From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 07 13:33:21 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hDBfV-00079b-Gp for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Apr 2019 13:33:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35511) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDBfR-00078r-9I for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 07 Apr 2019 13:33:18 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDBfQ-0007CU-GP for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 07 Apr 2019 13:33:17 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f170.google.com ([209.85.160.170]:40564) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hDBfQ-0007Bg-BD for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 07 Apr 2019 13:33:16 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f170.google.com with SMTP id x12so12863694qts.7 for ; Sun, 07 Apr 2019 10:33:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:date:message-id; bh=cmyM2S/TuKEoe9zuvGKZQz4khHTaNUKNorlq759R/IE=; b=QADCGgSFaSjylGTwFdfpTGCjdlyfp2wkDDTYVdrg/LAoD6lSqBBZpGwsF9umJ+P1WZ YitG0th2clgSovGfTUoOSju7B43S1hagLtzXNp6BV3QWYQP3YmGRQeiPA2K3Z4woKM8a pWBuulFMsy5yRqYza2c5uZFuwXRE+qKk19zdNLuu4lbxyCTp6fhPkcK9Iys0iwp9qxOY RzyYlnPnxsRJAX8/nMpKId6bhaUu2bBREGv68m9XYl4CCHfZHGdI0uOd94X+tq4ZIhNE iRN+sSTwHpD4MLZQbIR/7JDOUgIPx60JOUO5etYfckOhFSfpaKfVU52IyMOfE/R7Vulk +lgQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWOdFgooE2c78WeWv6N3CGs8p25mPCbqKO/tPt1AXyapTg5CmQJ EDEH34EQknb+BDqJxT/fQ59YTU6SwLI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwBmN/A/SRizXdWMoUkRmgzjszFVzhrKDpPQgTVua8oKA2Em7ik6R/nu7pXRdgRdwmR+SWqRQ== X-Received: by 2002:a0c:b0a5:: with SMTP id o34mr19873269qvc.42.1554658394189; Sun, 07 Apr 2019 10:33:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stl.localdomain ([2601:18f:902:7700::2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w13sm17587254qtc.26.2019.04.07.10.33.12 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 07 Apr 2019 10:33:13 -0700 (PDT) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: David Levine In-Reply-To: my message of Mon, 18 Mar 2019 21:31:14 -0400 References: <12444.1552796081@desktop.ajb.soy> <5699.1552799501@turing-police> <3434-1552829333.793112@YoQ2.T-ez.G0D0> <22521.1552848925@turing-police> <20190317212920.BFBB46222D@pb-smtp21.pobox.com> <25744.1552860769@turing-police> <4706-1552869820.878492@jX8T.XM4C.B322> <5828.1552874657@turing-police> <7847-1552959074.225624@cocZ.V0NF.73aV> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2019 13:33:12 -0400 Message-ID: <25764-1554658392.035835@m1c-.GqSL.gmls> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.160.170 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] mhshow: invalid BASE64 encoding in -- X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2019 17:33:18 -0000 I just added a -checkbase64 switch to mhfixmsg(1): The -checkbase64 switch enables a check of the encoding validity in base64-encoded MIME parts. The check looks for a non-encoded text footer appended to a base64-encoded part. Per RFC 2045 =C2=A76.8, the occurrence of a "=3D" character signifies the end of base-64 encoded content. If none is found, a heuristic is used: specifically, two consecutive invalid base64 characters signify the beginning of a plain text footer. If a text footer is found and this switch is enabled, mhfixmsg separates the base64-encoded and non-encoded content and places them in a pair of subparts to a newly constructed multipart/mixed part. That multipart/mixed part replaces the original base64-encoded part in the MIME structure of the message. It takes care of the particular issue reported by Anthony. It is enabled = by default in mhfixmsg. I didn't modify the base64 decoder to conform to RFC 2045. David From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 04:20:14 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hI7hu-0004Pz-5w for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 04:20:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55731) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hHv8a-0000JQ-I4 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sat, 20 Apr 2019 14:54:57 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hHv8Z-0005Hj-LQ for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sat, 20 Apr 2019 14:54:56 -0400 Received: from mail.eskimo.com ([204.122.16.4]:39654) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hHv8Z-0005H7-GQ for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sat, 20 Apr 2019 14:54:55 -0400 Received: from eskimo.com (ftp.eskimo.com [204.122.16.6]) by mail.eskimo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63BED1410BD for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2019 11:54:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 173.48.14.107 (SquirrelMail authenticated user wilson) by eskimo.com with HTTP; Sat, 20 Apr 2019 11:54:52 -0700 Message-ID: <2aeea1b607cfd5fd67b6bd9ef8f10e7a.squirrel@eskimo.com> Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 11:54:52 -0700 From: wilson@eskimo.com To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.eskimo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 204.122.16.4 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 04:20:13 -0400 Subject: [nmh-workers] send fails X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 18:54:57 -0000 Hi, I've used nmh for years and love it. But I'm not an expert on its internals. This week I installed nmh 1.7.1. It's apparently working fine except that send fails with the message: What now? send -snoop Trying to connect to "localhost" ... Connecting to ::1:2525... Connection failed: Connection refused Connecting to 127.0.0.1:2525... Connection failed: Connection refused post: problem initializing server; [BHST] no servers availabl= e (use -snoop for details send: message not delivered to anyone Would someone please help me? I'd be happy to send copies of various dot files, etc. I talked to Kenh about earlier problems. He helped me a lot, but suggested for anything else I go to nmh-workers. Thanks for any ideas. Stewart Wilson wilson@eskimo.com prediction-dynamics.com From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 05:03:43 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hI8Nz-0001r2-3b for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 05:03:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48776) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hI8Nx-0001qw-4z for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 05:03:42 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hI8Nw-0002Go-89 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 05:03:41 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:43278) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hI8Nw-0002Di-4e for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 05:03:40 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FE921A2C03; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 05:03:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF0321FA3; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 10:03:37 +0100 (BST) To: Stewart Wilson cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org reply-to: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-reply-to: <2aeea1b607cfd5fd67b6bd9ef8f10e7a.squirrel@eskimo.com> References: <2aeea1b607cfd5fd67b6bd9ef8f10e7a.squirrel@eskimo.com> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 10:03:37 +0100 Message-Id: <20190421090337.5AF0321FA3@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] send fails X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 09:03:42 -0000 Hi Stewart, > This week I installed nmh 1.7.1. Do you know what version you were on before? Was it a 1.6? > Trying to connect to "localhost" ... > Connecting to ::1:2525... > Connection failed: Connection refused > Connecting to 127.0.0.1:2525... > Connection failed: Connection refused That means there is no program listening on port 2525 to accept the mail from nmh to start its journey. Do you have a local mail server, like Sendmail, Postfix, Qmail, or Exim, that you expect to be used? 2525 is an odd port; it's normally 25 or 587. 2525 suggests you're trying to work around some network-traffic filtering of port 25, or your server doesn't have the privilege to listen on port 25. See if you've any parameters being given to send(1) by your ~/.mh_profile with `mhparam send'. And examine your system's /etc/nmh/mts.conf; that's the default mts.conf file unless you override it with send's -mts option. > but suggested for anything else I go to nmh-workers. Yes, good idea. Keep replying to the list, and we'll keep CCing you in our replies. --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 07:49:26 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIAyM-0008Nm-63 for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 07:49:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43789) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIAyK-0008Ng-8J for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 07:49:25 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIAyJ-0007jM-CN for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 07:49:24 -0400 Received: from mail.eskimo.com ([204.122.16.4]:43008) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIAyJ-0007hn-2t for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 07:49:23 -0400 Received: from eskimo.com (ftp.eskimo.com [204.122.16.6]) by mail.eskimo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B7BE1441AA for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 04:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 173.48.14.107 (SquirrelMail authenticated user wilson) by eskimo.com with HTTP; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 04:49:21 -0700 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 04:49:21 -0700 From: wilson@eskimo.com To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.eskimo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 204.122.16.4 Subject: [nmh-workers] Ralph Corderoy I missed your message!! X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 11:49:25 -0000 Ralph, Thank you so much for answering my question about send failing. Would you kindly send it again if you can? It came through procmail to the "possible spam" list and, too quick, I erased it by mistake. I added your name to the white list. Best wishes and Happy Easter! Stewart Wilson From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 08:08:33 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIBGr-0002qi-2j for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 08:08:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46753) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIBGp-0002ob-3M for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 08:08:32 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIBGo-0003zm-9p for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 08:08:31 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:45794) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIBGo-0003zL-6I for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 08:08:30 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A9551A2BE5; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 08:08:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B0FD21FA7; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:08:28 +0100 (BST) To: Stewart Wilson cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org reply-to: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-reply-to: References: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:08:28 +0100 Message-Id: <20190421120828.9B0FD21FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] send fails X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:08:32 -0000 Hi Stewart, > Would you kindly send it again if you can? ... > https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers There's a copy in the archive of mailing-list emails: http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/nmh-workers/2019-04/msg00002.html --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 09:35:58 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hICdO-0006F6-VB for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 09:35:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58768) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hICdN-0006Ew-3Z for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 09:35:54 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hICdM-0005HS-4N for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 09:35:53 -0400 Received: from mail.eskimo.com ([204.122.16.4]:43328) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hICdL-0005GS-SG for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 09:35:52 -0400 Received: from eskimo.com (ftp.eskimo.com [204.122.16.6]) by mail.eskimo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE50A140894 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 06:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 173.48.14.107 (SquirrelMail authenticated user wilson) by eskimo.com with HTTP; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 06:35:49 -0700 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 06:35:49 -0700 From: wilson@eskimo.com To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary="----=_20190421063549_59301" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.eskimo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 204.122.16.4 Subject: [nmh-workers] Reply to Ralph Corderoy X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:35:54 -0000 ------=_20190421063549_59301 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ralph, The previous nmh was 1.4 I changed the port to 25 from 2525, but the connection there was also refused. I left it at 25. mhparam now shows: -port 25 -alias /home/wilson/.mh_aliases Sendmail is installed, but according to ps it is not running. Postfix, Qmail, and Exim are not installed. I'm attaching mts.conf. Also .mh_profile Thank you again for your help! Stewart ------=_20190421063549_59301 Content-Type: text/plain; name="mts.conf" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="mts.conf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable # nmh mail transport interface customization file. # # Check the mh-tailor(5) man page for descriptions of available options. # # The delivery method to use, which must be one of the following: # smtp: nmh opens a socket connection to the appropriate port # on the servers listed below and speaks SMTP to the # first one that responds. This is the default. # sendmail/smtp: nmh pipes messages directly to the sendmail program, # speaking SMTP. Can be abbreviated to "sendmail". # sendmail/pipe: nmh pipes messages directly to the sendmail program, # using the -t option so that addresses are retrieved # from the message. mts: smtp # Name that nmh considers `local'. If not set, nmh will # query the system for this value (gethostname, etc...). localname: prediction-dynamics.com # Default location of mail drops. If this option is # set, but empty, the user's home directory is used. mmdfldir: /var/mail # The name of the maildrop file in the directory where maildrops # are kept. If this is empty, the user's login name is used. mmdflfil: # # The locking algorithm to use on the spool file. Valid settings are: # # fcntl Locking using the fcntl() function # dot "Dot" locking using an external lock file # flock Locking using the flock() function (if supported by OS) # lockf Locking using the lockf() function (if supported by OS) # # Locking algorithms supported on this installation are: # # fcntl dot flock lockf # # The default spool locking configured on this system is fcntl; # change the line below to get a different value spoollocking: fcntl # Hardcoded POP server name (prevents inc'ing from local mail spool). #pophost: localhost # A SINGLE SMTP server to use when using SMTP support servers: mail.eskimo.com ------=_20190421063549_59301 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=".mh_profile" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=".mh_profile" UGF0aDogTWFpbApDdXJyZW50LWZvbGRlcjogaW5ib3gKRHJhZnQtZm9sZGVyOiBvdXRib3gKRWRp dG9yOiAvdXNyL2Jpbi92aW0KU2lnbmF0dXJlOiBTdGV3YXJ0IFdpbHNvbgphbGk6IC1hbGlhcyAv aG9tZS93aWxzb24vLm1oX2FsaWFzZXMKc2VuZDogLXBvcnQgMjUgLWFsaWFzIC9ob21lL3dpbHNv bi8ubWhfYWxpYXNlcyAKd2hvbTogLWFsaWFzIC9ob21lL3dpbHNvbi8ubWhfYWxpYXNlcwp1bnNl ZW4tc2VxdWVuY2U6IHVuc2VlbgptaHNob3ctc3VmZml4LXRleHQvcGxhaW46IC5vdXRwdXQKbWhz aG93LXN1ZmZpeC1pbWFnZS9qcGVnOiAuanBnCm1oc2hvdy1zdWZmaXgtYXBwbGljYXRpb24vbXN3 b3JkOiAuZG9jCm1oc2hvdy1zdWZmaXgtYXBwbGljYXRpb24vcGRmOiAucGRmCm1oc2hvdy1zdWZm aXgtYXBwbGljYXRpb24vUG9zdFNjcmlwdDogcHMKbWhzaG93LXN1ZmZpeC1hcHBsaWNhdGlvbi92 bmQubXMtZXhjZWw6IC54bHMKbWhzaG93LXN1ZmZpeC1hcHBsaWNhdGlvbi92bmQubXMtcG93ZXJw b2ludDogLnBwdAptaHNob3ctc3VmZml4LWFwcGxpY2F0aW9uL3gtdGFyOiAudGFyCm1oc2hvdy1z dWZmaXgtYXBwbGljYXRpb24veC1jb21wcmVzc2VkLXRhcjogLnRnego= ------=_20190421063549_59301-- From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 10:19:10 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIDJG-0004rc-0V for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 10:19:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35276) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIDJD-0004rU-7A for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 10:19:08 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIDJA-0006jx-F9 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 10:19:07 -0400 Received: from mail.eskimo.com ([204.122.16.4]:43344) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIDJA-0006ii-0O for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 10:19:04 -0400 Received: from eskimo.com (ftp.eskimo.com [204.122.16.6]) by mail.eskimo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C48C140894 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 07:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 173.48.14.107 (SquirrelMail authenticated user wilson) by eskimo.com with HTTP; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 07:19:02 -0700 Message-ID: <7cf0ec99634dbb76a46008b011b58621.squirrel@eskimo.com> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 07:19:02 -0700 From: wilson@eskimo.com To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary="----=_20190421071902_76992" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.eskimo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 204.122.16.4 Subject: [nmh-workers] Send fails X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 14:19:08 -0000 ------=_20190421071902_76992 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ralph, The previous nmh was 1.4 I changed the port to 25 from 2525, but the connection there was also refused. I left it at 25. mhparam now shows: -port 25 -alias /home/wilson/.mh_aliases Sendmail is installed, but according to ps it is not running. Postfix, Qmail, and Exim are not installed. I'm attaching mts.conf. Also .mh_profile Thank you again for your help! Stewart P.S. Sorry if I am not responding correctly. You said reply to the list and I think I'm doing that. :) Sending is complicated since send doesn't work and this is from Eskimo. ------=_20190421071902_76992 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=".mh_profile" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=".mh_profile" UGF0aDogTWFpbApDdXJyZW50LWZvbGRlcjogaW5ib3gKRHJhZnQtZm9sZGVyOiBvdXRib3gKRWRp dG9yOiAvdXNyL2Jpbi92aW0KU2lnbmF0dXJlOiBTdGV3YXJ0IFdpbHNvbgphbGk6IC1hbGlhcyAv aG9tZS93aWxzb24vLm1oX2FsaWFzZXMKc2VuZDogLXBvcnQgMjUgLWFsaWFzIC9ob21lL3dpbHNv bi8ubWhfYWxpYXNlcyAKd2hvbTogLWFsaWFzIC9ob21lL3dpbHNvbi8ubWhfYWxpYXNlcwp1bnNl ZW4tc2VxdWVuY2U6IHVuc2VlbgptaHNob3ctc3VmZml4LXRleHQvcGxhaW46IC5vdXRwdXQKbWhz aG93LXN1ZmZpeC1pbWFnZS9qcGVnOiAuanBnCm1oc2hvdy1zdWZmaXgtYXBwbGljYXRpb24vbXN3 b3JkOiAuZG9jCm1oc2hvdy1zdWZmaXgtYXBwbGljYXRpb24vcGRmOiAucGRmCm1oc2hvdy1zdWZm aXgtYXBwbGljYXRpb24vUG9zdFNjcmlwdDogcHMKbWhzaG93LXN1ZmZpeC1hcHBsaWNhdGlvbi92 bmQubXMtZXhjZWw6IC54bHMKbWhzaG93LXN1ZmZpeC1hcHBsaWNhdGlvbi92bmQubXMtcG93ZXJw b2ludDogLnBwdAptaHNob3ctc3VmZml4LWFwcGxpY2F0aW9uL3gtdGFyOiAudGFyCm1oc2hvdy1z dWZmaXgtYXBwbGljYXRpb24veC1jb21wcmVzc2VkLXRhcjogLnRnego= ------=_20190421071902_76992 Content-Type: text/plain; name="mts.conf" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="mts.conf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable # nmh mail transport interface customization file. # # Check the mh-tailor(5) man page for descriptions of available options. # # The delivery method to use, which must be one of the following: # smtp: nmh opens a socket connection to the appropriate port # on the servers listed below and speaks SMTP to the # first one that responds. This is the default. # sendmail/smtp: nmh pipes messages directly to the sendmail program, # speaking SMTP. Can be abbreviated to "sendmail". # sendmail/pipe: nmh pipes messages directly to the sendmail program, # using the -t option so that addresses are retrieved # from the message. mts: smtp # Name that nmh considers `local'. If not set, nmh will # query the system for this value (gethostname, etc...). localname: prediction-dynamics.com # Default location of mail drops. If this option is # set, but empty, the user's home directory is used. mmdfldir: /var/mail # The name of the maildrop file in the directory where maildrops # are kept. If this is empty, the user's login name is used. mmdflfil: # # The locking algorithm to use on the spool file. Valid settings are: # # fcntl Locking using the fcntl() function # dot "Dot" locking using an external lock file # flock Locking using the flock() function (if supported by OS) # lockf Locking using the lockf() function (if supported by OS) # # Locking algorithms supported on this installation are: # # fcntl dot flock lockf # # The default spool locking configured on this system is fcntl; # change the