From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jul 19 16:46:22 2020 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1jxGCU-0007v3-HT for mharc-help-librejs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jul 2020 16:46:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47222) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jxGCT-0007uv-Pi for help-librejs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jul 2020 16:46:21 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:45145) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jxGCR-0007YP-7N for help-librejs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jul 2020 16:46:21 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC37316005F for ; Sun, 19 Jul 2020 22:46:15 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1595191576; bh=19ZUUx2p8qNTFgGphKiGjyVNtygm0oBfdfkjTUkwznc=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=JwJKNl6suF/3Zwe7dmObiE9oFTl0ip91lKG+el+0LDN+ng0o2LxwdYFuzyNn5s50k Xl6wX+3KwAW+6RnoRfsxX/FsrPemqq/2TzRVdZYEnkMrlx3FtRIxIvCOpNse3SwdLl qA1PeHEbRcVX/V1EkL8LUclGAT9Yvv1lhSaGX7ofnLIMDbEGMpurvX6TbPWVI0XPOd 5lv6to2pNLO2/hGxLslV92kw71R7K3u58aiUBX7Mg3YgZkbahWNENaZApTpLvty7Rq 8190N9v/ODVYGcCpwcpMXpcc3mBTc9JKNjMEg6H11Jpz0BaX9H4Z1EK9tK2Y9FsTmK V65QCnVQuwZAA== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4B8xj31wqKz9rxB for ; Sun, 19 Jul 2020 22:46:14 +0200 (CEST) From: John Scott To: help-librejs@gnu.org Subject: How to express dual licensing Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 16:46:08 -0400 Message-ID: <29544471.2Klr1rKWDS@t450> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart8768675.KPtdWS51bP"; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=jscott@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/07/19 16:09:12 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-librejs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 20:46:22 -0000 --nextPart8768675.KPtdWS51bP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello, I'm working on adding license information for Debian's Package Tracker. I just came upon a JavaScript file with this header: /*! * jQuery Cookie Plugin v1.3 * https://github.com/carhartl/jquery-cookie * * Copyright 2011, Klaus Hartl * Dual licensed under the MIT or GPL Version 2 licenses. * http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php * http://www.opensource.org/licenses/GPL-2.0 */ As opposed to using web tables, I've been adding comments like // @license magnet:? xt=urn:btih:d3d9a9a6595521f9666a5e94cc830dab83b65699&dn=expat.txt Expat to files until now. What would be the best way to handle this situation so LibreJS recognizes that it's free? My gut instinct is to just mark it as Expat since it's more permissive, and in fact I wonder what the dual licensing achieves in this case since it's GPL-compatible. Any hints? --nextPart8768675.KPtdWS51bP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYIAB0WIQT287WtmxUhmhucNnhyvHFIwKstpwUCXxSxEAAKCRByvHFIwKst p24vAP9XmC0xMdu8qZQAzd1Zn1pzbjHqWb5pGLDEj27sxVRktQEA+eRoImzE5X8t 7etBmAPFD3X/xBImV7HxAx76HqQKwA8= =cBEg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart8768675.KPtdWS51bP-- From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Jul 21 15:38:31 2020 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1jxy5v-0001Vn-DZ for mharc-help-librejs@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 15:38:31 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58952) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jxy5t-0001VZ-Sq for help-librejs@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 15:38:29 -0400 Received: from relay-2.mailobj.net ([213.182.54.5]:42565) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jxy5r-0000Xo-CZ for help-librejs@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 15:38:29 -0400 Received: from v-1c.localdomain (unknown [192.168.90.161]) by relay-2.mailobj.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8716A129B; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 21:38:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-1.net-c.com [213.182.54.15] with ESMTP Tue, 21 Jul 2020 21:38:22 +0200 (CEST) X-EA-Auth: o7VHEqkdJb15yumaged0yq3IhOoDEMMSuIsZRR+Z5S2F/E/wQN++r5Tio+BT2yG09RPg5/8MnkUDa0Ei6PlsNnl4Cc7qyXWy From: Dmitry Alexandrov To: John Scott Cc: help-librejs@gnu.org Subject: Re: How to express dual licensing In-Reply-To: <29544471.2Klr1rKWDS@t450> (John Scott's message of "Sun, 19 Jul 2020 16:46:08 -0400") References: <29544471.2Klr1rKWDS@t450> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) OpenPGP: id=525F7E60AD812C2361752BB4C8B0F8548EE7F3E7; url=https://openpgpkey.gnui.org/.well-known/openpgpkey/gnui.org/hu/hr4k5tkxm6shwdc18su4bkm34w3dctjd Mail-Copies-To: always Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 22:38:20 +0300 Message-ID: <1rl4vetv.dag@gnui.