From Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de Thu Sep 05 19:04:36 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17n5fw-0008Ux-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:04:36 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17n5fu-0008U9-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:04:35 -0400 Received: from porta.u64.de ([194.77.88.106]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17n5ft-0008T4-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:04:33 -0400 Received: from (ulysses) [212.23.136.22] by porta.u64.de with asmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17n6fS-0006OH-00; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 02:08:11 +0200 Received: from marcus by ulysses with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17n5fq-0001Ab-00 for ; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 01:04:30 +0200 Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 01:04:30 +0200 From: Marcus Brinkmann To: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: iterator macros and requiring gcc >= 3.0 and -std=c9x Message-ID: <20020905230430.GD630@212.23.136.22> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, I would like some iterator macros for the driver plugin code in the console client. I have written this so far: #define driver_iterate(drv) \ for (mutex_lock (&driver_list_lock), drv = &driver_list[0]; \ drv <= &driver_list[driver_list_len - 1]; \ drv++, (drv == &driver_list[driver_list_len - 1] \ ? mutex_unlock (&driver_list_lock) : 0) Which can be used like this: driver_t driver; driver_iterate (driver) { printf ("%s\n", driver->ops->name); } Neal pointed out that C99 allows to define variables in statements, so the following would work: #define driver_iterate \ for (mutex_lock (&driver_list_lock), driver_t driver = &driver_list[0]; \ driver <= &driver_list[driver_list_len - 1]; \ driver++, (driver == &driver_list[driver_list_len - 1] \ ? mutex_unlock (&driver_list_lock) : 0) Which can be used like this: driver_iterate { printf ("%s\n", driver->ops->name); } eliminating the need for a user-defined variable. It's no big deal, but if you prefer the second version, we need to use -std=c9x in our CFLAGS. What do you think? Thanks, Marcus -- `Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.' GNU http://www.gnu.org marcus@gnu.org Marcus Brinkmann The Hurd http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/ Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de http://www.marcus-brinkmann.de/ From roland@frob.com Thu Sep 05 19:12:46 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17n5np-0001xm-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:12:45 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17n5nn-0001xa-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:12:45 -0400 Received: from h00c095e26426.ne.client2.attbi.com ([66.31.43.253] helo=perdition.linnaean.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17n5nn-0001xW-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:12:43 -0400 Received: by perdition.linnaean.org (Postfix, from userid 5281) id 4FCFE1B9D7; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 19:12:43 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Roland McGrath To: Marcus Brinkmann Cc: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: iterator macros and requiring gcc >= 3.0 and -std=c9x In-Reply-To: Marcus Brinkmann's message of Fri, 6 September 2002 01:04:30 +0200 <20020905230430.GD630@212.23.136.22> X-Windows: it was hard to write; it should be hard to use. Message-Id: <20020905231243.4FCFE1B9D7@perdition.linnaean.org> Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 19:12:43 -0400 (EDT) Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I made it pass -std=gnu99. I meant to do that a while ago. I am fine with using any C99 or GNU extensions you feel like. That's why we're GNU. It is fine now to be compatible only with GCC 3.2 and later (and we can add a configure check to enforce it if there is any need). From neal@bassanio.walfield.org Thu Sep 05 19:16:48 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17n5rk-0002pO-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:16:48 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17n5ri-0002pA-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:16:47 -0400 Received: from [209.113.166.29] (helo=colo.walfield.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17n5rh-0002p6-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:16:45 -0400 Received: from smi206-054.uml.edu (localhost) [129.63.206.54] (mail) by colo.walfield.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 17n5rL-0007rh-00; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 18:16:43 -0500 Received: from neal by localhost with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17n5ui-0003F5-00; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:19:52 -0400 Mail-Copies-To: neal@cs.uml.edu X-QOTD: A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Ghandi To: Marcus Brinkmann Cc: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: iterator macros and requiring gcc >= 3.0 and -std=c9x References: <20020905230430.GD630@212.23.136.22> From: neal@cs.uml.edu (Neal H. Walfield) Date: 05 Sep 2002 19:19:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20020905230430.GD630@212.23.136.22> Message-ID: <87it1kvxbb.fsf@bassanio.walfield.org> Lines: 23 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > I would like some iterator macros for the driver plugin code in the console > client. I have written this so far: > > #define driver_iterate(drv) \ > for (mutex_lock (&driver_list_lock), drv = &driver_list[0]; \ > drv <= &driver_list[driver_list_len - 1]; \ > drv++, (drv == &driver_list[driver_list_len - 1] \ > ? mutex_unlock (&driver_list_lock) : 0) Despite the fact that there will only ever by a single driver_list, I think it is clearer to write #define driver_iterate(driver_list, driver) \ ... As a small note, you need to protect DRV during expansion by surrounding it with parentheses. > eliminating the need for a user-defined variable. It's no big deal, but if > you prefer the second version, we need to use -std=c9x in our CFLAGS. What > do you think? The gcc 3.x manual recommends c99 over c9x. From jbailey@olympus.nisa.net Thu Sep 05 19:19:25 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17n5uH-0003cs-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:19:25 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17n5uE-0003cg-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:19:24 -0400 Received: from olympus.nisa.net ([207.194.212.100]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17n5uC-0003bW-00; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:19:20 -0400 Received: from olympus.nisa.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by olympus.nisa.net (8.12.2/8.12.2/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g85NJHAO014298; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 16:19:17 -0700 Received: (from jbailey@localhost) by olympus.nisa.net (8.12.2/8.12.2/Debian -5) id g85NJHo0014296; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 16:19:17 -0700 Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 16:19:17 -0700 From: Jeff Bailey To: Roland McGrath Cc: Marcus Brinkmann , hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: iterator macros and requiring gcc >= 3.0 and -std=c9x Message-ID: <20020905231917.GD9473@nisa.net> References: <20020905230430.GD630@212.23.136.22> <20020905231243.4FCFE1B9D7@perdition.linnaean.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020905231243.4FCFE1B9D7@perdition.linnaean.