line below to get a different value spoollocking: fcntl # Hardcoded POP server name (prevents inc'ing from local mail spool). #pophost: localhost # A SINGLE SMTP server to use when using SMTP support servers: mail.eskimo.com ------=_20190421071902_76992-- From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 10:35:27 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIDZ1-0007ys-Nq for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 10:35:27 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38528) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIDYz-0007yR-6Q for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 10:35:26 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIDYy-0003GB-3p for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 10:35:25 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:47610) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIDYy-0003Fk-07 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 10:35:24 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 199BB1A2CCF; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 10:35:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59FC621FA7; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 15:35:22 +0100 (BST) To: Stewart Wilson cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org reply-to: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-reply-to: References: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 15:35:22 +0100 Message-Id: <20190421143522.59FC621FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Reply to Ralph Corderoy X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 14:35:26 -0000 Hi Stewart, > The previous nmh was 1.4 That's a big jump. If you haven't already seen it, then the list of per-release changes in NEWS could be useful. http://git.savannah.nongnu.org/cgit/nmh.git/tree/NEWS > I changed the port to 25 from 2525, but the connection there was also > refused. I left it at 25. mhparam now shows: > -port 25 -alias /home/wilson/.mh_aliases > I'm attaching mts.conf. Where did you find that? Was it the same directory that `mhparam etcdir' shows? > mts: smtp ... > servers: mail.eskimo.com That suggests to me that nmh will try to talk SMTP to mail.eskimo.com to send the email, > Also .mh_profile ... > send: -port 25 -alias /home/wilson/.mh_aliases=20 and that it will connect on port 25, the standard SMTP port. I can connect from here. $ nc mail.eskimo.com 25 220 mail.eskimo.com ESMTP Postfix quit 221 2.0.0 Bye ^D $ But your original email to the list showed attempts to connect to localhost. What now? send -snoop Trying to connect to "localhost" ... Connecting to ::1:2525... Connection failed: Connection refused Connecting to 127.0.0.1:2525... Connection failed: Connection refused so I'm thinking mts.conf isn't being found. At the `What now?' prompt, try send -snoop -mts smtp -server mail.eskimo.com -port 25 and we'll see if that gets further. --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 10:36:18 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIDZq-0008I2-0U for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 10:36:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38644) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIDZn-0008HW-E6 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 10:36:16 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIDZm-0003nZ-9k for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 10:36:15 -0400 Received: from mail.eskimo.com ([204.122.16.4]:43380) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIDZm-0003mp-23 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 10:36:14 -0400 Received: from eskimo.com (ftp.eskimo.com [204.122.16.6]) by mail.eskimo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CBF9140894 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 07:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 173.48.14.107 (SquirrelMail authenticated user wilson) by eskimo.com with HTTP; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 07:36:12 -0700 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 07:36:12 -0700 From: wilson@eskimo.com To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary="----=_20190421073612_38089" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.eskimo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 204.122.16.4 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] [nmh-workders] send fails X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 14:36:16 -0000 ------=_20190421073612_38089 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stewart, > This week I installed nmh 1.7.1. Do you know what version you were on before? Was it a 1.6? > Trying to connect to "localhost" ... > Connecting to ::1:2525... > Connection failed: Connection refused > Connecting to 127.0.0.1:2525... > Connection failed: Connection refused That means there is no program listening on port 2525 to accept the mail from nmh to start its journey. Do you have a local mail server, like Sendmail, Postfix, Qmail, or Exim, that you expect to be used? 2525 is an odd port; it's normally 25 or 587. 2525 suggests you're trying to work around some network-traffic filtering of port 25, or your server doesn't have the privilege to listen on port 25. See if you've any parameters being given to send(1) by your ~/.mh_profile with `mhparam send'. And examine your system's /etc/nmh/mts.conf; that's the default mts.conf file unless you override it with send's -mts option. > but suggested for anything else I go to nmh-workers. Yes, good idea. Keep replying to the list, and we'll keep CCing you in our replies. --=20 Cheers, Ralph. Ralph, The previous nmh was 1.4 I changed the port to 25 from 2525, but the connection there was also refused. I left it at 25. mhparam now shows: -port 25 -alias /home/wilson/.mh_aliases Sendmail is installed, but according to ps it is not running. Postfix, Qmail, and Exim are not installed. I'm attaching mts.conf. Also .mh_profile Thank you again for your help! Stewart P.S. Sorry if I am not responding correctly. You said reply to the list and I think I'm doing that. :) Sending is complicated since send doesn't work and this is from Eskimo. ------=_20190421073612_38089 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=".mh_profile" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=".mh_profile" UGF0aDogTWFpbApDdXJyZW50LWZvbGRlcjogaW5ib3gKRHJhZnQtZm9sZGVyOiBvdXRib3gKRWRp dG9yOiAvdXNyL2Jpbi92aW0KU2lnbmF0dXJlOiBTdGV3YXJ0IFdpbHNvbgphbGk6IC1hbGlhcyAv aG9tZS93aWxzb24vLm1oX2FsaWFzZXMKc2VuZDogLXBvcnQgMjUgLWFsaWFzIC9ob21lL3dpbHNv bi8ubWhfYWxpYXNlcyAKd2hvbTogLWFsaWFzIC9ob21lL3dpbHNvbi8ubWhfYWxpYXNlcwp1bnNl ZW4tc2VxdWVuY2U6IHVuc2VlbgptaHNob3ctc3VmZml4LXRleHQvcGxhaW46IC5vdXRwdXQKbWhz aG93LXN1ZmZpeC1pbWFnZS9qcGVnOiAuanBnCm1oc2hvdy1zdWZmaXgtYXBwbGljYXRpb24vbXN3 b3JkOiAuZG9jCm1oc2hvdy1zdWZmaXgtYXBwbGljYXRpb24vcGRmOiAucGRmCm1oc2hvdy1zdWZm aXgtYXBwbGljYXRpb24vUG9zdFNjcmlwdDogcHMKbWhzaG93LXN1ZmZpeC1hcHBsaWNhdGlvbi92 bmQubXMtZXhjZWw6IC54bHMKbWhzaG93LXN1ZmZpeC1hcHBsaWNhdGlvbi92bmQubXMtcG93ZXJw b2ludDogLnBwdAptaHNob3ctc3VmZml4LWFwcGxpY2F0aW9uL3gtdGFyOiAudGFyCm1oc2hvdy1z dWZmaXgtYXBwbGljYXRpb24veC1jb21wcmVzc2VkLXRhcjogLnRnego= ------=_20190421073612_38089 Content-Type: text/plain; name="mts.conf" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="mts.conf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable # nmh mail transport interface customization file. # # Check the mh-tailor(5) man page for descriptions of available options. # # The delivery method to use, which must be one of the following: # smtp: nmh opens a socket connection to the appropriate port # on the servers listed below and speaks SMTP to the # first one that responds. This is the default. # sendmail/smtp: nmh pipes messages directly to the sendmail program, # speaking SMTP. Can be abbreviated to "sendmail". # sendmail/pipe: nmh pipes messages directly to the sendmail program, # using the -t option so that addresses are retrieved # from the message. mts: smtp # Name that nmh considers `local'. If not set, nmh will # query the system for this value (gethostname, etc...). localname: prediction-dynamics.com # Default location of mail drops. If this option is # set, but empty, the user's home directory is used. mmdfldir: /var/mail # The name of the maildrop file in the directory where maildrops # are kept. If this is empty, the user's login name is used. mmdflfil: # # The locking algorithm to use on the spool file. Valid settings are: # # fcntl Locking using the fcntl() function # dot "Dot" locking using an external lock file # flock Locking using the flock() function (if supported by OS) # lockf Locking using the lockf() function (if supported by OS) # # Locking algorithms supported on this installation are: # # fcntl dot flock lockf # # The default spool locking configured on this system is fcntl; # change the line below to get a different value spoollocking: fcntl # Hardcoded POP server name (prevents inc'ing from local mail spool). #pophost: localhost # A SINGLE SMTP server to use when using SMTP support servers: mail.eskimo.com ------=_20190421073612_38089-- From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 11:08:41 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIE5B-0003yk-Fq for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 11:08:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42560) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIE58-0003t5-Ch for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 11:08:39 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIE1T-0006rq-Qq for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 11:04:53 -0400 Received: from mail.eskimo.com ([204.122.16.4]:43718) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIE1R-0006pQ-Su for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 11:04:51 -0400 Received: from eskimo.com (ftp.eskimo.com [204.122.16.6]) by mail.eskimo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C022E14462F for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 08:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 173.48.14.107 (SquirrelMail authenticated user wilson) by eskimo.com with HTTP; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 08:04:47 -0700 Message-ID: <852b882838c8b14dfcca2535ae04fdbe.squirrel@eskimo.com> In-Reply-To: <20190421143522.59FC621FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> References: <20190421143522.59FC621FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 08:04:47 -0700 From: wilson@eskimo.com To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.eskimo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 204.122.16.4 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Reply to Ralph Corderoy X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 15:08:39 -0000 Ralph, New data! I did your optioned send below, except I used -port 2525 and it went! > send -snoop -mts smtp -server mail.eskimo.com -port 2525 I sent to myself and it came around. So what is the difference between send with no options -- which still doesn't work, and send optioned as above??? Cheers, Stewart P.S. here is the trace from the optioned send: What now? send -snoop -mts smtp -server mail.eskimo.com -port 2525 Trying to connect to "mail.eskimo.com" ... Connecting to 204.122.16.4:2525... <=3D 220 mail.eskimo.com ESMTP Postfix =3D> EHLO localhost <=3D 250-mail.eskimo.com <=3D 250-PIPELINING <=3D 250-SIZE 50000000 <=3D 250-ETRN <=3D 250-STARTTLS <=3D 250-AUTH PLAIN LOGIN <=3D 250-AUTH=3DPLAIN LOGIN <=3D 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES <=3D 250-8BITMIME <=3D 250 DSN =3D> MAIL FROM: <=3D 250 2.1.0 Ok =3D> RCPT TO: <=3D 250 2.1.5 Ok =3D> DATA <=3D 354 End data with . =3D> . <=3D 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 2ECD314461D =3D> QUIT <=3D 221 2.0.0 Bye sw% On Sun, April 21, 2019 7:35 am, Ralph Corderoy wrote: > Hi Stewart, > > >> The previous nmh was 1.4 >> > > That's a big jump. If you haven't already seen it, then the list of > per-release changes in NEWS could be useful. > http://git.savannah.nongnu.org/cgit/nmh.git/tree/NEWS > > >> I changed the port to 25 from 2525, but the connection there was also >> refused. I left it at 25. mhparam now shows: -port 25 -alias >> /home/wilson/.mh_aliases >> > >> I'm attaching mts.conf. >> > > Where did you find that? > Was it the same directory that `mhparam etcdir' shows? > > >> mts: smtp >> > ... > >> servers: mail.eskimo.com >> > > That suggests to me that nmh will try to talk SMTP to mail.eskimo.com t= o > send the email, > >> Also .mh_profile >> > ... > >> send: -port 25 -alias /home/wilson/.mh_aliases >> > > and that it will connect on port 25, the standard SMTP port. I can > connect from here. > > $ nc mail.eskimo.com 25 > 220 mail.eskimo.com ESMTP Postfix > quit 221 2.0.0 Bye > ^D > $ > > > But your original email to the list showed attempts to connect to > localhost. > > What now? send -snoop > > > Trying to connect to "localhost" ... > Connecting to ::1:2525... > Connection failed: Connection refused > Connecting to 127.0.0.1:2525... > Connection failed: Connection refused > > > so I'm thinking mts.conf isn't being found. > > At the `What now?' prompt, try > > > send -snoop -mts smtp -server mail.eskimo.com -port 25 > > and we'll see if that gets further. > > -- > Cheers, Ralph. > > From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 11:09:15 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIE5j-0004M5-DW for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 11:09:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42745) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIE5f-000460-FS for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 11:09:12 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIDrC-0007us-0i for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 10:54:15 -0400 Received: from mail.eskimo.com ([204.122.16.4]:43418) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIDrB-0007tH-Rm for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 10:54:13 -0400 Received: from eskimo.com (ftp.eskimo.com [204.122.16.6]) by mail.eskimo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15CDA140894 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 07:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 173.48.14.107 (SquirrelMail authenticated user wilson) by eskimo.com with HTTP; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 07:54:12 -0700 Message-ID: <33c2de15f226d34ee6204c93389c8137.squirrel@eskimo.com> In-Reply-To: <20190421143522.59FC621FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> References: <20190421143522.59FC621FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 07:54:12 -0700 From: wilson@eskimo.com To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.eskimo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 204.122.16.4 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] send fails X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 15:09:12 -0000 Ralph, Here's the result of send -snoop -mts smtp -server mail.eskimo.com -port 25 Trying to connect to "mail.eskimo.com" ... Connecting to 204.122.16.4:25... Connection failed: Connection timed out post: problem initializing server; [BHST] Connection to "mail.eskimo.com" failed: Connection timed out send: message not delivered to anyone > Was it the same directory that `mhparam etcdir' shows? Yes, /etc/nmh. But I edited it as shown in the mts.conf that I attached in the last message. Sorry I'm so slow. Now I'm just writing and replying on Eskimo's site. Also, nmh is great but very complicated. Lisp is much easier!! :) Looks like we are getting farther though, re the above error message. Please tell me your interpretation. Best, Stewart On Sun, April 21, 2019 7:35 am, Ralph Corderoy wrote: > Hi Stewart, > > >> The previous nmh was 1.4 >> > > That's a big jump. If you haven't already seen it, then the list of > per-release changes in NEWS could be useful. > http://git.savannah.nongnu.org/cgit/nmh.git/tree/NEWS > > >> I changed the port to 25 from 2525, but the connection there was also >> refused. I left it at 25. mhparam now shows: -port 25 -alias >> /home/wilson/.mh_aliases >> > >> I'm attaching mts.conf. >> > > Where did you find that? > Was it the same directory that `mhparam etcdir' shows? > > >> mts: smtp >> > ... > >> servers: mail.eskimo.com >> > > That suggests to me that nmh will try to talk SMTP to mail.eskimo.com t= o > send the email, > >> Also .mh_profile >> > ... > >> send: -port 25 -alias /home/wilson/.mh_aliases >> > > and that it will connect on port 25, the standard SMTP port. I can > connect from here. > > $ nc mail.eskimo.com 25 > 220 mail.eskimo.com ESMTP Postfix > quit 221 2.0.0 Bye > ^D > $ > > > But your original email to the list showed attempts to connect to > localhost. > > What now? send -snoop > > > Trying to connect to "localhost" ... > Connecting to ::1:2525... > Connection failed: Connection refused > Connecting to 127.0.0.1:2525... > Connection failed: Connection refused > > > so I'm thinking mts.conf isn't being found. > > At the `What now?' prompt, try > > > send -snoop -mts smtp -server mail.eskimo.com -port 25 > > and we'll see if that gets further. > > -- > Cheers, Ralph. > > From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 11:31:07 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIEQt-0008WK-0d for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 11:31:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45912) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIEQq-0008WE-Ux for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 11:31:05 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIEQp-0004vz-3S for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 11:31:04 -0400 Received: from mail.eskimo.com ([204.122.16.4]:44042) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIEQn-0004uz-P5 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 11:31:02 -0400 Received: from eskimo.com (ftp.eskimo.com [204.122.16.6]) by mail.eskimo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACD79144623 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 08:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 173.48.14.107 (SquirrelMail authenticated user wilson) by eskimo.com with HTTP; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 08:30:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3e8fcbe7bd4e6ef69e141f6a39c5ad46.squirrel@eskimo.com> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 08:30:59 -0700 From: wilson@eskimo.com To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.eskimo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 204.122.16.4 Subject: [nmh-workers] send fails X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 15:31:05 -0000 Ralph, In 2010 I had a problem sending and now remember that it was solved by moving from port 25 to port 2525, due to some policy of Verizon's that made it not work on 25. I think the mail interaction is in the nmh archives. It seems that the present problem has two parts: 1) Sending to port 25 --- wrong, should be 2525 2) Something else, which accounts for the difference between plain send -snoop and send -snoop -mts smtp -server mail.eskimo.com -port 2525 Thanks again for your help. I see you are in England. Best, Stewart From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 12:13:51 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIF6E-0006wR-Uj for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:13:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50738) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIF6C-0006f8-1Z for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:13:48 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIEyp-0004R4-UA for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:06:12 -0400 Received: from mail.eskimo.com ([204.122.16.4]:44264) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIEyp-0004QS-LV for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:06:11 -0400 Received: from eskimo.com (ftp.eskimo.com [204.122.16.6]) by mail.eskimo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C860E140894 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 09:06:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 173.48.14.107 (SquirrelMail authenticated user wilson) by eskimo.com with HTTP; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 09:06:09 -0700 Message-ID: <3e8742b002f261dd5975c441f951bf23.squirrel@eskimo.com> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 09:06:09 -0700 From: wilson@eskimo.com To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.eskimo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 204.122.16.4 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] send fails X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 16:13:49 -0000 Dear Ralph, I tried the optioned send, each time leaving out one of the options. It only failed when I left out -server mail.eskimo.com So, hoping to be lucky, I added that option to .mh_profile, thus: mhparam send: -port 2525 -alias /home/wilson/.mh_aliases -server mail.eskimo.com Now send -snoop gives Trying to connect to "mail.eskimo.com" ... Connecting to 204.122.16.4:2525... <=3D 220 mail.eskimo.com ESMTP Postfix =3D> EHLO localhost <=3D 250-mail.eskimo.com <=3D 250-PIPELINING <=3D 250-SIZE 50000000 <=3D 250-ETRN <=3D 250-STARTTLS <=3D 250-AUTH PLAIN LOGIN <=3D 250-AUTH=3DPLAIN LOGIN <=3D 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES <=3D 250-8BITMIME <=3D 250 DSN =3D> MAIL FROM: <=3D 250 2.1.0 Ok =3D> RCPT TO: <=3D 250 2.1.5 Ok =3D> DATA <=3D 354 End data with . =3D> . <=3D 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 51F00140894 =3D> QUIT <=3D 221 2.0.0 Bye sw% This is called a successful hack. But what is really going on? You proposed that mts.conf was not being read. Could that still be the case? Stewart From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 