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=213.182.54.5; envelope-from=dag@gnui.org; helo=relay-2.mailobj.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/07/21 15:38:22 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-librejs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 19:38:30 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John Scott wrote: > I just came upon a JavaScript file with this header: > * Dual licensed under the MIT or GPL Version 2 licenses. > * http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php > * http://www.opensource.org/licenses/GPL-2.0 > My gut instinct is to just mark it as Expat since it's more permissive I was under impression, that LibreJS is fine with multiple @license state= ments. // @license magnet:?xt=3Durn:btih:d3d9a9a6595521f9666a5e94cc830dab83b65699= &dn=3Dexpat.txt Expat // @license magnet:?xt=3Durn:btih:cf05388f2679ee054f2beb29a391d25f4e673ac3= &dn=3Dgpl-2.0.txt GPLv2-only So what=CA=BCs actually the issue? Yes, it will really take only the first= one into account, but that=CA=BCs more that enough to fulfil its task: to = say whether a piece of javascript is free. > I wonder what the dual licensing achieves in this case since it's GPL-co= mpatible. The same as with any other dual-licensing: you are free from complying the = conditions of the first licence if the the other one suits your better. Terms of the Expat licence are in fact quite obnoxious for a webapp: | The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included i= n all copies or substantial portions of the Software. so the many find it venial to simply ignore them. In this very case, though, it=CA=BCs indeed does not help anyone much, sinc= e GNU GPLv2 _only_ in hardly an attractive choice. P. S. By the way: > As opposed to using web tables, I've been adding comments like > // @license magnet:? > xt=3Durn:btih:d3d9a9a6595521f9666a5e94cc830dab83b65699&dn=3Dexpat.txt Exp= at have you noticed, that your MUA is trying to hardwrap lines while being una= ble to do that properly? Since there is actually no any sane reason to hardwrap lines, the fix shoul= d be easy, but alas I cannot suggest you how exactly to disable it, as your= mail lacks =E2=80=98User-Agent=E2=80=99 header. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iIMEARYIACsWIQRSX35grYEsI2F1K7TIsPhUjufz5wUCXxdELA0cZGFnQGdudWku b3JnAAoJEMiw+FSO5/PnHlABAN15F3e2ZuojdVrf+SPoXnxI6zEKmTi9JI0yRxo0 LwIjAQDb1dD4u/rgbxUzOit2eImiJsLNSx0gtpnZKNlS6olBBw== =Ip28 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Jul 21 17:48:37 2020 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1jy07p-0001AO-AQ for mharc-help-librejs@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:48:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58470) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jy07n-0001AB-Ts for help-librejs@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:48:35 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:36463) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jy07l-0001nC-JV for help-librejs@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:48:35 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 899B416005F for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 23:48:30 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1595368110; bh=t4CZh+wBF4WU3YsaRQ0x2fop+Nv8Zwt/jGxkY9g+9BQ=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=DWvL77+S/ZY1droiQgHnIYxsHQPgIkaOT6rv8eduulOBI9VfwZq6tatOC6vo2pvXu 63qB877Nvp0MDZQjeMo4AR2JCCkx0MIVDP3fjkJQa4jE234qvFRlfvz0dLWNLP3FDf Bh/05Drm8PHNc6YT7hegEfcFrXc5EqUPSvcJ2T3jup9+RtDu8yMBYF10W1MhjNEoEv xp4UOxl0wDYkArzkhMRfGxr6PGmxslilZWRdXUFcMdqKjrYPGoOngoExucgzMwYTNQ /YrLVzGR07JmMHOLZNpYEMf1gV1yeUDM4u4E1et/nRvLpdLT90rDP9Ofs2XBbO2FIP FAce0ix+HX3VQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4BBBzx6Qxfz9rxM for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 23:48:29 +0200 (CEST) From: John Scott To: help-librejs@gnu.org Subject: Re: How to express dual licensing Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:48:23 -0400 Message-ID: <12569394.FzidgPVLle@t450> In-Reply-To: <1rl4vetv.dag@gnui.org> References: <29544471.2Klr1rKWDS@t450> <1rl4vetv.dag@gnui.