progress, or allow your vote on it, unless you're either a target for their XBRL Framework, or, paying the $10,000 annual dues. Thats $800/month, for the privilege of then, contributing even more money and time to build the standards. I actually was stupid enough to fly to Orlando in December to meet with the XBRL GL group. For a full 8-hour day, they did maintain an astonishing wall of confidentiality, just as CPAs do in commercial negotiations, never disclosing anything of their positions in design of a general ledger schema or economic ontology. The UN/CEFACT bodies only conduct their dialog in private discussions, and in physical meetings every 6 months in international locations, usually outside the US. In that sense they are like the Davos group. I have asked many times for any drafts or even discussions of principle design, but the invariable result from this group is some assertions of political process, releases of whatever new regulatory body they have created. Supposedly, the D14 of the UN/CEFACT will publish some kind of GL model soon, perhaps at the Barcelona meeting in Spain, in March. Here is a typical encounter with Robert Lemense who never participates on technical or design discussions. The guy is 65, he is part of the French EDI establishment. He was a champion of ENTREC. http://lists.ebtwg.org/archives/ebtwg-ccs/200111/msg00084.html http://lists.ebtwg.org/archives/ebtwg-ccs/200111/msg00092.html Bear in mind, the world is not beating down the doors looking for a GL specification or even a family of EAI integration schemas like OAGIS, SMBXML or QBXML. They happen to work pretty well. But what difference does that make if *none* of the commercial software vendors is utilizing them? other than perhaps, their own proprietary interface (if you're lucky) It is only the individual and SME who really needs a GL standard... 2. e-business integration standards. Obviously, the number of industry specific semantic models has grown, and have gotten much more detailed and accurate in every industry. Look at all these diverse standards! --new and old, continuing to evolve and develop. http://www.diffuse.org/0201-ec.html http://www.diffuse.org/0112-ec.html There's also the nearly daily news on Robin Cover pages, but that is just within the universe of XML (technology-specific), http://xml.coverpages.org/ These are not bad news and these, are the real battleground where e- business semantics are being forged. Not the centeralized standard bodies. So, the question is, similar to General Ledger interface standards: how can horizontal interop. be achieved in a world of excellent vertical schemas being used in every industry? There are two answers really. Bigtime mapping infrastructures like Biztalk Server or EAI platforms, or, hopefully, some future metadata registry and open source code, that enables developers toachieve mapping more easily. 3. The Core Components framework. Core Components is the common metadata architecture that applies the principles of ISO 11179 to the business domain. This is a very large subject and the place to start is perhaps reading some easy warmups, from the magazines on the web. Core components technical specification provides the rules, for designing semantic elements. Users can combine them anyway they like. This is not about prescribing anything, it is about nailing down the most obvious and wellknown entities like dates, parties, locations, products, contacts, and the vocabulary for commitments and fulfillments. These conceptual entities are already well established in contract law. There is no doubt, their brief definitions can be stacked up like a dictionary, with unique identifiers, and we can all get down the road with a single language. The Core Components framework removes the infighting over the naming of the element, or the syntax of expressing it as EDI, XML etc. or national biases or *any other objection.* Since it is fundamentally a dictionary of atomic elements, you can assemble them into any document you desire. There is no doubt, this is the way forward. Core components can describe all of those excellent vertical XML schemas. They don't have to cooperate and they can wish it wasn't true. Nothing can stop you from creating a core component version of AnythingXML, which is therby, interoperable to some degree, with your own component model. Nothing can stop me from interoperating with Robert Lemenses' thing if he ever publishes it, or with the XBRL GL which is occasionally released to the public after it's been decided by their members. And, nothing will stop the users of ARAP GLIE's from abandoning it and adopting the XBRL or the UN/CEFACT GL. This is where my fingers get tired. You really should install Poseidon and join with Arne and I to continue the work on the version 2 of ARAP Submission to the OMG with its associated set of Core Component semantics. Let's make it just better. The registry is a meritocracy. Regardless of whoever discovers, and correctly defines, the atomic entities, or the correctly designed aggregate entities, they will be there for 100 years. Picture yourself during the renaissance, when scholars argued over the definitions in the Oxford dictionary. That's what's happening here, except that it will not take long. A couple more years. Thanks for listening if you're still there, Todd Todd Boyle CPA 9745-128th Ave NE Kirkland WA International Accounting Services, LLC www.gldialtone.com tboyle@rosehill.net 425-827-3107 project www.arapxml.net > At 04:04 PM 2/23/02, Neil Tiffin wrote: > At 3:18 PM -0800 2/23/02, Todd Boyle wrote: >> GNUE project is certainly not unique in ignoring various >> standards of course. We should count our blessings and >> salute Neil, Derek, and other key developers for their generosity >> in offering this open source project to the community. They're > > Having worked with GNUE for almost 2 years I think the issue is NOT the > lack of desire to use standards. I for one would much rather use > someone else's prior work in the form of standards instead of trying to > create a beast from scratch. > > My problem is that I am not an accountant and don't have the time to > sort through all of the noise (standards that are being proposed, but > will never be implemented or represent an accepted standard). > > I have not found an accounting standard that applies to GNUe. There are > all sorts of standard that are vying for control of how accounting is > done. But I have not found one that is geared for internal systems. > Most of the ones mentioned, so far, have been for data interchange and > they are not currently practical for high volume transactions internal > to a company. > > Of course, my look at accounting standard has only been cursory, so > please feel free to enlighten me if a standard exists that is practical. > > Neil From jens@unfaehig.de Sun Feb 24 01:18:06 2002 Received: from mailout11.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.85]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16erz4-0008Sn-00 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 01:18:06 -0500 Received: from fwd08.sul.t-online.de by mailout11.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16eryl-0002Jz-00; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:17:47 +0100 Received: from debian.enode.de (510013902217-0001@[217.85.35.89]) by fmrl08.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 16eryf-1v1yZkC; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:17:41 +0100 Received: from jens by debian.enode.de with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16erzP-0003oQ-00 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:18:27 +0100 To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: New law concerning electronic commerce References: <200202232020.g1NKK4A06886@npnmail.transliti.com> Date: 24 Feb 2002 07:16:07 +0100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: "Jens =?iso-8859-1?q?M=FCller?=" Mail-Copies-To: never Lines: 15 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Sender: 510013902217-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Neil Tiffin writes: > Excellent, > > Thanks this has been added to: > > packages/base/person/doc/person.sgml Cool. Any possibility to list me as an author? Btw: I will soon be writing something about "General storage and access control requirements with respect to privacy regulations." -- Please don't CC me on replies! From szsciman@yahoo.com Sun Feb 24 08:47:30 2002 Received: from smtp018.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.174.115]) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16eyzy-0000it-00 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:47:30 -0500 Received: from szsciman (AUTH LOGIN) at unknown (HELO self) (szsciman@210.21.224.100) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2002 13:47:28 -0000 Message-ID: <00ca01c1bd3c$b8ff21a0$2700a8c0@creative> From: "Ke Deng" To: "GNUe" Subject: RE:ERP Standards Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 22:08:20 +0800 Organization: Compass Workshop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: hi, Derek,Neil and Todd: I agree with Todd in many aspects of what he said.I think if there's no suitable standards for GNUe,we could create our own standards referencing some existing ones. I like GNUe project very much and respect developers of Open Source Software greatly for their excellent work and spirit of freedom. The charm of Open Source Software is its openness which allow many people to take part into it actively.I think if GNUe could have some standards(created or complied),it will be more interoperability and powerful. At last ,whatever choice do you make,I will support you firmly. thanks, sciman. BTW:please don't CC me on the reply ,otherwise I 'll receive two same copy at the same time because I 've been a member of this mailing list already. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ntiffin@earthlink.net Sun Feb 24 09:09:20 2002 Received: from custmail0.corp.aus.wayport.net ([216.12.231.21]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16ezL6-00028p-00 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:09:20 -0500 Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dhcp64-134-54-184.chan.dca.wayport.net [64.134.54.184]) by custmail0.corp.aus.wayport.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1OEAGX28689; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:10:16 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ntiffin@pop.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <200202232020.g1NKK4A06886@npnmail.transliti.com> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:40:58 -0500 To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jens_M=FCller=22?= , gnue@gnu.org From: Neil Tiffin Subject: Re: New law concerning electronic commerce Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: sure, do we have an Assignment from you for GNUe? Neil At 7:16 AM +0100 2/24/02, Jens M=FCller wrote: >Neil Tiffin writes: > >> Excellent, >> >> Thanks this has been added to: >> >> packages/base/person/doc/person.sgml > >Cool. Any possibility to list me as an author? > >Btw: I will soon be writing something about "General storage and >access control requirements with respect to privacy regulations." > >-- >Please don't CC me on replies! > >_______________________________________________ >Gnue mailing list >Gnue@gnu.org >http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue From zcoffin@kpmg.com Sun Feb 24 10:32:41 2002 Received: from p0016c23.us.kpmg.com ([199.207.255.23]) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16f0dl-0000BF-00 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:32:41 -0500 Received: from p0016c56 (p0016c54.us.kpmg.com [199.207.255.54]) by p0016c23.us.kpmg.com (Switch-2.2.1/Switch-2.2.0) with SMTP id g1OFWds19726 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:32:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from p0016c21.us.kworld.kpmg.com by p0016c56 via smtpd (for [199.207.255.23]) with SMTP; 24 Feb 2002 15:32:36 UT Received: from usnssexc02.us.kworld.kpmg.com by kpmg.com(Switch-2.2.1/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id g1OFWaS11210 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:32:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from usnssexc02.us.kworld.kpmg.com (unverified) by usnssexc02.us.kworld.kpmg.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:32:33 -0500 Received: by usnssexc02.us.kworld.kpmg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.89) id ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:32:33 -0500 Message-Id: <23421AE30168D311A1060008C75F34B803D7CB62@uslaxexc08.us.kworld.kpmg.com> From: "Coffin, Zachary P" To: "'Todd Boyle'" , Neil Tiffin , "Derek A. Neighbors" , Ke Deng Cc: GNUe , "Robert Lemense (r.lemense@belgacom.net)" , "Eric E. Cohen (eric.e.cohen@us.pwcglobal.com)" Subject: RE: ERP standards Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:32:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.89) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Todd, you really, really do the world a great disservice. I=E2=80=99m = sure anyone reading your posts, probably thinks you=E2=80=99re an okay guy. I used = to be your champion even. But let me just say, anyone on this list who = hasn=E2=80=99t yet met Todd, should beware; those of you who have, already know what = I=E2=80=99m talking about. Now let me back that up - Todd=E2=80=99s statement: =E2=80=9Cthe XBRL GL which is occasionally released to the public = after it's been decided by their members=E2=80=9D Fact: XBRL International has released the *DRAFT* GL taxonomy for public = review and comment several times. That=E2=80=99s why we have offered it to = the world for comment. The GL has not yet been released as a XBRL standard. Zack Opinion: Wonder why Todd wants to misrepresent the facts. Todd=E2=80=99s statement: =E2=80=9CInevitably our three GL groups will zero in on the accurate = picture and combine the models. Meanwhile they don't talk to me so, I can't tell = you what the h*ll they are up to.=E2=80=9D Fact: XBRL and UN/CEFACT announced a liaison/alliance to tackle this area a = year ago. You know that. You=E2=80=99ve known it a long time - http://www.xbrl.org/PressRoom/XBRL-PR-05162001.htm =20 Zack Opinion: Wonder why Todd wants to misrepresent others. Todd=E2=80=99s statement: =E2=80=9CI actually was stupid enough to fly to Orlando in December to = meet with the XBRL GL group. For a full 8-hour day, they did maintain an = astonishing wall of confidentiality, just as CPAs do in commercial negotiations, = never disclosing anything of their positions in design of a general ledger = schema or economic ontology.=E2=80=9D Fact: Unverifiable. His words against ours. Zack Opinion: As one of the participants in that meeting, let me just assure you = that I have zero interest in meeting with someone for 8 hours on a Saturday = merely to =E2=80=9Cmaintain an astonishing wall of confidentiality.=E2=80=9D = Was that really my purpose? No, it was the same reason as why XBRL was in Orlando in the = first place. We sponsored the first Interoperability Summit with OMG, OAG, = OASIS, UN/CEFACT and HR-XML. Does anyone really think I=E2=80=99d maintain = some =E2=80=9Cwall of confidentiality=E2=80=9D for 8 hours? Listen, why waste the time. If = that=E2=80=99s all we did, why did we even bother staying more than 10 minutes? Why not go = enjoy our Saturday. No, we made a last final attempt to work with Todd. I = used to be Todd=E2=80=99s champion. I=E2=80=99ve given up. So, in general, I wonder why Todd wants to describe things the way he = does. Let me guess. Is it because he=E2=80=99s as biased as everyone else? Todd=E2=80=99s NEVER-MADE statement: =E2=80=9CI=E2=80=99m as biased as everyone else.=E2=80=9D Fact: Todd Boyle works for NetAccount, a commercial company. Zack Opinion: Everyone has some human bias. But the difference between Todd/ArapXML = and XBRL International (or Todd and the rest of the world), is that the = first is driven by ONE person/company and the second is a group process - in = XBRL=E2=80=99s case, 150 vendors, accounting firms, users, regulators, etc. from = around the world WORKING TOGETHER. Trust me, not just in Todd=E2=80=99s case, but = always, the collaborative standards approach is safer. Everyone knows Todd only = wants things HIS way (or, maybe I should say, NetAccount=E2=80=99s way). But = that=E2=80=99s not how standards are created. You don=E2=80=99t have a standard unless = your users, vendors, regulators and competitors are sitting at the table arguing = with and against you -- to produce the standards. That=E2=80=99s XBRL. On top of it all, Todd even criticizes the UN with =E2=80=9Cthe = UN/CEFACT bodies only conduct their dialog in private discussions, and in physical = meetings every 6 months in international locations, usually outside the = US.=E2=80=9D What would he like - that all the meetings be in the U.S. so that poorer countries criticize it as a U.S. thing? And Todd, it=E2=80=99s really = pretty bad when you attack a guy like Robert Lemense - who=E2=80=99s put years of = his life into standards - when you say, =E2=80=9CThe guy is 65, he is part of the = French EDI establishment.=E2=80=9D That=E2=80=99s as bad as if someone said, = =E2=80=9CThat guy=E2=80=99s only 18 - what does he know?=E2=80=9D Anyone who wants to learn more about XBRL, please go to www.xbrl.org. = If you want to learn more about XBRL specifically for G/L, go to http://www.xbrl.org/gl/gl.htm, or for more detail, http://www.xbrl.org/gl/gldash.htm. XBRL is creating the standards for financial statements, G/L, = regulatory filings, statistics, etc. - anything that describes an = organization=E2=80=99s performance or risk. We are working from the sub-ledger to = macro-economic statistics - the whole information reporting supply chain. Somewhere this thread began with a question about ERP standards. SAP, Oracle, Peoplesoft, Fujitsu (yes, in Japan, they have ERP software), = etc. are all members of XBRL. SAP is scheduled to be XBRL compliant this = year - second quarter if I=E2=80=99m not mistaken. Now, here=E2=80=99s the part where Todd says it just the big companies. = No, XBRL is for any organization, including SMEs, government agencies, non-profit organizations, etc. We=E2=80=99re even opening up a new category of = membership, for academics or individuals non-affiliated with a company. In the = meantime, the following organizations are members of XBRL and have COMMITTED to XBRL-enabling their products or services - ACCPAC International, Inc. ACL Services Ltd. Acumen Alliance Advisor Technology Services American Institute of Certified Public Accountants Andersen Anthem Software Asia Securities Printing Co., Ltd. Aspect Computing Audicon Audit Software Systems Pty Ltd Australian and New Zealand Banking Group Limited Australian Prudential Regulation Authority Australian Stock Exchange BDO Seidman, LLP Beacon IT Inc. Best Software Bowne & Co., Inc. Bridge News Bryant College Business Wire Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants Capital Printing Systems, Inc. CaseWare International Inc. Certified General Accountants Association of Canada Chuo System Service Co, Ltd Coca-Cola Amatil (AU) Cogniant, Inc. Count-net.com SA CPA Australia CPA2Biz Creative Solutions Crowe Chizek and Co., LLP DATEV e.G. Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Deutsche Bank Deutsche B=C3=B6rse AG Deutsche Bundesbank Deutsche Vereinigung f=C3=BCr Finanzanalyse und Asset Mgt. Deutsches Rechnungslegungs Standards Committee e.V. Digital Notarization Authority Diva Corporation Dow Jones & Co., Inc. Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein EDGAR Online Inc. eKeeper.com eLedger.com, Inc. Elemental Interactive e-Numerate Solutions, Inc. ePace! Software ePartners, Inc. Epicor Software Corp. Ernst & Young, LLP eStilil Co., Ltd. Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (U.S.) Fidelity Investments Financial Reporting Solutions Financial Software Group FinArch First Light Communications, Inc. FRx Software Corp. Fujitsu Ltd. Fujitsu Prime Software Technologies Limited Fujitsu Research Institute Gcom2 Solutions General Electric Company Gerringong HiTech Pty Ltd Global Filings, Inc. Grant Thornton, LLP Haarmann, Hemmelrath & Partner Hitachi Hitachi System & Services, Ltd. HOLT Value Associates Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing Hong Kong Registrar of Companies Hong Kong Society of Accountants Hyperion Solutions Corp. IBM UBMatrix.com I-Lumen, Inc. Information Management Australia Information Planning Infoteria Corp. InnoData GmbH (Semansys Technologies) Innovision Institut der Wirtschaftspr=C3=BCfer (IdW) Institute of Certified Public Accountants in Singapore Institute of Chartered Accountants in Australia Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales Institute of Chartered Accountants in Ireland Institute of Management Accountants (U.S.) International Accounting Standards Board (IASB) International Federation of Accountants (IFAC) Ipswich City Council = (AU) Japan Information Service Industry Association Japan Notary = Organization Japanese Institute Of Certified Public Accountants KPMG Consulting, Inc. KPMG International Lawson Software Macquarie Bank Media Fusion Co., Ltd. Microsoft Corp. Microsoft Great Plains MIP, Inc. MIS Deutschland GmbH Moody=E2=80=99s Risk Management Services, Inc. Morgan Stanley Multex.com, Inc. MYOB National Center of Charitable Statistics (U.S.) National Information Infrastructure Enterprise Promotion Association (Taiwan) NavisionDamgaard Software NEC Corporation NetLedger, Inc. New River, Inc. Nihombashi Corporation Nihon Intersystems Co., Ltd. Nihon Keizai Shimbun, Inc NTT Data Corporation Oracle Corporation Japan PCA Corporation PeopleSoft Pitcher Partners PPA Gesellschaft f=C3=BCr Finanzanalyse & Benchmarks mbH Practitioners Publishing Company PricewaterhouseCoopers Quicken (AU) R.R. Donnelly Financial Reuters RIA Software RMIT University Royal Bank of Canada Royal NIVRA (Netherlands) Sage Software SAP AG Seattle Pacific University Center for Professional Development Shin = Nihon & Co. Smithink Pty Ltd Software AG Solution 6 Standard and Poor=E2=80=99s Statistics Canada Syspro Group Takara Printing Co., Ltd. Teikoku Databank, Ltd. Japanese Institute of Certified Public Accountants The Woodburn Group Thomson Financial Tokyo Shoko Research, Ltd. Toshiba Corporation Toyo Keizai, Inc. U.S. Census Bureau U.S. Dept. of Defense (DFAS) Visionart, Inc WebXcentric WMC Limited XSI (formerly XBRL Solutions, Inc.) The world is moving towards this single business reporting framework. = I encourage those of you interested in standards, to get involved. As a start, please register at www.xbrl.org and go to and review the = messages at http://www.yahoogroups.com/xbrl-public. Thanks for your consideration. Regards, Zack P.S. Todd/Mr.NetAccount, since you=E2=80=99ve attacked Eric and Robert = behind their back, I=E2=80=99ve taken the liberty of cc=E2=80=99ing them on this = email in case they want to add anything. I think people want to know the truth. Zachary Coffin =E3=82=B6=E3=83=83=E3=82=AB=E3=83=AA=E3=83=BC = =E3=82=B3=E3=83=83=E3=83=95=E3=82=A3=E3=83=B3 XBRL International Steering Committee zpc1@columbia.edu KPMG Global XBRL Leader 355 South Grand Avenue, Suite 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90071-1568 USA Tel: +1-213-955-8508 * Fax: +1-213-630-5196 Email: zcoffin@kpmg.com -----Original Message----- From: Todd Boyle [mailto:tboyle@rosehill.net]=20 Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 7:41 PM To: Neil Tiffin; Derek A. Neighbors; Ke Deng Cc: GNUe Subject: Re: ERP standards >>please feel free to enlighten me if a standard exists that is = practical. Neil, your comments are quite rational. I agree, without reservations, there has not been any standard for the exchange of transactions among = the internal applications of a company that had sufficient following to = provide any payoffs. OAGIS, could have been a candidate. But it has some fundamental weaknesses. ERP is not even a candidate inasmuch as it = ignores the 50 million SMEs in the world. Now in 2002 you have three broad choices. 1. General Ledger standards - By this I mean, standard conceptual = elements and standard names for things like transaction dates, times, parties, accounts, etc. necessary for exchange of information to/from accounting = or business systems. There are three groups on the planet, today, who = give a damn about GL standards. - Eric Cohen and his group at the XBRL Consortium, - Robert Lemense and the D14 domain committee of EDIFACT, and, - our group at ArapXML who produced the OMG GL and OMG AR/AP models, = and are members of the OMG and the Core Components workgroup of UN/CEFACT. Inevitably our three GL groups will zero in on the accurate picture and combine the models. Meanwhile they don't talk to me so, I can't tell = you what the h*ll they are up to. XBRL does not listen to anybody or share their work in progress, or allow your vote on it, unless you're either = a target for their XBRL Framework, or, paying the $10,000 annual dues. = Thats $800/month, for the privilege of then, contributing even more money and = time to build the standards. I actually was stupid enough to fly to Orlando in December to meet with = the XBRL GL group. For a full 8-hour day, they did maintain an astonishing = wall of confidentiality, just as CPAs do in commercial negotiations, never disclosing anything of their positions in design of a general ledger = schema or economic ontology. The UN/CEFACT bodies only conduct their dialog in private discussions, = and in physical meetings every 6 months in international locations, usually outside the US. In that sense they are like the Davos group. I have = asked many times for any drafts or even discussions of principle design, but = the invariable result from this group is some assertions of political = process, releases of whatever new regulatory body they have created. = Supposedly, the D14 of the UN/CEFACT will publish some kind of GL model soon, perhaps = at the Barcelona meeting in Spain, in March. Here is a typical encounter with Robert Lemense who never participates = on technical or design discussions. The guy is 65, he is part of the = French EDI establishment. He was a champion of ENTREC. http://lists.ebtwg.org/archives/ebtwg-ccs/200111/msg00084.html http://lists.ebtwg.org/archives/ebtwg-ccs/200111/msg00092.html Bear in mind, the world is not beating down the doors looking for a GL specification or even a family of EAI integration schemas like OAGIS, = SMBXML or QBXML. They happen to work pretty well. But what difference does = that make if *none* of the commercial software vendors is utilizing them? = other than perhaps, their own proprietary interface (if you're lucky) It is only the individual and SME who really needs a GL standard... 