12:13:51 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIF6F-0006we-6N for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:13:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50820) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIF6C-0006tP-2E for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:13:49 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIEyd-0004Ne-Qf for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:06:00 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:48882) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIEyd-0004NW-NB for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:05:59 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9C451A27E1; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:05:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06C6421FA7; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 17:05:58 +0100 (BST) To: Stewart Wilson cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org reply-to: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-reply-to: <852b882838c8b14dfcca2535ae04fdbe.squirrel@eskimo.com> References: <20190421143522.59FC621FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <852b882838c8b14dfcca2535ae04fdbe.squirrel@eskimo.com> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 17:05:58 +0100 Message-Id: <20190421160558.06C6421FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Reply to Ralph Corderoy X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 16:13:49 -0000 Hi Stewart, > I did your optioned send below, except I used -port 2525 and it went! ... > What now? send -snoop -mts smtp -server mail.eskimo.com -port 2525 > Trying to connect to "mail.eskimo.com" ... > Connecting to 204.122.16.4:2525... > <=3D 220 mail.eskimo.com ESMTP Postfix > <=3D 250-AUTH PLAIN LOGIN > <=3D 250-AUTH=3DPLAIN LOGIN ... > <=3D 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 2ECD314461D Great. So you need to edit your ~/.mh_profile to change send's -port back to 2525, as it was when you started. You mentioned Verizon being a problem in the past, and it looks like it still it, blocking your port 25 connection to Eskimo. https://www.eskimo.com/support/mail/mail-settings/ says they support 2525 to workaround this. Once you've done that, you should find a plain send -snoop fails because it tries to connect to localhost's port 2525, but a send -snoop -server mail.eskimo.com works. If so, then /etc/nmh/mts.conf's `servers' entry isn't being obeyed. Either it isn't being read, or its getting trumped by something else. Does `env | grep MTS' show anything? There are two environment variables, MHMTSCONF and MHMTSUSERCONF, that can alter whence the mts.conf settings are gathered. --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 12:26:20 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIFIK-0001Hc-T4 for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:26:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56231) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIFII-0001HT-KH for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:26:19 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIFIH-0008PK-Hy for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:26:18 -0400 Received: from mail.eskimo.com ([204.122.16.4]:44306) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIFIH-0008OO-Bl for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:26:17 -0400 Received: from eskimo.com (ftp.eskimo.com [204.122.16.6]) by mail.eskimo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9150C140894 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 09:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 173.48.14.107 (SquirrelMail authenticated user wilson) by eskimo.com with HTTP; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 09:26:15 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20190421160558.06C6421FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> References: <20190421143522.59FC621FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <852b882838c8b14dfcca2535ae04fdbe.squirrel@eskimo.com> <20190421160558.06C6421FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 09:26:15 -0700 From: wilson@eskimo.com To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.eskimo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 204.122.16.4 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Reply to Ralph Corderoy X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 16:26:19 -0000 Ah, great minds do settle into the same groove. :)) as you must have noted from my last message. env | grep MTS returns nothing, under either wilson or root. Oh oh, I'm embarrassed. /etc/nmh/mts.conf, owned by root, has mod 600. I changed it to 644, and removed the -server option from the send line in .mh_profile-----and send works. My mistake basically was after originally editing mts.conf as su I didn't change the permissions so wilson could read it. Please forgive me for overlooking that. I am very grateful for your help (may hope to have it again). Stewart On Sun, April 21, 2019 9:05 am, Ralph Corderoy wrote: > Hi Stewart, > > >> I did your optioned send below, except I used -port 2525 and it went! >> > ... > >> What now? send -snoop -mts smtp -server mail.eskimo.com -port 2525 >> Trying to connect to "mail.eskimo.com" ... >> Connecting to 204.122.16.4:2525... >> <=3D 220 mail.eskimo.com ESMTP Postfix >> <=3D 250-AUTH PLAIN LOGIN >> <=3D 250-AUTH=3DPLAIN LOGIN >> > ... > >> <=3D 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 2ECD314461D >> > > Great. So you need to edit your ~/.mh_profile to change send's -port > back to 2525, as it was when you started. You mentioned Verizon being = a > problem in the past, and it looks like it still it, blocking your port = 25 > connection to Eskimo. https://www.eskimo.com/support/mail/mail-settings= / > says they support 2525 to workaround this. > > > Once you've done that, you should find a plain > > > send -snoop > > fails because it tries to connect to localhost's port 2525, but a > > send -snoop -server mail.eskimo.com > > works. If so, then /etc/nmh/mts.conf's `servers' entry isn't being > obeyed. Either it isn't being read, or its getting trumped by somethin= g > else. > > Does `env | grep MTS' show anything? There are two environment > variables, MHMTSCONF and MHMTSUSERCONF, that can alter whence the mts.c= onf > settings are gathered. > > -- > Cheers, Ralph. > > From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 12:28:33 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIFKT-0001TS-6W for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:28:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56608) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIFKQ-0001RI-Ek for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:28:31 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIFKP-0001KN-Kb for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:28:30 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:49304) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIFKP-0001K2-HC for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:28:29 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B314C1A2842; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:28:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1577921FA7; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 17:28:28 +0100 (BST) To: Stewart Wilson cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org reply-to: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-reply-to: <3e8742b002f261dd5975c441f951bf23.squirrel@eskimo.com> References: <3e8742b002f261dd5975c441f951bf23.squirrel@eskimo.com> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 17:28:28 +0100 Message-Id: <20190421162828.1577921FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] send fails X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 16:28:31 -0000 Hi Stewart, > send: -port 2525 -alias /home/wilson/.mh_aliases -server mail.eskimo.co= m Yes, that would work, though only for you and not any other users. > You proposed that mts.conf was not being read. Could that still be > the case? Yes, and it would mean other mts.conf settings you've altered may also be being missed. Did that env(1) pipeline I suggest give any output? Are you running Linux? It provides some programs I know that might help diagnose the problem. --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 12:35:44 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIFRP-0002ba-Uc for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:35:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58048) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIFRN-0002b7-ED for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:35:42 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIFRM-0005Pc-AM for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:35:41 -0400 Received: from omr1.cc.ipv6.vt.edu ([2607:b400:92:8300:0:c6:2117:b0e]:45718 helo=omr1.cc.vt.edu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIFRM-0005Ki-5v for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:35:40 -0400 Received: from mr1.cc.vt.edu (mail.ipv6.vt.edu [IPv6:2607:b400:92:9:0:9d:8fcb:4116]) by omr1.cc.vt.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x3LGZUDS011916 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:35:30 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f200.google.com (mail-qt1-f200.google.com [209.85.160.200]) by mr1.cc.vt.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id x3LGZOIJ014730 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:35:30 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f200.google.com with SMTP id n1so9620915qte.12 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 09:35:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:date:message-id; bh=Jn/412VgkMmd+kHfGRzYo4c2+wlk1y6Cp0KbSILusC8=; b=AEpggEPBSs8qQIg7m3sL0Hq4BTSPPGKs0oUy/9a2Ur1euDTgOn2WGE4EwGsGVC/UYv 7dGk/NqHz2ugY9EywmrHA31Bym5dcLcsMVHpaBLyohHYQZSu/yikieawsZpYvVHxTLik 0Pp2wNb9ZiRw4C/GYF78FRpNPry0d0ZCKgBRQuo7dEMiNlR1MA4qTDvSfQHmfDL6gfpd lVE1BaE6nAKkN9KwaIe974qFaAWKrQP86DiozR8Rh/7FE92rlndpxLpw4llS7dIh8J4F 9lZO5QQFAejAZtLGOg51eUnskRnh2gnzkRQo7RAdLaLbLEQKTth0oik61O5ebK8X+oze hi1g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWMIBvkWDl4uFy2TnBzGdA0ogqck6nTMuEKXJqNs4rf78GS5e2G 2hlCPXomF+DKe2siOj1o8+9Xd3SnhlfXpNM1XKHUVN2IINoPJuKXCMFAG+fMClteaQdcDMBWFUj Rpujl86mbrFkOzwR+7CoMOYGbEwp0OvWFoLhBHGomrdLdrTqBdTRaoUiBPDwxBTCXFo0OlT8Ivb kiQxWKKn3j X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3767:: with SMTP id p36mr11770875qtb.280.1555864524592; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 09:35:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxpJTnRP7q/+nvGV9h8Rve1sK8NNX6GQAqXxYXd9FZK0DSHKaw3rENvRYGwPxh/xP20eqhYYw== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3767:: with SMTP id p36mr11770863qtb.280.1555864524350; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 09:35:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from turing-police ([2601:5c0:c001:4341::1ae]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k89sm5752092qte.33.2019.04.21.09.35.22 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 21 Apr 2019 09:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Valdis Kletnieks From: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" X-Google-Original-From: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.7+dev To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org cc: Stewart Wilson In-reply-to: <20190421160558.06C6421FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> References: <20190421143522.59FC621FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <852b882838c8b14dfcca2535ae04fdbe.squirrel@eskimo.com> <20190421160558.06C6421FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:35:22 -0400 Message-ID: <15335.1555864522@turing-police> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 2607:b400:92:8300:0:c6:2117:b0e Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Reply to Ralph Corderoy X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 16:35:42 -0000 On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 17:05:58 +0100, Ralph Corderoy said: > works. If so, then /etc/nmh/mts.conf's `servers' entry isn't being > obeyed. Either it isn't being read, or its getting trumped by something > else. I wonder if the file got installed with wrong permissions? I've seen installers screw the pooch because root's default umask was 077, and I'm insufficiently caffeinated to suss out what nmh does. This works for me: 12:24:12 0 [~] ls -l /usr/local/etc/nmh/mts.conf -rw-r--r--. 1 root root 1778 Feb 13 14:52 /usr/local/etc/nmh/mts.conf 12:24:15 0 [~] egrep -v '^$|^#' /usr/local/etc/nmh/mts.conf mts: smtp mmdfldir: /var/mail mmdflfil: servers: localhost 12:24:36 0 [~] grep send .mh_profile send: -nomime -msgid -server smtp.gmail.com -port 587 -tls -sasl -user valdis@vt.edu (I never added the proper server name to mts.conf because it was bouncing all over the place, partly due to hysterical raisins, while my employer was first drinking the Google kook-aid.) From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 12:41:44 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIFXE-0003Uh-HV for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:41:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58953) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIFXB-0003UO-On for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:41:42 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIFXA-0000i6-Qj for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:41:41 -0400 Received: from mail.eskimo.com ([204.122.16.4]:44354) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIFXA-0000hO-L3 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:41:40 -0400 Received: from eskimo.com (ftp.eskimo.com [204.122.16.6]) by mail.eskimo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A10DE140894 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 09:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 173.48.14.107 (SquirrelMail authenticated user wilson) by eskimo.com with HTTP; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 09:41:38 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <15335.1555864522@turing-police> References: <20190421143522.59FC621FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <852b882838c8b14dfcca2535ae04fdbe.squirrel@eskimo.com> <20190421160558.06C6421FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <15335.1555864522@turing-police> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 09:41:38 -0700 From: wilson@eskimo.com To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.eskimo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 204.122.16.4 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Reply to Ralph Corderoy X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 16:41:42 -0000 Clearly another great mind! See my last message. Thanks for your help. Stewart On Sun, April 21, 2019 9:35 am, Valdis Kl=C4=93tnieks wrote: > On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 17:05:58 +0100, Ralph Corderoy said: > >> works. If so, then /etc/nmh/mts.conf's `servers' entry isn't being >> obeyed. Either it isn't being read, or its getting trumped by >> something else. > > I wonder if the file got installed with wrong permissions? I've seen > installers screw the pooch because root's default umask was 077, and I'= m > insufficiently caffeinated to suss out what nmh does. > > This works for me: > > > 12:24:12 0 [~] ls -l /usr/local/etc/nmh/mts.conf > -rw-r--r--. 1 root root 1778 Feb 13 14:52 /usr/local/etc/nmh/mts.conf > 12:24:15 0 [~] egrep -v '^$|^#' /usr/local/etc/nmh/mts.conf > mts: smtp > mmdfldir: /var/mail > mmdflfil: > servers: localhost > 12:24:36 0 [~] grep send .mh_profile > send: -nomime -msgid -server smtp.gmail.com -port 587 -tls -sasl -user > valdis@vt.edu > > (I never added the proper server name to mts.conf because it was bounci= ng > all over the place, partly due to hysterical raisins, while my employer > was first drinking the Google kook-aid.) > > From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 13:02:30 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIFrH-0005np-Ub for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:02:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60827) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIFrF-0005gx-1T for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:02:26 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIFc7-0003gJ-U5 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:46:48 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:49640) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIFc7-0003g8-Qt for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:46:47 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2321A2CD3; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 12:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81C8A21FA7; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 17:46:46 +0100 (BST) To: Stewart Wilson cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org reply-to: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-reply-to: References: <20190421143522.59FC621FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <852b882838c8b14dfcca2535ae04fdbe.squirrel@eskimo.com> <20190421160558.06C6421FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 17:46:46 +0100 Message-Id: <20190421164646.81C8A21FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Reply to Ralph Corderoy X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 17:02:26 -0000 Hi Stewart, > /etc/nmh/mts.conf, owned by root, has mod 600. Valdis guessed correctly in his email to the list then! Looks like a bug in nmh's Makefile; it produces mts.conf by re-directing the output of sed, but a umask of 077 would leave the file as 600. > I am very grateful for your help (may hope to have it again). No problem; always happy to help a colonial. :-) --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 13:30:03 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIGHz-0000zY-M4 for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:30:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36477) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIGHw-0000z6-J8 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:30:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIGHv-00052E-JR for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:30:00 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:50482) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIGHv-00051k-G3 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:29:59 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A8C21A2BE2; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:29:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC80721FA7; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 18:29:57 +0100 (BST) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org cc: Stewart Wilson From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-reply-to: <20190421164646.81C8A21FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> References: <20190421143522.59FC621FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <852b882838c8b14dfcca2535ae04fdbe.squirrel@eskimo.com> <20190421160558.06C6421FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <20190421164646.81C8A21FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 18:29:57 +0100 Message-Id: <20190421172957.AC80721FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Reply to Ralph Corderoy X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 17:30:01 -0000 Hi, I wrote: > Looks like a bug in nmh's Makefile; it produces mts.conf by > re-directing the output of sed, but a umask of 077 would leave the > file as 600. ISTM it's also a bug to ignore problems opening a file that exists, and to ignore a file given in an environment variable not existing. --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 21 23:33:21 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIPhp-0006HM-NO for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 23:33:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59815) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIPhl-0006GN-Os for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 23:33:18 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIPhk-0007Hv-UF for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 23:33:17 -0400 Received: from omr2.cc.ipv6.vt.edu ([2607:b400:92:8400:0:33:fb76:806e]:43848 helo=omr2.cc.vt.edu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIPhk-0007HP-Pu for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 23:33:16 -0400 Received: from mr1.cc.vt.edu (mr1.cc.vt.edu [IPv6:2607:b400:92:8300:0:31:1732:8aa4]) by omr2.cc.vt.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x3M3XCpf008708 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 23:33:13 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-f198.google.com (mail-qk1-f198.google.com [209.85.222.198]) by mr1.cc.vt.