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1847542.mh5sINaLRg"; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=jscott@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/07/21 17:48:31 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-librejs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 21:48:36 -0000 --nextPart1847542.mh5sINaLRg Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 3:38:20 PM EDT Dmitry Alexandrov wrote: > Since there is actually no any sane reason to hardwrap lines, the fix sho= uld > be easy, but alas I cannot suggest you how exactly to disable it, as your > mail lacks =E2=80=98User-Agent=E2=80=99 header. Thanks for the heads-up. I'm using KMail, and the awkward line wrapping is= =20 definitely a pain. I sometimes disable it and do the wrapping by hand. Soft= =20 wrapping via format=3Dflowed has not been implemented yet: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D92591 It's really my only criticism of it though. --nextPart1847542.mh5sINaLRg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHQEABYIAB0WIQT287WtmxUhmhucNnhyvHFIwKstpwUCXxdipwAKCRByvHFIwKst p9tYAP0Wi/1DFBUQIgaRt7LWLZ6j77+vY4mxHf1aJ3htj8fFbAD3cI/EfRso11bR 6PXGT6J5lU1W5EMWEIwPCd9SX0CmDg== =WdNZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1847542.mh5sINaLRg-- From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Jul 22 12:03:28 2020 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1jyHDM-0005SW-67 for mharc-help-librejs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:03:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57102) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jyHDJ-0005Oe-39 for help-librejs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:03:25 -0400 Received: from relay-1.mailobj.net ([213.182.54.6]:53063) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jyHDE-0001Ea-QW for help-librejs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 12:03:24 -0400 Received: from v-1c.localdomain (unknown [192.168.90.161]) by relay-1.mailobj.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6106711BF; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 18:03:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-1.net-c.com [213.182.54.15] with ESMTP Wed, 22 Jul 2020 18:03:17 +0200 (CEST) X-EA-Auth: ptkUEe2s50pPDWbZPAKECpEBSJ7QK3H/7Q0Bmqtrr48UrYUK6X3zg7UebRExXq7eHl+azhYj0nDz5Mom6Tly6FBmZT6nAOwx From: Dmitry Alexandrov To: John Scott Cc: help-librejs@gnu.org Subject: Re: How to disable line-wrapping in KMail? (was: How to express dual licensing) In-Reply-To: <12569394.FzidgPVLle@t450> (John Scott's message of "Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:48:23 -0400") References: <29544471.2Klr1rKWDS@t450> <1rl4vetv.dag@gnui.org> <12569394.FzidgPVLle@t450> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) OpenPGP: id=525F7E60AD812C2361752BB4C8B0F8548EE7F3E7; url=https://openpgpkey.gnui.org/.well-known/openpgpkey/gnui.org/hu/hr4k5tkxm6shwdc18su4bkm34w3dctjd Mail-Copies-To: always Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 19:03:05 +0300 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=213.182.54.6; envelope-from=dag@gnui.org; helo=relay-1.mailobj.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/07/22 12:03:17 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-librejs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 16:03:26 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John Scott wrote: > On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 3:38:20 PM EDT Dmitry Alexandrov wrote: >> Since there is actually no any sane reason to hardwrap lines, the fix sh= ould be easy, but alas I cannot suggest you how exactly to disable it, as y= our mail lacks =E2=80=98User-Agent=E2=80=99 header. > > I'm using KMail, and the awkward line wrapping is definitely a pain. Aha! So it=CA=BCs here: Settings / Configure / Composer / [ ] Word wrap at= column. ([ ] means =E2=80=98untick=E2=80=99). > I sometimes =E2=80=B9=E2=80=A6=E2=80=BA do the wrapping by hand. But why?? (I hope you do not just hate your correspondents :-) Do you worry about the ancient SMTP limit of 1000 bytes per line, that is s= till enforced by many MTAs? Don=CA=BCt! This kind of low-level cruft user= s should not be even aware about. KMail takes it into account when encodin= g mail transparently. > Soft wrapping via format=3Dflowed has not been implemented yet: https://b= ugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D92591 And let me guess, it will never be. Why to implement a failed standard, th= at is supposed to be an ideal solution to no problem? Not to say, it would not help in this very case. > It's really my only criticism of it though. Yes, indeed, KMail is a mail client that really suck less [0]. ;-) [0] https://www.google.com/search?gbv=3D1&q=3DAll+mail+clients+suck.