2. e-business integration standards. Obviously, the number of industry specific semantic models has grown, = and have gotten much more detailed and accurate in every industry. Look at = all these diverse standards! --new and old, continuing to evolve and = develop. http://www.diffuse.org/0201-ec.html http://www.diffuse.org/0112-ec.html There's also the nearly daily news on Robin Cover pages, but that is = just within the universe of XML (technology-specific), = http://xml.coverpages.org/ These are not bad news and these, are the real battleground where e- business semantics are being forged. Not the centeralized standard bodies. So, the question is, similar to General Ledger interface standards: how can horizontal interop. be achieved in a world of = excellent vertical schemas being used in every industry? There are two answers = really. Bigtime mapping infrastructures like Biztalk Server or EAI platforms, = or, hopefully, some future metadata registry and open source code, that = enables developers toachieve mapping more easily. 3. The Core Components framework. Core Components is the common metadata architecture that applies the principles of ISO 11179 to the business domain. This is a very large subject and the place to start is perhaps reading some easy warmups, = from the magazines on the web. Core components technical specification provides the rules, for = designing semantic elements. Users can combine them anyway they like. This is = not about prescribing anything, it is about nailing down the most obvious = and wellknown entities like dates, parties, locations, products, contacts, = and the vocabulary for commitments and fulfillments. These conceptual = entities are already well established in contract law. There is no doubt, their = brief definitions can be stacked up like a dictionary, with unique = identifiers, and we can all get down the road with a single language. The Core Components framework removes the infighting over the naming of = the element, or the syntax of expressing it as EDI, XML etc. or national biases or *any other objection.* Since it is fundamentally a dictionary of atomic elements, you can assemble them into any document = you desire. There is no doubt, this is the way forward. Core components can describe all of those excellent vertical XML schemas. They don't have = to cooperate and they can wish it wasn't true. Nothing can stop you from creating a core component version of AnythingXML, which is therby, interoperable to some degree, with your own component model. Nothing = can stop me from interoperating with Robert Lemenses' thing if he ever = publishes it, or with the XBRL GL which is occasionally released to the public = after it's been decided by their members. And, nothing will stop the users of = ARAP GLIE's from abandoning it and adopting the XBRL or the UN/CEFACT GL. This is where my fingers get tired. You really should install Poseidon = and join with Arne and I to continue the work on the version 2 of ARAP Submission to the OMG with its associated set of Core Component = semantics. Let's make it just better. The registry is a meritocracy. Regardless = of whoever discovers, and correctly defines, the atomic entities, or the correctly designed aggregate entities, they will be there for 100 = years. Picture yourself during the renaissance, when scholars argued over the definitions in the Oxford dictionary. That's what's happening here, = except that it will not take long. A couple more years. Thanks for listening if you're still there, Todd Todd Boyle CPA 9745-128th Ave NE Kirkland WA International Accounting Services, LLC www.gldialtone.com tboyle@rosehill.net 425-827-3107 project www.arapxml.net > At 04:04 PM 2/23/02, Neil Tiffin wrote: > At 3:18 PM -0800 2/23/02, Todd Boyle wrote: >> GNUE project is certainly not unique in ignoring various >> standards of course. We should count our blessings and >> salute Neil, Derek, and other key developers for their generosity = >> in offering this open source project to the community. They're > > = Having worked with GNUE for almost 2 years I think the issue is NOT the > = lack of desire to use standards. I for one would much rather use > someone = else's prior work in the form of standards instead of trying to > create a = beast from scratch. > > My problem is that I am not an accountant and don't = have the time to > sort through all of the noise (standards that are being proposed, but > will never be implemented or represent an accepted standard). > > I have not found an accounting standard that applies = to GNUe. There are > all sorts of standard that are vying for control of = how accounting is > done. But I have not found one that is geared for = internal systems. > Most of the ones mentioned, so far, have been for data interchange and > they are not currently practical for high volume transactions internal > to a company. > > Of course, my look at accounting standard has only been cursory, so > please feel free to enlighten me if a standard exists that is practical. > > Neil _______________________________________________ Gnue mailing list Gnue@gnu.org http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue ***************************************************************************** The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. When addressed to our clients any opinions or advice contained in this email are subject to the terms and conditions expressed in the governing KPMG client engagement letter. ***************************************************************************** From jens@unfaehig.de Sun Feb 24 10:51:19 2002 Received: from mailout10.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.21]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16f0vn-0001Bz-00 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:51:19 -0500 Received: from fwd07.sul.t-online.de by mailout10.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16f0vV-00051R-00; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 16:51:01 +0100 Received: from debian.enode.de (510013902217-0001@[217.228.101.48]) by fmrl07.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 16f0vB-2Ar74qC; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 16:50:41 +0100 Received: from jens by debian.enode.de with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16f0vx-0001Se-00; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 16:51:29 +0100 To: gnue@gnu.org Cc: info@gnue.org Subject: Re: New law concerning electronic commerce References: <200202232020.g1NKK4A06886@npnmail.transliti.com> Date: 24 Feb 2002 16:42:28 +0100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: "Jens =?iso-8859-1?q?M=FCller?=" Mail-Copies-To: never Lines: 22 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Sender: 510013902217-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Neil Tiffin writes: > >> Thanks this has been added to: > >> > >> packages/base/person/doc/person.sgml > > > >Cool. Any possibility to list me as an author? > > > >Btw: I will soon be writing something about "General storage and > >access control requirements with respect to privacy regulations." > sure, do we have an Assignment from you for GNUe? No, not yet. But anyway: If you don't have an assignment, you cannot circumvent this fact by just not metioning that I wrote it. ;-) Well, I'm CCing info@gnue.org with this to get information on copyright assignment. I will first write and edit documentation ... -- Please don't CC me on replies! From ntiffin@earthlink.net Sun Feb 24 12:05:59 2002 Received: from custmail0.corp.aus.wayport.net ([216.12.231.21]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16f263-0006Tl-00 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 12:05:59 -0500 Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dhcp64-134-54-184.chan.dca.wayport.net [64.134.54.184]) by custmail0.corp.aus.wayport.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1OH6tX29408; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:06:55 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: ntiffin@pop.earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <200202232020.g1NKK4A06886@npnmail.transliti.com> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:59:37 -0500 To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Jens_M=FCller=22?= , gnue@gnu.org From: Neil Tiffin Subject: [gnue-info] Re: New law concerning electronic commerce Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: You have been added as contributor. Neil At 4:42 PM +0100 2/24/02, Jens M=FCller wrote: >Neil Tiffin writes: > >> >> Thanks this has been added to: >> >> >> >> packages/base/person/doc/person.sgml >> > >> >Cool. Any possibility to list me as an author? >> > >> >Btw: I will soon be writing something about "General storage and >> >access control requirements with respect to privacy regulations." > >> sure, do we have an Assignment from you for GNUe? > >No, not yet. But anyway: If you don't have an assignment, you cannot >circumvent this fact by just not metioning that I wrote it. ;-) > >Well, I'm CCing info@gnue.org with this to get information on >copyright assignment. > >I will first write and edit documentation ... >-- >Please don't CC me on replies! >_______________________________________________ >gnue-info mailing list >gnue-info@lists.gnue.org >http://lists.gnue.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue-info From jens@unfaehig.de Sun Feb 24 13:20:23 2002 Received: from mailout08.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.20]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16f3G3-0003iw-00 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 13:20:23 -0500 Received: from fwd11.sul.t-online.de by mailout08.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16f2HY-0002Qm-02; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 18:17:52 +0100 Received: from debian.enode.de (510013902217-0001@[217.228.101.48]) by fmrl11.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 16f2HI-2FOQ6qC; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 18:17:36 +0100 Received: from jens by debian.enode.de with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16f2I4-0002nk-00 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 18:18:24 +0100 To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: [gnue-info] Re: New law concerning electronic commerce References: <200202232020.g1NKK4A06886@npnmail.transliti.com> Date: 24 Feb 2002 18:18:07 +0100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: "Jens =?iso-8859-1?q?M=FCller?=" Mail-Copies-To: never Lines: 7 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Sender: 510013902217-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Neil Tiffin writes: > You have been added as contributor. Please take jm@enode.de as my e-mail address. -- Please don't CC me on replies! From jens@unfaehig.de Sun Feb 24 14:25:47 2002 Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16f4HL-0000Xe-00 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:25:47 -0500 Received: from fwd01.sul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16f4HJ-0001Wv-00; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:25:45 +0100 Received: from debian.enode.de (510013902217-0001@[217.228.101.48]) by fmrl01.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 16f4H2-1a2U64C; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:25:28 +0100 Received: from jens by debian.enode.de with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16f4Hp-00051A-00 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:26:17 +0100 To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Docs: GNUeObjectServer Date: 24 Feb 2002 20:25:29 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Jens =?iso-8859-1?q?M=FCller?=" Mail-Copies-To: never Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Sender: 510013902217-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Just noticed in http://www.gnuenterprise.org/docs/GNUeObjectServer.pdf, Chapter 10: "Initially such code will be written in Python, but there is no convincing reason why other languages should be forbidden. The" There the paragraph ends. Should be fixed. -- Please don't CC me on replies! From jens@unfaehig.de Sun Feb 24 14:32:40 2002 Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.81]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16f4O0-00029u-00 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:32:40 -0500 Received: from fwd09.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16f4Nv-0003lT-0E; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:32:35 +0100 Received: from debian.enode.de (510013902217-0001@[217.228.101.48]) by fmrl09.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 16f4Np-03Gf2mC; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:32:29 +0100 Received: from jens by debian.enode.de with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16f4Oc-00053H-00 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:33:18 +0100 To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: [gnue-info] Re: New law concerning electronic commerce References: <200202232020.g1NKK4A06886@npnmail.transliti.com> Date: 24 Feb 2002 20:32:54 +0100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: "Jens =?iso-8859-1?q?M=FCller?=" Mail-Copies-To: never Lines: 19 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Sender: 510013902217-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: "Jens M=FCller" writes: > > You have been added as contributor. >=20 > Please take jm@enode.de as my e-mail address. Like this: jens@debian:~/devel/gnu/gnuenterprise/gnue$ cvs diff -e packages/base/pers= on/doc/person.sgml Index: packages/base/person/doc/person.sgml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D RCS file: /cvsroot/gnue/gnue/packages/base/person/doc/person.sgml,v retrieving revision 1.6 diff -e -r1.6 person.sgml 57c specific or identifiable person). Contributed by Jens M=FCller, <jm@eno= de.de>.=00 --=20 Please don't CC me on replies! From derek@gnue.org Mon Feb 25 01:32:00 2002 Received: from mail.libertydistribution.com ([65.101.4.210]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fEg3-0002vO-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 01:31:59 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9BB3F1CC6D3; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 23:31:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from gnue.org (cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net [24.221.112.50]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 576201CC6D2; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 23:31:32 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3C79DBD7.7010300@gnue.org> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 23:38:15 -0700 From: "Derek A. Neighbors" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20010917 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Coffin, Zachary P" Cc: 'Todd Boyle' , Neil Tiffin , Ke Deng , GNUe , "Robert Lemense (r.lemense@belgacom.net)" , "Eric E. Cohen (eric.e.cohen@us.pwcglobal.com)" Subject: Re: XRBL & Other Goodies References: <23421AE30168D311A1060008C75F34B803D7CB62@uslaxexc08.us.kworld.kpmg.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I like facts. >Fact: > XBRL International has released the *DRAFT* GL taxonomy for public review >and comment several times. That’s why we have offered it to the world for >comment. The GL has not yet been released as a XBRL standard. > Im lazy can you give a link to the latest draft of this document? >So, in general, I wonder why Todd wants to describe things the way he does. >Let me guess. Is it because he’s as biased as everyone else? > Assumably. I think this is my greatest problem with 'standard bodies' of late. If it requires a lofty membership fee to participate and is created by 'vendors' I think it is bound to be biased. When I look at things that appear to have most impact currently like TCP/IP and HTML (w3c) for a large part they were not originally this way. (though I could be delusional) I think the trouble is that you want the 'experts' in a field so you invite top vendors (though the 'little' voices that are experts are 'excluded') I think membership fees are two fold, first they help put some money into the overhead of a standards body, but I suspect they are more to make sure that those people having 'say' in the standard are serious and willing to put down some cash to prove it. (keep out the riff raff) HOWEVER, again this hurts the little guy ESPECIALLY 'FREE SOFTWARE' developers. >Anyone who wants to learn more about XBRL, please go to www.xbrl.org. If >you want to learn more about XBRL specifically for G/L, go to >http://www.xbrl.org/gl/gl.htm, or for more detail, >http://www.xbrl.org/gl/gldash.htm. > Forget my earlier request for a URL. >XBRL is creating the standards for financial statements, G/L, regulatory >filings, statistics, etc. - anything that describes an organization’s >performance or risk. We are working from the sub-ledger to macro-economic >statistics - the whole information reporting supply chain. > Do you plan on releasing things for peformance metrics or things like balanced scorecard? Also, are you strictly commericial oriented or will you delve into the Public Sector and do things similar to GASBY? >Now, here’s the part where Todd says it just the big companies. No, XBRL is >for any organization, including SMEs, government agencies, non-profit >organizations, etc. We’re even opening up a new category of membership, for >academics or individuals non-affiliated with a company. In the meantime, >the following organizations are members of XBRL and have COMMITTED to >XBRL-enabling their products or services - > I would be interested in more information on this for GNU Enterprise. To us standards we have no say in because we have no money, is like being an artist told to sing someone elses lyrics all the time with no input. So if new 'membership' means you get the specifications but have no voice thats not much of a membership. Its like being allowed to come to the country club, but only to cut the grass. ;) GNU Enterprise in its very architecture is designed to support virtually any standard, but I have a hard time propogating the use of standards that are not truly open/free for the best minds regardless of income to have input into. Many thanks for taking the time to tell the other side of the story. -Derek >ACCPAC International, Inc. ACL Services Ltd. >Acumen Alliance Advisor Technology Services >American Institute of Certified Public Accountants Andersen >Anthem Software Asia Securities Printing Co., Ltd. >Aspect Computing Audicon >Audit Software Systems Pty Ltd Australian and New Zealand Banking Group >Limited >Australian Prudential Regulation Authority Australian Stock Exchange >BDO Seidman, LLP Beacon IT Inc. >Best Software Bowne & Co., Inc. >Bridge News Bryant College >Business Wire Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants >Capital Printing Systems, Inc. CaseWare International Inc. >Certified General Accountants Association of Canada Chuo System Service >Co, Ltd >Coca-Cola Amatil (AU) Cogniant, Inc. >Count-net.com SA CPA Australia >CPA2Biz Creative Solutions >Crowe Chizek and Co., LLP DATEV e.G. >Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Deutsche Bank >Deutsche Börse AG Deutsche Bundesbank >Deutsche Vereinigung für Finanzanalyse und Asset Mgt. Deutsches >Rechnungslegungs Standards Committee e.V. >Digital Notarization Authority Diva Corporation >Dow Jones & Co., Inc. Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein >EDGAR Online Inc. eKeeper.com >eLedger.com, Inc. Elemental Interactive >e-Numerate Solutions, Inc. ePace! Software >ePartners, Inc. Epicor Software Corp. >Ernst & Young, LLP eStilil Co., Ltd. >Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (U.S.) Fidelity Investments >Financial Reporting Solutions Financial Software Group >FinArch First Light Communications, Inc. >FRx Software Corp. Fujitsu Ltd. >Fujitsu Prime Software Technologies Limited Fujitsu Research Institute >Gcom2 Solutions General Electric Company >Gerringong HiTech Pty Ltd Global Filings, Inc. >Grant Thornton, LLP Haarmann, Hemmelrath & Partner >Hitachi Hitachi System & Services, Ltd. >HOLT Value Associates Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing >Hong Kong Registrar of Companies Hong Kong Society of Accountants >Hyperion Solutions Corp. IBM >UBMatrix.com I-Lumen, Inc. >Information Management Australia Information Planning >Infoteria Corp. InnoData GmbH (Semansys Technologies) >Innovision Institut der Wirtschaftsprüfer (IdW) >Institute of Certified Public Accountants in Singapore Institute of >Chartered Accountants in Australia >Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales Institute of >Chartered Accountants in Ireland >Institute of Management Accountants (U.S.) International Accounting >Standards Board (IASB) >International Federation of Accountants (IFAC) Ipswich City Council (AU) >Japan Information Service Industry Association Japan Notary Organization >Japanese Institute Of Certified Public Accountants KPMG Consulting, >Inc. >KPMG International Lawson Software >Macquarie Bank Media Fusion Co., Ltd. >Microsoft Corp. Microsoft Great Plains >MIP, Inc. MIS Deutschland GmbH >Moody’s Risk Management Services, Inc. Morgan Stanley >Multex.com, Inc. MYOB >National Center of Charitable Statistics (U.S.) National Information >Infrastructure Enterprise Promotion Association (Taiwan) >NavisionDamgaard Software NEC Corporation >NetLedger, Inc. New River, Inc. >Nihombashi Corporation Nihon Intersystems Co., Ltd. >Nihon Keizai Shimbun, Inc NTT Data Corporation >Oracle Corporation Japan PCA Corporation >PeopleSoft Pitcher Partners >PPA Gesellschaft für Finanzanalyse & Benchmarks mbH Practitioners >Publishing Company >PricewaterhouseCoopers Quicken (AU) >R.R. Donnelly Financial Reuters >RIA Software RMIT University >Royal Bank of Canada Royal NIVRA (Netherlands) >Sage Software SAP AG >Seattle Pacific University Center for Professional Development Shin Nihon & >Co. >Smithink Pty Ltd Software AG >Solution 6 Standard and Poor’s >Statistics Canada Syspro Group >Takara Printing Co., Ltd. Teikoku Databank, Ltd. >Japanese Institute of Certified Public Accountants The Woodburn Group >Thomson Financial Tokyo Shoko Research, Ltd. >Toshiba Corporation Toyo Keizai, Inc. >U.S. Census Bureau U.S. Dept. of Defense (DFAS) >Visionart, Inc WebXcentric >WMC Limited XSI (formerly XBRL Solutions, Inc.) > >The world is moving towards this single business reporting framework. I >encourage those of you interested in standards, to get involved. As a >start, please register at www.xbrl.org and go to and review the messages at >http://www.yahoogroups.com/xbrl-public. > >Thanks for your consideration. > >Regards, > >Zack > > >P.S. Todd/Mr.NetAccount, since you’ve attacked Eric and Robert behind their >back, I’ve taken the liberty of cc’ing them on this email in case they want >to add anything. I think people want to know the truth. > > >Zachary Coffin >ザッカリー コッフィン >XBRL International Steering Committee >zpc1@columbia.edu > > >KPMG Global XBRL Leader >355 South Grand Avenue, Suite 2000 >Los Angeles, CA 90071-1568 USA >Tel: +1-213-955-8508 * Fax: +1-213-630-5196 >Email: zcoffin@kpmg.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Todd Boyle [mailto:tboyle@rosehill.net] >Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 7:41 PM >To: Neil Tiffin; Derek A. Neighbors; Ke Deng >Cc: GNUe >Subject: Re: ERP standards > > > >>please feel free to enlighten me if a standard exists that is practical. > >Neil, your comments are quite rational. I agree, without reservations, >there has not been any standard for the exchange of transactions among the >internal applications of a company that had sufficient following to provide >any payoffs. OAGIS, could have been a candidate. But it has some >fundamental weaknesses. ERP is not even a candidate inasmuch as it ignores >the 50 million SMEs in the world. > >Now in 2002 you have three broad choices. > >1. General Ledger standards - By this I mean, standard conceptual elements >and standard names for things like transaction dates, times, parties, >accounts, etc. necessary for exchange of information to/from accounting or >business systems. There are three groups on the planet, today, who give a >damn about GL standards. > >- Eric Cohen and his group at the XBRL Consortium, >- Robert Lemense and the D14 domain committee of EDIFACT, and, >- our group at ArapXML who produced the OMG GL and OMG AR/AP models, and are >members of the OMG and the Core Components workgroup of UN/CEFACT. > >Inevitably our three GL groups will zero in on the accurate picture and >combine the models. Meanwhile they don't talk to me so, I can't tell you >what the h*ll they are up to. XBRL does not listen to anybody or share >their work in progress, or allow your vote on it, unless you're either a >target for their XBRL Framework, or, paying the $10,000 annual dues. Thats >$800/month, for the privilege of then, contributing even more money and time >to build the standards. > >I actually was stupid enough to fly to Orlando in December to meet with the >XBRL GL group. For a full 8-hour day, they did maintain an astonishing wall >of confidentiality, just as CPAs do in commercial negotiations, never >disclosing anything of their positions in design of a general ledger schema >or economic ontology. > >The UN/CEFACT bodies only conduct their dialog in private discussions, and >in physical meetings every 6 months in international locations, usually >outside the US. In that sense they are like the Davos group. I have asked >many times for any drafts or even discussions of principle design, but the >invariable result from this group is some assertions of political process, >releases of whatever new regulatory body they have created. Supposedly, the >D14 of the UN/CEFACT will publish some kind of GL model soon, perhaps at the >Barcelona meeting in Spain, in March. > >Here is a typical encounter with Robert Lemense who never participates on >technical or design discussions. The guy is 65, he is part of the French >EDI establishment. He was a champion of ENTREC. > >http://lists.ebtwg.org/archives/ebtwg-ccs/200111/msg00084.html >http://lists.ebtwg.org/archives/ebtwg-ccs/200111/msg00092.html > >Bear in mind, the world is not beating down the doors looking for a GL >specification or even a family of EAI integration schemas like OAGIS, SMBXML >or QBXML. They happen to work pretty well. But what difference does that >make if *none* of the commercial software vendors is utilizing them? other >than perhaps, their own proprietary interface (if you're lucky) > >It is only the individual and SME who really needs a GL standard... > >2. e-business integration standards. > >Obviously, the number of industry specific semantic models has grown, and >have gotten much more detailed and accurate in every industry. Look at all >these diverse standards! --new and old, continuing to evolve and develop. > >http://www.diffuse.org/0201-ec.html >http://www.diffuse.org/0112-ec.html > >There's also the nearly daily news on Robin Cover pages, but that is just >within the universe of XML (technology-specific), http://xml.coverpages.org/ > >These are not bad news and these, are the real battleground where e- >business semantics are being forged. Not the centeralized standard >bodies. So, the question is, similar to General Ledger interface >standards: how can horizontal interop. be achieved in a world of excellent >vertical schemas being used in every industry? There are two answers really. >Bigtime mapping infrastructures like Biztalk Server or EAI platforms, or, >hopefully, some future metadata registry and open source code, that enables >developers toachieve mapping more easily. > >3. The Core Components framework. > >Core Components is the common metadata architecture that applies the >principles of ISO 11179 to the business domain. This is a very large >subject and the place to start is perhaps reading some easy warmups, from >the magazines on the web. > >Core components technical specification provides the rules, for designing >semantic elements. Users can combine them anyway they like. This is not >about prescribing anything, it is about nailing down the most obvious and >wellknown entities like dates, parties, locations, products, contacts, and >the vocabulary for commitments and fulfillments. These conceptual entities >are already well established in contract law. There is no doubt, their brief >definitions can be stacked up like a dictionary, with unique identifiers, >and we can all get down the road with a single language. > >The Core Components framework removes the infighting over the naming of the >element, or the syntax of expressing it as EDI, XML etc. or national >biases or *any other objection.