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id x3M3X7Jn022706 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 23:33:12 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-f198.google.com with SMTP id c25so9518547qkl.6 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 20:33:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:date:message-id; bh=9g3TodB3nIq8SLhWyjIb/ijHefwq1aOXe1U8aBZbSyg=; b=e3uMU3VKf/LYtW5GtqtGMtR+rr8Z2C8bk4voUEI26DmhVqtaXVIc9sqCkIZyZ5+Rbd WZhak6GyOTRt3y/PBFa3FCrLOkWUj9pMFW6mkcQXsQLAFHyQnLxDeN8cDinrRPxwvPMu sMVouAAclrFbJo0uUtsjRvsdr9tJwOX4FZBRMwRAj+vZm+VWgNnBKY86G+ue2P/gekxK Ebu9Sh2dXQMR7uOSpKt4M3E45FnOOAFMpPoUO+5GEWLJfOv0NERjt5ncBJdo7KHvfwWY DsX8Dq3owZKwpiWwn03wmULjMInZuIqQY4Ut+bYeE9idXPxQJftt9ec3yCkuCEmZq8o0 XjaQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUOjwbMtPw283qBP9XKDcGuOZSig/0/POJfDuQkU0PaVmbJMPfl S4dHMcuzAm8Vv/oWNhzh/wIoPoWhSMH5mdA//JtOmXqWXKNLdF4zqp0AnhId9+ixS+8cx5mhccb KD1GTkUbhEMDHIqk1iwooJNDbh28= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:ee0c:: with SMTP id i12mr11184038qkg.46.1555903987492; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 20:33:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz0De6wjK0cX9icS9tGs3RxuVQIqzBGTqHNZrUxGtKz8CJXrcmFCwW0nmt+Jq2/ZK09f3mM0Q== X-Received: by 2002:ae9:ee0c:: with SMTP id i12mr11184032qkg.46.1555903987269; Sun, 21 Apr 2019 20:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from turing-police ([2601:5c0:c001:4341::1ae]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f47sm7289328qta.80.2019.04.21.20.33.05 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 21 Apr 2019 20:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Valdis Kletnieks From: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" X-Google-Original-From: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.7+dev To: Ralph Corderoy cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org, Stewart Wilson In-reply-to: <20190421172957.AC80721FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> References: <20190421143522.59FC621FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <852b882838c8b14dfcca2535ae04fdbe.squirrel@eskimo.com> <20190421160558.06C6421FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <20190421164646.81C8A21FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <20190421172957.AC80721FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 23:33:05 -0400 Message-ID: <19526.1555903985@turing-police> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 2607:b400:92:8400:0:33:fb76:806e Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Reply to Ralph Corderoy X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 03:33:18 -0000 On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 18:29:57 +0100, Ralph Corderoy said: > ISTM it's also a bug to ignore problems opening a file that exists, and > to ignore a file given in an environment variable not existing. I agree on the first. The second probably need to be more nuanced, and "a *specific* file given in the environment". Consider how *PATH variables work, and it's possible that none of the directories contain the file in question and it's still OK. From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Apr 22 05:59:14 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIVjG-0007kf-BI for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 05:59:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55033) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIVjC-0007j9-3j for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 05:59:12 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIVjB-0005X1-3v for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 05:59:10 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:41394) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIVjB-0005WY-0Q for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 05:59:09 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19EAE1A2F1E; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 05:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EE0722030; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 10:59:07 +0100 (BST) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org cc: Stewart Wilson From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-reply-to: <19526.1555903985@turing-police> References: <20190421143522.59FC621FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <852b882838c8b14dfcca2535ae04fdbe.squirrel@eskimo.com> <20190421160558.06C6421FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <20190421164646.81C8A21FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <20190421172957.AC80721FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <19526.1555903985@turing-police> Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 10:59:07 +0100 Message-Id: <20190422095907.6EE0722030@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Reply to Ralph Corderoy X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 09:59:12 -0000 Hi Valdis, > > ISTM it's also a bug to ignore problems opening a file that exists, > > and to ignore a file given in an environment variable not existing. > > I agree on the first. The second probably need to be more nuanced, > and "a *specific* file given in the environment". Consider how *PATH > variables work, and it's possible that none of the directories contain > the file in question and it's still OK. Yes, I meant only environment variables intended for nmh and defined by it to have a path, absolute or relative, to a file, e.g. MHMTSCONF. mh_profile(5) lists many. I don't think any of them are PATH-like; I=C2=A0agree, when searching a PATH-like it's not an error if a directory doesn't exist. I've opened https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/index.php?56192 so it doesn't get forgotten. --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Apr 22 06:11:31 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIVv9-0001sq-GR for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 06:11:31 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57116) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIVv7-0001sj-Mh for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 06:11:30 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIVv6-0003LX-BJ for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 06:11:29 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:41660) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIVv6-0003LE-7g for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 06:11:28 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 688C41A2EE9; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 06:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9DA022030; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 11:11:26 +0100 (BST) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org reply-To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org cc: Stewart Wilson From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-reply-to: <20190422065006.A774821F85@orac.inputplus.co.uk> References: <20190422065006.A774821F85@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 11:11:26 +0100 Message-Id: <20190422101126.A9DA022030@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Reply to Ralph Corderoy X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 10:11:30 -0000 Hi Stewart, > I used dnf to install nmh-1.7.1-2.fc28.x86_64 from a repository. =20 > So I guess the bug was in there too. From https://fedora.pkgs.org/28/fedora-x86_64/nmh-1.7.1-2.fc28.x86_64.rpm.html I got http://download-ib01.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/28/Every= thing/x86_64/os/Packages/n/nmh-1.7.1-2.fc28.x86_64.rpm and that seems to have reasonable permissions on everything. $ ./rpm2cpio nmh-1.7.1-2.fc28.x86_64.rpm | bsdtar tvf - | grep mts -rw-r--r-- 1 0 0 1813 Apr 5 2018 ./etc/nmh/mts.conf -rw-r--r-- 1 0 0 41 Apr 5 2018 ./usr/share/man/man5/= mts.conf.5.gz $ $ ./rpm2cpio nmh-1.7.1-2.fc28.x86_64.rpm | > bsdtar tvf - | > egrep -v '^(drwxr-xr-x|-(rw-r--r--|rwxr-xr-x)|lrwxrwxrwx)' $ So at least that's one thing that doesn't need fixing. It could be that a root:root 644 /etc/nmh/mts.conf when edited by you in some manner with a umask of 77 becomes 600. --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Apr 22 15:53:02 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIezu-0006CC-9E for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 15:53:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59434) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIezs-0006AI-38 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 15:53:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIezq-0001TU-Ri for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 15:53:00 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp20.pobox.com ([173.228.157.52]:53123) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIezn-0001K1-E3 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 15:52:56 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp20.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5987B67B69 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 15:52:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kenh@pobox.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type:date:message-id; s=sasl; bh=l 7XR9MKTSgeEGJMZJhZrSbzD3Q0=; b=cj+sKcbF3TZdIMXndVpbgx2E828KVdn2Q mvZJPm1+wglp+j3q1FMippr3AYbJFpppJf2xdbc8cmkHGeN9tNTQnOCx8y2Iv4lJ R5h8wQ49rGcInl8bY7Qo1Dta3dPJRKDHv2LToUxeqUUBXMt486A5SUUHoSirRzlx MlfKO8w7AA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :mime-version:content-type:date:message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=OU0 pkAKKXVZsnb+U5oo+flsCsVdvKpCUyHgovsSNDNiaNafbcIRX6XM0c99C+GEgfBX KKoDugDqA9+vN9WbupA5NbfOIRMWB1gog3St2PqueUhXV2+PMN0NZsoOsh796/PE cazhLeUgW+AKjZZBbQNnSaWbetu17ekKZrCBsnu4= Received: from pb-smtp20.sea.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5315667B68 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 15:52:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kenh@pobox.com) Received: from zoolander.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (unknown [134.207.12.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DFD1C67B67 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 15:52:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kenh@pobox.com) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 15:52:48 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 356810BA-6538-11E9-A061-D01F9763A999-90216062!pb-smtp20.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 173.228.157.52 Subject: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 19:53:01 -0000 I've been having a problem when occasionally at a What now? prompt when I use the "send" command the process will get killed with a -9 out of nowhere (this is on MacOS X High Sierra). I finally realized that the same problem is causing the test suite to fail for the dist test, so I decided to track it down. The short answer is: it's because of closefds(). Specifically, the call in the "sendit()" function in whatnowsbr.c, right before the call to sendsbr(). What is happening is there is a specific descriptor marked as something called the "NETPOLICY" descriptor, and if that is closed your process is killed. I understand why functions like closefds() are used right before exec(), but in this case a fair amonut of stuff happens before exec is called, and it's way before fork() is eventually called as well. The other uses of closefds() are after a fork() occurs, or right before exec() happens (see whom.c). Can anyone think of a reason that for this specific case closefds() should NOT be moved from whatnowbr.c (and send.c) into sendsbr.c, and just in the child process? --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Apr 22 18:12:09 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIhAX-0002jy-2w for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:12:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58298) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIhAU-0002i5-Rm for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:12:07 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIhAT-0004U9-Mg for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:12:06 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:41612) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIhAT-0004TR-I3 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:12:05 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AC371A30C0 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:12:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57DA1220A9 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 23:12:03 +0100 (BST) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-reply-to: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 23:12:03 +0100 Message-Id: <20190422221203.57DA1220A9@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 22:12:07 -0000 Hi Ken, > Can anyone think of a reason that for this specific case closefds() > should NOT be moved from whatnowbr.c (and send.c) into sendsbr.c, and > just in the child process? IT does seem odd to have it in the parent rather than just the child. The only thing I can think of is if it's cleaning up some file-descriptor leak in the parent, especially if one of the still-open files will be opened anew by the child. Perhaps closefds() could peer at /proc/getpid()/fd to see what these FDs that start from three onwards are? To test it's working, perhaps a `42>/tmp/foo' when running the command. --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Apr 22 18:13:24 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIhBk-0002y9-A2 for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:13:24 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58483) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIhBi-0002xw-2R for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:13:22 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIhBh-0005GR-8d for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:13:21 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f179.google.com ([209.85.160.179]:45727) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIhBf-0005Ey-C6 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:13:19 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f179.google.com with SMTP id v20so13898514qtv.12 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 15:13:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:date:message-id; bh=DE+053vxf+oaJkySkY313NEH3+kCq1HwUTOYrsIflyo=; b=KJPL7389/YPmVxZoFSmQSHQb3N+f2PaFwTYMxMH1Bux0KvrK6+oFQOAlg5hhkz2g5K C+cyMYN2xxkXBrDwzsKxhD2qe9Tm6o9CGj7nzYj/XWCKzT4sHmFJ9wxyNCtBtInUumQh +zDuvnUHn0ReTslYmHku3ATnVxIwGjoo+7gUqRTrbEpLy1vbQ0Qc25/2uUsvjP7UrPYh nRkVeE1vKeb7/g6SDMT38sqmjTnTQ3CSsNxTODXX8vIy72I72Y61MaPoOlf4J5KpRjGW 54vqrl0iwNe99u8q9WB79+rfGyHcPLbuSi8RbssFTxVopYB2s6FxKujxr16dY8PAHcBM VWhQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXR4h3VkAsrMu3SJA73qRKAbmU5R+wTVke+o9UoZcGw0XKJp0sH gdomODSvy42Hg+DjLDSktPTDDSpjD5I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwvJNnvngM8C7mn4J9DRiruvnLuA/CkZ8xNpirL52uRqtwVra+EoouHaN9Gx/2JCcx651qpIQ== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:2285:: with SMTP id f5mr17551630qta.241.1555971195897; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 15:13:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stl.localdomain ([2601:18f:902:7700::3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h62sm6867390qkd.92.2019.04.22.15.13.15 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 22 Apr 2019 15:13:15 -0700 (PDT) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: David Levine In-Reply-To: my message of Mon, 22 Apr 2019 15:52:48 -0400 References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:13:14 -0400 Message-ID: <3380-1555971194.367734@qBvC.IuYB.8mEt> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.160.179 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 22:13:22 -0000 Ken wrote: > Can anyone think of a reason that for this specific > case closefds() should NOT be moved from whatnowbr.c (and send.c) into > sendsbr.c, and just in the child process? That looks like a good change. The callers of sendsbr() shouldn't be concerned with its fork/exec. Those two closefds() have been there since early 1990, and maybe earlier. David From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Apr 22 18:30:16 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIhS4-0000Rh-Bk for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:30:16 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33348) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIhS1-0000RY-JM for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:30:14 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIhS0-0005zF-Mo for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:30:13 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-f195.google.com ([209.85.222.195]:35004) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIhS0-0005yf-JY for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:30:12 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-f195.google.com with SMTP id n81so3541071qke.2 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 15:30:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:cc:from:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:date:message-id; bh=brMVaigjme+fzuZNfQVQ069Eo51uTY1A43/YhqqAhWU=; b=GTk3MtxvNK7CblNNk0ju2jGnkd195svM1jALt9pJVUmtBZ/WxuDKF1jaXBeis3LHwC RSvhlJYN6/B/iDySXokpnuEvymbKIHtKl04c/ZE5cj++Q5hH+6gnBxrtu1SdPfuClGOo cdJ0q1jR25uQQWBkVGW91NMVsrBJI4pe7d6W/n6nfSUuLWUJdgLAaOrttOhvHEPhMrwy ZXrhEaFBr12k8A6XDBfmFfXMB5xHvva/UZY+m8har1JoraOWt5cUR3ROyFtuwRxam9XD uzdeTSQ9vBnfTtB118y2DStyfLKnA5oaM1LCLep1NokDJNIj9dtPherXCboWj0tIpP9m yZSw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWXHCeyur54wG4bCYw1tAxD/hVLz1Dht8nkPl0uZbttnqm8R7N5 nRsUJteRqBpLBWNUaKuhaJ4xVY21gZQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwrHD2YqBxLmu/Pb/c9ORs7ewWTzVGlb0TXHgNLeVNnwT1+wh2WtAuXcbmsDp+T5ANm5ukvSQ== X-Received: by 2002:a37:7c87:: with SMTP id x129mr16638515qkc.311.1555972209601; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 15:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stl.localdomain ([2601:18f:902:7700::3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 50sm3553449qtn.73.2019.04.22.15.30.08 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 22 Apr 2019 15:30:08 -0700 (PDT) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org Cc: Stewart Wilson From: David Levine In-Reply-To: my message of Sun, 21 Apr 2019 17:28:28 +0100 References: <3e8742b002f261dd5975c441f951bf23.squirrel@eskimo.com> <20190421162828.1577921FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:30:07 -0400 Message-ID: <3803-1555972207.958486@dlPn.dv6d.HiFK> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.222.195 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] send fails X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 22:30:14 -0000 Ralph wrote: > Hi Stewart, > > > send: -port 2525 -alias /home/wilson/.mh_aliases -server mail.eskimo.com > > Yes, that would work, though only for you and not any other users. The port can't be set in mts.conf, so it wouldn't be straightforward to support that for all users. Though it sounds like that's not an issue in this case. David From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Apr 22 18:40:49 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIhcG-0002L7-U3 for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:40:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35077) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIhcE-00029m-Bs for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:40:47 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIhcD-0003Y3-8i for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:40:46 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp1.pobox.com ([64.147.108.70]:60168) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIhcC-0003WC-Sr for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:40:45 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp1.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFCCF13A96B for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:40:43 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; s=sasl; bh=3iKCHAIqinOiTw5/+iE5bWtkFFg=; b=panGbZTE P+NJGn72qVuBihQRxfnrXnl1Pci+V8wt0um9XfXGlW7nckEmgQckId/0V1kEK4Sg okewh3E5jwD8kUtMw17zoecCl+67QwWi/zISRxarMLPO7ji44GG0dIA++5VaQg6U jLVF1BOy50HM7iiRU5d+wxRgI/oj3CV6B1o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=eiyapuUTb7si//hCVpMWzujyny0oj5bqyC Ib/j5CJuVO1/fnkdyIiBAPpqml38QaHMu6VNJGigQh2LRmvh4KDnVWRsbZO+JVRK 4Q1oMyjzx2u3Ps3hpzJ4GIpd0HbOrskam7ZPW4vL6DV3nKa/H3tLsHkZfXyu+tla FqE+cfPFs= Received: from pb-smtp1.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B727A13A96A for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from paradise-falls.internal (unknown [96.241.66.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5200913A968 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:40:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:40:42 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: A99725D6-654F-11E9-89AD-1646B3964D18-90216062!pb-smtp1.