+This+o= ne+just+sucks+less --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iIMEARYIACsWIQRSX35grYEsI2F1K7TIsPhUjufz5wUCXxhjOQ0cZGFnQGdudWku b3JnAAoJEMiw+FSO5/Pnuv8BAOMtLqX9tb+qWIWL2A/7tXorqefF9ptm295pA4m+ hEAXAQDz/D0RbauDabmuU433dy3OtIqKIu5FugAiZ7/4q/4iDg== =Gkhw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Jul 22 13:23:44 2020 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1jyIT2-0007tH-9k for mharc-help-librejs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:23:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52650) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jyIT0-0007rK-Jr for help-librejs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:23:42 -0400 Received: from guinea.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.79]:24846) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jyISx-00068S-Vo for help-librejs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:23:42 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|bill-auger@peers.community Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 129C8101817 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:23:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a89.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-22-23.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.22.23]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 385251018F0 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:23:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|bill-auger@peers.community Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a89.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.8); Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:23:33 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|bill-auger@peers.community X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Fearful-Belong: 1bd87615225d4d1b_1595438613639_1291225109 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1595438613639:24821539 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1595438613639 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a89.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a89.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 244EBB3A10 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 10:23:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=peers.community; h=date :from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=peers.community; bh=r MYLwHo4FoRTZ2sL+WT0BYl/O+o=; b=hwE7Qp7PMMvGsypiACqm3/5yqbJ5IePOc qkGIUKuUzgd+uru3LOjZH5jbXOceY87v2Gv86LV7sMHgWkhtMhznVE2aExjNjCaU wJdWwxO5VbW/uv8zE/rE/BDCZHGf5t9G35plddPTYWlcg5XoHB3vwsrNHNjN6yIf 69PuOvGg/s= Received: from parabola (024-151-054-144.res.spectrum.com [24.151.54.144]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: bill-auger@peers.community) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a89.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6CDA4B3A0F for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 10:23:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:21:25 -0400 X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a89 From: bill-auger To: help-librejs@gnu.org Subject: Re: How to disable line-wrapping in KMail? (was: How to express dual licensing) Message-ID: <20200722132125.102a7f62@parabola> In-Reply-To: References: <29544471.2Klr1rKWDS@t450> <1rl4vetv.dag@gnui.org> <12569394.FzidgPVLle@t450> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.6 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduiedrgeelgddutdekucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpeffhffvuffkjghfofggtgfgsehtqhertdertdejnecuhfhrohhmpegsihhllhdqrghughgvrhcuoegsihhllhdqrghughgvrhesphgvvghrshdrtghomhhmuhhnihhthieqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepteetieefgeelhffftedvteejudefveeujedvffehveegueeivdetkeevgeffieetnecukfhppedvgedrudehuddrheegrddugeegnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghlohepphgrrhgrsgholhgrpdhinhgvthepvdegrdduhedurdehgedrudeggedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthhepsghilhhlqdgruhhgvghruceosghilhhlqdgruhhgvghrsehpvggvrhhsrdgtohhmmhhunhhithihqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegsihhllhdqrghughgvrhesphgvvghrshdrtghomhhmuhhnihhthidpnhhrtghpthhtohephhgvlhhpqdhlihgsrhgvjhhssehgnhhurdhorhhg Received-SPF: pass client-ip=23.83.209.79; envelope-from=bill-auger@peers.community; helo=guinea.birch.relay.mailchannels.