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 07:12:43PM -0400, Roland McGrath wrote: > It is fine now to be compatible only with GCC 3.2 and later (and we > can add a configure check to enforce it if there is any need). I don't think there's a need. anyone using Debian can't download older than 3.2 anymore. Anyone compiling from scratch won't be able to build glibc without 3.2 shortly. Tks, Jeff Bailey -- At last you cry out in anguish: "Why me?" God answers: "Why not?" - Sheldon Kopp From Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de Thu Sep 05 19:27:26 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17n622-00074M-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:27:26 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17n620-000749-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:27:25 -0400 Received: from porta.u64.de ([194.77.88.106]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17n61z-000745-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Sep 2002 19:27:23 -0400 Received: from (ulysses) [212.23.136.22] by porta.u64.de with asmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17n71R-0006OJ-00; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 02:30:53 +0200 Received: from marcus by ulysses with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17n61p-0001Dn-00; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 01:27:13 +0200 Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 01:27:13 +0200 From: Marcus Brinkmann To: "Neal H. Walfield" Cc: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: iterator macros and requiring gcc >= 3.0 and -std=c9x Message-ID: <20020905232713.GE630@212.23.136.22> References: <20020905230430.GD630@212.23.136.22> <87it1kvxbb.fsf@bassanio.walfield.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87it1kvxbb.fsf@bassanio.walfield.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 07:19:52PM -0400, Neal H. Walfield wrote: > Despite the fact that there will only ever by a single driver_list, I > think it is clearer to write > > #define driver_iterate(driver_list, driver) \ > ... I see your point, but I think I will leave it in the new form without any arguments. The driver_list* variables are only exported for this macro, and otherwise internal to the driver module. As you said, there will always ever only be one driver list, and thus I want to keep it as simple as possible for now. The driver_load etc functions don't get a driver_list argument either. > As a small note, you need to protect DRV during expansion by > surrounding it with parentheses. Not any longer :) Since Roland changed it, it's gone. > The gcc 3.x manual recommends c99 over c9x. With Roland choosing gnu99, this is moot as well. Thanks, Marcus -- `Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.' GNU http://www.gnu.org marcus@gnu.org Marcus Brinkmann The Hurd http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/ Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de http://www.marcus-brinkmann.de/ From miles@lsi.nec.co.jp Fri Sep 06 05:23:51 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17nFLD-0005Yn-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 05:23:51 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17nFLA-0005YU-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 05:23:50 -0400 Received: from tyo202.gate.nec.co.jp ([202.32.8.202]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17nFLA-0005YO-00; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 05:23:48 -0400 Received: from mailgate4.nec.co.jp ([10.7.69.193]) by TYO202.gate.nec.co.jp (8.11.6/3.7W01080315) with ESMTP id g869Ng424284; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 18:23:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from mailsv.nec.co.jp (mailgate51.nec.co.jp [10.7.69.196]) by mailgate4.nec.co.jp (8.11.6/3.7W-MAILGATE-NEC) with ESMTP id g869NdI12283; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 18:23:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from mcsss2.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp ([10.30.114.133]) by mailsv.nec.co.jp (8.11.6/3.7W-MAILSV-NEC) with ESMTP id g869Nce20844; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 18:23:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (mcspd15 [10.30.114.174]) by mcsss2.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (8.10.2+Sun/3.7Wlsi_mx_6.0) with ESMTP id g869Nbs27037; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 18:23:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (Postfix, from userid 31295) id 5104136F4; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 18:23:37 +0900 (JST) To: Marcus Brinkmann Cc: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: iterator macros and requiring gcc >= 3.0 and -std=c9x References: <20020905230430.GD630@212.23.136.22> Reply-To: Miles Bader System-Type: i686-pc-linux-gnu Blat: Foop From: Miles Bader Date: 06 Sep 2002 18:23:37 +0900 In-Reply-To: <20020905230430.GD630@212.23.136.22> Message-ID: Lines: 20 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Marcus Brinkmann writes: > driver_iterate > { > printf ("%s\n", driver->ops->name); > } > > eliminating the need for a user-defined variable. It's no big deal, but if > you prefer the second version, we need to use -std=c9x in our CFLAGS. What > do you think? Even if C99 lets you declare the variable in the for loop (eliminating the need for a user-declaration), it still seems cleaner to pass the name of the variable to be declared as a macro argument. That way the name `driver' isn't magic. It also lets the user nest your construct (however silly that may be...). -Miles -- .Numeric stability is probably not all that important when you're guessing. From Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fri Sep 06 16:06:20 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17nPMy-00071z-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 16:06:20 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17nPMu-00070i-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 16:06:19 -0400 Received: from porta.u64.de ([194.77.88.106]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17nPMu-0006zj-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 16:06:16 -0400 Received: from (ulysses) [212.23.136.22] by porta.u64.de with asmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17nQMj-0006Rj-00; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 23:10:09 +0200 Received: from marcus by ulysses with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17nPMr-0000JU-00 for ; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 22:06:13 +0200 Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 22:06:13 +0200 From: Marcus Brinkmann To: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: console plugins Message-ID: <20020906200613.GC767@212.23.136.22> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, I wrote plugin support, and tested it today. The current plan is as this: /lib/hurd/VERSION/console/DRIVER.so where VERSION is 0.3 right now and DRIVER is "vga", "pckbd" etc. For this, it seems I need to hardcode the library search path in the console-console executable with -Wl,-rpath=$(libdir)/hurd/$(hurd-version)/console. Then I can use dlopen("DRIVER.so") without worrying about the details of the path. Or should I use a full path in the binary? The reason to not use $(libdir) is that those modules are private to the console client, no other application can sensefully make use of it. The reason to include a version number seems to be common practice, and allows for better compatibility (or lack thereof) across versions. The use of the one global Hurd version is as wrong as in libstore classes ;) Is that setup fine, or do you have better suggestions? Thanks, Marcus -- `Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.' GNU http://www.gnu.org marcus@gnu.org Marcus Brinkmann The Hurd http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/ Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de http://www.marcus-brinkmann.de/ From Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fri Sep 06 16:16:29 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17nPWn-00018M-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 16:16:29 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17nPWk-000180-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 16:16:28 -0400 Received: from porta.u64.de ([194.77.88.106]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17nPWh-00016r-00; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 16:16:23 -0400 Received: from (ulysses) [212.23.136.22] by porta.u64.de with asmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17nQWX-0006Rp-00; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 23:20:17 +0200 Received: from marcus by ulysses with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17nPWf-0000KC-00; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 22:16:21 +0200 Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 22:16:21 +0200 From: Marcus Brinkmann To: Miles Bader Cc: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: iterator macros and requiring gcc >= 3.0 and -std=c9x Message-ID: <20020906201621.GD767@212.23.136.22> References: <20020905230430.GD630@212.23.136.22> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Fri, Sep 06, 2002 at 06:23:37PM +0900, Miles Bader wrote: > Even if C99 lets you declare the variable in the for loop (eliminating > the need for a user-declaration), it still seems cleaner to pass the > name of the variable to be declared as a macro argument. > > That way the name `driver' isn't magic. It also lets the user nest your > construct (however silly that may be...). I agree in general. In this case though, the macro is only used internally (eg, the user is the same program as the one that defines the macro), and it is just more convenient to have it completely automagic. Thanks, Marcus -- `Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.' GNU http://www.gnu.org marcus@gnu.org Marcus Brinkmann The Hurd http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/ Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de http://www.marcus-brinkmann.de/ From roland@frob.com Fri Sep 06 18:36:34 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17nRiM-0003Rv-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 18:36:34 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17nRiK-0003Rj-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 18:36:33 -0400 Received: from h00c095e26426.ne.client2.attbi.com ([66.31.43.253] helo=perdition.linnaean.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17nRiJ-0003Rf-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 18:36:31 -0400 Received: by perdition.linnaean.org (Postfix, from userid 5281) id 6054F1B9F4; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 18:36:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Roland McGrath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Marcus Brinkmann Cc: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: console plugins In-Reply-To: Marcus Brinkmann's message of Fri, 6 September 2002 22:06:13 +0200 <20020906200613.GC767@212.23.136.22> Emacs: it's not slow --- it's stately. Message-Id: <20020906223631.6054F1B9F4@perdition.linnaean.org> Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 18:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: It would be consistent with other modules like nss and libstore to use /lib/console_DRIVER.so.VERSION. Definitely use something.so.VERSION instead of a VERSION directory, anyway. The benefit of not using a subdir at all (instead just a prefixed name) is that you don't need -rpath and an unadorned name in dlopen still works. OTOH, since this is just for one program and not a library, a better match is perl or X server modules. In those cases, it's some separate directory and the program does its own path searching or whatnot to produce an absolute file name for dlopen. From roland@frob.com Tue Sep 17 17:16:46 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17rPiA-0005SB-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:16:46 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17rPi8-0005Rt-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:16:45 -0400 Received: from h00c095e26426.ne.client2.attbi.com ([66.31.43.253] helo=perdition.linnaean.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17rPi8-0005Rj-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:16:44 -0400 Received: by perdition.linnaean.org (Postfix, from userid 5281) id 3EF9D1B9F4; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:16:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Roland McGrath To: Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de Cc: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: copyright years X-zippy-says: Does that mean I'm not a well-adjusted person?? Message-Id: <20020917211643.3EF9D1B9F4@perdition.linnaean.org> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:16:43 -0400 (EDT) Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Never shorten years to a range X-Y, always use a comma-separated list. It is ok to abbreviate years to two digits to keep them shorter, i.e. bad: # Copyright (C) 1993-1999,2001,2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. good: # Copyright (C) 1993,94,95,96,97,98,99,2001,02 Free Software Foundation, Inc. I know everybody else does it. But a long time ago RMS told me his lawyer said to do the latter and not the former. From Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de Tue Sep 17 18:14:38 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17rQcA-0000yi-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:14:38 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17rQc8-0000yW-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:14:38 -0400 Received: from porta.u64.de ([194.77.88.106]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17rQc8-0000yR-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:14:36 -0400 Received: from (ulysses) [212.23.136.22] by porta.u64.de with asmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17rRfA-00065z-00; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 01:21:48 +0200 Received: from marcus by ulysses with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17rQc3-0001uX-00; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:14:31 +0200 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:14:31 +0200 From: Marcus Brinkmann To: Roland McGrath Cc: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: copyright years Message-ID: <20020917221431.GJ367@212.23.136.22> References: <20020917211643.3EF9D1B9F4@perdition.linnaean.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020917211643.3EF9D1B9F4@perdition.linnaean.