* Since it is fundamentally a >dictionary of atomic elements, you can assemble them into any document you >desire. There is no doubt, this is the way forward. Core components can >describe all of those excellent vertical XML schemas. They don't have to >cooperate and they can wish it wasn't true. Nothing can stop you from >creating a core component version of AnythingXML, which is therby, >interoperable to some degree, with your own component model. Nothing can >stop me from interoperating with Robert Lemenses' thing if he ever publishes >it, or with the XBRL GL which is occasionally released to the public after >it's been decided by their members. And, nothing will stop the users of ARAP >GLIE's from abandoning it and adopting the XBRL or the UN/CEFACT GL. > >This is where my fingers get tired. You really should install Poseidon and >join with Arne and I to continue the work on the version 2 of ARAP >Submission to the OMG with its associated set of Core Component semantics. >Let's make it just better. The registry is a meritocracy. Regardless of >whoever discovers, and correctly defines, the atomic entities, or the >correctly designed aggregate entities, they will be there for 100 years. >Picture yourself during the renaissance, when scholars argued over the >definitions in the Oxford dictionary. That's what's happening here, except >that it will not take long. A couple more years. > >Thanks for listening if you're still there, >Todd >Todd Boyle CPA 9745-128th Ave NE Kirkland WA >International Accounting Services, LLC www.gldialtone.com >tboyle@rosehill.net 425-827-3107 project www.arapxml.net > > > > > At 04:04 PM 2/23/02, Neil Tiffin wrote: > > At 3:18 PM -0800 2/23/02, Todd Boyle wrote: > >> GNUE project is certainly not unique in ignoring various > >> standards of course. We should count our blessings and > >> salute Neil, Derek, and other key developers for their generosity >> in >offering this open source project to the community. They're > > Having >worked with GNUE for almost 2 years I think the issue is NOT the > lack of >desire to use standards. I for one would much rather use > someone else's >prior work in the form of standards instead of trying to > create a beast >from scratch. > > My problem is that I am not an accountant and don't have >the time to > sort through all of the noise (standards that are being >proposed, but > will never be implemented or represent an accepted >standard). > > I have not found an accounting standard that applies to >GNUe. There are > all sorts of standard that are vying for control of how >accounting is > done. But I have not found one that is geared for internal >systems. > Most of the ones mentioned, so far, have been for data >interchange and > they are not currently practical for high volume >transactions internal > to a company. > > Of course, my look at >accounting standard has only been cursory, so > please feel free to >enlighten me if a standard exists that is practical. > > Neil > > >_______________________________________________ >Gnue mailing list >Gnue@gnu.org >http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue >***************************************************************************** >The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. >It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else >is unauthorized. > >If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution >or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited >and may be unlawful. When addressed to our clients any opinions or advice >contained in this email are subject to the terms and conditions expressed in >the governing KPMG client engagement letter. >***************************************************************************** > >_______________________________________________ >Gnue mailing list >Gnue@gnu.org >http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue > > From cbbrowne@cbbrowne.com Mon Feb 25 00:42:35 2002 Received: from tomts24.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.187] helo=tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fDuF-0007O8-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:42:35 -0500 Received: from cbbrowne.com ([64.229.212.252]) by tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020225053448.WGE25976.tomts23-srv.bellnexxia.net@cbbrowne.com> for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:34:48 -0500 Received: from cbbrowne.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cbbrowne.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B719424151 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:33:41 -0500 (EST) From: cbbrowne@acm.org To: "GNUe" Subject: Re: ERP Standards In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 24 Feb 2002 22:08:20 +0800." <00ca01c1bd3c$b8ff21a0$2700a8c0@creative> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:33:41 -0500 Message-Id: <20020225053341.B719424151@cbbrowne.com> Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 22:08:20 +0800, the world broke into rejoicing as "Ke Deng" said: > I agree with Todd in many aspects of what he said.I think if there's > no suitable standards for GNUe,we could create our own standards > referencing some existing ones. Todd has evidently "struck a nerve;" his position certainly sat at one pretty extreme end of opinionation, and he seems to be engaging some "bashing" that's not totally fair. I somewhat agree with the result, though from a quite different perspective. XBRL is all about _reporting_ standards. It doesn't say what fields there ought to be in particular accounting transactions; it instead speaks to how the summary report at the end of the year should get reported. Summarize the data, building a tree, and then do some mapping whereby you walk that tree, generating XML elements with suitable attributes, and you might get an XBRL document. There's certainly some merit in having some code and tables that could be used to do that "walk." But that says between zero and nothing about what fields ought to be on the screen when entering payroll information about employees. It is NOT something that would reasonably have any significant impact on the architecture of parts of GnuE other than some "financial reporting" module. What COULD, CONCEIVABLY, be of some value in influencing GnuE direction would be stuff along the lines of successor schemes to EDI, allowing quasi-standardized ways of exchanging data with business partners. For instance: - It would be nice to pull in transaction data from banks, and get as many ID links hooked in as possible to your own data so as to know what transactions have gone through the bank. For instance, if you've got 4875 cheques going through each month, getting 4853 of them automagically matched against what you issued and thus marked as "cleared" so that there are only a couple dozen to look at manually is a BIG savings of effort. - It sure would be nice if you could take purchase orders sent to you by email by customers and automagically transform these into "draft" sales orders. Similar is true for other documents that get sent back and forth. If an incoming electronic form can get transformed automagically to generate whatever document you generate as a response to it, that would sure be useful. None of the standards mentioned are much more than elliptically related to these sorts of "EDI" functionality. Well, that's not _completely_ fair; the OMG specs for G/L functionality could be _slightly_ related; it provides an interface that could be treated as a quasi-generic way of communicating with a General Ledger. Similarly, the "ARAP" provides a quasi-generic way of communicating with some subledgers. However, there's no way that such communication would take place _directly_; a customer's data would have to get transformed fairly substantially before committing it into your own accounting systems. Which will be true of _ANY_ interchange scheme; it's an inherent shortcoming to the beast. -- (reverse (concatenate 'string "gro.mca@" "enworbbc")) http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/nonrdbms.html Rules of the Evil Overlord #80. "If my weakest troops fail to eliminate a hero, I will send out my best troops instead of wasting time with progressively stronger ones as he gets closer and closer to my fortress." From derek@gnue.org Mon Feb 25 01:51:30 2002 Received: from mail.libertydistribution.com ([65.101.4.210]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fEyw-0004F8-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 01:51:30 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B47A71CC6D3; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 23:51:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from gnue.org (cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net [24.221.112.50]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C8821CC6D2; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 23:51:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3C79E076.4020506@gnue.org> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 23:57:58 -0700 From: "Derek A. Neighbors" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20010917 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: infotechsys Cc: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: Confused on the install instruction. References: <3C78003D.7070602@pivot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Hello, > I'm trying to install Common, but the instruction don't seem > to bee complete. I did the ./setup.py install. I change the file > sample.gnue.conf to gnue.conf and I changed sample.connections.conf > to connections.conf. Then the instruction stop. Should there be > more to the build process? Nope that should be about it. You will need to edit connections.conf to have valid entries for you setup. I believe there is information in README on this or in the techref guide in forms. > If I just want to look at what is available do I need to set > connection.conf > to actually having good values? If you want to just run forms w/o data, you need not have valid data in connections.conf. If you want to have data aware forms you will need to get a driver for your database if you dont have one and then edit connections.conf to reflect that. There is form in samples/intro/intro.gfd that is non data aware you can test your forms installation with. Common is a library so to speak so doesnt do anything with out forms/designer. :) -Derek From derek@gnue.org Mon Feb 25 02:20:28 2002 Received: from mail.libertydistribution.com ([65.101.4.210]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fFQy-0005Yr-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 02:20:28 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C57591CC6D3; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:20:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from gnue.org (cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net [24.221.112.50]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B7211CC6D2; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:20:14 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3C79E741.9060209@gnue.org> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:26:57 -0700 From: "Derek A. Neighbors" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20010917 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cbbrowne@acm.org Cc: GNUe Subject: Re: ERP Standards References: <20020225053341.B719424151@cbbrowne.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Chris, >XBRL is all about _reporting_ standards. It doesn't say what fields >there ought to be in particular accounting transactions; it instead >speaks to how the summary report at the end of the year should get >reported. > I am glad you pointed this out, because thats what I ORIGINALLY thought, but based on the emails I thought they had a 'general ledger' specification now, I guess I shouldnt assume things. :) >There's certainly some merit in having some code and tables that could >be used to do that "walk." > The nature of GNUe architecture (which is very XML fluid) shall have no problem with this. >What COULD, CONCEIVABLY, be of some value in influencing GnuE >direction would be stuff along the lines of successor schemes to EDI, >allowing quasi-standardized ways of exchanging data with business >partners. > I think even EDI specifications for data transfers will be similar as we will have an EAI tool or even our reporting tool for that matter than can adapt to virtually ANY XML format. The only issue woudl be if GNUe (the ERP) not the tools didnt have the proper fields necessary for the specification. However, I think your point is still very valid. >For instance: > > - It would be nice to pull in transaction data from banks, and > get as many ID links hooked in as possible to your own data so as > to know what transactions have gone through the bank. > Cool concept. > > For instance, if you've got 4875 cheques going through each month, > getting 4853 of them automagically matched against what you issued > and thus marked as "cleared" so that there are only a couple dozen > to look at manually is a BIG savings of effort. > > - It sure would be nice if you could take purchase orders sent to you > by email by customers and automagically transform these into > "draft" sales orders. > > Similar is true for other documents that get sent back and forth. > If an incoming electronic form can get transformed automagically to > generate whatever document you generate as a response to it, that > would sure be useful. > >None of the standards mentioned are much more than elliptically >related to these sorts of "EDI" functionality. > I have meant to revisit XML-EDI and OFX but havent for some time. The problem with EDI is VAN and VAN charges its like a 'surcharge' to do business. Some day hopefully we will be able to lift the 'levy'. As always thank for the insights. Havent heard your voice for a bit, thought perhaps you had given up on us. :)O -Derek From kreiszner@usa.net Mon Feb 25 02:21:10 2002 Received: from mail.usunwired.net ([207.191.41.15] helo=usunwired.net) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fFRd-0005Zi-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 02:21:10 -0500 Received: from usa.net ([207.191.61.14]) by usunwired.net ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 01:20:51 -0600 Message-ID: <3C79E6E7.14DF592E@usa.net> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 01:25:27 -0600 From: "Kenneth D. Reiszner" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: GNUe Subject: Re: XRBL & Other Goodies References: <23421AE30168D311A1060008C75F34B803D7CB62@uslaxexc08.us.kworld.kpmg.com> <3C79DBD7.7010300@gnue.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > ....... > > >So, in general, I wonder why Todd wants to describe things the way he does. > >Let me guess. Is it because he’s as biased as everyone else? > > > Assumably. I think this is my greatest problem with 'standard bodies' > of late. If it requires a lofty membership fee to participate and is > created by 'vendors' I think it is bound to be biased. When I look at > things that appear to have most impact currently like TCP/IP and HTML > (w3c) for a large part they were not originally this way. (though I > could be delusional) I think the trouble is that you want the 'experts' > in a field so you invite top vendors (though the 'little' voices that > are experts are 'excluded') I think membership fees are two fold, first > they help put some money into the overhead of a standards body, but I > suspect they are more to make sure that those people having 'say' in the > standard are serious and willing to put down some cash to prove it. > (keep out the riff raff) HOWEVER, again this hurts the little guy > ESPECIALLY 'FREE SOFTWARE' developers. These fees can be as high as $65,000/yr. http://www.omg.org/memberservices/feestructure.htm http://www.xbrl.org/XBRL_Invite.PDF None of these fee schedules goes below $5000/yr. even with reduced member participation. The high figures are for big buck firms that probably can spare the change. The more you pay the more "rights" you get. Kenneth D. Reiszner, Ph.D. President REAL, Inc. P.O. Box 709 Lecompte, LA 71346 Ph.No. & FAX: 318-443-0426 From infotechsys@pivot.net Mon Feb 25 06:56:55 2002 Received: from mail.pivot.net ([205.231.144.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fJkU-0008LZ-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 06:56:54 -0500 Received: from pivot.net (msta-aa108.pivot.net [66.186.165.108]) by mail.pivot.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g1PBurR18911 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 06:56:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C7A2041.20001@pivot.net> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 06:30:09 -0500 From: infotechsys User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: techref.pdf not there. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, While installing Forms I got this error. running install_data error: can't copy 'doc/techref.pdf': doesn't exist or not a regular file Is it okay to go on with the install? I pulled this doc down from the web page GNUe. Later- Wayne From malek@lcde.net Mon Feb 25 08:17:25 2002 Received: from amsfep13-int.chello.nl ([213.46.243.23]) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fL0O-0006vM-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:17:24 -0500 Received: from bouba ([24.132.20.44]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.03.06 201-253-122-118-106-20010523) with SMTP id <20020225131719.NRDK13209.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@bouba> for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:17:19 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01c1bdfe$c066f400$7843a8c0@lcde.loc> Reply-To: "Malek Hadj-Ali" From: "Malek Hadj-Ali" To: Subject: packages Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:17:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: hi, where can I get the packages (financial, sales, ...) and how do I install them ? I must say I'm a bit lost with the gnue installation process. Is there any howto about a basic installation (let's say financials and sales, win32 clients, db/geas on linux server for example)? What packages/software/versions/dependencies are required? In which order do you have to install everything? These are questions I still ask myself even after a few weeks of looking around reading the faq and mailing lists. Malek PS: well... I may be too stupid... or blind... :-) From sklein@cpcug.org Mon Feb 25 09:55:34 2002 Received: from server11.safepages.com ([216.127.146.25]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fMXN-0007Qn-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:55:33 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust250.tnt14.dca5.da.uu.net [63.14.102.250]) by server11.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8239614F453 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:55:19 +0000 (GMT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.16.20020225073611.3c2722fa@cpcug.org> X-Sender: sklein@cpcug.org (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (16) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 07:36:11 To: gnue@gnu.org From: "Stanley A. Klein" Subject: Re: ERP standards In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This responds to a lot of discussion on the issue. 1. Regarding fees for participating in standards development - Most standards developing organizations (SDO's) require some kind of fee (in addition to the cost of attending meetings) for participation. I pay $10 per year membership in the IEEE Standards Association to participate in various standards activities and $250 per year to ANSI to participate in International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) Technical Committee 57, Working Group 15 (on information security for electric power). The fees support the staff that runs the SDO. IEEE, ANSI, and IEC are part of the voluntary, consensus standards community that is open to anyone. The fees are not wildly burdensome for an individual. Even more burdensome is that they often charge exorbitant fees for copies of the standards. In my view that is one reason most data communications uses the Internet Protocol Suite (IPS a.k.a TCP/IP) instead of the International Standards Organization (ISO) Open Systems Interconnection (OSI) 7-layer model. IPS documents (RFC's) are freely available but OSI documents could cost $100 for an 8-page document that references 20 other documents. (There were other reasons as well -- such as the fact that IPS made sure their technology worked before adopting a standard and built a freely available reference implementation -- but the cost of obtaining documents was clearly one of them.) There are other "standards" bodies that are really commercial consortia. These include Object Management Group (sponsors of CORBA), W3C (I think), and others. They often have membership minima in the range of thousands of dollars and have graded memberships that guarantee large corporate sponsors greater say in their activities. (e.g., for $5000/year you can become an "ordinary" member; for $50,000/year you are guaranteed a seat on the board, etc.) Trying to completely avoid participation fees will likely mean avoiding all standards. 2. On internal vs external behavior - Most, if not all, standards define behavior as viewed from outside across some kind of interface. The typical approach is that internal implementation is left to the individual implementer. Sometimes it turns out to be easier to implement the external behavior internally, but the ability to provide the external behavior by some kind of translator is almost always maintained. As applied to accounting standards, this probably suggests that if we can find a standard that applies to information exchange with an auditor, it might be the most comprehensive. 3. On politics in the standards community - Welcome to the real world of people. Participants in standards activities don't check their human foibles at the door. Besides the wonderful thing about standards is that there are often so many competing ones to choose from. :-) Stan Klein At 12:03 PM 2/23/2002 -0500, "Derek A. Neighbors" wrote: >We of course think standards are important. I think the biggest problem >is we have a hard time endorsing standards that either: > >a. require a fee for membership to give input. as it is against the >nature of free software to have to 'pay' to participate in the >development of the 'standard', participation should be meritted by one's >ability expertise in an area not whether their company can afford the fee. > >b. are vendor creator or used by vendors to neutralize a market, >specifically the standard is created to cause confusion among those not >in the 'vendors' circle > >That said, GNUe is highly flexible so it could be made to support almost >any 'standard' you so desire. I do not know of this MRPII standard but >would love to see more on it, can you either provide a link in a return >email or submit it as a story on http://www.gnuenterprise.org ? > >Thanks > >Derek Neighbors >GNU Enterprise > >Ke Deng wrote: > >>hi, >> How do you think of the ERP Standards(such as MRPII standard written by >>Oliver Wight)? Is it important for GNUe? >>thanks, From sklein@cpcug.org Mon Feb 25 09:55:34 2002 Received: from server11.safepages.com ([216.127.146.25]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fMXN-0007RD-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:55:33 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust250.tnt14.dca5.da.uu.net [63.14.102.250]) by server11.