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/07/22 13:23:34 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -30 X-Spam_score: -3.1 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-librejs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:23:42 -0000 On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 22:38:20 +0300 Dmitry wrote: > Since there is actually no any sane reason to hardwrap lines, On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 19:03:05 +0300 Dmitry wrote: > John Scott wrote: > > I sometimes =E2=80=B9=E2=80=A6=E2=80=BA do the wrapping by hand. =20 >=20 > But why?? (I hope you do not just hate your correspondents :-) > Do you worry about the ancient SMTP limit of 1000 bytes per there is a reason, actually - just last week, i watched a talk by Kevlin Henney, in which he explained it - the reason why email clients and text editors have the auto-wrapping and column guides features, is because people tend to read better with short lines, around 60-80 characters maximum, which can be read without turning one's head from side-to-side - when lines of text are longer than that, people tend to lose interest you will find that most news/blog websites follow that rule of thumb - books have been printed that way for centuries From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Jul 23 03:40:30 2020 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1jyVqA-0007Fx-N1 for mharc-help-librejs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 03:40:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51958) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jySPs-00038n-DV for help-librejs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 00:01:08 -0400 Received: from vsmtp92.cm.dream.jp ([2001:2e8:702::236:70:100]:60607 helo=vsmtp92.cm.dti.ne.jp) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jySPq-0005FB-B4 for help-librejs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 00:01:08 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.4] (61.245.48.46.er.eaccess.ne.jp [61.245.48.46]) by vsmtp92.cm.dti.ne.jp (3.11v) with ESMTP AUTH id 06N410Ui010567; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 13:01:00 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: How to disable line-wrapping in KMail? To: help-librejs@gnu.org References: <29544471.2Klr1rKWDS@t450> <1rl4vetv.dag@gnui.org> <12569394.FzidgPVLle@t450> <20200722132125.102a7f62@parabola> From: "fred.k" Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 12:59:49 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200722132125.102a7f62@parabola> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: none client-ip=2001:2e8:702::236:70:100; envelope-from=fred.k@member.fsf.org; helo=vsmtp92.cm.dti.ne.jp X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -8 X-Spam_score: -0.9 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 03:40:29 -0400 X-BeenThere: help-librejs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 04:01:08 -0000 Hi everyone, On 2020/07/23 2:21, bill-auger wrote: > because people tend to read better with short lines, around 60-80 > characters maximum, Right. I prefer those line lengths, too. My belief is that mailers (I use thunderbird) do the heavy lifting when it comes to wrapping lines.  Human senders/readers do not have to, and should not have to, break and wrap any lines. If you do, you screwed up your mailer formatting algorithm. My mail composer breaks lines at about 70-80 bytes, put a trailing space (0x20) before sending to SMTP.  When I place a 'return' at the end of a paragraph, then it'd be sent without trailing space character.  The receiving mailer put all those space-trailed lines into a long one-line paragraph, and then wraps-around to fit into a window at word breaks. Suggestions are welcome if somebody know where these processes are documented. I was once curious about the 'escape sequences' that a plain text mail can be accentuated by asterisks *bold* , slashes /italic/ , underscores _whatever_ , a line with two hyphens (and space) only to precede 'signature' block, things like that. -- Fred From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Jul 23 10:31:25 2020 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1jycFp-0003Ye-Mb for mharc-help-librejs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 10:31:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47458) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jycFo-0003YR-Fa for help-librejs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 10:31:24 -0400 Received: from relay-2.mailobj.net ([213.182.54.5]:33535) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jycFk-0007mT-KA for help-librejs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 10:31:24 -0400 Received: from v-1c.localdomain (unknown [192.168.90.161]) by relay-2.mailobj.