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 05:16:43PM -0400, Roland McGrath wrote: > Never shorten years to a range X-Y, always use a comma-separated list. > It is ok to abbreviate years to two digits to keep them shorter, > i.e. > > bad: > > # Copyright (C) 1993-1999,2001,2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > > good: > > # Copyright (C) 1993,94,95,96,97,98,99,2001,02 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > > I know everybody else does it. But a long time ago RMS told me his lawyer > said to do the latter and not the former. Ok, thanks. There are many, many files in glibc written this way, that's why I thought I would get away with it. Marcus -- `Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.' GNU http://www.gnu.org marcus@gnu.org Marcus Brinkmann The Hurd http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/ Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de http://www.marcus-brinkmann.de/ From roland@frob.com Tue Sep 17 18:19:32 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17rQgt-0001zj-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:19:31 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17rQgs-0001zW-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:19:31 -0400 Received: from h00c095e26426.ne.client2.attbi.com ([66.31.43.253] helo=perdition.linnaean.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17rQgr-0001zS-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:19:30 -0400 Received: by perdition.linnaean.org (Postfix, from userid 5281) id 612511B9F4; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:19:29 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Roland McGrath To: Marcus Brinkmann Cc: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: copyright years In-Reply-To: Marcus Brinkmann's message of Wednesday, 18 September 2002 00:14:31 +0200 <20020917221431.GJ367@212.23.136.22> X-Zippy-Says: Are we THERE yet? My MIND is a SUBMARINE!! Message-Id: <20020917221929.612511B9F4@perdition.linnaean.org> Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:19:29 -0400 (EDT) Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Ok, thanks. There are many, many files in glibc written this way, that's > why I thought I would get away with it. Chances are nobody really cares. From jbailey@olympus.nisa.net Wed Sep 18 23:53:16 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17rsNQ-0006xG-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 23:53:16 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17rsNO-0006vs-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 23:53:15 -0400 Received: from olympus.nisa.net ([207.194.212.100]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17rsNN-0006tc-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 23:53:13 -0400 Received: from olympus.nisa.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by olympus.nisa.net (8.12.2/8.12.2/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g8J3rCpv020173 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:53:12 -0700 Received: (from jbailey@localhost) by olympus.nisa.net (8.12.2/8.12.2/Debian -5) id g8J3rCTT020171 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:53:12 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:53:12 -0700 From: Jeff Bailey To: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: release directory Message-ID: <20020919035312.GB19089@nisa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Can we consider removing the release directory? I was looking at it (trying to figure out what I need to build there), and I think that it's largely stuff that's not current and is probably best handled elsewhere. I'm willing to take what's there and summarize it in a document on how to make boot floppies. I suspect that's probably a more useful starting place when someone gets around to wanting to do it again anyway. Tks, Jeff Bailey -- learning from failures is nice in theory... but in practice, it sucks :) - Wolfgang Jaehrling From roland@frob.com Wed Sep 18 23:57:31 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17rsRX-0008MA-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 23:57:31 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17rsRV-0008Ly-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 23:57:30 -0400 Received: from h00c095e26426.ne.client2.attbi.com ([66.31.43.253] helo=perdition.linnaean.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17rsRV-0008Lu-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 23:57:29 -0400 Received: by perdition.linnaean.org (Postfix, from userid 5281) id 11ABD1B9F4; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 23:57:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Roland McGrath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Jeff Bailey Cc: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: release directory In-Reply-To: Jeff Bailey's message of Wednesday, 18 September 2002 20:53:12 -0700 <20020919035312.GB19089@nisa.net> X-Zippy-Says: Quick, sing me the BUDAPEST NATIONAL ANTHEM!! Message-Id: <20020919035729.11ABD1B9F4@perdition.linnaean.org> Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 23:57:29 -0400 (EDT) Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I think the mksmallso tricks have been put into some other boot-floppy-making package somewhere. Aside from that there is nothing there worth keeping I don't think. From jbailey@olympus.nisa.net Thu Sep 19 00:05:26 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17rsZC-0000vo-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 00:05:26 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17rsZA-0000uT-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 00:05:25 -0400 Received: from olympus.nisa.net ([207.194.212.100]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17rsZA-0000uP-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 00:05:24 -0400 Received: from olympus.nisa.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by olympus.nisa.net (8.12.2/8.12.2/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g8J45Mpv020284; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 21:05:22 -0700 Received: (from jbailey@localhost) by olympus.nisa.net (8.12.2/8.12.2/Debian -5) id g8J45Lhq020282; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 21:05:21 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 21:05:21 -0700 From: Jeff Bailey To: Roland McGrath Cc: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: release directory Message-ID: <20020919040521.GC19089@nisa.net> References: <20020919035312.GB19089@nisa.net> <20020919035729.11ABD1B9F4@perdition.linnaean.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020919035729.11ABD1B9F4@perdition.linnaean.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, Sep 18, 2002 at 11:57:29PM -0400, Roland McGrath wrote: > I think the mksmallso tricks have been put into some other > boot-floppy-making package somewhere. That logic at least exists in the Debian package. That's why we build the -pic version of our glibc package. Tks, Jeff Bailey -- learning from failures is nice in theory... but in practice, it sucks :) - Wolfgang Jaehrling From Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de Thu Sep 19 09:18:32 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17s1CS-0001pE-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:18:32 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17s1CP-0001o6-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:18:31 -0400 Received: from porta.u64.de ([194.77.88.106]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17s1CO-0001ne-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:18:28 -0400 Received: from (ulysses) [212.23.136.22] by porta.u64.de with asmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17s2Fo-00007W-00; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:26:04 +0200 Received: from marcus by ulysses with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17s1CD-0000Jk-00; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:18:17 +0200 Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:18:17 +0200 From: Marcus Brinkmann To: Roland McGrath Cc: Jeff Bailey , hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: release directory Message-ID: <20020919131816.GB702@212.23.136.22> References: <20020919035312.GB19089@nisa.net> <20020919035729.11ABD1B9F4@perdition.linnaean.