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D254414F3A8 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:55:29 +0000 (GMT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.16.20020225073622.3c270134@cpcug.org> X-Sender: sklein@cpcug.org (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (16) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 07:36:22 To: gnue@gnu.org From: "Stanley A. Klein" Subject: Re: New law concerning electronic commerce In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Take a look at the draft security proposal I developed. It is posted on Neil Tiffin's page. One issue I began to try to address is the information security infrastructure required for meeting European Community (EC) privacy requirements. (BTW, the privacy requirements in Europe have been much more stringent than those in the USA for many years. I remember reading articles about the issue in the early-to-mid 1970's.) In summary, all information security (including access control) depends on the operating system and on other elements of infrastructure (e.g., the database management system) that also depend on the operating system but provide their own (derivative) security functions. GNUE is designed to meet a wide variety of user requirements and to run on a variety of operating systems. The best GNUE can do in the area of information security and access control is to enable a user to apply the functionality that the operating system and other infrastructure elements provide. To that end, my draft proposal tries to begin identifying how to do that and to simplify the user's task in applying the functionality. Current operating systems do not provide functionality specifically tailored to meeting EC privacy requirements. However, one of the security add-ons to GNU/Linux has features developed (IIRC) by a Swedish researcher who was focused on the operating system functions needed to support EC privacy. The tricky part for GNUE will likely come from any mandated test and compliance demonstration/certification requirements included in the legislation. Stan Klein At 10:36 AM 2/24/2002 -0500, jens.lists@unfaehig.de wrote: > >Neil Tiffin writes: > >> Excellent, >> >> Thanks this has been added to: >> >> packages/base/person/doc/person.sgml > >Cool. Any possibility to list me as an author? > >Btw: I will soon be writing something about "General storage and >access control requirements with respect to privacy regulations." > From r.lemense@belgacom.net Mon Feb 25 04:33:54 2002 Received: from durendal.skynet.be ([195.238.3.128]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fHW4-0008KG-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 04:33:52 -0500 Received: from toshiba (free2125.powered-by.skynet.be [62.4.136.77]) by durendal.skynet.be (8.11.6/8.11.6/Skynet-OUT-2.16) with SMTP id g1P9XMg11122; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:33:22 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from ) Message-ID: <006801c1bddf$34d956e0$0488043e@toshiba> From: "LEMENSE Robert" To: "Ke Deng" , "Derek A. Neighbors" , "Neil Tiffin" , "'Todd Boyle'" , "Coffin, Zachary P" Cc: , "GNUe" References: <23421AE30168D311A1060008C75F34B803D7CB62@uslaxexc08.us.kworld.kpmg.com> Subject: URe: ERP standards Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:22:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005E_01C1BDE6.5F46FCA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties. ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C1BDE6.5F46FCA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you Zack.=20 I appreciate forwarded "behind the back" comments from Mr Boyle. Robert Lemense Todd Boyle wrote: .../... > There are three groups on the planet, today, who give a > damn about GL standards. >=20 > - Eric Cohen and his group at the XBRL Consortium, > - Robert Lemense and the D14 domain committee of EDIFACT, and, > - our group at ArapXML who produced the OMG GL and OMG AR/AP models, = and are > members of the OMG and the Core Components workgroup of UN/CEFACT. .../... > The UN/CEFACT bodies only conduct their dialog in private discussions, = and > in physical meetings every 6 months in international locations, = usually > outside the US.=20 If Mr Boyle is a member of the Core Components workgroup of UN/CEFACT = (But is he really ???) he should know that the UN/CEFACT bodies do not = "conduct their dialog in private discussions, ...." The general rotation schedule is 2 meetings a year: 2 x 2 meetings = alternatively Europe and US, with in between 1 in ASIA, or 1 in NZ-AU. > In that sense they are like the Davos group.=20 =20 United Nations like Davos Group ????=20 .../... >=20 > Here is a typical encounter with Robert Lemense who never participates = on > technical or design discussions. The guy is 65, he is part of the = French > EDI establishment. He was a champion of ENTREC. >=20 a) Robert Lemense "never participates..." on egotistical and unilateral = thoughts for UN dealing is "consensus".=20 b) The guy is a forerunner in accounting standardisation search; = therefore he is possibly a respectable ancestor. However, he is not = (yet) 65 ... c) .../... "is part of the French EDI establishment..." ??? Pure = disinformation ! The guy is mandated by, and representing CSOEC (- Conseil Sup=C3=A9rieur = de l'Ordre des Experts Comptables) that is the French Council of = Certified Accountants Institute:=20 The guy is also a member of EDIFICAS Europe, organisation founded by = European accountants professional institutes, individual accountants, = individual auditors and the European Federation of Accountants. In = France, EDIFICAS is a member of EDIFRANCE, e-Business and EDI forum. d) "He was a champion...." WAS is not right:=20 should read "He IS a champion... The guy is not only a champion of ENTREC; he is a champion of all = UN-Standard Messages developed by D14 since 1997 that are: - BALANC - BUSCRD - CHACCO - CHAMAP - ENTREC - INFENT - LEDGER - REGENT Robert Lemense -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Coffin, Zachary P" To: "'Todd Boyle'" ; "Neil Tiffin" = ; "Derek A. Neighbors" ; "Ke = Deng" Cc: "GNUe" ; ; = Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 4:32 PM Subject: RE: ERP standards >=20 > Todd, you really, really do the world a great disservice. I=E2=80=99m = sure anyone > reading your posts, probably thinks you=E2=80=99re an okay guy. I = used to be your > champion even. But let me just say, anyone on this list who = hasn=E2=80=99t yet met > Todd, should beware; those of you who have, already know what = I=E2=80=99m talking > about. Now let me back that up - >=20 > Todd=E2=80=99s statement: > =E2=80=9Cthe XBRL GL which is occasionally released to the public = after it's been > decided by their members=E2=80=9D > Fact: > XBRL International has released the *DRAFT* GL taxonomy for public = review > and comment several times. That=E2=80=99s why we have offered it to = the world for > comment. The GL has not yet been released as a XBRL standard. > Zack Opinion: > Wonder why Todd wants to misrepresent the facts. >=20 > Todd=E2=80=99s statement: > =E2=80=9CInevitably our three GL groups will zero in on the accurate = picture and > combine the models. Meanwhile they don't talk to me so, I can't tell = you > what the h*ll they are up to.=E2=80=9D > Fact: > XBRL and UN/CEFACT announced a liaison/alliance to tackle this area a = year > ago. You know that. You=E2=80=99ve known it a long time - > http://www.xbrl.org/PressRoom/XBRL-PR-05162001.htm =20 > Zack Opinion: > Wonder why Todd wants to misrepresent others. >=20 > Todd=E2=80=99s statement: > =E2=80=9CI actually was stupid enough to fly to Orlando in December = to meet with > the XBRL GL group. For a full 8-hour day, they did maintain an = astonishing > wall of confidentiality, just as CPAs do in commercial negotiations, = never > disclosing anything of their positions in design of a general ledger = schema > or economic ontology.=E2=80=9D > Fact: > Unverifiable. His words against ours. > Zack Opinion: > As one of the participants in that meeting, let me just assure you = that I > have zero interest in meeting with someone for 8 hours on a Saturday = merely > to =E2=80=9Cmaintain an astonishing wall of confidentiality.=E2=80=9D = Was that really my > purpose? No, it was the same reason as why XBRL was in Orlando in the = first > place. We sponsored the first Interoperability Summit with OMG, OAG, = OASIS, > UN/CEFACT and HR-XML. Does anyone really think I=E2=80=99d maintain = some =E2=80=9Cwall of > confidentiality=E2=80=9D for 8 hours? Listen, why waste the time. If = that=E2=80=99s all we > did, why did we even bother staying more than 10 minutes? Why not go = enjoy > our Saturday. No, we made a last final attempt to work with Todd. I = used > to be Todd=E2=80=99s champion. I=E2=80=99ve given up. >=20 > So, in general, I wonder why Todd wants to describe things the way he = does. > Let me guess. Is it because he=E2=80=99s as biased as everyone else? >=20 > Todd=E2=80=99s NEVER-MADE statement: > =E2=80=9CI=E2=80=99m as biased as everyone else.=E2=80=9D > Fact: > Todd Boyle works for NetAccount, a commercial company. > Zack Opinion: > Everyone has some human bias. But the difference between = Todd/ArapXML and > XBRL International (or Todd and the rest of the world), is that the = first is > driven by ONE person/company and the second is a group process - in = XBRL=E2=80=99s > case, 150 vendors, accounting firms, users, regulators, etc. from = around the > world WORKING TOGETHER. Trust me, not just in Todd=E2=80=99s case, = but always, the > collaborative standards approach is safer. Everyone knows Todd only = wants > things HIS way (or, maybe I should say, NetAccount=E2=80=99s way). = But that=E2=80=99s not > how standards are created. You don=E2=80=99t have a standard unless = your users, > vendors, regulators and competitors are sitting at the table arguing = with > and against you -- to produce the standards. That=E2=80=99s XBRL. >=20 > On top of it all, Todd even criticizes the UN with =E2=80=9Cthe = UN/CEFACT bodies > only conduct their dialog in private discussions, and in physical = meetings > every 6 months in international locations, usually outside the = US.=E2=80=9D What > would he like - that all the meetings be in the U.S. so that poorer > countries criticize it as a U.S. thing? And Todd, it=E2=80=99s really = pretty bad > when you attack a guy like Robert Lemense - who=E2=80=99s put years of = his life into > standards - when you say, =E2=80=9CThe guy is 65, he is part of the = French EDI > establishment.=E2=80=9D That=E2=80=99s as bad as if someone said, = =E2=80=9CThat guy=E2=80=99s only 18 - > what does he know?=E2=80=9D >=20 > Anyone who wants to learn more about XBRL, please go to www.xbrl.org. = If > you want to learn more about XBRL specifically for G/L, go to > http://www.xbrl.org/gl/gl.htm, or for more detail, > http://www.xbrl.org/gl/gldash.htm. >=20 > XBRL is creating the standards for financial statements, G/L, = regulatory > filings, statistics, etc. - anything that describes an = organization=E2=80=99s > performance or risk. We are working from the sub-ledger to = macro-economic > statistics - the whole information reporting supply chain. >=20 > Somewhere this thread began with a question about ERP standards. SAP, > Oracle, Peoplesoft, Fujitsu (yes, in Japan, they have ERP software), = etc. > are all members of XBRL. SAP is scheduled to be XBRL compliant this = year - > second quarter if I=E2=80=99m not mistaken. >=20 > Now, here=E2=80=99s the part where Todd says it just the big = companies. No, XBRL is > for any organization, including SMEs, government agencies, non-profit > organizations, etc. We=E2=80=99re even opening up a new category of = membership, for > academics or individuals non-affiliated with a company. In the = meantime, > the following organizations are members of XBRL and have COMMITTED to > XBRL-enabling their products or services - >=20 > ACCPAC International, Inc. ACL Services Ltd. > Acumen Alliance Advisor Technology Services > American Institute of Certified Public Accountants Andersen > Anthem Software Asia Securities Printing Co., Ltd. > Aspect Computing Audicon > Audit Software Systems Pty Ltd Australian and New Zealand Banking = Group > Limited > Australian Prudential Regulation Authority Australian Stock Exchange > BDO Seidman, LLP Beacon IT Inc. > Best Software Bowne & Co., Inc. > Bridge News Bryant College > Business Wire Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants > Capital Printing Systems, Inc. CaseWare International Inc. > Certified General Accountants Association of Canada Chuo System = Service > Co, Ltd > Coca-Cola Amatil (AU) Cogniant, Inc. > Count-net.com SA CPA Australia > CPA2Biz Creative Solutions > Crowe Chizek and Co., LLP DATEV e.G. > Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Deutsche Bank > Deutsche B=C3=B6rse AG Deutsche Bundesbank > Deutsche Vereinigung f=C3=BCr Finanzanalyse und Asset Mgt. Deutsches > Rechnungslegungs Standards Committee e.V. > Digital Notarization Authority Diva Corporation > Dow Jones & Co., Inc. Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein > EDGAR Online Inc. eKeeper.com > eLedger.com, Inc. Elemental Interactive > e-Numerate Solutions, Inc. ePace! Software > ePartners, Inc. Epicor Software Corp. > Ernst & Young, LLP eStilil Co., Ltd. > Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (U.S.) Fidelity Investments > Financial Reporting Solutions Financial Software Group > FinArch First Light Communications, Inc. > FRx Software Corp. Fujitsu Ltd. > Fujitsu Prime Software Technologies Limited Fujitsu Research Institute > Gcom2 Solutions General Electric Company > Gerringong HiTech Pty Ltd Global Filings, Inc. > Grant Thornton, LLP Haarmann, Hemmelrath & Partner > Hitachi Hitachi System & Services, Ltd. > HOLT Value Associates Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing > Hong Kong Registrar of Companies Hong Kong Society of Accountants > Hyperion Solutions Corp. IBM > UBMatrix.com I-Lumen, Inc. > Information Management Australia Information Planning > Infoteria Corp. InnoData GmbH (Semansys Technologies) > Innovision Institut der Wirtschaftspr=C3=BCfer (IdW) > Institute of Certified Public Accountants in Singapore Institute of > Chartered Accountants in Australia > Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales Institute of > Chartered Accountants in Ireland > Institute of Management Accountants (U.S.) International Accounting > Standards Board (IASB) > International Federation of Accountants (IFAC) Ipswich City Council = (AU) > Japan Information Service Industry Association Japan Notary = Organization > Japanese Institute Of Certified Public Accountants KPMG Consulting, > Inc. > KPMG International Lawson Software > Macquarie Bank Media Fusion Co., Ltd. > Microsoft Corp. Microsoft Great Plains > MIP, Inc. MIS Deutschland GmbH > Moody=E2=80=99s Risk Management Services, Inc. Morgan Stanley > Multex.com, Inc. MYOB > National Center of Charitable Statistics (U.S.) National Information > Infrastructure Enterprise Promotion Association (Taiwan) > NavisionDamgaard Software NEC Corporation > NetLedger, Inc. New River, Inc. > Nihombashi Corporation Nihon Intersystems Co., Ltd. > Nihon Keizai Shimbun, Inc NTT Data Corporation > Oracle Corporation Japan PCA Corporation > PeopleSoft Pitcher Partners > PPA Gesellschaft f=C3=BCr Finanzanalyse & Benchmarks mbH Practitioners > Publishing Company > PricewaterhouseCoopers Quicken (AU) > R.R. Donnelly Financial Reuters > RIA Software RMIT University > Royal Bank of Canada Royal NIVRA (Netherlands) > Sage Software SAP AG > Seattle Pacific University Center for Professional Development Shin = Nihon & > Co. > Smithink Pty Ltd Software AG > Solution 6 Standard and Poor=E2=80=99s > Statistics Canada Syspro Group > Takara Printing Co., Ltd. Teikoku Databank, Ltd. > Japanese Institute of Certified Public Accountants The Woodburn Group > Thomson Financial Tokyo Shoko Research, Ltd. > Toshiba Corporation Toyo Keizai, Inc. > U.S. Census Bureau U.S. Dept. of Defense (DFAS) > Visionart, Inc WebXcentric > WMC Limited XSI (formerly XBRL Solutions, Inc.) >=20 > The world is moving towards this single business reporting framework. = I > encourage those of you interested in standards, to get involved. As a > start, please register at www.xbrl.org and go to and review the = messages at > http://www.yahoogroups.com/xbrl-public. >=20 > Thanks for your consideration. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Zack >=20 >=20 > P.S. Todd/Mr.NetAccount, since you=E2=80=99ve attacked Eric and Robert = behind their > back, I=E2=80=99ve taken the liberty of cc=E2=80=99ing them on this = email in case they want > to add anything. I think people want to know the truth. >=20 >=20 > Zachary Coffin > =E3=82=B6=E3=83=83=E3=82=AB=E3=83=AA=E3=83=BC = =E3=82=B3=E3=83=83=E3=83=95=E3=82=A3=E3=83=B3 > XBRL International Steering Committee > zpc1@columbia.edu >=20 >=20 > KPMG Global XBRL Leader > 355 South Grand Avenue, Suite 2000 > Los Angeles, CA 90071-1568 USA > Tel: +1-213-955-8508 * Fax: +1-213-630-5196 > Email: zcoffin@kpmg.com >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Todd Boyle [mailto:tboyle@rosehill.net]=20 > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 7:41 PM > To: Neil Tiffin; Derek A. Neighbors; Ke Deng > Cc: GNUe > Subject: Re: ERP standards >=20 >=20 > >>please feel free to enlighten me if a standard exists that is = practical. >=20 > Neil, your comments are quite rational. I agree, without = reservations, > there has not been any standard for the exchange of transactions among = the > internal applications of a company that had sufficient following to = provide > any payoffs. OAGIS, could have been a candidate. But it has some > fundamental weaknesses. ERP is not even a candidate inasmuch as it = ignores > the 50 million SMEs in the world. >=20 > Now in 2002 you have three broad choices. >=20 > 1. General Ledger standards - By this I mean, standard conceptual = elements > and standard names for things like transaction dates, times, parties, > accounts, etc. necessary for exchange of information to/from = accounting or > business systems. There are three groups on the planet, today, who = give a > damn about GL standards. >=20 > - Eric Cohen and his group at the XBRL Consortium, > - Robert Lemense and the D14 domain committee of EDIFACT, and, > - our group at ArapXML who produced the OMG GL and OMG AR/AP models, = and are > members of the OMG and the Core Components workgroup of UN/CEFACT. >=20 > Inevitably our three GL groups will zero in on the accurate picture = and > combine the models. Meanwhile they don't talk to me so, I can't tell = you > what the h*ll they are up to. XBRL does not listen to anybody or = share > their work in progress, or allow your vote on it, unless you're either = a > target for their XBRL Framework, or, paying the $10,000 annual dues. = Thats > $800/month, for the privilege of then, contributing even more money = and time > to build the standards. >=20 > I actually was stupid enough to fly to Orlando in December to meet = with the > XBRL GL group. For a full 8-hour day, they did maintain an = astonishing wall > of confidentiality, just as CPAs do in commercial negotiations, never > disclosing anything of their positions in design of a general ledger = schema > or economic ontology. >=20 > The UN/CEFACT bodies only conduct their dialog in private discussions, = and > in physical meetings every 6 months in international locations, = usually > outside the US. In that sense they are like the Davos group. I have = asked > many times for any drafts or even discussions of principle design, but = the > invariable result from this group is some assertions of political = process, > releases of whatever new regulatory body they have created. = Supposedly, the > D14 of the UN/CEFACT will publish some kind of GL model soon, perhaps = at the > Barcelona meeting in Spain, in March. >=20 > Here is a typical encounter with Robert Lemense who never participates = on > technical or design discussions. The guy is 65, he is part of the = French > EDI establishment. He was a champion of ENTREC. >=20 > http://lists.ebtwg.org/archives/ebtwg-ccs/200111/msg00084.html > http://lists.ebtwg.org/archives/ebtwg-ccs/200111/msg00092.html >=20 > Bear in mind, the world is not beating down the doors looking for a GL > specification or even a family of EAI integration schemas like OAGIS, = SMBXML > or QBXML. They happen to work pretty well. But what difference does = that > make if *none* of the commercial software vendors is utilizing them? = other > than perhaps, their own proprietary interface (if you're lucky) >=20 > It is only the individual and SME who really needs a GL standard... >=20 > 2. e-business integration standards. >=20 > Obviously, the number of industry specific semantic models has grown, = and > have gotten much more detailed and accurate in every industry. Look = at all > these diverse standards! --new and old, continuing to evolve and = develop. >=20 > http://www.diffuse.org/0201-ec.html > http://www.diffuse.org/0112-ec.html >=20 > There's also the nearly daily news on Robin Cover pages, but that is = just > within the universe of XML (technology-specific), = http://xml.coverpages.org/ >=20 > These are not bad news and these, are the real battleground where e- > business semantics are being forged. Not the centeralized standard > bodies. So, the question is, similar to General Ledger interface > standards: how can horizontal interop. be achieved in a world of = excellent > vertical schemas being used in every industry? There are two answers = really. > Bigtime mapping infrastructures like Biztalk Server or EAI platforms, = or, > hopefully, some future metadata registry and open source code, that = enables > developers toachieve mapping more easily. >=20 > 3. The Core Components framework. >=20 > Core Components is the common metadata architecture that applies the > principles of ISO 11179 to the business domain. This is a very large > subject and the place to start is perhaps reading some easy warmups, = from > the magazines on the web. >=20 > Core components technical specification provides the rules, for = designing > semantic elements. Users can combine them anyway they like. This is = not > about prescribing anything, it is about nailing down the most obvious = and > wellknown entities like dates, parties, locations, products, contacts, = and > the vocabulary for commitments and fulfillments. These conceptual = entities > are already well established in contract law. There is no doubt, their = brief > definitions can be stacked up like a dictionary, with unique = identifiers, > and we can all get down the road with a single language. >=20 > The Core Components framework removes the infighting over the naming = of the > element, or the syntax of expressing it as EDI, XML etc. or national > biases or *any other objection.* Since it is fundamentally a > dictionary of atomic elements, you can assemble them into any document = you > desire. There is no doubt, this is the way forward. Core components = can > describe all of those excellent vertical XML schemas. They don't have = to > cooperate and they can wish it wasn't true. Nothing can stop you from > creating a core component version of AnythingXML, which is therby, > interoperable to some degree, with your own component model. Nothing = can > stop me from interoperating with Robert Lemenses' thing if he ever = publishes > it, or with the XBRL GL which is occasionally released to the public = after > it's been decided by their members. And, nothing will stop the users = of ARAP > GLIE's from abandoning it and adopting the XBRL or the UN/CEFACT GL. >=20 > This is where my fingers get tired. You really should install = Poseidon and > join with Arne and I to continue the work on the version 2 of ARAP > Submission to the OMG with its associated set of Core Component = semantics. > Let's make it just better. The registry is a meritocracy. Regardless = of > whoever discovers, and correctly defines, the atomic entities, or the > correctly designed aggregate entities, they will be there for 100 = years. > Picture yourself during the renaissance, when scholars argued over the > definitions in the Oxford dictionary. That's what's happening here, = except > that it will not take long. A couple more years. >=20 > Thanks for listening if you're still there, > Todd > Todd Boyle CPA 9745-128th Ave NE Kirkland WA > International Accounting Services, LLC www.gldialtone.com > tboyle@rosehill.net 425-827-3107 project www.arapxml.net >=20 >=20 >=20 > > At 04:04 PM 2/23/02, Neil Tiffin wrote: > > At 3:18 PM -0800 2/23/02, Todd Boyle wrote: > >> GNUE project is certainly not unique in ignoring various > >> standards of course. We should count our blessings and > >> salute Neil, Derek, and other key developers for their generosity = >> in > offering this open source project to the community. They're > > = Having > worked with GNUE for almost 2 years I think the issue is NOT the > = lack of > desire to use standards. I for one would much rather use > someone = else's > prior work in the form of standards instead of trying to > create a = beast > from scratch. > > My problem is that I am not an accountant and = don't have > the time to > sort through all of the noise (standards that are being > proposed, but > will never be implemented or represent an accepted > standard). > > I have not found an accounting standard that applies = to > GNUe. There are > all sorts of standard that are vying for control = of how > accounting is > done. But I have not found one that is geared for = internal > systems. > Most of the ones mentioned, so far, have been for data > interchange and > they are not currently practical for high volume > transactions internal > to a company. > > Of course, my look at > accounting standard has only been cursory, so > please feel free to > enlighten me if a standard exists that is practical. > > Neil >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Gnue mailing list > Gnue@gnu.org > http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue > = *************************************************************************= **** > The information in this email is confidential and may be legally = privileged. > It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by = anyone else > is unauthorized.=20 >=20 > If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, = distribution > or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is = prohibited > and may be unlawful. When addressed to our clients any opinions or = advice > contained in this email are subject to the terms and conditions = expressed in > the governing KPMG client engagement letter. =20 > = *************************************************************************= **** >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C1BDE6.5F46FCA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you Zack. =
I appreciate forwarded = "behind the=20 back" comments from Mr Boyle.
 