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7F72912EF; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 16:31:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-1.net-c.com [213.182.54.15] with ESMTP Thu, 23 Jul 2020 16:31:14 +0200 (CEST) X-EA-Auth: yXT/2+MRQcYYcOEEaZiaiR6fnpF//tn59mNeWucBGwy6MbKKNNNgnw71ZI+N7z7+uXJ4gvYogqsh1FocuYkn7zqLXtWyTPla From: Dmitry Alexandrov To: bill-auger Cc: help-librejs@gnu.org Subject: Re: Origins of hardwrapping (was: How to disable line-wrapping in KMail?) In-Reply-To: <20200722132125.102a7f62@parabola> (bill-auger@peers.community's message of "Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:21:25 -0400") References: <29544471.2Klr1rKWDS@t450> <1rl4vetv.dag@gnui.org> <12569394.FzidgPVLle@t450> <20200722132125.102a7f62@parabola> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) OpenPGP: id=525F7E60AD812C2361752BB4C8B0F8548EE7F3E7; url=https://openpgpkey.gnui.org/.well-known/openpgpkey/gnui.org/hu/hr4k5tkxm6shwdc18su4bkm34w3dctjd Mail-Copies-To: always Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 17:31:06 +0300 Message-ID: <8sfatiad.dag@gnui.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=213.182.54.5; envelope-from=dag@gnui.org; helo=relay-2.mailobj.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/07/23 10:31:14 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-librejs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 14:31:24 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable bill-auger wrote: > On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 22:38:20 +0300 Dmitry wrote: >> Since there is actually no any sane reason to hardwrap lines, > > there is a reason, actually - just last week, i watched a talk by Kevlin = Henney, in which he explained it - the reason why email clients =E2=80=B9= =E2=80=A6=E2=80=BA have the auto-wrapping =E2=80=B9=E2=80=A6=E2=80=BA, is b= ecause people tend to read better with short lines Unfortunately, I do not know what talk is was and what exactly K. Henney ex= plained there, but the above is plain wrong. The origins of hardwrapping i= n mail have nothing to do with user=CA=BCs comfort. It becomes pretty obvious, when one recalls that no more modern system gain= such an obnoxious feature, despite human nature hardly changed over the pa= st decades. What have changed, and dramatically have, is machine capabilit= ies. As we know, email dates back to the very dawn of desktop computing, w= hen slurping a whole letter (many thousands of bytes!) into memory was ofte= n unaffordable luxury, it had to be processed screamingly =E2=80=94 by smal= l chunks, which are sensible both to machine and to user. A line was natur= al choice. But how much exactly =E2=80=98a line=E2=80=99 should be: mail is by definit= ion supposed to be composed by one person on one machine, but read by anoth= er person on another machine =E2=80=94 how can one make choices for the oth= er? Well, there was just no choice: display sizes happened to be more or l= ess uniform back then, so line width was universal constant. > around 60-80 characters maximum Yep. So, just as I said, if you hate your correspondents, forcing them to = read lines that are wider that they are comfortable with, is a perfect choi= ce. Bonus point, if your letter will be rendered in lines of alternating w= idth, e. g.: 50 / 30 / 50 / 30... > you will find that most news/blog websites follow that rule of thumb Do they? A few years ago they generally did not try to set max-width. I= =CA=BCve just checked: Wikipedia and LiveJournal still do not. I missed th= e chance to collect an amount of personal observations on everyday basis: e= ven if there would be a limit in author=CA=BCs CSS my userstyle would overr= ide it anyway, hence the uncertainty. Either way, it=CA=BCs not relevant: they definitely do not mix content with= representation. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iIMEARYIACsWIQRSX35grYEsI2F1K7TIsPhUjufz5wUCXxmfKg0cZGFnQGdudWku b3JnAAoJEMiw+FSO5/Pn2EIA/0OfkffjEBK/+4YU5nbqS5l+CNV9a9IVh8ZAAiwS Z/S/AQD9i/+VsRdUXrUQ1lK8WSKWhdzkezzH03wEdfPOaHV9AA== =dncG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--