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020919035729.11ABD1B9F4@perdition.linnaean.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, Sep 18, 2002 at 11:57:29PM -0400, Roland McGrath wrote: > I think the mksmallso tricks have been put into some other > boot-floppy-making package somewhere. Aside from that there is nothing > there worth keeping I don't think. Yes, Debian used my mklibs.sh, and later rewrote it in python, apparently, but I never chcked if they retained all the functionality (esp if it supports circular library dependencies). My script was never perfect. It never fully supported C++ apps, and it needed regular maintenance to get the glibc linking command right. But it is still there to get the idea how this is done. As I am not doing boot disks for some years now, I didn't maintain it anymore, but it still exists. As for the release directory. The announcements are for interesting from a historical point of view, and somebits here and there are of interest to my, but I just made my private copy of it, and it is still in the CVS repository of course, so I guess we can scrap that. Thanks, Marcus -- `Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.' GNU http://www.gnu.org marcus@gnu.org Marcus Brinkmann The Hurd http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/ Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de http://www.marcus-brinkmann.de/ From Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de Thu Sep 19 09:19:56 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17s1Do-0001yk-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:19:56 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17s1Dm-0001yY-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:19:55 -0400 Received: from porta.u64.de ([194.77.88.106]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17s1Dl-0001yU-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:19:54 -0400 Received: from (ulysses) [212.23.136.22] by porta.u64.de with asmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17s2HK-00007d-00; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:27:39 +0200 Received: from marcus by ulysses with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17s1Dj-0000K7-00 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:19:51 +0200 Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:19:51 +0200 From: Marcus Brinkmann To: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: prep ai mit edu -> gnu org? Message-ID: <20020919131951.GC702@212.23.136.22> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, I just saw that there are still a couple of prep ai mit edu addresses in the docs. Shouldn't they be gnu org? Thanks, Marcus -- `Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.' GNU http://www.gnu.org marcus@gnu.org Marcus Brinkmann The Hurd http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/ Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de http://www.marcus-brinkmann.de/ From jbailey@olympus.nisa.net Thu Sep 19 09:27:41 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17s1LJ-0003AQ-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:27:41 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17s1LH-000394-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:27:40 -0400 Received: from olympus.nisa.net ([207.194.212.100]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17s1LH-00037r-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:27:39 -0400 Received: from olympus.nisa.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by olympus.nisa.net (8.12.2/8.12.2/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g8JDRbpv023551; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 06:27:37 -0700 Received: (from jbailey@localhost) by olympus.nisa.net (8.12.2/8.12.2/Debian -5) id g8JDRbuh023549; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 06:27:37 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 06:27:37 -0700 From: Jeff Bailey To: Marcus Brinkmann Cc: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: prep ai mit edu -> gnu org? Message-ID: <20020919132737.GC23164@nisa.net> References: <20020919131951.GC702@212.23.136.22> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020919131951.GC702@212.23.136.22> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 03:19:51PM +0200, Marcus Brinkmann wrote: > I just saw that there are still a couple of prep ai mit edu > addresses in the docs. Shouldn't they be gnu org? The prep addresses will still work, but it's probably best if they change - Almost all the other GNU documentation has changed now. -- learning from failures is nice in theory... but in practice, it sucks :) - Wolfgang Jaehrling From tb@becket.net Thu Sep 19 16:12:28 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17s7f2-0003Hs-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:12:28 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17s7f0-0003HI-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:12:27 -0400 Received: from vp190174.reshsg.uci.edu ([128.195.190.174] helo=becket.becket.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17s7f0-0003Gn-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:12:26 -0400 Received: from tb by becket.becket.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17s7gY-0005a8-00; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:14:02 -0700 To: Marcus Brinkmann Cc: Roland McGrath , Jeff Bailey , hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: release directory References: <20020919035312.GB19089@nisa.net> <20020919035729.11ABD1B9F4@perdition.linnaean.org> <20020919131816.GB702@212.23.136.22> X-Reply-Permission: Posted or emailed replies to this message constitute permission for an emailed response. X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1F0A1E51 63 28 EB DA E6 44 E5 5E EC F3 04 26 4E BF 1A 92 X-Windows: Live the nightmare. From: tb@becket.net (Thomas Bushnell, BSG) Date: 19 Sep 2002 13:14:02 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20020919131816.GB702@212.23.136.22> Message-ID: <87fzw54u0l.fsf@becket.becket.net> Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Marcus Brinkmann writes: > As for the release directory. The announcements are for interesting from a > historical point of view, and somebits here and there are of interest to my, > but I just made my private copy of it, and it is still in the CVS repository > of course, so I guess we can scrap that. The announcements should remain *somewhere* in CVS; it doesn't matter if they are moved, but I would like it if they are part of the default checkout. They are important parts of the canonical source, and the format of them should be more or less followed for future announcements. From roland@frob.com Thu Sep 19 16:31:15 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17s7xD-0006KO-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:31:15 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17s7xB-0006Jg-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:31:14 -0400 Received: from h00c095e26426.ne.client2.attbi.com ([66.31.43.253] helo=perdition.linnaean.