Robert = Lemense
 
 
Todd Boyle wrote:
 
.../...
> There are three groups on the = planet, today,=20 who give a
> damn about GL standards.
>
> - Eric = Cohen and=20 his group at the XBRL Consortium,
> - Robert Lemense and the D14 = domain=20 committee of EDIFACT, and,
> - our group at ArapXML who produced = the OMG=20 GL and OMG AR/AP models, and are
> members of the OMG and the Core = Components workgroup of UN/CEFACT.
.../...
 
> The UN/CEFACT bodies only conduct = their dialog=20 in private discussions, and
> in physical meetings every 6 months = in=20 international locations, usually
> outside the = US. 
 
If Mr Boyle is a member = of the Core=20 Components workgroup of UN/CEFACT (But is he really ???) he should know = that the=20 UN/CEFACT bodies do not "conduct their dialog in private discussions,=20 ...."
The general rotation = schedule is 2=20 meetings a year: 2 x 2 meetings alternatively Europe and US, with in = between 1=20 in ASIA, or 1 in NZ-AU.
 
 
 
> In that sense they are like = the Davos=20 group.
 
United Nations like = Davos Group ????=20
 
 
.../...
>
> Here is a typical = encounter with=20 Robert Lemense who never participates on
> technical or design=20 discussions.  The guy is 65, he is part of the French
> EDI=20 establishment.  He was a champion of ENTREC.
>
 
a) Robert Lemense = "never=20 participates..." on egotistical and unilateral thoughts for UN dealing = is=20 "consensus".
 
b) The guy is a = forerunner in=20 accounting standardisation search; therefore he is possibly a = respectable=20 ancestor. However, he is not (yet) 65 ...
 
c) .../... "is part of = the French EDI=20 establishment..." ???     Pure disinformation = !
 
The guy is mandated by, = and=20 representing CSOEC (- Conseil Sup=C3=A9rieur de l'Ordre des Experts = Comptables) that=20 is the French Council of Certified Accountants Institute:
The guy is also a = member of EDIFICAS=20 Europe, organisation founded by European accountants professional = institutes,=20 individual accountants, individual auditors and the European Federation = of=20 Accountants. In France, EDIFICAS is a member of EDIFRANCE, e-Business = and EDI=20 forum.
 
d) "He was a = champion...." WAS is not=20 right:
should read "He IS a=20 champion...
 
The guy is not = only a champion=20 of ENTREC; he is a champion of all UN-Standard Messages developed by D14 = since=20 1997 that are:
- BALANC
- BUSCRD
- CHACCO
- CHAMAP
- ENTREC
- INFENT
- LEDGER
- REGENT
 
Robert = Lemense
 

 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Coffin, Zachary P" <zcoffin@kpmg.com>
To: "'Todd Boyle'" <tboyle@rosehill.net>; = "Neil Tiffin"=20 <ntiffin@earthlink.net>; "Derek A.=20 Neighbors" <derek@gnue.org>; "Ke = Deng"=20 <szsciman@yahoo.com>
Cc: "GNUe" <gnue@gnu.org>; <r.lemense@belgacom.net>;=20 <eric.e.cohen@us.pwcglobal.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 4:32=20 PM
Subject: RE: ERP = standards