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 64.147.108.70 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 22:40:47 -0000 >I understand why functions like closefds() are used right before exec(), >but in this case a fair amonut of stuff happens before exec is called, >and it's way before fork() is eventually called as well. The other uses >of closefds() are after a fork() occurs, or right before exec() happens >(see whom.c). Can anyone think of a reason that for this specific >case closefds() should NOT be moved from whatnowbr.c (and send.c) into >sendsbr.c, and just in the child process? So, following up to myself .... At least I figured out why closefds() is calld so early. The issue is the use of the -idanno flag. This flag is used to pass a file descriptor down for annotations (the called of "post" passes down a file descriptor number using -idanno, and post writes out the annotation to that descriptor). So we'd need to either call closefds() before the annotations descriptor is created, or make it so closefds() can skip one particular descriptor. But the bigger question is ... why is closefds() used at all? I see it being used by rcvtty(1), repl(1), send(1), slocal(1), whatnow(1), and whom(1), 6 instances at all. But by my count there are 28 calls to exec*(); I didn't match them all up, but it seems like most of the time we start a child process we don't bother closing all descriptors. I realize this was a common practice "back in the day", but if any library functions create a descriptor they should use O_CLOEXEC or FD_CLOEXEC. And if the concern is nmh leaking file descriptors, we should either fix that problem or use FD_CLOEXEC ourselves. This isn't just an nmh problem either ... I see a similar inconsistent use of closefds() in the MH source code. I suggest we simply remove closefds() completely. Ralph, David, I saw your comments ... with my follow-up information, what do you think of that? --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Apr 22 19:24:37 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIiIf-0000Mu-Ov for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 19:24:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40604) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIiId-0000KT-Qy for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 19:24:36 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIi9v-0007Vt-W0 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 19:15:36 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com ([64.147.108.71]:60610) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIi9v-0007Uw-Ks for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 19:15:35 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A34621341CA for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 19:15:34 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; s=sasl; bh=YZIy8mfv6o2Ff4AIxt9IruVNIh8=; b=WBVKOofx iWJ0WZ+SstgN2U4IjUk5LxKcDI333e4Tadm7hWZLexe4DgJy9EpStNFOQX05Yk5/ wq+pBv6WIZc8+5d1/nzW+cSvhi/dObW9saf6tUXE3sW1LFYtRa19puLMA89QqRKb OLSNM0lesB0Z2QCfva4b8LdX8GbL2CojTEY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=lqv9WPa3uzn6HMactuA1DO0x89i84qEfNU h5Uhw+4wOV1az0I9mEU1rnCsbR1w8/5Gu3k8SYbBxzlh4tYJLtqMW8GOtdExqR6w ylOpM0Xb6aQteaW5sE109Xa6PzBvgHFHKzstHHkSMUrQrO6lIu1K/nc/4u4fPCyZ B1nb01+JQ= Received: from pb-smtp2.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B4141341C9 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 19:15:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from paradise-falls.internal (unknown [96.241.66.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 28A0A1341C8 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 19:15:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <20190421172957.AC80721FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> References: <20190421143522.59FC621FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <852b882838c8b14dfcca2535ae04fdbe.squirrel@eskimo.com> <20190421160558.06C6421FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <20190421164646.81C8A21FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <20190421172957.AC80721FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 19:15:33 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 87D37378-6554-11E9-B894-DF19F34BB12D-90216062!pb-smtp2.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190422231534.9B4141341C9@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 64.147.108.71 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Reply to Ralph Corderoy X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 23:24:36 -0000 >> Looks like a bug in nmh's Makefile; it produces mts.conf by >> re-directing the output of sed, but a umask of 077 would leave the >> file as 600. > >ISTM it's also a bug to ignore problems opening a file that exists, and >to ignore a file given in an environment variable not existing. I discovered today if there is no .mh_profile as specified by 'MH', you'll get an error. Which seems right to me. If there's no .mh_profile in your home directory you'll be prompted to run install-mh. I don't believe mts.conf is technically required, but I hear you. So you're fine with erroring out if opening MHMTSCONF fails for any reason ... and for the default mts.conf file, would you rather error out if errno != ENOENT, or if errno == EACCES, or some other condition? --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Apr 22 19:55:38 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIimg-0005CD-0F for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 19:55:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44654) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIimd-00058J-Io for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 19:55:36 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIijL-0007Fh-8K for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 19:52:12 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f181.google.com ([209.85.160.181]:43915) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIijL-0007FV-51 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 19:52:11 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f181.google.com with SMTP id i14so14098563qtr.10 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 16:52:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:date:message-id; bh=gPAiQjw/AHvfwsMyqwErBnMJZoswtfKw3IEMC6pNjXI=; b=mnBl2Wy1nO818qh/N9JZuSf+QPgeuVsfuVzazocDizGFKCJIk/WIlywfmSDXi3I0px 3qp1KqCtD9F1Ly/aHmt7Dg595o6wOhTWS6uBg9O3xclSdqA8Rsuxk84iESylPifGRB/l kD/UYnncF5+qqBHOXixpdfgSyrYhcHSHIhKr18BlxR5uEZBrcmOiYVvs4aNO9XhHW0Z6 qyO3YS/looZYRosfPnwjCb+DaNjfI/2Ed9LxpxN9AfS5DsmpwkeP+wyA++Bpsw8nmhrr /jn4O0Ea/+yscDPGA8ahsQ7Uw1gDO4oVlp4tXRIPeDOS5IqvYUapqEywxC+QKu+sfqaB TZcA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV2KIpcz4oZMHuIAgsUgnsuXIEABOO1JP5LrgM6V1LAWnjKQecH xjMRupmXWtvnhoL1HbTp0mrYyJLch34= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyFkZ6DYfWQnyT87DLQIsmFKr2VeQhxKSFDoYdCyESg6+YYuyiaufMXqc/9d5HcRGbXhgXI+g== X-Received: by 2002:a0c:c48c:: with SMTP id u12mr18175216qvi.107.1555977129806; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 16:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stl.localdomain ([2601:18f:902:7700::3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g12sm7495493qki.76.2019.04.22.16.52.08 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 22 Apr 2019 16:52:08 -0700 (PDT) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: David Levine In-Reply-To: my message of Mon, 22 Apr 2019 18:40:42 -0400 References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 19:52:08 -0400 Message-ID: <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.160.181 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 23:55:36 -0000 Ken wrote: > I suggest we simply remove closefds() completely. Great idea! Ralph's suggestion of looking for only open fds addresses the suboptimality of closefds(), though only for systems that use /proc. I'd prefer to see the application take better care of its resources, but that's much easier with new code. David From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Apr 22 20:08:54 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIizW-0001P7-Kr for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 20:08:54 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47397) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIizT-0001Ot-Sl for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 20:08:52 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIizR-0008MD-KI for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 20:08:51 -0400 Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us ([66.207.139.130]:44674) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIizQ-0008HM-GQ for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 20:08:48 -0400 Received: from sss1.sss.pgh.pa.us (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x3MNwWhD000555 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 19:58:32 -0400 From: Tom Lane To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-reply-to: <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> Comments: In-reply-to David Levine message dated "Mon, 22 Apr 2019 19:52:08 -0400" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <553.1555977512.1@sss.pgh.pa.us> Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 19:58:32 -0400 Message-ID: <554.1555977512@sss.pgh.pa.us> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 66.207.139.130 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 00:08:52 -0000 David Levine writes: > Ken wrote: >> I suggest we simply remove closefds() completely. > Great idea! Makes sense from here. You could back-fill use of CLOEXEC anywhere it seemed important. regards, tom lane From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Apr 22 21:09:37 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIjwH-00022y-BW for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 21:09:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56671) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIjwF-00022W-Ad for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 21:09:36 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIjv8-0007tQ-J8 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 21:08:27 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp1.pobox.com ([64.147.108.70]:63474) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIjv8-0007rI-3j for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 21:08:26 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp1.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D41A713B902 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 21:08:24 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; s=sasl; bh=emH2z/NjGi5Ce7wfT7eHAzzBDbQ=; b=uLobV4NU fnd327EN8+QIDznFa0fzvRg0CY8fcBjMope3VaVzB1tpYkOTY6gbmwW21fhYLTiB LHagq/EEs9mYTkYhMgAsA4wmjfxEh86d0pMXojABbDQBlQxcv6n4AuUrb1TQsCCb 8yuD0CUaRl89XNxvClptnVHsdugOhs1uAvM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=VMcp62bB3yK3b48ieaT2/dKNDT/m+xt4OY JNMpDVm37wB+Em9Z1eGJldvlezxTgfFHge8pqQSaaukWn1YKnCUYcTuuH4hhUMOO vva5u70PD1mponA2Io2iRKlRf5FMA9vb5wXEPEGHX6cAQc/FemM81WV/q7b4aqmd B08gk9VP8= Received: from pb-smtp1.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC89D13B901 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 21:08:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from paradise-falls.internal (unknown [96.241.66.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 557CB13B900 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 21:08:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <554.1555977512@sss.pgh.pa.us> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <554.1555977512@sss.pgh.pa.us> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 21:08:23 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 4B2B35FE-6564-11E9-853A-1646B3964D18-90216062!pb-smtp1.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190423010824.CC89D13B901@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 64.147.108.70 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 01:09:36 -0000 >David Levine writes: >> Ken wrote: >>> I suggest we simply remove closefds() completely. > >> Great idea! > >Makes sense from here. You could back-fill use of CLOEXEC anywhere >it seemed important. Alright, done. In the "weird things I discovered while doing this" ... I saw in slocal that when mail is delivered to a process via a pipe, right after fork() and right before exec(), it uses dup2() to duplicate the file descriptor pointing to the input message down to 0 (expected), opens /dev/null and redirects standard output and standard error to it (expected), but ALSO uses dup2() to make an additional copy of the input file descriptor to descriptor 3 (!). Does anyone know why? It looks like it has always done this. --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 06:09:20 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIsMZ-0006iB-Uw for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 06:09:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40476) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIsMX-0006g0-9u for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 06:09:18 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIsMW-000578-43 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 06:09:17 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:60240) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIsMU-00052W-Gd for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 06:09:14 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 508501A3511 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 06:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7E4121F83 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:09:11 +0100 (BST) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-reply-to: <20190422231534.9B4141341C9@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> References: <20190421143522.59FC621FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <852b882838c8b14dfcca2535ae04fdbe.squirrel@eskimo.com> <20190421160558.06C6421FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <20190421164646.81C8A21FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <20190421172957.AC80721FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <20190422231534.9B4141341C9@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:09:11 +0100 Message-Id: <20190423100911.A7E4121F83@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Handling Configuration-file Read Errors. X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:09:18 -0000 Hi Ken, > I don't believe mts.conf is technically required, but I hear you. > So you're fine with erroring out if opening MHMTSCONF fails for any > reason ... and for the default mts.conf file, would you rather error > out if errno !=3D ENOENT, or if errno =3D=3D EACCES, or some other > condition? Taking each configuration file, at the level of system or user, and deciding if it's optional, based on existing documentation and code, and whether that's correct, seems orthogonal to how to handle problems with optional and mandatory configuration files. So I was punting on that with https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?56192 :-) mts.conf and environment-variable friends was just the case at hand. Getting agreement on the desired handling, and I think we've got that, means we can then check how reality matches per configuration file. --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 07:37:59 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hItkN-0006eT-OZ for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 07:37:59 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38390) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hItkL-0006cQ-1Y for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 07:37:57 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hItkK-0005o1-5A for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 07:37:57 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:34858) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hItkK-0005nc-1H for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 07:37:56 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AAC91A2F51; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 07:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8537E2152E; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:37:54 +0100 (BST) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org reply-To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org cC: Stewart Wilson From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-reply-to: <3803-1555972207.958486@dlPn.dv6d.HiFK> References: <3e8742b002f261dd5975c441f951bf23.squirrel@eskimo.com> <20190421162828.1577921FA7@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <3803-1555972207.958486@dlPn.dv6d.HiFK> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:37:54 +0100 Message-Id: <20190423113754.8537E2152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] send fails X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:37:58 -0000 Hi David, > > > send: -port 2525 -alias /home/wilson/.mh_aliases -server mail.eskim= o.com > > > > Yes, that would work, though only for you and not any other users. > > The port can't be set in mts.conf, so it wouldn't be straightforward > to support that for all users. No, agreed. But I snipped too much context and Stewart had worked out it was the -server that was key to success so I *think* that was the `that' to which I referred. --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 08:24:59 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIuTr-0002P5-IR for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:24:59 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49059) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIuTp-000283-Bq for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:24:58 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIuG8-0002XS-J9 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:10:49 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:36140) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIuG8-0002X9-F3 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:10:48 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B48291A35FA for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:10:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED6E42152E for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:10:46 +0100 (BST) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-reply-to: <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:10:46 +0100 Message-Id: <20190423121046.ED6E42152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:24:58 -0000 Hi, David wrote: > Ken wrote: > > I suggest we simply remove closefds() completely. ... > Ralph's suggestion of looking for only open fds addresses the > suboptimality of closefds(), though only for systems that use /proc. That was just meant as a temporary debugging aid to see what was sneaking through. :-) I agree with the general principle that if we open it, we track it, and then close it so it doesn't reach the child, typically with O_CLOEXEC or FD_CLOEXEC. Calling close(2) lots of times based on getdtablesize(3) can take a while. screen(1) had a bug recently where it was taking ages trying to close almost 512 Ki of them. https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2019-March/046214.html I don't think there's any multi-threading in nmh so we just have what's open at the time of fork(2) to deal with. --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 08:51:23 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIutP-00017I-P4 for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:51:23 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53674) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIutN-00010e-Go for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:51:22 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIueI-0007e4-Tz for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:35:47 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:37004) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIueH-0007cn-Mx for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:35:45 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED9421A3616 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:35:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DAFA2152E for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:35:44 +0100 (BST) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-reply-to: <20190423010824.CC89D13B901@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <554.1555977512@sss.pgh.pa.us> <20190423010824.CC89D13B901@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:35:44 +0100 Message-Id: <20190423123544.3DAFA2152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:51:22 -0000 Hi Ken, > but ALSO uses dup2() to make an additional copy of the input file > descriptor to descriptor 3 (!). Does anyone know why? It looks like > it has always done this. It's not the only one, e.g. docs/historical/mh-6.8.5/uip/post.c has 2622 if (fd !=3D 0) 2623 (void) dup2 (fd, 0); 2624 (void) freopen ("/dev/null", "w", stdout); 2625 (void) freopen ("/dev/null", "w", stderr); 2626 if (fd !=3D 3) /* backwards compatible... */ 2627 (void) dup2 (fd, 3); 2628 closefds (4); Note the comment. --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 08:59:20 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIv16-0005yh-7l for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:59:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55416) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIv14-0005xF-F4 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:59:19 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIv13-0006gh-JJ for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:59:18 -0400 Received: from family.redbarn.org ([2001:559:8000:cd::5]:13683) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIv13-0006YL-Ca for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:59:17 -0400 Received: from [172.16.74.22] (unknown [50.235.236.62]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by family.redbarn.