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17s7xA-0006JX-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:31:12 -0400 Received: by perdition.linnaean.org (Postfix, from userid 5281) id 4EA861B9E0; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:31:12 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Roland McGrath To: Marcus Brinkmann Cc: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: prep ai mit edu -> gnu org? In-Reply-To: Marcus Brinkmann's message of Thursday, 19 September 2002 15:19:51 +0200 <20020919131951.GC702@212.23.136.22> X-Antipastobozoticataclysm: When George Bush projectile vomits antipasto on the Japanese. Message-Id: <20020919203112.4EA861B9E0@perdition.linnaean.org> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:31:12 -0400 (EDT) Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > I just saw that there are still a couple of prep ai mit edu addresses in the > docs. Shouldn't they be gnu org? Yes. prep.ai.mit.edu still works (I get plenty of spam through there :) but has not been canonical for a long time. From tb@becket.net Thu Sep 19 19:15:59 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17sAWd-00066k-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 19:15:59 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17sAWb-00066T-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 19:15:58 -0400 Received: from vp190174.reshsg.uci.edu ([128.195.190.174] helo=becket.becket.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17sAWZ-00065e-00; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 19:15:55 -0400 Received: from tb by becket.becket.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17sAYL-00011W-00; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:17:45 -0700 To: Roland McGrath Cc: Marcus Brinkmann , hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: prep ai mit edu -> gnu org? References: <20020919203112.4EA861B9E0@perdition.linnaean.org> X-Reply-Permission: Posted or emailed replies to this message constitute permission for an emailed response. X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1F0A1E51 63 28 EB DA E6 44 E5 5E EC F3 04 26 4E BF 1A 92 X-Windows: A terminal disease. From: tb@becket.net (Thomas Bushnell, BSG) Date: 19 Sep 2002 16:17:45 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20020919203112.4EA861B9E0@perdition.linnaean.org> Message-ID: <87znud602u.fsf@becket.becket.net> Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Roland McGrath writes: > > I just saw that there are still a couple of prep ai mit edu addresses in the > > docs. Shouldn't they be gnu org? > > Yes. prep.ai.mit.edu still works (I get plenty of spam through there :) > but has not been canonical for a long time. prep.ai.mit.edu is like the in-addr.arpa domain. They will still have these two on the starship Enterprise. From roland@frob.com Thu Sep 19 21:20:33 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17sCTB-0004nK-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:20:33 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17sCT9-0004n8-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:20:32 -0400 Received: from h00c095e26426.ne.client2.attbi.com ([66.31.43.253] helo=perdition.linnaean.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17sCT9-0004n4-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:20:31 -0400 Received: by perdition.linnaean.org (Postfix, from userid 5281) id D153B1B9E4; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:20:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Roland McGrath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: new glibc pthreads X-zippy-says: .. If I cover this entire WALL with MAZOLA, wdo I have to give my AGENT ten per cent?? Message-Id: <20020920012030.D153B1B9E4@perdition.linnaean.org> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:20:30 -0400 (EDT) Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: If you read the libc-alpha list you will see an announcement of a new pthreads implementation that Ulrich has done for glibc on Linux. The code there is now only works with very recent Linux 2.5.x kernel support that was written in tandem with the new pthreads design. However, this library is intended to be portable, will eventually be part of glibc proper, and will become the fabled one pthreads to rule them all. I had hoped to have done something on genericized and Mach-specific code for this before now, but have been a complete flake on Hurd-related hacking. Since no ports have been attempted, the code now surely has some organization that is overly specific to the one implementation. But don't worry, there will be plenty of leeway for reorganizing the source for portability and generality (in ways that don't degrade the performance of the optimized cases on Linux). I hope that I will get back in the game soon, and then might well do a lot the Hurd pthreads integration work myself. (Right now I am waiting for a serial board in the mail, then will need some more cables, and still have a borked cross-compilation setup that makes gnumach/oskit kernels that won't boot and haven't looked into it. But one of these days...) From jbailey@olympus.nisa.net Thu Sep 19 22:43:25 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17sDlN-0001yo-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:43:25 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17sDlL-0001yb-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:43:24 -0400 Received: from olympus.nisa.net ([207.194.212.100]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17sDlK-0001yW-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:43:23 -0400 Received: from olympus.nisa.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by olympus.nisa.net (8.12.2/8.12.2/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g8K2hIpv029911; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 19:43:18 -0700 Received: (from jbailey@localhost) by olympus.nisa.net (8.12.2/8.12.2/Debian -5) id g8K2hHDZ029909; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 19:43:17 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 19:43:17 -0700 From: Jeff Bailey To: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" Cc: Marcus Brinkmann , Roland McGrath , hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: release directory Message-ID: <20020920024317.GA29786@nisa.net> References: <20020919035312.GB19089@nisa.net> <20020919035729.11ABD1B9F4@perdition.linnaean.org> <20020919131816.GB702@212.23.136.22> <87fzw54u0l.fsf@becket.becket.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87fzw54u0l.fsf@becket.becket.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 01:14:02PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: > The announcements should remain *somewhere* in CVS; it doesn't > matter if they are moved, but I would like it if they are part of > the default checkout. They are important parts of the canonical > source, and the format of them should be more or less followed for > future announcements. Would you be satisfied with having them in doc/historical or somewhere similar to that? I'm thinking somewhere general that important documents, notes and such can be kept (hopefuly not leading to the same amount of cruft as is in the Emacs source code - But it's probably inevitable). Tks, Jeff Bailey -- learning from failures is nice in theory... but in practice, it sucks :) - Wolfgang Jaehrling From tb@becket.net Thu Sep 19 22:45:24 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17sDnH-00025M-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:45:23 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17sDnG-000259-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:45:23 -0400 Received: from vp190174.reshsg.uci.edu ([128.195.190.174] helo=becket.becket.