>
> Todd, you really, really do the world a great=20 disservice.  I=E2=80=99m sure anyone
> reading your posts, = probably thinks=20 you=E2=80=99re an okay guy.  I used to be your
> champion = even.  But let=20 me just say, anyone on this list who hasn=E2=80=99t yet met
> = Todd, should beware;=20 those of you who have, already know what I=E2=80=99m talking
> = about.  Now=20 let me back that up -
>
> Todd=E2=80=99s statement:
> =  =E2=80=9Cthe XBRL=20 GL which is occasionally released to the public after it's been
> = decided=20 by their members=E2=80=9D
> Fact:
>  XBRL International = has released=20 the *DRAFT* GL taxonomy for public review
> and comment several=20 times.  That=E2=80=99s why we have offered it to the world = for
>=20 comment.  The GL has not yet been released as a XBRL = standard.
> Zack=20 Opinion:
>  Wonder why Todd wants to misrepresent the = facts.
>=20
> Todd=E2=80=99s statement:
>  =E2=80=9CInevitably our = three GL groups will=20 zero in on the accurate picture and
> combine the models. = Meanwhile they=20 don't talk to me so, I can't tell you
> what the h*ll they are up=20 to.=E2=80=9D
> Fact:
>  XBRL and UN/CEFACT announced a = liaison/alliance=20 to tackle this area a year
> ago.  You know that.  = You=E2=80=99ve known=20 it a long time -
>
http://www.xbrl.org/PressRoom/XBRL-PR-05162001.htm 
> Zack Opinion:
>  Wonder = why Todd=20 wants to misrepresent others.
>
> Todd=E2=80=99s = statement:
>=20  =E2=80=9CI actually was stupid enough to fly to Orlando in = December to meet=20 with
> the XBRL GL group.  For a full 8-hour day, they did = maintain=20 an astonishing
> wall of confidentiality, just as CPAs do in = commercial=20 negotiations, never
> disclosing anything of their positions in = design of=20 a general ledger schema
> or economic ontology.=E2=80=9D
> = Fact:
>=20  Unverifiable.  His words against ours.
> Zack = Opinion:
>=20  As one of the participants in that meeting, let me just assure you = that=20 I
> have zero interest in meeting with someone for 8 hours on a = Saturday=20 merely
> to =E2=80=9Cmaintain an astonishing wall of = confidentiality.=E2=80=9D  Was=20 that really my
> purpose?  No, it was the same reason as why = XBRL was=20 in Orlando in the first
> place.  We sponsored the first=20 Interoperability Summit with OMG, OAG, OASIS,
> UN/CEFACT and=20 HR-XML.  Does anyone really think I=E2=80=99d maintain some = =E2=80=9Cwall of
>=20 confidentiality=E2=80=9D for 8 hours?  Listen, why waste the = time.  If that=E2=80=99s=20 all we
> did, why did we even bother staying more than 10 = minutes? =20 Why not go enjoy
> our Saturday.  No, we made a last final = attempt to=20 work with Todd.  I used
> to be Todd=E2=80=99s = champion.  I=E2=80=99ve given=20 up.
>
> So, in general, I wonder why Todd wants to describe = things=20 the way he does.
> Let me guess.  Is it because he=E2=80=99s = as biased as=20 everyone else?
>
> Todd=E2=80=99s NEVER-MADE = statement:
>  =E2=80=9CI=E2=80=99m=20 as biased as everyone else.=E2=80=9D
> Fact:
>  Todd = Boyle works for=20 NetAccount, a commercial company.
> Zack Opinion:
> =  Everyone=20 has some human bias.  But the difference between Todd/ArapXML = and
>=20 XBRL International (or Todd and the rest of the world), is that the = first=20 is
> driven by ONE person/company and the second is a group = process - in=20 XBRL=E2=80=99s
> case, 150 vendors, accounting firms, users, = regulators, etc. from=20 around the
> world WORKING TOGETHER.  Trust me, not just in = Todd=E2=80=99s=20 case, but always, the
> collaborative standards approach is = safer. =20 Everyone knows Todd only wants
> things HIS way (or, maybe I = should say,=20 NetAccount=E2=80=99s way).  But that=E2=80=99s not
> how = standards are created. =20 You don=E2=80=99t have a standard unless your users,
> vendors, = regulators and=20 competitors are sitting at the table arguing with
> and against = you -- to=20 produce the standards.  That=E2=80=99s XBRL.
>
> On = top of it all,=20 Todd even criticizes the UN with =E2=80=9Cthe UN/CEFACT bodies
> = only conduct=20 their dialog in private discussions, and in physical meetings
> = every 6=20 months in international locations, usually outside the = US.=E2=80=9D  What
>=20 would he like - that all the meetings be in the U.S. so that = poorer
>=20 countries criticize it as a U.S. thing?  And Todd, it=E2=80=99s = really pretty=20 bad
> when you attack a guy like Robert Lemense - who=E2=80=99s = put years of his=20 life into
> standards - when you say, =E2=80=9CThe guy is 65, he = is part of the=20 French EDI
> establishment.=E2=80=9D  That=E2=80=99s as bad = as if someone said, =E2=80=9CThat=20 guy=E2=80=99s only 18 -
> what does he know?=E2=80=9D
> =
> Anyone who wants to=20 learn more about XBRL, please go to www.xbrl.org. =20 If
> you want to learn more about XBRL specifically for G/L, go = to
>=20
http://www.xbrl.org/gl/gl.htm, or for=20 more detail,
>
http://www.xbrl.org/gl/gldash.htm.
>
> XBRL is creating the standards for financial = statements, G/L, regulatory
> filings, statistics, etc. - anything = that=20 describes an organization=E2=80=99s
> performance or risk.  = We are working=20 from the sub-ledger to macro-economic
> statistics - the whole = information=20 reporting supply chain.
>
> Somewhere this thread began = with a=20 question about ERP standards.  SAP,
> Oracle, Peoplesoft, = Fujitsu=20 (yes, in Japan, they have ERP software), etc.
> are all members of = XBRL.  SAP is scheduled to be XBRL compliant this year -
> = second=20 quarter if I=E2=80=99m not mistaken.
>
> Now, = here=E2=80=99s the part where Todd=20 says it just the big companies.  No, XBRL is
> for any = organization,=20 including SMEs, government agencies, non-profit
> organizations,=20 etc.  We=E2=80=99re even opening up a new category of membership, = for
>=20 academics or individuals non-affiliated with a company.  In the=20 meantime,
> the following organizations are members of XBRL and = have=20 COMMITTED to
> XBRL-enabling their products or services -
> =
>=20 ACCPAC International, Inc. ACL Services Ltd.
> Acumen Alliance = Advisor=20 Technology Services
> American Institute of Certified Public = Accountants=20 Andersen
> Anthem Software Asia Securities Printing Co., = Ltd.
>=20 Aspect Computing Audicon
> Audit Software Systems Pty Ltd = Australian and=20 New Zealand Banking Group
> Limited
> Australian Prudential=20 Regulation Authority Australian Stock Exchange
> BDO Seidman, LLP = Beacon=20 IT Inc.
> Best Software Bowne & Co., Inc.
> Bridge News = Bryant=20 College
> Business Wire Canadian Institute of Chartered=20 Accountants
> Capital Printing Systems, Inc. CaseWare = International=20 Inc.
> Certified General Accountants Association of Canada Chuo = System=20 Service
> Co, Ltd
> Coca-Cola Amatil (AU) Cogniant, = Inc.
>=20 Count-net.com SA CPA Australia
> CPA2Biz Creative = Solutions
> Crowe=20 Chizek and Co., LLP DATEV e.G.
> Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Deutsche = Bank
> Deutsche B=C3=B6rse AG Deutsche Bundesbank
> Deutsche = Vereinigung=20 f=C3=BCr Finanzanalyse und Asset Mgt. Deutsches
> Rechnungslegungs = Standards=20 Committee e.V.
> Digital Notarization Authority Diva = Corporation
>=20 Dow Jones & Co., Inc. Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein
> EDGAR = Online=20 Inc. eKeeper.com
> eLedger.com, Inc. Elemental Interactive
> = e-Numerate Solutions, Inc. ePace! Software
> ePartners, Inc. = Epicor=20 Software Corp.
> Ernst & Young, LLP eStilil Co., Ltd.
> = Federal=20 Deposit Insurance Corporation (U.S.) Fidelity Investments
> = Financial=20 Reporting Solutions Financial Software Group
> FinArch First Light = Communications, Inc.
> FRx Software Corp. Fujitsu Ltd.
> = Fujitsu=20 Prime Software Technologies Limited Fujitsu Research Institute
> = Gcom2=20 Solutions General Electric Company
> Gerringong HiTech Pty Ltd = Global=20 Filings, Inc.
> Grant Thornton, LLP Haarmann, Hemmelrath &=20 Partner
> Hitachi Hitachi System & Services, Ltd.
> HOLT = Value=20 Associates Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing
> Hong Kong Registrar = of=20 Companies Hong Kong Society of Accountants
> Hyperion Solutions = Corp.=20 IBM
> UBMatrix.com I-Lumen, Inc.
> Information Management = Australia=20 Information Planning
> Infoteria Corp. InnoData GmbH (Semansys=20 Technologies)
> Innovision Institut der Wirtschaftspr=C3=BCfer = (IdW)
>=20 Institute of Certified Public Accountants in Singapore Institute = of
>=20 Chartered Accountants in Australia
> Institute of Chartered = Accountants in=20 England and Wales Institute of
> Chartered Accountants in = Ireland
>=20 Institute of Management Accountants (U.S.) International = Accounting
>=20 Standards Board (IASB)
> International Federation of Accountants = (IFAC)=20 Ipswich City Council (AU)
> Japan Information Service Industry = Association=20 Japan Notary Organization
> Japanese Institute Of Certified Public = Accountants KPMG Consulting,
> Inc.
> KPMG International = Lawson=20 Software
> Macquarie Bank Media Fusion Co., Ltd.
> Microsoft = Corp.=20 Microsoft Great Plains
> MIP, Inc. MIS Deutschland GmbH
> = Moody=E2=80=99s=20 Risk Management Services, Inc. Morgan Stanley
> Multex.com, Inc.=20 MYOB
> National Center of Charitable Statistics (U.S.) National=20 Information
> Infrastructure Enterprise Promotion Association=20 (Taiwan)
> NavisionDamgaard Software NEC Corporation
> = NetLedger,=20 Inc. New River, Inc.
> Nihombashi Corporation Nihon Intersystems = Co.,=20 Ltd.
> Nihon Keizai Shimbun, Inc NTT Data Corporation
> = Oracle=20 Corporation Japan PCA Corporation
> PeopleSoft Pitcher = Partners
>=20 PPA Gesellschaft f=C3=BCr Finanzanalyse & Benchmarks mbH = Practitioners
>=20 Publishing Company
> PricewaterhouseCoopers Quicken (AU)
> = R.R.=20 Donnelly Financial Reuters
> RIA Software RMIT University
> = Royal=20 Bank of Canada Royal NIVRA (Netherlands)
> Sage Software SAP = AG
>=20 Seattle Pacific University Center for Professional Development Shin = Nihon=20 &
> Co.
> Smithink Pty Ltd Software AG
> Solution = 6=20 Standard and Poor=E2=80=99s
> Statistics Canada Syspro = Group
> Takara=20 Printing Co., Ltd. Teikoku Databank, Ltd.
> Japanese Institute of=20 Certified Public Accountants The Woodburn Group
> Thomson = Financial Tokyo=20 Shoko Research, Ltd.
> Toshiba Corporation Toyo Keizai, = Inc.
> U.S.=20 Census Bureau U.S. Dept. of Defense (DFAS)
> Visionart, Inc=20 WebXcentric
> WMC Limited XSI (formerly XBRL Solutions, = Inc.)
>=20
> The world is moving towards this single business reporting=20 framework.  I
> encourage those of you interested in = standards, to=20 get involved.  As a
> start, please register at
www.xbrl.org and go to and review the messages at
> = http://www.yahoogroups.com/xbrl-public.
>
> Thanks for your consideration.
> =
>=20 Regards,
>
> Zack
>
>
> P.S.=20 Todd/Mr.NetAccount, since you=E2=80=99ve attacked Eric and Robert behind = their
>=20 back, I=E2=80=99ve taken the liberty of cc=E2=80=99ing them on this = email in case they=20 want
> to add anything.  I think people want to know the=20 truth.
>
>
> Zachary Coffin
> = =E3=82=B6=E3=83=83=E3=82=AB=E3=83=AA=E3=83=BC = =E3=82=B3=E3=83=83=E3=83=95=E3=82=A3=E3=83=B3
> XBRL=20 International Steering Committee
>
zpc1@columbia.edu
>
>=20
> KPMG Global XBRL Leader
> 355 South Grand Avenue, Suite=20 2000
> Los Angeles, CA 90071-1568  USA
> Tel: = +1-213-955-8508 *=20 Fax: +1-213-630-5196
> Email:
zcoffin@kpmg.com
> =
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Todd Boyle=20 [mailto:tboyle@rosehill.net]
> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 = 7:41=20 PM
> To: Neil Tiffin; Derek A. Neighbors; Ke Deng
> Cc: = GNUe
>=20 Subject: Re: ERP standards
>
>
> =  >>please feel=20 free to enlighten me if a standard exists that is practical.
> =
>=20 Neil, your comments are quite rational.  I agree, without=20 reservations,
> there has not been any standard for the exchange = of=20 transactions among the
> internal applications of a company that = had=20 sufficient following to provide
> any payoffs.  OAGIS, could = have=20 been a candidate.  But it has some
> fundamental = weaknesses. =20 ERP is not even a candidate inasmuch as it ignores
> the 50 = million SMEs=20 in the world.
>
> Now in 2002 you have three broad = choices.
>=20
> 1. General Ledger standards - By this I mean, standard = conceptual=20 elements
> and standard names for things like transaction dates, = times,=20 parties,
> accounts, etc. necessary for exchange of information = to/from=20 accounting or
> business systems.  There are three groups on = the=20 planet, today, who give a
> damn about GL standards.
> =
> -=20 Eric Cohen and his group at the XBRL Consortium,
> - Robert = Lemense and=20 the D14 domain committee of EDIFACT, and,
> - our group at ArapXML = who=20 produced the OMG GL and OMG AR/AP models, and are
> members of the = OMG and=20 the Core Components workgroup of UN/CEFACT.
>
> Inevitably = our=20 three GL groups will zero in on the accurate picture and
> combine = the=20 models. Meanwhile they don't talk to me so, I can't tell you
> = what the=20 h*ll they are up to.  XBRL does not listen to anybody or = share
>=20 their work in progress, or allow your vote on it, unless you're either = a
>=20 target for their XBRL Framework, or, paying the $10,000 annual dues.=20 Thats
> $800/month, for the privilege of then, contributing even = more=20 money and time
> to build the standards.
>
> I = actually was=20 stupid enough to fly to Orlando in December to meet with the
> = XBRL GL=20 group.  For a full 8-hour day, they did maintain an astonishing=20 wall
> of confidentiality, just as CPAs do in commercial = negotiations,=20 never
> disclosing anything of their positions in design of a = general=20 ledger schema
> or economic ontology.
>
> The = UN/CEFACT=20 bodies only conduct their dialog in private discussions, and
> in = physical=20 meetings every 6 months in international locations, usually
> = outside the=20 US.  In that sense they are like the Davos group. I have = asked
> many=20 times for any drafts or even discussions of principle design, but = the
>=20 invariable result from this group is some assertions of political=20 process,
> releases of whatever new regulatory body they have=20 created.  Supposedly, the
> D14 of the UN/CEFACT will publish = some=20 kind of GL model soon, perhaps at the
> Barcelona meeting in = Spain, in=20 March.
>
> Here is a typical encounter with Robert Lemense = who=20 never participates on
> technical or design discussions.  The = guy is=20 65, he is part of the French
> EDI establishment.  He was a = champion=20 of ENTREC.
>
>
<= FONT=20 face=3DArial=20 size=3D2>http://lists.ebtwg.org/archives/ebtwg-ccs/200111/msg00084.html
> <= FONT=20 face=3DArial=20 size=3D2>http://lists.ebtwg.org/archives/ebtwg-ccs/200111/msg00092.html
>
> Bear in mind, the world is not = beating down the=20 doors looking for a GL
> specification or even a family of EAI = integration=20 schemas like OAGIS, SMBXML
> or QBXML.  They happen to work = pretty=20 well. But what difference does that
> make if *none* of the = commercial=20 software vendors is utilizing them?  other
> than perhaps, = their own=20 proprietary interface (if you're lucky)
>
> It is only the=20 individual and SME who really needs a GL standard...
>
> 2. = e-business integration standards.
>
> Obviously, the number = of=20 industry specific semantic models has grown, and
> have gotten = much more=20 detailed and accurate in every industry.  Look at all
> these = diverse=20 standards! --new and old, continuing to evolve and develop.
> =
>=20 http://www.diffuse.org/0201-ec.html
> http://www.diffuse.org/0112-ec.html
>
> There's also the nearly daily news = on Robin=20 Cover pages, but that is just
> within the universe of XML=20 (technology-specific), http://xml.coverpages.org/
>
> These are not bad news and these, are the real = battleground=20 where e-
> business semantics are being forged. Not the = centeralized=20 standard
> bodies.   So, the question is, similar to = General=20 Ledger interface
> standards:  how can horizontal interop. be = achieved in a world of excellent
> vertical schemas being used in = every=20 industry? There are two answers really.
> Bigtime mapping = infrastructures=20 like Biztalk Server or EAI platforms, or,
> hopefully, some future = metadata registry and open source code, that enables
> developers=20 toachieve mapping more easily.
>
> 3.  The Core = Components=20 framework.
>
> Core Components is the common metadata = architecture=20 that applies the
> principles of ISO 11179 to the business = domain. =20 This is a very large
> subject and the place to start is perhaps = reading=20 some easy warmups, from
> the magazines on the web.
> =
> Core=20 components technical specification provides the rules, for = designing
>=20 semantic elements. Users can combine them anyway they like.  This = is=20 not
> about prescribing anything, it is about nailing down the = most=20 obvious and
> wellknown entities like dates, parties, locations, = products,=20 contacts, and
> the vocabulary for commitments and = fulfillments. =20 These conceptual entities
> are already well established in = contract law.=20 There is no doubt, their brief
> definitions can be stacked up = like a=20 dictionary, with unique identifiers,
> and we can all get down the = road=20 with a single language.
>
> The Core Components framework = removes=20 the infighting over the naming of the
> element, or the syntax of=20 expressing it as EDI, XML etc. or national
> biases or *any other=20 objection.*   Since it is fundamentally a
> dictionary = of atomic=20 elements, you can assemble them into any document you
> desire. = There is=20 no doubt, this is the way forward. Core components can
> describe = all of=20 those excellent vertical XML schemas.  They don't have to
> = cooperate=20 and they can wish it wasn't true.  Nothing can stop you = from
>=20 creating a core component version of AnythingXML, which is = therby,
>=20 interoperable to some degree, with your own component model. Nothing = can
>=20 stop me from interoperating with Robert Lemenses' thing if he ever=20 publishes
> it, or with the XBRL GL which is occasionally released = to the=20 public after
> it's been decided by their members. And, nothing = will stop=20 the users of ARAP
> GLIE's from abandoning it and adopting the = XBRL or the=20 UN/CEFACT GL.
>
> This is where my fingers get tired.  = You=20 really should install Poseidon and
> join with Arne and I to = continue the=20 work on the version 2 of ARAP
> Submission to the OMG with its = associated=20 set of Core Component semantics.
> Let's make it just = better.  The=20 registry is a meritocracy. Regardless of
> whoever discovers, and=20 correctly defines, the atomic entities, or the
> correctly = designed=20 aggregate entities, they will be there for 100 years.
> Picture = yourself=20 during the renaissance, when scholars argued over the
> = definitions in the=20 Oxford dictionary.  That's what's happening here, except
> = that it=20 will not take long.  A couple more years.
>
> Thanks = for=20 listening if you're still there,
> Todd
> Todd Boyle = CPA =20 9745-128th Ave NE  Kirkland WA
> International Accounting = Services,=20 LLC 
www.gldialtone.com
> tboyle@rosehill.net =20 425-827-3107  project www.arapxml.net
>=20
>
>
>  > At 04:04 PM 2/23/02, Neil Tiffin=20 wrote:
>  > At 3:18 PM -0800 2/23/02, Todd Boyle = wrote:
>=20  >> GNUE project is certainly not unique in ignoring = various
>=20  >> standards of course.  We should count our blessings=20 and
>  >> salute Neil, Derek, and other key developers = for=20 their generosity  >> in
> offering this open source = project to=20 the community.  They're  >  > Having
> worked = with=20 GNUE for almost 2 years I think the issue is NOT the  > lack = of
>=20 desire to use standards.  I for one would much rather use  = >=20 someone else's
> prior work in the form of standards instead of = trying=20 to  > create a beast
> from scratch.  >  > = My=20 problem is that I am not an accountant and don't have
> the time = to =20 > sort through all of the noise (standards that are being
> = proposed,=20 but  > will never be implemented or represent an = accepted
>=20 standard).  >  > I have not found an accounting standard = that=20 applies to
> GNUe.  There are  > all sorts of = standard that=20 are vying for control of how
> accounting is  > = done.  But I=20 have not found one that is geared for internal
> systems.  = > Most=20 of the ones mentioned, so far, have been for data
> interchange = and =20 > they are not currently practical for high volume
> = transactions=20 internal  > to a company.  >  > Of course, my = look=20 at
> accounting standard has only been cursory, so  > = please feel=20 free to
> enlighten me if a standard exists that is = practical. =20 >  > Neil
>
>
>=20 _______________________________________________
> Gnue mailing=20 list
>
Gnue@gnu.org
> = http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue
>=20 *************************************************************************= ****
>=20 The information in this email is confidential and may be legally=20 privileged.
> It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to = this=20 email by anyone else
> is unauthorized.
>
> If you = are not=20 the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution
> or = any=20 action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is = prohibited
> and=20 may be unlawful. When addressed to our clients any opinions or = advice
>=20 contained in this email are subject to the terms and conditions = expressed=20 in
> the governing KPMG client engagement=20 letter.        
>=20 *************************************************************************= ****
>=20