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 078AC892C6 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:59:06 +0000 (UTC) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <20190423121046.ED6E42152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> From: Paul Vixie Message-ID: <14d1bf37-03e6-1b08-6651-368f50ce10fc@redbarn.org> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 05:59:05 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 PostboxApp/6.1.14 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190423121046.ED6E42152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2001:559:8000:cd::5 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:59:19 -0000 Ralph Corderoy wrote on 2019-04-23 05:10: > ... > > I agree with the general principle that if we open it, we track it, and > then close it so it doesn't reach the child, typically with O_CLOEXEC or > FD_CLOEXEC. ... to that end, i propose that we treat any open descriptor N>2 at the time of an exec() to be a bug, which is to be fixed by setting O_CLOEXEC at time of creation. -- P Vixie From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 10:04:58 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIw2c-0007Aw-61 for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:04:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40483) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIw2W-00074I-Sc for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:04:56 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIvuL-00009r-DO for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 09:56:26 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com ([64.147.108.71]:60690) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIvuL-000084-5e for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 09:56:25 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49399139821 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 09:56:23 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; s=sasl; bh=f0JzFqmXMx3MshTkhLNyS80ZG4E=; b=gHhtrx+T eWhWC7EwBLi4DTjWmVgAmGeWGqh+OKay8/0KBVlKFybIh+/RQWBc307JTQX5agCl DXpwzfUioQvwcMaGKWSChCq/PJDHGhe3t2gSctVw94uUdB7WwQydhgxbDwGWrkUU vV2DQgMiH/0o+UlGMPA/nkJf5XxDVOvA9Bc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=x0eEY6d5V1E5UbUKn65b2SUeTk/5E5FcrV /ej/WPzf4NDA0UdzTzrkcxH76VH5QXWSigsa/+P+7pPPbA/21Eo2pXe9k4XOHggB UHv0iTmt5h178GBrnMn1MmXGiTf7oZkeWMdEeWEDkcE0SgmUXlyz6g/EVdIUm3Jz PewFSjlJU= Received: from pb-smtp2.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41107139820 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 09:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zoolander.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (unknown [134.207.12.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CE2A413981F for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 09:56:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <20190423121046.ED6E42152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <20190423121046.ED6E42152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 09:56:22 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 94172A6E-65CF-11E9-8448-DF19F34BB12D-90216062!pb-smtp2.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190423135623.41107139820@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 64.147.108.71 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:04:56 -0000 >I agree with the general principle that if we open it, we track it, and >then close it so it doesn't reach the child, typically with O_CLOEXEC or >FD_CLOEXEC. Calling close(2) lots of times based on getdtablesize(3) >can take a while. screen(1) had a bug recently where it was taking ages >trying to close almost 512 Ki of them. >https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2019-March/046214.html I was curious what they did, so I looked ... it looks like they actually didn't really "solve" the issue. They use a function fdwalk() on Solaris but made sure they called getdtablesize() on Linux, which it seems returns a smaller number than getrlimit(). --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 10:25:15 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIwMF-0006kE-Hg for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:25:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44252) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIwMA-0006cI-KG for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:25:11 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIwHn-0002lq-S7 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:20:40 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:42116) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIwHn-0002lb-OX for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:20:39 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAA271A366D for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:20:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F320201F4 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 15:20:38 +0100 (BST) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-reply-to: <20190423135623.41107139820@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <20190423121046.ED6E42152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <20190423135623.41107139820@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 15:20:38 +0100 Message-Id: <20190423142038.1F320201F4@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:25:11 -0000 Hi Ken, > they called getdtablesize() on Linux, which it seems returns a smaller > number than getrlimit(). That's surprising. I thought getdtablesize() was effectively return getrlimit(RLIMIT_NOFILE, &ru) < 0 ? OPEN_MAX : ru.rlim_cur; That seems to match /lib/libc.a here, if I squint a bit, assuming OPEN_MAX is 256. 0000000000000000 <__getdtablesize>: 0: f3 0f 1e fa endbr64=20 4: 48 83 ec 28 sub $0x28,%rsp 8: bf 07 00 00 00 mov $0x7,%edi d: 64 48 8b 04 25 28 00 mov %fs:0x28,%rax 14: 00 00=20 16: 48 89 44 24 18 mov %rax,0x18(%rsp) 1b: 31 c0 xor %eax,%eax 1d: 48 89 e6 mov %rsp,%rsi 20: e8 00 00 00 00 callq 25 <__getdtablesize+0x25> 21: R_X86_64_PLT32 __getrlimit-0x4 25: 8b 14 24 mov (%rsp),%edx 28: 85 c0 test %eax,%eax 2a: 78 1c js 48 <__getdtablesize+0x48> 2c: 48 8b 4c 24 18 mov 0x18(%rsp),%rcx 31: 64 48 33 0c 25 28 00 xor %fs:0x28,%rcx 38: 00 00=20 3a: 89 d0 mov %edx,%eax 3c: 75 11 jne 4f <__getdtablesize+0x4f> 3e: 48 83 c4 28 add $0x28,%rsp 42: c3 retq =20 43: 0f 1f 44 00 00 nopl 0x0(%rax,%rax,1) 48: ba 00 01 00 00 mov $0x100,%edx 4d: eb dd jmp 2c <__getdtablesize+0x2c> 4f: ff 15 00 00 00 00 callq *0x0(%rip) # 55 <__getd= tablesize+0x55> 51: R_X86_64_GOTPCRELX __stack_chk_fail-0x4 --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 10:57:47 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIwri-00041d-Se for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:57:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52980) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIwrf-00040J-KS for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:57:46 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIwrd-0000AF-NQ for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:57:43 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp20.pobox.com ([173.228.157.52]:57808) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIwrb-00006f-KR for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:57:41 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp20.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5336C4F3F4 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:57:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kenh@pobox.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; s=sasl; bh=Td40oI0XPgEl/wF3CVX9qRt4xeo=; b=PaoPngye REr42X4FDHu9HTaoMPgJVpxMYzEWNbSNbkSuvUtes1yoyXmNthRddhUMFGnAWzER VzggA1zJL9RQLgRZ+zbj+wCsHrFtwcIRAq0ggRk0ww/7GkY7GYp/J9Xf6YVunXxc uu5XOk/HHP3eDbQbSwP5zWm+tkuwFskg0LI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=RmCoC3UuN7yhlC5aCb3s5VjWfgEMlIibnz ZymnC4/3i2r1d3VAO23ELEgQvVs4qRsBCzvNyXaoWh6vVAjOIZAtnaU1Pd8cxpX2 prblIu02ivo17hEdeECPruvTXSWyW9nSqjxb0IEVn3FL8MPJEnn/9cSs7PvfL2q8 zJK9h9eo4= Received: from pb-smtp20.sea.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AFE64F3F3 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:57:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kenh@pobox.com) Received: from zoolander.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (unknown [134.207.12.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D6CC04F3EF for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:57:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kenh@pobox.com) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <20190423142038.1F320201F4@orac.inputplus.co.uk> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <20190423121046.ED6E42152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <20190423135623.41107139820@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> <20190423142038.1F320201F4@orac.inputplus.co.uk> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 10:57:32 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 203D2216-65D8-11E9-B16B-D01F9763A999-90216062!pb-smtp20.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190423145736.4AFE64F3F3@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 173.228.157.52 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:57:46 -0000 >> they called getdtablesize() on Linux, which it seems returns a smaller >> number than getrlimit(). > >That's surprising. I thought getdtablesize() was effectively > > return getrlimit(RLIMIT_NOFILE, &ru) < 0 ? OPEN_MAX : ru.rlim_cur; Hey, I don't make the news, I just report it. If you look at the bug fix referenced in that thread, the "fix" was to make sure that Linux wasn't detected as SVR4. That makes it so it calls getdtablesize() instead of getrlimit(). My understanding of getdtablesize() matches yours, but I can't see how that "fix" could make this problem better otherwise. --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 11:15:33 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIx8v-0003l2-8o for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:15:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57824) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIx8t-0003jA-L2 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:15:32 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIx8p-0002vm-Vz for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:15:29 -0400 Received: from omr2.cc.ipv6.vt.edu ([2607:b400:92:8400:0:33:fb76:806e]:42840 helo=omr2.cc.vt.edu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIx8o-0002qe-W6 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:15:27 -0400 Received: from mr1.cc.vt.edu (mr1.cc.vt.edu [IPv6:2607:b400:92:8300:0:31:1732:8aa4]) by omr2.cc.vt.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x3NFFEkX032168 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:15:14 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-f198.google.com (mail-qk1-f198.google.com [209.85.222.198]) by mr1.cc.vt.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id x3NFF9DM022162 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:15:14 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-f198.google.com with SMTP id p3so13284691qkj.18 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:15:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:date:message-id; bh=QNPScddw6AQJ/Ap0aIPq7PZK0RDYCaNAofUvkqXD5Mg=; b=Y3liLc46lNtEgm4D46wI55v1WHAJ22gcVwWSeAyvEmDeTS0c011QBTIuP0MBU5EQhF 3+927+YEVjedVct53VUWZgdlEGNCi3ODI0XvbANV8JN5k7Ako+uxtDJBOAuFxaebqSKE SccDmZyHNMQUb+uQlWi8XYe7kK6F16ajO0+39hSPV7eQ5GF5dZsHSmLjkMyxUu37oFZ5 16ckWmB+g4eGvRhuaCZ4XuAVkTT3mmgIs9qM0adE8e0+OGv4wXvGuR1lFCxAI09r5EMD aElC6I7QSv/Qcuc7+gMsQpsgsoyJVKxAYZiGV1BdYj3G4u5KAoCdRVsCxGhm2dmNDASf xDPA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVJvg6Q0aHt58yYmQdUbQtcreM5s0exdWFy2oxe0CY69URc2G1P 13Lce3ysPHedKC2jTPT1oQfNPidgyavEChzNxFnbow6dweE+1qQFycj8eW7EaqlYcsHxbV2mD7b BWQ1+Yii7kXgBsEEd2FmXP7aD5GA= X-Received: by 2002:a37:69c3:: with SMTP id e186mr19538647qkc.308.1556032509092; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:15:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxwdo5BL/VkVFhu/G4cIVa/3uZA0twmUSMl/4e1jXeor8S8L/3Pq69pgRchZaGiLPKwCZjZBw== X-Received: by 2002:a37:69c3:: with SMTP id e186mr19538588qkc.308.1556032508226; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:15:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from turing-police ([2601:5c0:c001:4341::c73]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k45sm7980893qtk.63.2019.04.23.08.15.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Valdis Kletnieks From: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" X-Google-Original-From: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.7+dev To: Ralph Corderoy cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-reply-to: <20190423123544.3DAFA2152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <554.1555977512@sss.pgh.pa.us> <20190423010824.CC89D13B901@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <20190423123544.3DAFA2152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:15:05 -0400 Message-ID: <4344.1556032505@turing-police> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 2607:b400:92:8400:0:33:fb76:806e Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 15:15:32 -0000 On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:35:44 +0100, Ralph Corderoy said: > It's not the only one, e.g. docs/historical/mh-6.8.5/uip/post.c has > > 2622 if (fd != 0) > 2623 (void) dup2 (fd, 0); > 2624 (void) freopen ("/dev/null", "w", stdout); > 2625 (void) freopen ("/dev/null", "w", stderr); > 2626 if (fd != 3) /* backwards compatible... */ > 2627 (void) dup2 (fd, 3); > 2628 closefds (4); > > Note the comment. The *real* WTF there is that the code doesn't actually know if fd 3 is known to be open on a file that should, or if it's just a stray leaked fd. From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 11:41:45 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIxYH-0003jp-EA for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:41:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36292) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIxYF-0003hn-4f for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:41:44 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIxYC-00089T-VT for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:41:43 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com ([64.147.108.71]:59642) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIxYA-00086o-CH for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:41:39 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1565413A4F5 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:41:35 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; s=sasl; bh=EHUdOWc/8guP+Q/XFtcmrZyAeDY=; b=SotCzjJa zkn8R69wWffpmkubfdeaXUZKzli3HdLhWy9f6BNEVDkDsBK8tFRTGtEGmho8cp0D X0sTeDa+yEoostGEGy5zDtR1p7JpbHM9tMVvONgWCKIZ5z24/67COUGfKhNdjNZ4 QVovEGjD4ZwYJnfFCe9y4PD0cifE23D/fGI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=ivChIMpFk9cz7VwOFf5d7x1L69wsHgZAr/ O4ycR3r8BpVwOIMZ/sYxd30gwrnKcuLLYwOAInU3ZAYsUxdwI14yLQzHzZI6LbtE iMilmx0XPcn+H8PFAv5BwlFNhm7Q3SpURSht4sucEI80CnYTOWFMkh4s370aqEav jMAteZY+s= Received: from pb-smtp2.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D7C713A4F4 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:41:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zoolander.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (unknown [134.207.12.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 86EF513A4F3 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:41:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <14d1bf37-03e6-1b08-6651-368f50ce10fc@redbarn.org> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <20190423121046.ED6E42152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <14d1bf37-03e6-1b08-6651-368f50ce10fc@redbarn.org> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:41:33 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 4629BAA6-65DE-11E9-A1DE-DF19F34BB12D-90216062!pb-smtp2.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190423154135.0D7C713A4F4@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 64.147.108.71 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 15:41:44 -0000 >> I agree with the general principle that if we open it, we track it, and >> then close it so it doesn't reach the child, typically with O_CLOEXEC or >> FD_CLOEXEC. ... > >to that end, i propose that we treat any open descriptor N>2 at the time >of an exec() to be a bug, which is to be fixed by setting O_CLOEXEC at >time of creation. +1. There are a few sneaky spots where we have to be careful; sometimes a file is opened and then expected to be used as stdin for a child process; there is also the unusual case of the -idanno flag, and it wouldn't surprise me if there was another use of a file descriptor passed down to a child process that I didn't know about. I realize that dup2() clears the FD_CLOEXEC flag on the new file descriptor so the "normal" case of an opened file being dup2() down to 0 would work correctly, but the wrinkle is that it does NOT if the old and new file descriptor are the same. That is admittedly unlikely, but it could happen in a few cases so I'd like to be as robust as possible. It seems like the right way forward, given that nowadays there are a lot of spots where we could fork another process off, is that every descriptor we open should have FD_CLOEXEC set (I added that to the networking code). Considering we haven't done that in the past for a lot of cases it doesn't seem like there's a lot of urgency, but we'll file this under "ongoing cleanup" --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 12:01:02 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIxqw-0004Xh-FH for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:01:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40978) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIxqt-0004TP-Vx for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:01:00 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIxqs-0003o4-NQ for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:00:59 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp20.pobox.com ([173.228.157.52]:51501) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIxqr-0003kL-38 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:00:58 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp20.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AE944FC71 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:00:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kenh@pobox.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; s=sasl; bh=8IcdUz4cUQzeJWY9xWJplkt/dVI=; b=W8zJ66YJ ruUf244xejtHGUn2YD0ovn76oxcMijWiNaniCDQ/2skvhWsPfj3VqYXvsjZy12Tu 4rzT9kamivZoxjX2HrScnUTbbM+KrX3cnHxMyABtITyCKFcnn9rjfbh5JCgRnHOv uadBS/dVS1rgu+S7RyzfORbPeDb83D5idRQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=Q/NtdCVf5gIdAOYiG8dqU4Y2xjRZTGnpn+ RochZlwnasxC+W0URJsbkRB0o7c1bcw4bFfj3y4S7rylG3XNqU5D3N9CrM/9mtIB FH2j/hnzTbbmZvBgvs6im2toUqgq0uOLERrr32UiFdO6lNPoCoPkU9MDdwBbCQZI +U+eMzwNA= Received: from pb-smtp20.sea.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F3174FC6D for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:00:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kenh@pobox.com) Received: from zoolander.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (unknown [134.207.12.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 02EC74FC6C for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:00:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kenh@pobox.com) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <4344.1556032505@turing-police> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <554.1555977512@sss.pgh.pa.us> <20190423010824.CC89D13B901@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <20190423123544.3DAFA2152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <4344.1556032505@turing-police> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:00:49 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: F7822E94-65E0-11E9-87D3-D01F9763A999-90216062!pb-smtp20.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190423160053.6F3174FC6D@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 173.228.157.52 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:01:01 -0000 >> It's not the only one, e.g. docs/historical/mh-6.8.5/uip/post.c has >> >> 2622 if (fd != 0) >> 2623 (void) dup2 (fd, 0); >> 2624 (void) freopen ("/dev/null", "w", stdout); >> 2625 (void) freopen ("/dev/null", "w", stderr); >> 2626 if (fd != 3) /* backwards compatible... */ >> 2627 (void) dup2 (fd, 3); >> 2628 closefds (4); >> >> Note the comment. > >The *real* WTF there is that the code doesn't actually know if fd 3 is >known to be open on a file that should, or if it's just a stray leaked fd. Wow. So do any greybeards out there have any idea of why this is there?? Clearly this was a thing, but I have no idea why. I see that same code in MH 5, so it's been that way for approximately forever. --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 12:05:09 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIxuv-0007Rr-IE for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:05:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42195) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIxus-0007QN-90 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:05:07 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIxup-0006bp-V3 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:05:06 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:47694) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIxuj-0006Of-Pp for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:05:00 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 221AE1A2E91 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C1402152E for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:04:43 +0100 (BST) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-reply-to: <20190423154135.0D7C713A4F4@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <20190423121046.ED6E42152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <14d1bf37-03e6-1b08-6651-368f50ce10fc@redbarn.org> <20190423154135.0D7C713A4F4@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:04:43 +0100 Message-Id: <20190423160443.4C1402152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:05:07 -0000 Hi Ken, > I realize that dup2() clears the FD_CLOEXEC flag on the new file > descriptor so the "normal" case of an opened file being dup2() down to > 0 would work correctly, but the wrinkle is that it does NOT if the old > and new file descriptor are the same. That is admittedly unlikely, > but it could happen in a few cases so I'd like to be as robust as > possible. Are you aware of dup3(2)? --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 12:29:35 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIyIZ-0004QL-Kg for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:29:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48350) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIyIU-0004OC-KY for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:29:31 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIyGh-0005kq-J0 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:27:40 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp1.pobox.com ([64.147.108.70]:50091) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIyGh-0005ji-5w for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:27:39 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp1.