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17sDnF-000255-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:45:22 -0400 Received: from tb by becket.becket.net with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17sDou-0005VF-00; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 19:47:04 -0700 To: Jeff Bailey Cc: Marcus Brinkmann , Roland McGrath , hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: release directory References: <20020919035312.GB19089@nisa.net> <20020919035729.11ABD1B9F4@perdition.linnaean.org> <20020919131816.GB702@212.23.136.22> <87fzw54u0l.fsf@becket.becket.net> <20020920024317.GA29786@nisa.net> X-Reply-Permission: Posted or emailed replies to this message constitute permission for an emailed response. X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1F0A1E51 63 28 EB DA E6 44 E5 5E EC F3 04 26 4E BF 1A 92 X-Tom-Swiftie: "We'll have to take the stairs," Tom said in an elevated voice From: tb@becket.net (Thomas Bushnell, BSG) Date: 19 Sep 2002 19:47:04 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20020920024317.GA29786@nisa.net> Message-ID: <87znud4btj.fsf@becket.becket.net> Lines: 27 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jeff Bailey writes: > On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 01:14:02PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: > > > The announcements should remain *somewhere* in CVS; it doesn't > > matter if they are moved, but I would like it if they are part of > > the default checkout. They are important parts of the canonical > > source, and the format of them should be more or less followed for > > future announcements. > > Would you be satisfied with having them in doc/historical or somewhere > similar to that? I'm thinking somewhere general that important > documents, notes and such can be kept (hopefuly not leading to the > same amount of cruft as is in the Emacs source code - But it's > probably inevitable). Sure, I don't care much where. My desire is that they be really checked out (not deleted-but-still-in-the-repository). They also are normally *not* distributed in the source tarball (and should therefore not live in such places). That is, they are the developer's private notes, but are still important as such. The official source tarball (which releases we *do* want to make, even if it's not the priority now) would not have these, nor should the corresponding Debian .orig.tgz file. Thomas From roland@frob.com Thu Sep 19 23:27:04 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17sERc-0001Ce-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:27:04 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17sERb-0001CS-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:27:03 -0400 Received: from h00c095e26426.ne.client2.attbi.com ([66.31.43.253] helo=perdition.linnaean.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17sERa-0001CO-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:27:02 -0400 Received: by perdition.linnaean.org (Postfix, from userid 5281) id 522761B9E0; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:27:02 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Roland McGrath To: Jeff Bailey Cc: "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" , Marcus Brinkmann , hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: release directory In-Reply-To: Jeff Bailey's message of Thursday, 19 September 2002 19:43:17 -0700 <20020920024317.GA29786@nisa.net> X-Zippy-Says: ..Everything is....FLIPPING AROUND!! Message-Id: <20020920032702.522761B9E0@perdition.linnaean.org> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:27:02 -0400 (EDT) Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Let's just leave useful text files in the release/ dir and remove all the scripts and whatnot that are not useful. From neal@bassanio.walfield.org Sat Sep 21 21:35:27 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17sveh-0003Sv-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 21:35:27 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17svef-0003Sj-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 21:35:26 -0400 Received: from [209.113.166.29] (helo=colo.walfield.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17svef-0003Sf-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 21:35:25 -0400 Received: from smi206-054.uml.edu (localhost) [129.63.206.54] (mail) by colo.walfield.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 17sveb-0006ch-00; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 20:35:24 -0500 Received: from neal by localhost with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17svj3-00082D-00 for ; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 21:39:57 -0400 Mail-Copies-To: neal@cs.uml.edu X-QOTD: The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. -- William Shakespeare, "Julius Caesar" To: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: commit messages From: neal@cs.uml.edu (Neal H. Walfield) Date: 21 Sep 2002 21:39:56 -0400 Message-ID: <87vg4yls43.fsf@bassanio.walfield.org> Lines: 5 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Would anyone object to adding diffs to the commit messages? I have been using this on a cvs repository and it makes reviewing the code much easier, at least for me. Thanks. From roland@frob.com Sat Sep 21 22:32:28 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17swXs-0002PN-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 22:32:28 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17swXq-0002P5-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 22:32:27 -0400 Received: from h00c095e26426.ne.client2.attbi.com ([66.31.43.253] helo=perdition.linnaean.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17swXq-0002P1-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 22:32:26 -0400 Received: by perdition.linnaean.org (Postfix, from userid 5281) id DA36D1B9E4; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 22:32:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Roland McGrath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: neal@cs.uml.edu (Neal H. Walfield) Cc: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: commit messages In-Reply-To: Neal H. Walfield's message of , 21 September 2002 21:39:56 -0400 <87vg4yls43.fsf@bassanio.walfield.org> X-Shopping-List: (1) Hypnotic retribution collisions (2) Melodramatic eruptions (3) Intermittent relaxation hay Message-Id: <20020922023225.DA36D1B9E4@perdition.linnaean.org> Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 22:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Ok by me. From neal@bassanio.walfield.org Sat Sep 21 22:54:41 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17swtN-0005gH-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 22:54:41 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17swtK-0005g4-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 22:54:40 -0400 Received: from [209.113.166.29] (helo=colo.walfield.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17swtK-0005g0-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 22:54:38 -0400 Received: from smi206-054.uml.edu (localhost) [129.63.206.54] (mail) by colo.walfield.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 17swtH-0008Vp-00; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 21:54:37 -0500 Received: from neal by localhost with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17swxb-00022e-00; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 22:59:03 -0400 Mail-Copies-To: neal@cs.uml.edu X-QOTD: Understanding. A cerebral secretion that enables one having it to know a house from a horse by the roof on the house, Its nature and laws have been exhaustively expounded by Locke, who rode a house, and Kant, who lived in a horse. -- Ambrose Bierce To: Roland McGrath Cc: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: commit messages References: <20020922023225.DA36D1B9E4@perdition.linnaean.org> From: neal@cs.uml.edu (Neal H. Walfield) Date: 21 Sep 2002 22:59:02 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20020922023225.DA36D1B9E4@perdition.linnaean.org> Message-ID: <87r8fmlog9.fsf@bassanio.walfield.org> Lines: 3 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I have successfully cajoled into setting it up. Thanks. From neal@bassanio.walfield.org Sat Sep 21 22:57:57 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17swwX-0006AZ-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 22:57:57 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17swwV-00069v-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 22:57:57 -0400 Received: from [209.113.166.29] (helo=colo.walfield.