------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C1BDE6.5F46FCA0-- From infotechsys@pivot.net Mon Feb 25 11:30:27 2002 Received: from mail.pivot.net ([205.231.144.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fO1C-0008Bj-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:30:27 -0500 Received: from pivot.net (msta-ab010.pivot.net [66.186.168.10]) by mail.pivot.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g1PGUOR03258 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:30:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C7A605B.3030100@pivot.net> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:03:39 -0500 From: infotechsys User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Well, I got gfclient to run. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, I found gfclient in three different paths. 1. /usr/local/bin/gfclient 2. /usr/local/gnue/GNUe-Forms-0.1.1/build/scripts/gfclient 3./usr/local/gnue/GNUe-Forms-0.1.1/client/gfclient Which one do you plan on using in the future? I had to go in each gfclient and change the path to execute python. It's not a big deal I know. I like the spash screen. Well, on to Designer. Later- Wayne From tboyle@rosehill.net Mon Feb 25 12:05:45 2002 Received: from deneb.cortland.com ([199.254.229.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fOZM-0003dP-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:05:45 -0500 Received: from ppro180.rosehill.net (rosehill.net [207.229.102.93]) by deneb.cortland.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA02019; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:23:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: deneb.cortland.com: Host rosehill.net [207.229.102.93] claimed to be ppro180.rosehill.net Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020224084846.0355dc80@popmail.cortland.com> X-Sender: tboyle@popmail.cortland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:30:15 -0800 To: "Coffin, Zachary P" , Neil Tiffin , "Derek A. Neighbors" , Ke Deng From: Todd Boyle Subject: RE: ERP standards Cc: GNUe , "Robert Lemense (r.lemense@belgacom.net)" , "Eric E. Cohen (eric.e.cohen@us.pwcglobal.com)" In-Reply-To: <23421AE30168D311A1060008C75F34B803D7CB62@uslaxexc08.us.kwo rld.kpmg.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Neil, Derek, can we have a couple more rounds of argument here on your list? I will be happy to take it elsewhere if you like. My next post will be nothing but a list of approximately ten technical and adoption issues why the individual and small business should reject the XBRL GL. The #1 issue is why anybody needing a GL interface to their Peachhree or Quickbooks or AccPac should adopt XML Schema, XLink, XML namespaces, XBRL 2.0 Framework, and then finally, point all of this apparatus at the XBRL taxonomy plug-in for GL. I generally don't like doing this because it's a one-way giveaway of technical services for which they do not reciprocate. The group is a bit xenophobic, and gets freaked out by people who don't care about authority or group loyalty. Since Robert Lemense and the D14 of UN CEFACT haven't published any semantic models, I can't comment on theirs other than to warn you that their intention is to become the official Registration Authority for GL interface semantics for UN/CEFACT, in other words, to define the elements and document structures at the border between the internal systems of a company, and their external B2B transactions. Just remember, there WILL be a standards registry, and there WILL be a registration authority... now, do you understand why it is important to participate in the process? No doubt Robert will post soon with a lot of political and positioning stuff like Zack's and similarly, not addressing a single fundamental issue. Like, how to support business processes and single entry business events in a double-entry GL http://www.arapxml.net/NDEAdef.htm or why double-entry is necessary, etc.etc. In closing, I have the highest respect for all the D14 and XBRL, as human beings and find them all delightful, as people. But this is politics, and the architecture decisions built into their standards constitute a transfer of economic wealth from ME to THEM. There is no reason in the world to accept that, without an argument of those issues, Todd From jason@ncsmags.com Mon Feb 25 12:21:20 2002 Received: from w203.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net ([65.105.10.203] helo=monsoon.ncsmags.com) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fOoR-0004Hr-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:21:20 -0500 Received: from jason (jason.ncsmags.com [192.168.0.10]) by monsoon.ncsmags.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8D40C471F84 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:20:52 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:16:40 -0600 From: Jason Cater To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: Well, I got gfclient to run. Message-Id: <20020225111640.3c74db28.jason@ncsmags.com> In-Reply-To: <3C7A605B.3030100@pivot.net> References: <3C7A605B.3030100@pivot.net> Organization: National Community Services X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.2 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Wayne, Only the first one listed should need changing. The other two are "staging" files used during the installation. Incidentally, hopefully you won't have to change this header line in the future :) I know that's quite frustrating. -- Jason On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:03:39 -0500 "infotechsys" wrote: > Hi, > I found gfclient in three different paths. > 1. /usr/local/bin/gfclient > 2. /usr/local/gnue/GNUe-Forms-0.1.1/build/scripts/gfclient > 3./usr/local/gnue/GNUe-Forms-0.1.1/client/gfclient > Which one do you plan on using in the future? I had to go in > each gfclient and change the path to execute python. It's not > a big deal I know. I like the spash screen. Well, on to Designer. > Later- > Wayne > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnue mailing list > Gnue@gnu.org > http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue From infotechsys@pivot.net Mon Feb 25 12:37:17 2002 Received: from mail.pivot.net ([205.231.144.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fP3t-0006em-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:37:17 -0500 Received: from pivot.net (msta-ab652.pivot.net [66.186.170.144]) by mail.pivot.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g1PHbGR22046 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:37:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C7A7007.9000307@pivot.net> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:10:31 -0500 From: infotechsys User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: How to set sys.path? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello again, I got there warning when I installed Designer- warning: install: modules installed to '/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/', which is not in Python's module search path (sys.path) -- you'll have to change the search path yourself Can somwone tell me how to do this? I did a find on sys.path, but nothing comes up. Wayne From derek@gnue.org Mon Feb 25 12:49:17 2002 Received: from www.llamacom.com ([209.152.94.130]) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fPFU-0007Gj-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:49:16 -0500 Received: (qmail 4235 invoked by uid 542); 25 Feb 2002 17:49:14 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 25 Feb 2002 17:49:14 -0000 Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:49:14 -0600 (CST) From: Derek Neighbors X-X-Sender: To: infotechsys cc: Subject: Re: How to set sys.path? In-Reply-To: <3C7A7007.9000307@pivot.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: You should be able to ignore this warning. -Derek On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, infotechsys wrote: > Hello again, > I got there warning when I installed Designer- > warning: install: modules installed to '/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/', > which is not in Python's module search path (sys.path) -- you'll have to > change the search path yourself > > Can somwone tell me how to do this? I did a find on sys.path, but > nothing comes up. > Wayne > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnue mailing list > Gnue@gnu.org > http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue > From derek@gnue.org Mon Feb 25 12:50:21 2002 Received: from www.llamacom.com ([209.152.94.130]) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fPGX-0007L8-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:50:21 -0500 Received: (qmail 4425 invoked by uid 542); 25 Feb 2002 17:50:20 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 25 Feb 2002 17:50:20 -0000 Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:50:20 -0600 (CST) From: Derek Neighbors X-X-Sender: To: infotechsys cc: Subject: Re: How to set sys.path? In-Reply-To: <3C7A7007.9000307@pivot.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Wayne, If you have access to IRC, you can get real time tech support at no cost @ irc.openprojects.net #gnuenterprise -Derek On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, infotechsys wrote: > Hello again, > I got there warning when I installed Designer- > warning: install: modules installed to '/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/', > which is not in Python's module search path (sys.path) -- you'll have to > change the search path yourself > > Can somwone tell me how to do this? I did a find on sys.path, but > nothing comes up. > Wayne > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnue mailing list > Gnue@gnu.org > http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue > From infotechsys@pivot.net Mon Feb 25 13:49:30 2002 Received: from mail.pivot.net ([205.231.144.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fQBm-00065d-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:49:30 -0500 Received: from pivot.net (msta-ab652.pivot.net [66.186.170.144]) by mail.pivot.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g1PInPR02691; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:49:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C7A80F0.6060907@pivot.net> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:22:40 -0500 From: infotechsys User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Derek Neighbors CC: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: How to set sys.path? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: It looks like it doesn't matter. I was able to start gfdesigner. Now to read some docs on designer. Later- Wayne Derek Neighbors wrote: >You should be able to ignore this warning. > >-Derek > >On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, infotechsys wrote: > >>Hello again, >>I got there warning when I installed Designer- >>warning: install: modules installed to '/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/', >>which is not in Python's module search path (sys.path) -- you'll have to >>change the search path yourself >> >>Can somwone tell me how to do this? I did a find on sys.path, but >>nothing comes up. >>Wayne >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Gnue mailing list >>Gnue@gnu.org >>http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Gnue mailing list >Gnue@gnu.org >http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue > > From jason@ncsmags.com Mon Feb 25 13:51:45 2002 Received: from w203.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net ([65.105.10.203] helo=monsoon.ncsmags.com) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fQDw-0006Bp-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:51:45 -0500 Received: from jason (jason.ncsmags.com [192.168.0.10]) by monsoon.ncsmags.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E8875471F84; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:51:18 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:47:06 -0600 From: Jason Cater To: "infotechsys" Cc: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: How to set sys.path? Message-Id: <20020225124706.6973185e.jason@ncsmags.com> In-Reply-To: <3C7A7007.9000307@pivot.net> References: <3C7A7007.9000307@pivot.net> Organization: National Community Services X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.2 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-debian-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: You can safely ignore that message. It's a standard python message issued when you install something outside of python's own path. We account for that in our startup scripts. -- Jason On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:10:31 -0500 "infotechsys" wrote: > Hello again, > I got there warning when I installed Designer- > warning: install: modules installed to '/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/', > which is not in Python's module search path (sys.path) -- you'll have to > change the search path yourself > > Can somwone tell me how to do this? I did a find on sys.path, but > nothing comes up. > Wayne > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnue mailing list > Gnue@gnu.org > http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue From infotechsys@pivot.net Mon Feb 25 15:32:02 2002 Received: from mail.pivot.net ([205.231.144.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fRn0-0008Pc-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 15:32:02 -0500 Received: from pivot.net (msta-ab452.pivot.net [66.186.169.198]) by mail.pivot.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g1PKW0R10936 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 15:32:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C7A98FB.4010703@pivot.net> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 15:05:15 -0500 From: infotechsys User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: can't print documents. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I'm trying to print the documents that have a suffix of txt. The only one I had success on is "Guidelines for Writing Templates and Wizards". The rest of them start, but after a couple of pages have printed my printer hangs. Also I tried to look at the file DevelopersGuid-Forms.pdf with xpdf and nothing shows. The error from xpdf is Error: This document uses Type 3 fonts - some text may not be correctly displayed I should note that when I try looking at the files(txt) with vim the table outline wraps obout 3 or 4 times. Any help greatly appreciated. Wayne From derek@gnue.org Mon Feb 25 20:37:36 2002 Received: from mail.libertydistribution.com ([65.101.4.210]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fWYi-0001Um-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:37:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BD40A1CC68F; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:37:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from gnue.org (cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net [24.221.112.50]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F9211CC68E; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:37:22 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3C7AE866.8050702@gnue.org> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:44:06 -0700 From: "Derek A. Neighbors" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20010917 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: infotechsys Cc: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: can't print documents. References: <3C7A98FB.4010703@pivot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > I'm trying to print the documents that have a suffix > of txt. The only one I had success on is "Guidelines for Writing > Templates > and Wizards". The rest of them start, but after a couple of pages have > printed my printer hangs. Also I tried to look at the file This is most odd, they are just normal text files, nothing tricky. > DevelopersGuid-Forms.pdf with xpdf and nothing shows. > The error from xpdf is > Error: This document uses Type 3 fonts - some text may not be > correctly displayed Where are you getting this 'developersguid-forms.pdf'? -Derek From derek@gnue.org Mon Feb 25 21:04:37 2002 Received: from mail.libertydistribution.com ([65.101.4.210]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fWyr-0002mZ-00 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:04:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D43491CC68F; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:04:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from gnue.org (cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net [24.221.112.50]) by mail.libertydistribution.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 369281CC68E; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:04:20 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3C7AEEB8.4030106@gnue.org> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:11:04 -0700 From: "Derek A. Neighbors" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20010917 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Malek Hadj-Ali Cc: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: packages References: <000d01c1bdfe$c066f400$7843a8c0@lcde.loc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > > >where can I get the packages (financial, sales, ...) and how do I install >them ? > We do not have them completed only some proposals for them. You could author packages like these with the framework today, but currently dont have 'pre-packaged' ones. We are working on them. >I must say I'm a bit lost with the gnue installation process. Is there any >howto about a basic installation (let's say financials and sales, win32 >clients, db/geas on linux server for example)? > Win32 client, simply download the forms binary and run the .exe, you will need to edit your connections.conf file and possibly download a driver for you backend, but that is all there is to it. GNU\Linux clients are 'slightly' more difficult as you must obtain the dependencies first. >What packages/software/versions/dependencies are required? In which order do >you have to install everything? These are questions I still ask myself even >after a few weeks of looking around reading the faq and mailing lists. > On GNU\Linux for forms wxPython, wxGTK, Python, PyXML and a data driver of choice. On windows all dependencies are included in the install. I believe the install instructions are in the README/INSTALL of the packages as well. Derek Neighbors From tboyle@rosehill.net Tue Feb 26 03:13:36 2002 Received: from deneb.cortland.com ([199.254.229.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fcjv-0001mY-00 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 03:13:36 -0500 Received: from ppro180.rosehill.net (rosehill.net [207.229.102.93]) by deneb.cortland.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id AAA30663; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 00:02:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: deneb.cortland.com: Host rosehill.net [207.229.102.93] claimed to be ppro180.rosehill.net Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020225215434.034a4810@popmail.cortland.com> X-Sender: tboyle@popmail.cortland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 00:09:24 -0800 To: "LEMENSE Robert" From: Todd Boyle Subject: Re: URe: ERP standards Cc: "GNUe" In-Reply-To: <006801c1bddf$34d956e0$0488043e@toshiba> References: <23421AE30168D311A1060008C75F34B803D7CB62@uslaxexc08.us.kworld.kpmg.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I've been a bit busy, but it's time to address LEMENSE Robert's points. At 01:22 AM 2/25/02, LEMENSE Robert wrote: >Thank you Zack. >I appreciate forwarded "behind the back" comments from Mr Boyle. > >Robert Lemense My comments were posted to a public mailing list. I have said all of these points to you directly. You and Zack Coffin seem to characterize my comments as deceitful or a breach of some trust you have placed in me. Why not address the architecture points I have made? This is a software project. My points are substantial and worthy of discussion. There is nothing deceitful about posting them. Do you expect that your absence should inhibit me from posting them? You are occupying a position as chairman of the D14 in a standards institution. I am not. It is cowardly and unprofessional for D14 to formulate standards and circulate drafts and communications without publishing work in progress, on semantic entities for accounting systems. I want those drafts. The joint work by the EDIFICAS group and the private vendor consortium, XBRL was also improper. While the general public was not provided drafts of the XEGL during its period of drafting, members of the D14 and EDIFICAS, public standards groups, were reading them, and influencing their design as well. The extremely slow process of D14 causes economic waste. That process can be speeded up by a vigorous, public discussion of accounting vocabulary. I didn't ask for the D14 to be my representative in deciding interface semantics for my software. In fact, I protest D14 involvement in accounting semantics because your semantic definitions to date, (ENTREC etc. and the XEGL schema) are not well designed, and are not platform independent. The semantic entities of your work products have baked into them, assumptions that create advantages for large enterprises at the expense of individuals and small business. They are not sufficiently documented by MIGs. They also do not adequately support recent advances in business process models. ENTREC is bound to the EDI syntax which is useless to small business and has been completely rejected by small business software vendors. XBRL GL is bound to XML, which many businesses reject. We want syntax-neutral representations. For these reasons I objected to the D14's automatic entitlement to the role as registration authority for core components for the accounting domain. That's all. Nothing personal. >Todd Boyle wrote: > >.../... > > There are three groups on the planet, today, who give a > > damn about GL standards. > > > > - Eric Cohen and his group at the XBRL Consortium, > > - Robert Lemense and the D14 domain committee of EDIFACT, and, > > - our group at ArapXML who produced the OMG GL and OMG AR/AP models,=20 > and are > > members of the OMG and the Core Components workgroup of UN/CEFACT. >.../... > > > The UN/CEFACT bodies only conduct their dialog in private discussions,= and > > in physical meetings every 6 months in international locations, usually > > outside the US. > >If Mr Boyle is a member of the Core Components workgroup of UN/CEFACT (But= =20 >is he really ???) he should know that the UN/CEFACT bodies do not "conduct= =20 >their dialog in private discussions, ...." >The general rotation schedule is 2 meetings a year: 2 x 2 meetings=20 >alternatively Europe and US, with in between 1 in ASIA, or 1 in NZ-AU. There you go again, with this fixation on membership and hierarchy. In the= =20 world of large organizations, I guess you would like to ostracize me from= =20 the "in group". But there is no group. I am an individual and I don't=20 give a f*ck whether I'm a member of anything. Robert may not be aware that the ebXML and ebTWG Core Components workgroups= =20 are open processes. They have leaders, and editors, and=20 contributors. They have active mailing lists and it is possible to=20 participate, as a private individual. I contributed in some ways from=20 2000-2002. I went to a couple meetings. I reviewed the spec, implemented= =20 parts of it in software, provided corrections, etc. and I came here to the= =20 GNUE list to evangelize it. I'm listed as a contributor on page 3 of the current draft of the Core=20 Components Technical Specification v1.8. The project leader decides=20 whoever he wants to list. Who cares? > > In that sense they are like the Davos group. > >United Nations like Davos Group ???? Yes. Davos. The domain groups of the UN/EDIFACT are like the Davos=20 group. They do whatever they want, and the general public hasn't got a=20 clue how far reaching their actions are. Perhaps you should explain why we need government involvement to facilitate= =20 semantic standards. Did governments produce languages or compile the=20 Oxford English Dictionary? I think not. Is the United Nations a place=20 where technology or R&D or higher learning is produced? The involvement=20 of governments with industry usually results in transfers of wealth from=20 the individual, to the state and the selected industries. The reader should be advised that in France, all aspects of accounting are= =20 tightly controlled by law. They are even required to use a chart of=20 accounts imposed by the government. When the D14 turns up as the Registration Authority for all of the=20 accounting elements in the global core components registry, that is where=20 it becomes a threat to me, and likely, makes the core components less=20 useful to individuals and small business. At that point, one can only go=20 back to proprietary accounting applications. But who knows what the D14= =20 is planning. It's not published. >.../... > > > > Here is a typical encounter with Robert Lemense who never participates= on > > technical or design discussions. The guy is 65, he is part of the= French > > EDI establishment. He was a champion of ENTREC. > > > >a) Robert Lemense "never participates..." on egotistical and unilateral=20 >thoughts for UN dealing is "consensus". > >b) The guy is a forerunner in accounting standardisation search; therefore= =20 >he is possibly a respectable ancestor. However, he is not (yet) 65 ... I will concede this point. You are a forerunner in accounting=20 standardization search, and I have benefited significantly from studying=20 the ENTREC creation. Your initials points in the XEGL schema are also=20 worth reading, for any GL researcher. I am also indebted for your=20 generosity in sending me the French Plan Comptable book. That's why I posted your name to begin with. You are a public figure. But that is as far as I would go. You're one of the guys who works on GL= =20 schemas. If you were not injuring my interests with your closed process=20 and liaisons with the XBRL consortium, I would be more sympathetic. >c) .../... "is part of the French EDI establishment..." ??? Pure=20 >disinformation ! > >The guy is mandated by, and representing CSOEC (- Conseil Sup=C3=A9rieur de= =20 >l'Ordre des Experts Comptables) that is the French Council of Certified=20 >Accountants Institute: >The guy is also a member of EDIFICAS Europe, organisation founded by=20 >European accountants professional institutes, individual accountants,=20 >individual auditors and the European Federation of Accountants. In France,= =20 >EDIFICAS is a member of EDIFRANCE, e-Business and EDI forum. > >d) "He was a champion...." WAS is not right: >should read "He IS a champion... > >The guy is not only a champion of ENTREC; he is a champion of all=20 >UN-Standard Messages developed by D14 since 1997 that are: >- BALANC >- BUSCRD >- CHACCO >- CHAMAP >- ENTREC >- INFENT >- LEDGER >- REGENT > >Robert Lemense Oh who cares. This is a software list. Your post gives no useful information. Meanwhile, the work of D14 is unfinished, and sequestered in some offline discussion. - ENTREC/CHACCO have been a market failure. Even in their home market (Large enterprises, EDIFACT EDI users, mostly European), the EDIFACT messages for accounting have been apparently not adopted by any significant users. In a world of 6.5 billion people, a successful global standard is one which serves millions of users. - ENTREC/CHACCO are *totally* irrelevant to GL integration. Companies use ORBs, middleware and more recently web services when they have an EAI requirement. Business developers would hardly think of EDI adapters and EDI message designs for passing data among systems. - EDIFACT and EDI themselves, are also a market failure. It works well for its intended use. EDI reportedly has 400,000 sites. EDI has plateaued. EDI is never going to provide the slightest usefulness to even 1% of 6.5 billion people, as individuals. It is an organization technology. - KEY POINT: The Core Components workgroup has run several years, to create the beginnings of a syntax-neutral, platform-neutral way of representing metadata. Now, that work is fairly complete and may be released soon for public