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9C67140ED3 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:27:36 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; s=sasl; bh=ILRRN0QOk9VMwKhjNjxdLPJF9yM=; b=SdV/eO4j J7U4Y4fJHLwQO7UJ3NY2LCF9nyrTT97WNag+EmITwyC6QMQUFIkN9ABxtH8Rfjmp iAfv0p8FLIOps3Og2klyoJcryTP1QYAECWtWKDAnzkNv7EHtVK5I4LjAh19oVo1z YdL+XtAsbaZHHm5WLSlxnwqFgYc2m8FnSzI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=XDQYtu4pQyj6YKBOhw+MG7vV0MClpCuHE4 SFIk/aCBgmP8oZkqs1IjXMBt6KToe5PgyvKzFRIBT6uML1dUVBA3yuJwhM+n1QUO G7B+7TTb6b2prBDAW8rt4BQiPK5DxB3nayn1z6zKYBCnwn1mhsE9gI/Zd0LFJSgb LUDR0wzsk= Received: from pb-smtp1.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D341A140ED2 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:27:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zoolander.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (unknown [134.207.12.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 69EC2140ED1 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:27:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <20190423160443.4C1402152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <20190423121046.ED6E42152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <14d1bf37-03e6-1b08-6651-368f50ce10fc@redbarn.org> <20190423154135.0D7C713A4F4@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> <20190423160443.4C1402152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:27:36 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: B45EA436-65E4-11E9-A777-1646B3964D18-90216062!pb-smtp1.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190423162736.D341A140ED2@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 64.147.108.70 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:29:31 -0000 >> I realize that dup2() clears the FD_CLOEXEC flag on the new file >> descriptor so the "normal" case of an opened file being dup2() down to >> 0 would work correctly, but the wrinkle is that it does NOT if the old >> and new file descriptor are the same. That is admittedly unlikely, >> but it could happen in a few cases so I'd like to be as robust as >> possible. > >Are you aware of dup3(2)? Hm, I had to poke around for that one. I see: dup3() is Linux-specific. (I'm aware that it seems to have made it to other operating systems, but I don't think we can rely on it). Also, it seems like dup3() doesn't do what I want, exactly. Specifically: If oldfd equals newfd, then dup3() fails with the error EINVAL. What I would like is a dup4(), where even if oldfd == newfd, then the close-on-exec flag is cleared. Not really a huge issue; we can work around it. --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 12:50:14 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIycY-0005JH-0x for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:50:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53348) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIycT-0005Fw-Ew for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:50:10 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIycS-0004N4-1j for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:50:09 -0400 Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us ([66.207.139.130]:45072) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIycR-0004MZ-Sj for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:50:07 -0400 Received: from sss1.sss.pgh.pa.us (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x3NGo31x028191; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:50:03 -0400 From: Tom Lane To: Ken Hornstein cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-reply-to: <20190423154135.0D7C713A4F4@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <20190423121046.ED6E42152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <14d1bf37-03e6-1b08-6651-368f50ce10fc@redbarn.org> <20190423154135.0D7C713A4F4@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> Comments: In-reply-to Ken Hornstein message dated "Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:41:33 -0400" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <28189.1556038203.1@sss.pgh.pa.us> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:50:03 -0400 Message-ID: <28190.1556038203@sss.pgh.pa.us> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 66.207.139.130 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:50:10 -0000 Ken Hornstein writes: > I realize that dup2() clears the FD_CLOEXEC flag on the new file > descriptor so the "normal" case of an opened file being dup2() down to 0 > would work correctly, but the wrinkle is that it does NOT if the old and > new file descriptor are the same. That is admittedly unlikely, but it > could happen in a few cases so I'd like to be as robust as possible. But is that really an issue? It'd only occur if you're passing down your own stdin, which presumably you inherited without FD_CLOEXEC. regards, tom lane From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 12:59:53 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIylt-0007hh-84 for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:59:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56466) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIylq-0007hJ-Kt for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:59:51 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIylp-0006B6-L1 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:59:50 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com ([64.147.108.71]:50577) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIylp-0006AJ-DB for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:59:49 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A266F13AF19 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:59:48 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; s=sasl; bh=fYg7s6l1EWS639jwLGhxNEkudjA=; b=J7PKEw0H 3i7jo79IoDarDhBZZaeN0D4DyuYpIQkmaJK1INN3EYefAYjT39e3HohdjGfYh626 kGqJijFaucRV3dMvcnJFFZRIls9vGxf5601Q1Iww+jdOY3Ws4d0uXJmE+0g5lZoJ 7zbjUsAopDy4bWQGB8VeZW0Z5n1bHzXiwLI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=G5BCpsHHX+saN4EWuWkiiDAD5JS/TB6QYK sRiFyRJFn1BlYSRkdcFUN5hxNxpe7Un3LL46rAx+SfR78OdIbQvWw3TwlCl0ASbQ Tjbiau5QADZ0M8BmqnP2jwv4T//Sity4iSzc9IMDP4zxX+EFPSsGu+kNdexhuC/7 m4x5695Ag= Received: from pb-smtp2.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A2B613AF18 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:59:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zoolander.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (unknown [134.207.12.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2821013AF17 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:59:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <28190.1556038203@sss.pgh.pa.us> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <20190423121046.ED6E42152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <14d1bf37-03e6-1b08-6651-368f50ce10fc@redbarn.org> <20190423154135.0D7C713A4F4@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> <28190.1556038203@sss.pgh.pa.us> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 12:59:47 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 33C58128-65E9-11E9-8C18-DF19F34BB12D-90216062!pb-smtp2.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190423165948.9A2B613AF18@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 64.147.108.71 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:59:51 -0000 >Ken Hornstein writes: >> I realize that dup2() clears the FD_CLOEXEC flag on the new file >> descriptor so the "normal" case of an opened file being dup2() down to 0 >> would work correctly, but the wrinkle is that it does NOT if the old and >> new file descriptor are the same. That is admittedly unlikely, but it >> could happen in a few cases so I'd like to be as robust as possible. > >But is that really an issue? It'd only occur if you're passing down >your own stdin, which presumably you inherited without FD_CLOEXEC. Weeelll ... here's a hypothetical issue, which I could see happening. - Something gets invoked with stdin closed; note that many of these programs that this is an issue with are run unattended, e.g. slocal(1). So it's possible (but unlikely) that they could be run without a valid stdin. - A file is opened and gets assigned the lowest valid file descriptor, which in this case is 0. Because of the "new" policy (which we haven't implemented yet), we mark it with FD_CLOEXEC. - We want to pass this file descriptor to the stdin of a subprocess. So we end up calling dup2(0, 0). We would normally expect FD_CLOEXEC to be cleared, but in this specific case it is not. So when the child process is exec()d, it's standard input is closed (and presumably doesn't work properly). If there's one thing I've learned from nmh, it is "expect weird stuff to happen" :-) --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 13:01:54 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIynq-0000SB-0K for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:01:54 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57685) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIynl-0000QP-8q for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:01:50 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIynk-00085A-9g for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:01:49 -0400 Received: from munnari.coe.psu.ac.th ([2001:3c8:9009:181::2]:63783 helo=munnari.OZ.AU) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIynj-0007jt-Hl for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:01:48 -0400 Received: from jinx.noi.kre.to (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by munnari.OZ.AU with ESMTP id x3NH1I89024234; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 00:01:18 +0700 (ICT) Received: from jinx.noi.kre.to (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jinx.noi.kre.to (8.15.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id x3NH18i2016789; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 00:01:09 +0700 (+07) From: Robert Elz To: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" cc: Ralph Corderoy , nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <4344.1556032505@turing-police> References: <4344.1556032505@turing-police> <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <554.1555977512@sss.pgh.pa.us> <20190423010824.CC89D13B901@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <20190423123544.3DAFA2152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 00:01:08 +0700 Message-ID: <24244.1556038868@jinx.noi.kre.to> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2001:3c8:9009:181::2 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:01:50 -0000 Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:15:05 -0400 From: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" Message-ID: <4344.1556032505@turing-police> | The *real* WTF there is that the code doesn't actually know if fd 3 is | known to be open on a file that should, or if it's just a stray leaked fd. I don't know why fd 3 was wanted to be a dup of stdin, but aside from that oddity, there's notthing remarkable about the code (no WTF), the test is just avoiding a (pointless) dup2(3,3). Whatever fd 3 was before executing this code, it is closed after it unless it happened to be what is wanted on stdin. kre From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 13:37:39 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hIzMR-00089s-8U for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:37:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51466) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIzMO-00081i-H1 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:37:37 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIzJO-00071D-8m for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:34:31 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp1.pobox.com ([64.147.108.70]:55625) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIzJO-0006z2-2g for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:34:30 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp1.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE740141748 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:34:27 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type:date:message-id; s=sasl; bh=G mpzpcmbYHZ2aKxC6x2YsYfRdms=; b=Tz5jwJ+N5i0nJI1fuKShbs9kiIu0BtP0d s/241si0FwuneAAt4dAz34siEY8yC5mfXXfBWYh+RgV4KA8CTs6MLaDhL8Cd3EoD PcIQNJwJhxMBtK+QNPOrgEhGd53oLNqjJrrkQ6S8cFljllKCjPasya8kZlLWsKa6 7F7z+Q6FHo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :mime-version:content-type:date:message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=puC bygv5br6OH9MBNN4D+43rAH1GZaRw7Nh80HuLB9xPNsFIL0jc1ddUBozlXbRsUYV jEPNNUbMcBy3MKJfXg4ACTRLDg3tac9/3EykvZpe4vFS+Q/bm0Tg0bVr667sBk22 LAyWln6bv+W8mL/rRCnbNfXM251JNtzN0Sk/1suI= Received: from pb-smtp1.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0CB2141747 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:34:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zoolander.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (unknown [134.207.12.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 33B0D141746 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:34:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:34:26 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 0AFADC7A-65EE-11E9-ACC2-1646B3964D18-90216062!pb-smtp1.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190423173427.C0CB2141747@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 64.147.108.70 Subject: [nmh-workers] Removing message/partial support X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:37:37 -0000 As discussed here: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/nmh-workers/2019-02/msg00035.html Currently our message/partial support does not work. I believe fixing it is straightforward, but given the links that David posted in that thread and my own research, almost no other MUAs support it and it is probably blocked by most mail providers due to concerns about viruses and spam. Can anyone think of a reason to keep it? I suggest removing all support for it, on both sender and receiver sides. --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 14:40:03 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJ0Kp-0000ym-Hp for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:40:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38352) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ0Kn-0000wR-3K for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:40:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ0Km-0001eC-5V for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:40:01 -0400 Received: from omr1.cc.ipv6.vt.edu ([2607:b400:92:8300:0:c6:2117:b0e]:42354 helo=omr1.cc.vt.edu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ0Km-0001be-0T for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:40:00 -0400 Received: from mr6.cc.vt.edu (mr6.cc.vt.edu [IPv6:2607:b400:92:8500:0:af:2d00:4488]) by omr1.cc.vt.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x3NIdu7t024957 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:39:57 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f197.google.com (mail-qt1-f197.google.com [209.85.160.197]) by mr6.cc.vt.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id x3NIdpjo021800 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:39:56 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f197.google.com with SMTP id e31so15565603qtb.0 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:39:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:date:message-id; bh=Hc4yAC6L9nqARVSSpBSnAkFbnpztOmTpJ3ZQqfjYG0E=; b=qNlrmJ8t0b8JbTZCJf8GQw3XXfze+zF4r9NSHKicpiN0LiTQA75werAKwu5wIGWQz6 0YiZtKAzfcrX4dvmNTfG+oMdYd3L5tjjl1fl7VZ4SmCebsZyHFcYOhMT+fQF40LHluBG 3gx1cElrcuLyVnBGrUJAahY4lOB4KBVs5lQsb3wpgqzmX4TBugqpFVuhkkF7OdsMW7Cc zRCuNqkHSVAEaSuZyDHBKE0DAzYHaJIUne1jaGnfclqRepPWr7LqS/ucqozQd0CA15Sp CUU6Jm773dtUWT/31/vBmeiB/rb24kWqRMJGxZMryqtk3+LHu/NkFsFm/RIiU1ERG0e+ xQag== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVqXlHCGAb1UynBksIfVwuAgmJpgQe3PmnOt5zgom81hvo+/Jb1 D1GR89phZE5ZsQZyusBNmz80/96Mj96pPQbBXJKh8EMAi0/nzv7hTuqRYsNkSz38SDeNzTLcky4 XVmE8lHjDcsItlUhzdW7rTmgHtgI= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:75c7:: with SMTP id z7mr15283872qtq.117.1556044791231; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:39:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw8VUQ7cLRw4uV5GOOj+yrn97AYuFFTokPPiyb9duc96s3DRzR4VSic4j63dufqkE2Nfu53Rg== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:75c7:: with SMTP id z7mr15283848qtq.117.1556044790943; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from turing-police ([2601:5c0:c001:4341::c73]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f14sm1216977qtf.82.2019.04.23.11.39.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Valdis Kletnieks From: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" X-Google-Original-From: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.7+dev To: Robert Elz cc: Ralph Corderoy , nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-reply-to: <24244.1556038868@jinx.noi.kre.to> References: <4344.1556032505@turing-police> <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <554.1555977512@sss.pgh.pa.us> <20190423010824.CC89D13B901@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <20190423123544.3DAFA2152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <24244.1556038868@jinx.noi.kre.to> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:39:48 -0400 Message-ID: <17777.1556044788@turing-police> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 2607:b400:92:8300:0:c6:2117:b0e Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 18:40:02 -0000 On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 00:01:08 +0700, Robert Elz said: > I don't know why fd 3 was wanted to be a dup of stdin, but aside from > that oddity, there's notthing remarkable about the code (no WTF), the > test is just avoiding a (pointless) dup2(3,3). > > Whatever fd 3 was before executing this code, it is closed after it > unless it happened to be what is wanted on stdin. The point is that the fragment of code doesn't actually *know* "it happened to be what is wanted on stdin". For all this code knows, it's a dangling fd that was opened by some library function to talk to dbus or something. From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 16:06:09 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJ1g9-0001ol-M9 for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:06:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46300) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ1g6-0001oY-Px for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:06:08 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ1g5-0002GD-0s for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:06:06 -0400 Received: from omr1.cc.ipv6.vt.edu ([2607:b400:92:8300:0:c6:2117:b0e]:38340 helo=omr1.cc.vt.edu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ1g3-0002Cl-Ei for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:06:04 -0400 Received: from mr3.cc.vt.edu (mr3.cc.vt.edu [IPv6:2607:b400:92:8500:0:7f:b804:6b0a]) by omr1.cc.vt.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x3NK5x3C025327 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:06:00 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f198.google.com (mail-qt1-f198.google.com [209.85.160.198]) by mr3.cc.vt.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id x3NK5sBs007613 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:05:59 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f198.google.com with SMTP id w53so7717259qtj.22 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:05:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:date:message-id; bh=dQMsgLHv5ZeKnBOFgZPN8DX2W5jG7hetSJ211wkEgyc=; b=pNJOH+7AmDIMG9/BOZatPSO+RI2wxjGaC27vtdofPlyJSc8Hm/fdUuBm51VUG5JeE4 dtkjEllnphuO3Z42OeE3qeinvlk2SjUZKpEku6lXjw5RHH/cJZdLOjufndRzv/izLTbi Fj1BBJK8lif9/rY572tifvU5lNzI9hywxWzVxuQTfPeVwHynHEcmbaj4mWDLOC7atQC0 rGzToMy+POxLxDc4twY28YicVwWVF8Zwoil3gnSkvflgz3Qr75TlCrn4bomoBjbyNvLr qCtUV6SF7MemWRKabKN31lXmhcNg9LIw3tl7zwlTLeMGaVPCsGjNTtlADq83c6KfemiT ZLRg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWuCBQIr6hnFw8qSQb7qWdJBwIKYDgerMqIQ68y00pPzwcXwQID Fwuz7vKlYS524Kv10l89OmytfRAgC9U30PrfFSajFOufGMHEWRGA6qUXkdPrVqeEFeGEaW7lEgg ldKPtZj6i/0AAVjfsO4KlA7DgFPU= X-Received: by 2002:a37:8d01:: with SMTP id p1mr21113197qkd.339.1556049954387; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:05:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwTqWpbEhIQnDfiu3GCWAougQRsOY3LCjnVgPQ64kWDu3A+pLNZldVCkNd1krXeiJChlI6G4Q== X-Received: by 2002:a37:8d01:: with SMTP id p1mr21113176qkd.339.1556049954143; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from turing-police ([2601:5c0:c001:4341::c73]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f65sm8310275qkb.83.2019.04.23.13.05.