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17swwV-00069W-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 22:57:55 -0400 Received: from smi206-054.uml.edu (localhost) [129.63.206.54] (mail) by colo.walfield.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 17swwS-0000GN-00; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 21:57:54 -0500 Received: from neal by localhost with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17sx15-00029p-00; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 23:02:39 -0400 Mail-Copies-To: neal@cs.uml.edu X-QOTD: There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence. -- Jeremy S. Anderson, In Computers To: Roland McGrath Cc: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: commit messages References: <20020922023225.DA36D1B9E4@perdition.linnaean.org> <87r8fmlog9.fsf@bassanio.walfield.org> From: neal@cs.uml.edu (Neal H. Walfield) Date: 21 Sep 2002 23:02:39 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87r8fmlog9.fsf@bassanio.walfield.org> Message-ID: <87n0qaloa8.fsf@bassanio.walfield.org> Lines: 4 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: neal@cs.uml.edu (Neal H. Walfield) writes: > I have successfully cajoled into setting it up. ^ Jeff. From Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de Mon Sep 30 13:28:36 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17w4LU-0002TO-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 13:28:36 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17w4LS-0002TB-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 13:28:35 -0400 Received: from porta.u64.de ([194.77.88.106]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17w4LR-0002T6-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 13:28:33 -0400 Received: from (ulysses) [212.23.136.22] by porta.u64.de with asmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17w5SH-0006im-00; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 20:39:41 +0200 Received: from marcus by ulysses with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 17w4LP-0000xF-00 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 19:28:31 +0200 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 19:28:31 +0200 From: Marcus Brinkmann To: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: pthread roadmap Message-ID: <20020930172830.GM392@212.23.136.22> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, let's try to open up a roadmap for pthread in the Hurd. We have: * The Hurd written for cthread. (Neal, do you have patches for some of the Hurd to port it to pthread? I think I remember you talking about it.) * The cthread library in libthreads in the Hurd CVS. * A working pthread implementation on Mach by Neal, which integrates into glibc at the binary level exactly like cthreads does right now. * A pthread implementation for glibc by Ulrich Drepper, which is not ported to the Hurd, but which Roland wanted to. Where do we want to end up: * The Hurd written for pthread. * No thread library in the Hurd source tree. * A pthread library in glibc, which is maintained by the glibc maintainers and has sysdeps for Mach (and L4). How can we get there? * Because of Neal's working pthread library, we _could_ move the Hurd to pthreads right now. We could add his thread library the the Hurd CVS, and migrate the Hurd source gradually (one large chunk is libports and all servers using it, the other programs using it independently could be done individually). This completely isolates this step from the other step. We want to use Neal's pthread library to compile Debian packages that require pthreads. The next Hurd package for Debian GNU/Hurd will have his pthread implementation (at least that's the plan). We might go through an ABI break later in Debian, but that's not a big deal. * Porting pthread in glibc to the Hurd. This has as a prerequisite that Drepper integrates his thread library in glibc. I don't know when this will happen, after 2.3 is released? I don't know enough about the internals to judge how much work this is. It seems to me that Roland plans some changes in the interfaces, and how the stack is set up, etc. This also requires that we move on to oskit-mach, which provides %gs. Probably the more system dependent parts of Neal's thread library would be useful. Maybe even more, I have not compared Drepper's with Neal's implementation. What else needs to be listed here? The question is, if porting/merging the glibc's pthread implementation can happen fast enough to make using Neal's pthread library to port the Hurd to pthreads now worthwhile or not. Roland, do you have an estimate on what timeframe you were thinking of? Thanks, Marcus -- `Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.' GNU http://www.gnu.org marcus@gnu.org Marcus Brinkmann The Hurd http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/ Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de http://www.marcus-brinkmann.de/ From neal@bassanio.walfield.org Mon Sep 30 17:26:33 2002 Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17w83l-00052U-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:26:33 -0400 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17w83j-00051k-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:26:32 -0400 Received: from [209.113.166.29] (helo=colo.walfield.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17w83j-00051L-00 for hurd-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:26:31 -0400 Received: from smi206-054.uml.edu (localhost) [129.63.206.54] (mail) by colo.walfield.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 17w83Z-0006D1-00; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 16:26:22 -0500 Received: from neal by localhost with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17w85C-0002sG-00; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:28:02 -0400 Mail-Copies-To: neal@cs.uml.edu X-QOTD: The question of whether computers can think is just like the question of whether submarines can swim. -- Edsger W. Dijkstra To: Marcus Brinkmann Cc: hurd-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: pthread roadmap References: <20020930172830.GM392@212.23.136.22> From: neal@cs.uml.edu (Neal H. Walfield) Date: 30 Sep 2002 17:28:02 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20020930172830.GM392@212.23.136.22> Message-ID: <87vg4n417h.fsf@bassanio.walfield.org> Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org Errors-To: hurd-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: hurd-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Developers discussion list for GNU Hurd List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > (Neal, do you have patches for some of the Hurd to port it to pthread? I > think I remember you talking about it.) Nothing to speak of. I changed a few libraries to use pthreads instead of cthreads for the port to L4, however, those changes are so tightly integrated into the interface changes I designed for L4 that it would probably be just as easy to start from scratch.