review. You can get a copy of that, and the thousands of email messages during the years of development, on the public internet (Unlike the ENTREC.) The Core Components Technical Specification (CCTS) is at http//lists.ebtwg.org/archives/ebtwg-ccs/200202/msg00089.html - The CCTS provides a foundation for a large scale technical and political process of creating definitions of everything in the business marketplace. Articulating semantic entities for accounting use cases, turns out to be a very challenging task that can't be done by some guys in private, who meet every 6 months in worldwide locations and don't have a mailing list. It also can't happen when everybody is so concerned with their image and position that they can't talk in an open dialog. There has never been any technical, academic or even usenet or list posts, visible on the internet about the ENTREC, CHACCO etc. messages. Even their authors website do not provide an EDI MIG (Message Implementation Guideline). These ENTREC, CHACCO etc are perfectly irrelevant to the ongoing work by many people, for a meaningful standard for the integration of business processes, of which general ledgers are a small part. Somebody please tell me, how to use these to integrate my Quickbooks with other local applications? Or with a web service? Under the current leadership in D14, from 1997 to the present their total contribution was ENTREC messages. Meanwhile, think of the incredible advances since then! Here we are in 2002 and there is still no semantic draft from D14, and yet, they want to be the Registration Authority for the global vocabulary for accounting. Now I am going to tell you the weakness of my position, one that makes me very uncomfortable, and makes every accountant uncomfortable, including the D14 and XBRL communities. There is no authentic "accounting domain" in the whole entire domain of computer technology, or telecommunications. There is financial reporting, which is a legal and political arena. There are certainly, user interface requirements such as double entry representations, journal metaphors, etc. that are necessary for accountants to do their jobs. These are trivial things to provide by software. There is an internal integration "domain" perhaps. That is EAI, and more recently, BP standards. But there is not any authentic accounting integration domain for the XBRL, or the D14 or anybody else, I believe. There is a need for accountants to cooperate with business process architects and with lawyers, defining the semantics of business transactions and financial reporting, and only as a secondary task, to define the user interface requirements such as double entry representations necessary for accountants to do their jobs. Accounting and settlement are just *aspects* of a business exchange. If you promise to pay me $100 for my car, and I give you my car, does it matter if you don't make an accounting entry? Or if the bank does not post the $100 from your account to my account? All of these problems are ridiculously easy for computers. You put a $3 signing device in the hands of the public, so that they can sign contracts (including releasing money) without a military grade firewall. Accounting is just like banking. You have two people, fighting for control over a single lever or switch, namely, what entry to post. That's a political problem not a standards problem. Let me ask another way. Is making a payment, a business process??? The posting of an information entry in a ledger? And one which was in every case, preceded by and required under the terms, of a contract? Payments is NOT a business process. Then, why do we need a D6 domain group? Why are Payments the first sets of business processes that get submitted whenever theres a new BP standard?? Similarly, why do we need a D14? People will be debating this for decades. There are over 4000 messages in the XYZ forum on YahooGroups, for example, in less than 1 year, for and against AICPA XYZ proposal. This is a historic thing which will affect payments, too. All of accounting and payments come after the fact of business transactions. They are deterministic. There is no need for today's labor force of at least 20 million people working in accounting and payments. In the networked world, all that manual manipulation is actually harmful. Accounting, in the small business arena, is a system of social organization. That is why, in an Orwellian way, the Registration Authority issue is so important, and the D14 is so anathema to me. Under their control, the semantics will be controlled by accountants and banks, in a way that perpetuates the role (and fee) of human intermediaries instead of encryption technologies, signatures, and objective transaction attributes between sovereign parties themselves, TOdd From infotechsys@pivot.net Tue Feb 26 05:17:16 2002 Received: from mail.pivot.net ([205.231.144.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fefc-0002xr-00 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 05:17:16 -0500 Received: from pivot.net (msta-aa247.pivot.net [66.186.165.247]) by mail.pivot.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g1QAHCR25156; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 05:17:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C7B5A5F.3070305@pivot.net> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 04:50:23 -0500 From: infotechsys User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Derek A. Neighbors" CC: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: can't print documents. References: <3C7A98FB.4010703@pivot.net> <3C7AE866.8050702@gnue.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Derek A. Neighbors wrote: >> I'm trying to print the documents that have a suffix >> of txt. The only one I had success on is "Guidelines for Writing >> Templates >> and Wizards". The rest of them start, but after a couple of pages have >> printed my printer hangs. Also I tried to look at the file > > This is most odd, they are just normal text files, nothing tricky. > >> DevelopersGuid-Forms.pdf with xpdf and nothing shows. >> The error from xpdf is >> Error: This document uses Type 3 fonts - some text may not be >> correctly displayed > > Where are you getting this 'developersguid-forms.pdf'? > > -Derek Derek, I forgot to cc the group that's why your getting a second copy. Here is the location on my system. [root@localhost doc]# pwd /usr/local/gnue/GNUe-Designer-0.1.1/doc [root@localhost doc]# ls DevelopersGuide-Forms.pdf DevelopersGuide-Forms.txt TemplatesAndWizards.txt From meritage@mail.com Tue Feb 26 21:10:04 2002 Received: from 205-158-62-44.outblaze.com ([205.158.62.44] helo=mta1-3.us4.outblaze.com) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16ftXf-0002Wa-00 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 21:10:03 -0500 Received: from ws1-2.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-54.outblaze.com [205.158.62.54]) by mta1-3.us4.outblaze.com (8.11.6/8.11.6-srs) with SMTP id g1R2A2W05289 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 02:10:02 GMT Received: (qmail 18274 invoked by uid 1001); 27 Feb 2002 02:10:02 -0000 Message-ID: <20020227021002.18273.qmail@mail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [210.8.224.3] by ws1-2.us4.outblaze.com with http for meritage@mail.com; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:10:02 +0800 From: "Peter Dabrowski" To: gnue@gnu.org Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:10:02 +0800 Subject: Re: MRP Standards X-Originating-Ip: 210.8.224.3 X-Originating-Server: ws1-2.us4.outblaze.com Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, I would like tu put my 3 cents into this discussion. From the point of small business user any standards which are not going to help in running the bisness are usless. Technology is changing so qickly, so by the time the standards are produced they become outdated. Peple expecting from Aplications to be usful, easy to use, platform inepended, international, have multicurency and to be modifaied with easy to suit a bisness model. Diffrent countries got diffrent laws and tax rules. Aplications which could be easily adopted to difrent environment will become standard by itself. For example I see SQL-ledger.org going in this direction very quickly. Aplication is easy to install and use, support multicurency and locale, Is easy to adapt to difrent tax rules and accounting practices with very dynamic i responsive group of developers. Good luck with your work Peter Dabrowski -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup From infotechsys@pivot.net Wed Feb 27 05:04:21 2002 Received: from mail.pivot.net ([205.231.144.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16g0we-0006Hn-00 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 05:04:20 -0500 Received: from pivot.net (msta-aa645.pivot.net [66.186.167.136]) by mail.pivot.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g1RA4GR23544; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 05:04:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C7CA8D2.4060402@pivot.net> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 04:37:22 -0500 From: infotechsys User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Neil Tiffin CC: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: [Gnue-dev] GEASv2 Meeting References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: When and where it this meeting? I thing others would be interested in it. Wayne Neil Tiffin wrote: > Any chance of getting a written or pictorial overview of common prior > to the meeting? > > Neil > > _______________________________________________ > Gnue-dev mailing list > Gnue-dev@gnu.org > http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue-dev > > From peter@manorcon.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 27 02:24:21 2002 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.88]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16fyRp-0001YZ-00 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 02:24:21 -0500 Received: from manorcon.demon.co.uk ([158.152.23.141] helo=manorcon) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16fyRn-0009r3-0U for gnue@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 07:24:20 +0000 Received: from peter by manorcon with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 16fyKn-00009i-00 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 07:17:05 +0000 Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 07:17:05 +0000 From: Peter Sullivan To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: GNUE ledger/ journal data schema Message-ID: <20020227071705.A292@manorcon> Reply-To: Peter Sullivan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: x-unknown X-Mailer: Balsa 0.6.0 Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: (I thought I had posted this last week, but no sign of it.) In article <5.1.0.14.0.20020217170440.035208f0@popmail.cortland.com>, Todd Boyle writes >Would your projects be willing to provide documentation of >your transaction ledger or journal data schema, and if available, >your GL interface, to this collection, at > http://www.arapxml.net/research.htm ? Hi Todd. Not sure if anyone has replied privately yet or not. Because GNUe and all its documentation is distributed under the GNU Public License (GPL), it is freely redistributable for whatever purpose you want to use it for. There are a few conditions about allowing people access to the 'source code' if you redistribute, but these shouldn't be a problem in this context - it's pretty difficult to prevent people accessing the 'source code' of web documents. For full details of the license, see http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html In other words, you don't even need to ask. In case you haven't found it yet, the GL data schema is at: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/packa ges/finance/package-doc/Accounting/glpost.html Note that this is currently written on the assumption that it is going to be used with the GNUe Application Server, and is thus written as a object-orientated .gcd (GNUe Class Definition). However, the mapping to a normal relational database model should be fairly obvious. It looks as if the main focus of your site is trying to get some kind of standard XML definitions for General Ledger data. Although GNUe still uses relational databases as its storage mechanism - for any reasonable size of database, it's going to be much more efficient - it does use XML 'natively' in lots of other places, including the Forms definitions themselves and as the native output format of the Reports module (when that is finished). Oh, and GNUe Integrator is intended to be a means of getting data into and out of other systems (either batch interface or real time) using XML as well. Something else you might like to have a look at, if you haven't already, is the British government's documents at http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/interoperability/egif_document.asp?docnum=263 This will make the use of XML schemas compulsory in the British public sector as a mechanism for transferring data between systems. -- Peter Sullivan From mtr+gnue@dull.net Wed Feb 27 10:55:59 2002 Received: from tandem.milestonerdl.com ([204.107.138.1]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16g6Qw-000728-00 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:55:59 -0500 Received: from tandem.milestonerdl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tandem.milestonerdl.com (8.12.0/8.12.0) with ESMTP id g1RGEB9j077138 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:14:11 -0600 (CST) Received: (from marc@localhost) by tandem.milestonerdl.com (8.12.0/8.12.0/Submit) id g1RGE9dT077137 for gnue@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:14:09 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:14:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <200202271614.g1RGE9dT077137@tandem.milestonerdl.com> X-Authentication-Warning: tandem.milestonerdl.com: marc set sender to mtr+gnue@dull.net using -f Subject: How many have spotted Microsoft's lastest move VS its customers? From: MR To: gnue@gnu.org Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: How many have seen this link? http://www.theregus.com/content/4/24166.html It seems Microsoft wants to become a CRM Vendor. This might be a good time to: 1) point out that if you want to help 'kill the beast or Redmond' you should help the GnuE project. 2) ask the vendors of the Microsoft centric software to consider making their code run on *BSD/*Linux. (and to think The Linux Fund people felt there was no need to sponser people to make an open source accounting package.) From mtr+gnue@dull.net Wed Feb 27 11:16:17 2002 Received: from tandem.milestonerdl.com ([204.107.138.1]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16g6kb-0008F4-00 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:16:17 -0500 Received: from tandem.milestonerdl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tandem.milestonerdl.com (8.12.0/8.12.0) with ESMTP id g1RGYU9j077285 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:34:30 -0600 (CST) Received: (from marc@localhost) by tandem.milestonerdl.com (8.12.0/8.12.0/Submit) id g1RGYSY6077284 for gnue@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:34:28 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:34:28 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <200202271634.g1RGYSY6077284@tandem.milestonerdl.com> X-Authentication-Warning: tandem.milestonerdl.com: marc set sender to mtr+gnue@dull.net using -f Subject: If you are not tracking SQL-Ledger...a summary From: MR To: gnue@gnu.org Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >Technology is changing so qickly, so by the time the standards are produced they become outdated. Yet, basic accounting doesn't. Creative ENRON account will change however :-) >For example I see SQL-ledger.org going in this direction very quickly. Mr. Simader has not been following the standards issues to date. I am not sure if he wants to implement whatever he thinks of, or what the standard(s) say should be implemented. Correct implementations of standards allows for interoperation. Thus, say i an XML based report generation software could chat with a totally different GL sub-system. (a rising tide floats all boats) sql-ledger has made progress over freemoney and other projects by having useable code, even though I don't find it as useful as I found Cougar Mountain. As time passes, it will become more useful. They have made enough progress to be shipping in the latest SuSE (I think it was SuSE), and the Debian linux version has an interest. I think that it would also be shipping by default with Mandrak also. only 176+ more linux versions to go. (it hasn't made it to FreeBSD yet) [I posted this to the list once b4 and it seemed not to have made it] From dyfet@ostel.com Wed Feb 27 12:19:30 2002 Received: from [65.204.5.82] (helo=andromeda.sys) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16g7jm-0005JA-00 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:19:30 -0500 Received: from ostel.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by andromeda.sys (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g1RHJ7T11018; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:19:08 -0500 Message-ID: <3C7D150B.3050702@ostel.com> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:19:07 -0500 From: David Sugar User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.7) Gecko/20020107 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: MR CC: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Re: How many have spotted Microsoft's lastest move VS its customers? References: <200202271614.g1RGE9dT077137@tandem.milestonerdl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I am actually well aware of this development, and I have given some thought about what we need to do in CRM in Free Software in general, as well as GNU Enterprise specifically. GNU Enterprise/Bayonne integration could well prove especially oppertune in regards to what we can potentially do in CRM. Another area I have considered recently had been creating a prepaid calling billing application under GNU Enteprise as part of a complete GNUE/Bayonne prepaid calling solution. MR wrote: >How many have seen this link? >http://www.theregus.com/content/4/24166.html > >It seems Microsoft wants to become a CRM Vendor. > >This might be a good time to: >1) point out that if you want to help 'kill the beast or Redmond' you >should help the GnuE project. >2) ask the vendors of the Microsoft centric software to consider making >their code run on *BSD/*Linux. > >(and to think The Linux Fund people felt there was no need to sponser >people to make an open source accounting package.) > > >_______________________________________________ >Gnue mailing list >Gnue@gnu.org >http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue > From tboyle@rosehill.net Wed Feb 27 13:04:59 2002 Received: from deneb.cortland.com ([199.254.229.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16g8Rm-0001Ww-00 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:04:58 -0500 Received: from ppro180.rosehill.net (rosehill.net [207.229.102.93]) by deneb.cortland.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA24446; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:04:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: deneb.cortland.com: Host rosehill.net [207.229.102.93] claimed to be ppro180.rosehill.net Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020227095954.0382acd0@popmail.cortland.com> X-Sender: tboyle@popmail.cortland.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:11:34 -0800 To: MR , gnue@gnu.org From: Todd Boyle Subject: Re: How many have spotted Microsoft's lastest move VS its customers? In-Reply-To: <200202271614.g1RGE9dT077137@tandem.milestonerdl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At 08:14 AM 2/27/02, MR wrote: >How many have seen this link? >http://www.theregus.com/content/4/24166.html > >It seems Microsoft wants to become a CRM Vendor. Why would I bother reading any devious lies from Redmond? It is perfectly obvious that this company's products are not only designed strategically to entrap me and my data, but they are dedicated to unfair treatment of competitors and even think that's perfectly OK! >This might be a good time to: >1) point out that if you want to help 'kill the beast or Redmond' you >should help the GnuE project. When the GNUE project is ready to cooperate with other business software developers by paying attention to global standards of interoperability, I might be more interested in GNUE. At present, quite honestly I recommend users stay away from GNUE. The most important thing to achieve in this decade is that business systems communicate. GNUE is otherwise, just a cost-saving thing, to try to reproduce in a small way, the standalone and LAN software of the last decade. Sorry to be critical. >2) ask the vendors of the Microsoft centric software to consider making >their code run on *BSD/*Linux. YES! :-) >(and to think The Linux Fund people felt there was no need to sponser >people to make an open source accounting package.) Accounting is dead. We need software that makes business more efficient. The word accounting to me, implies some people other than the operating people who executed transactions, sitting around and processing them and editing them, and cleaning up the data---and charging a fee for it! Can't you see the whole Accounting industry and software industry are just setup to scam fees out of the business community? When there is a machine-readable data dictionary in common use among all the global community, the pattern will be broken because there will no longer be "differentiation" and cool "improvements" that lock you into vendors. There will be only 10% of the number of accountants needed to parse the transactions into financial statements and tax returns, I urge all GNUE developers to get involved in standards at the semantic level. Thanks for your patience, Respectfully, Todd Boyle CPA and carnival barker From infotechsys@pivot.net Thu Feb 28 13:11:32 2002 Received: from mail.pivot.net ([205.231.144.8]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16gV1g-0000yA-00 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:11:32 -0500 Received: from pivot.net (msta-ab319.pivot.net [66.186.169.65]) by mail.pivot.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g1SIBUm12011 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:11:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C7E6C7E.6010901@pivot.net> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:44:30 -0500 From: infotechsys User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnue@gnu.org Subject: Test! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Just seeing if my system broke. From szsciman@yahoo.com Thu Feb 28 21:07:57 2002 Received: from smtp011.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.173.31]) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16gcSi-0005Mt-00 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:07:56 -0500 Received: from szsciman (AUTH LOGIN) at unknown (HELO self) (szsciman@210.21.224.100) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 02:07:02 -0000 Message-ID: <001601c1c0c8$c0c1c0c0$2700a8c0@creative> From: "Ke Deng" To: "GNUe" Subject: An Analysis Pattern for Inventories Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:28:15 +0800 Organization: Compass Workshop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C1C10B.CC365B80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: gnue-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: gnue-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: gnue@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C1C10B.CC365B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi, I don't know how do you think of "Analysis Pattern".It should be useful in proposal stage though it could bring some workload to study but it is a starting point and helpful. I have found an Analysis Pattern for Inventories (in attachment file)-Stock Manager which should be useful for GNUe project.Whether use it or not depend on your decision,I just hope it helpful to you. thanks, Ke Deng. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C1C10B.CC365B80 Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Fernandez2.pdf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Fernandez2.pdf" JVBERi0xLjIgDSXi48/TDQogDTEwIDAgb2JqDTw8DS9MZW5ndGggMTEgMCBSDS9GaWx0ZXIgL0Zs YXRlRGVjb2RlIA0+Pg1zdHJlYW0NCkiJnVfLcuO2Ev0C/0MvnZTNAd9iVrHjcdVUZapcY6eymJkF REISrklCAUj7Kl+fg5ceM3Jyc2UvJBJAd58+fbpx+3RRplVSl5Qvkqwkerq7YGT/9Jou3t0zauxL elpdsCR331q8pKdXukx/oKf/XFwXmdtfVWHlHb27Tykt/HGri2uWpHm28DsT1pS5304nn8dJtc/0 kY98LfRPdDPin/c7Iw098GkSeqSV0vRhfBHjpLQUxllndJ2zg11GaRacZZmzCOuM5WdN/u3nfTdz 3Sm6TegexvnYiT+jxRjbnTs9Z2WMrUyb/8XQndhOCakV/aKG7YzY6LGVYmwFwQy9H9dyFELLcX21 t5gnB4N1WgWDaVFk/2DwvgdYHaebqefjJFv6bZQvQhs57a7oVrWcPvFJjVd0/yvleZGn3wfJjpP+ 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