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Valdis Kletnieks From: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" X-Google-Original-From: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.7+dev To: Ken Hornstein cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-reply-to: <20190423173427.C0CB2141747@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> References: <20190423173427.C0CB2141747@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:05:52 -0400 Message-ID: <22327.1556049952@turing-police> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 2607:b400:92:8300:0:c6:2117:b0e Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Removing message/partial support X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 20:06:08 -0000 On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:34:26 -0400, Ken Hornstein said: > As discussed here: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/nmh-workers/2019-02/msg00035.html > > Currently our message/partial support does not work. I believe fixing > it is straightforward, but given the links that David posted in that > thread and my own research, almost no other MUAs support it and it is > probably blocked by most mail providers due to concerns about viruses > and spam. Can anyone think of a reason to keep it? I suggest removing > all support for it, on both sender and receiver sides. I can't remember if I followed up or not, but over on the ietf-822 list there were 3 or 4 products mentioned that had code but shipped with the ability configured disabled. Gnus seems to be the largest user base that would potentially handle a message/partial either incoming or outbound. This implies "It's only of use if you already know a priori that your recipient is running an uncommon mail stack". (Further research shows that I was probably incorrect in saying that exmh can't handle reassembling a message/partial - further looking at the code indicates that if 'mhstore' is able to deal with the message fragments not being in order, it should work, but I haven't tested it. There's zero support for passing -split to 'send'. From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 16:46:53 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJ2JZ-0002Hw-TG for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:46:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48461) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ2JW-0002Hj-Kq for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:46:51 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ2JV-0006K7-OV for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:46:50 -0400 Received: from munnari.coe.psu.ac.th ([2001:3c8:9009:181::2]:63684 helo=munnari.OZ.AU) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ2JU-00065k-6y for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:46:49 -0400 Received: from jinx.noi.kre.to (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by munnari.OZ.AU with ESMTP id x3NKkDiL027024; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 03:46:18 +0700 (ICT) Received: from jinx.noi.kre.to (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jinx.noi.kre.to (8.15.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id x3NKk4Ko016736; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 03:46:04 +0700 (+07) From: Robert Elz To: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" cc: Ralph Corderoy , nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <17777.1556044788@turing-police> References: <17777.1556044788@turing-police> <4344.1556032505@turing-police> <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <554.1555977512@sss.pgh.pa.us> <20190423010824.CC89D13B901@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <20190423123544.3DAFA2152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <24244.1556038868@jinx.noi.kre.to> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 03:46:04 +0700 Message-ID: <15367.1556052364@jinx.noi.kre.to> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2001:3c8:9009:181::2 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 20:46:51 -0000 Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:39:48 -0400 From: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" Message-ID: <17777.1556044788@turing-police> | The point is that the fragment of code doesn't actually *know* "it happened | to be what is wanted on stdin". For all this code knows, it's a dangling fd | that was opened by some library function to talk to dbus or something. ?? fd is deliberately being made stdin (I did not look at the code to see where that comes from, but I can only assume that it comes from somewhere). fd is also made to be fd 3. If it is good enough to be stdin, it is good enough to be 3 as well, if there is (or once was) some reason this is important. kre From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 17:17:51 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJ2nX-0000fB-Ac for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:17:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42133) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ2nU-0000Ue-RH for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:17:49 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ2gm-0005C7-UF for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:10:54 -0400 Received: from pellegrino.bradfordfamily.org ([208.53.44.231]:50168) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ2gl-0004rW-1B for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:10:52 -0400 Received: (qmail 54964 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2019 21:10:34 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO arnor.bradfordfamily.org) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 23 Apr 2019 21:10:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 28893 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2019 20:52:18 -0000 Received: from angmar.bradfordfamily.org (166.70.45.29) by edoras.bradfordfamily.org with SMTP; 23 Apr 2019 20:52:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 37111 invoked by uid 1000); 23 Apr 2019 20:52:18 -0000 Date: 23 Apr 2019 14:52:18 -0600 Message-ID: <20190423145218.43515.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> From: "Andy Bradford" Mail-Reply-To: amb-1472650868-xmhe@bradfords.org To: "Paul Vixie" Cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailer: exmh version 2.7.2 01/07/2005 with nmh-1.6 References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <20190423121046.ED6E42152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <14d1bf37-03e6-1b08-6651-368f50ce10fc@redbarn.org> In-reply-to: <14d1bf37-03e6-1b08-6651-368f50ce10fc@redbarn.org> Comments: In-reply-to Paul Vixie message dated "Tue, 23 Apr 2019 05:59:05 -0700." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 208.53.44.231 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 21:17:50 -0000 Thus said Paul Vixie on Tue, 23 Apr 2019 05:59:05 -0700: > to that end, i propose that we treat any open descriptor N>2 at the > time of an exec() to be a bug, which is to be fixed by setting > O_CLOEXEC at time of creation. What impact will such a decision have on tools like setlock which open a filedescriptor, obtain an exclusive lock, and then exec a process? For example, I may use something like the following in a script to prevent multiple processes from incorporating email: setlock /tmp/mit.lock inc +MyIncTmp ... Thanks, Andy -- TAI64 timestamp: 400000005cbf7b26 From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 17:42:29 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJ3BN-0003ht-IW for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:42:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60802) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ3BL-0003hn-E4 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:42:28 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ3BG-0003ow-HR for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:42:25 -0400 Received: from omr2.cc.ipv6.vt.edu ([2607:b400:92:8400:0:33:fb76:806e]:46842 helo=omr2.cc.vt.edu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ3BG-0003mf-CF for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:42:22 -0400 Received: from mr4.cc.vt.edu (mr4.cc.vt.edu [IPv6:2607:b400:92:8300:0:7b:e2b1:6a29]) by omr2.cc.vt.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x3NLgJ3N029931 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:42:19 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f200.google.com (mail-qt1-f200.google.com [209.85.160.200]) by mr4.cc.vt.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id x3NLgEpm018520 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:42:19 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f200.google.com with SMTP id j9so9663644qtp.17 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:42:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:date:message-id; bh=I7Ym/q3OVNql2KVbz8fuiFp5WSLiXGDx2NcQUSd7cbk=; b=LGATWhCWbhSymVWy7REe98V/Ww9RbyNWMs7YfzXWIrgY7+Wz5pDH3Rr0ysXTDpYOV9 CFbEKa8gxeTm5l4SLqrapYoZq5tOPDyUUpfzLX8V1fI1JpLHeOnpoyaHqdWRgCt0baT+ uhPM46LSIyOH2buRK26rgSTAvtJPbbOkeQutxffayOGO9qONPjYvmu3ME+fOpe5LQ/ct 8qszkccNFEMjaJjweciLCgzraTm1VIjGPk3mTJwb15or2iSZAkyp96NUfN/ke6cVx+/0 jvLs4R0lPr/fZLH+8HfdwcLlvCpoaWEnuutdUkaf8I4e6Pz+xmhKkjwUnd6wu9J6edYW bYWg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWTsUqjfufB1ROuYm0WwKk9C2a9RhR5G7A6HiJC2hW07dQQxXBG Epd9McHnUPTGjEpyCurBNlMZ+9ELuRMAPYQaBXFAeGIEwNqMKru70F6q4UBbspYMY8AFsAmhVWz ibmgf3cDdG7Tn6FHdXHqLuHHpfMg= X-Received: by 2002:a37:2c06:: with SMTP id s6mr20845577qkh.142.1556055734414; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:42:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqynu4e3TB5R2dZVJ1bWwzAKbtsZZ/JgvtRIyJEXRwVr2ABW/gE0wPPNp5RJQ1wnhDCkpJdyAQ== X-Received: by 2002:a37:2c06:: with SMTP id s6mr20845563qkh.142.1556055734232; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from turing-police ([2601:5c0:c001:4341::c73]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k45sm8678387qtk.63.2019.04.23.14.42.12 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Valdis Kletnieks From: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" X-Google-Original-From: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.7+dev To: Robert Elz cc: Ralph Corderoy , nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-reply-to: <15367.1556052364@jinx.noi.kre.to> References: <17777.1556044788@turing-police> <4344.1556032505@turing-police> <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <554.1555977512@sss.pgh.pa.us> <20190423010824.CC89D13B901@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <20190423123544.3DAFA2152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <24244.1556038868@jinx.noi.kre.to> <15367.1556052364@jinx.noi.kre.to> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:42:12 -0400 Message-ID: <27994.1556055732@turing-police> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 2607:b400:92:8400:0:33:fb76:806e Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 21:42:28 -0000 On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 03:46:04 +0700, Robert Elz said: > fd is also made to be fd 3. > > If it is good enough to be stdin, it is good enough to be 3 as well, > if there is (or once was) some reason this is important. Derp. -ENOCAFFEINE :) From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 19:43:02 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJ542-0005ai-He for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 19:43:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34552) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ53z-0005W5-90 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 19:43:00 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ4we-0008Tz-8Q for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 19:35:26 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp1.pobox.com ([64.147.108.70]:53579) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ4wc-0008GE-BK for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 19:35:22 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp1.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2798143FB5; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 19:35:11 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; s=sasl; bh=ClJWGfyXDf/Zu0PAUbs/84k9aEE=; b=IzVlV6h/ c/T/Mve105+xU+cxiFPFW84VOFmiV7UF7A+G/6cN8BJhDfxHOoQzhelO1ju4U4nY VVQQVGeCSZ533v0c8XXFv4RvRiZ+pFfEUOCwbwjisIKlzSRQH7UfHIBqsLB45TMD ZwIlTr6LA9L3P84aeoOKQcQrCYXmOtZjpZA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=ScJ1nCt0cQKRVvki+8nKcEK9ajAPXXTTeC L8usZM6rJdLJ1K9HWIK3euywYOiI0VK7mdH7WaxCJ4Tdkx3d3lIONaVac8Pr4EL5 L5pjigEpg+VpkxIZhxNlARkYumACZAliWDVIcbi2hz8WB8GGug7Z5cP1R4qP+xSD TCkJbbV2o= Received: from pb-smtp1.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA88B143FB4; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 19:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from paradise-falls.internal (unknown [96.241.66.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7C8B5143FB3; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 19:35:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hornstein To: amb-1472650868-xmhe@bradfords.org cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <20190423145218.43515.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <20190423121046.ED6E42152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <14d1bf37-03e6-1b08-6651-368f50ce10fc@redbarn.org> <20190423145218.43515.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 19:35:11 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 6FFE393C-6620-11E9-B1C9-1646B3964D18-90216062!pb-smtp1.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190423233511.EA88B143FB4@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 64.147.108.70 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 23:43:00 -0000 >> to that end, i propose that we treat any open descriptor N>2 at the >> time of an exec() to be a bug, which is to be fixed by setting >> O_CLOEXEC at time of creation. > >What impact will such a decision have on tools like setlock which open a >filedescriptor, obtain an exclusive lock, and then exec a process? For >example, I may use something like the following in a script to prevent >multiple processes from incorporating email: > >setlock /tmp/mit.lock inc +MyIncTmp ... Well, my reading of the setlock man page (assuming this is the FreeBSD one) is that it is not depending on a _descriptor_ to be passed down (I don't even know how that would work), but in fact it is opening a particular _file_ and locking it. But let's pretend that it actually did need to have a descriptor passed down to nmh programs, and the locking needed to extend to any children that inc forked (that's the critical case here). Today, depending on which code path was executed, that would either a) work fine (because we don't close any descriptors) or b) fail miserably (because we close all descriptors above 2, but sometimes maybe 3). My change makes it so we no longer close all descriptors when creating a child process (in the majority of cases we didn't). The particular change I have started implementing is that any descriptors _created by nmh_ will be marked as close-on-exec, so they will no longer be available to child processes (well, technically, child processes that have called exec(), but you know what I mean). For example, let's say inc(1) is talking to a POP server. Before, the network connection to the POP server was available to programs that inc(1) happened to fork off. One possible example would be the add-hook program if you happened to define one (the hook code never closed extra file descriptors). I think most people would agree that this is probably not desirable. Now that the network descriptors are marked as close-on-exec, child processes (like the hooks code) never see them. Even if the hooks are not doing anything malicious, it's easy to imagine possible problems with a network socket ending up in their address space. If the hooks code forks off a long-running process, for example, that could leave a network socket open that nmh had considered closed and could potentially cause problems if (for example) the POP server expected you to close the connection before it allowed another one. There are tons of examples like this in nmh; plenty of child processes are created with descriptors open. Most of these are for files, but clearly at best that's sloppy and at worst is dangerous. I can see this only getting worse if we get IMAP support or additional plugin interfaces. My eventual goal is to make it so every new descriptor created _by nmh_ has close-on-exec set by default. This wouldn't affect descriptors inherited by nmh programs (because they wouldn't know about them) or descriptors created by library functions (nmh wouldn't know about them either); hopefully any descriptors created internally by a library function would be marked properly (a quick check shows that this is not an unfounded assumption; at least on MacOS X the descriptor created by getutxent() is marked as close-on-exec). As a side note, I see that documentation for the hooks interface has never made it into a man page; anyone willing to rectify that? --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 21:27:44 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJ6hM-0003Ff-6p for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 21:27:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37818) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ6hJ-0002zo-KK for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 21:27:42 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ6Tx-0002ub-VX for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 21:13:54 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com ([64.147.108.71]:64099) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ6Tx-0002tP-NE for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 21:13:53 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0488F13E824 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 21:13:52 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; s=sasl; bh=kfm8Nm77ouVp9WmzfsXp1PkDVkA=; b=ZkJEXk86 PgsYD/aFd3iwDoMekUeuiufpo/R9I9Q5rAssX7pld29aMGIkigczlb6Ha0aPLyRA R12DViohgBf27+wPjSNJbxd9qHMmdl2iAkKkeiOJaNV7ILy9rW4y1n13LINyVcst Y/j69mOfFJjeCIIk9B+tmYbf4y3QayJ4oZ4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=mW4QJUmIZQXPL7aYKOW5vIggVqgdf56nDl vy0SB/1sLST2HuXlgpmWEtmchW4k2XnadGYifHZwgHWITv7JN0rtYxiRVj0aJCHg yB4++dA8YzUU8n7XqNjUaxUYBPp/Zj9Llia13kxzzfQeKN2HWhIQhm/mV+iDEcVx +if0ZsabI= Received: from pb-smtp2.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFBC413E823 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 21:13:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from paradise-falls.internal (unknown [96.241.66.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7A7A413E822 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 21:13:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <22327.1556049952@turing-police> References: <20190423173427.C0CB2141747@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <22327.1556049952@turing-police> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 21:13:51 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 389447E4-662E-11E9-8BA9-DF19F34BB12D-90216062!pb-smtp2.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190424011351.EFBC413E823@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 64.147.108.71 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Removing message/partial support X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 01:27:42 -0000 >I can't remember if I followed up or not, but over on the ietf-822 list >there were 3 or 4 products mentioned that had code but shipped with >the ability configured disabled. Gnus seems to be the largest user >base that would potentially handle a message/partial either incoming or >outbound. This implies "It's only of use if you already know a priori >that your recipient is running an uncommon mail stack". You didn't mention it, but I went over and looked. When the only one that seems to ship with the ability do it is Gnus, then I think that tells me everything I need to know. I'm going to yank this all out unless someone can come up with a plausible reason to keep it. (And I see Ned weighed in on the base64 discussion we had a while ago; I interpret his response as "it's perfectly fine to simply just stop decoding at that point, emitting a warning is recommended but not required"). --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 22:37:29 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJ7mq-00035G-Qd for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:37:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60981) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ7mm-000339-KV for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:37:26 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ7ml-00026B-Ky for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:37:24 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp21.pobox.com ([173.228.157.53]:63655) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ7ml-00022W-E6 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:37:23 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp21.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp21.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8A0A6153D for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:37:20 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kenh@pobox.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type:date:message-id; s=sasl; bh=H bdnY1ZHDPhmRiUm4aoja9n+3r4=; b=LIFIgt2IqCVbn5eOkS6M1zUu6VtQmYAVh bVsOFQ/0FEkuTzJnmZD0Y91Abd2ImT5OJdQE7PvKEQJHU7RmzvtALq+feaZFHNmm 6PUawOWZqCq5aYV2cviXX093GV/EIBKmnwxiSkJC4558Z5AUHnWgHDvaUD3Btm4c zmD05ZbdEw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :mime-version:content-type:date:message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=K3d 71oTnGCx+TX11JmkvPlMLi2Vgoxg8dwmlUb4yfeI2xV3vjwKek9Z1cU+Q/8T2pmr NTsjyfFdLWZT2+NGZaZPnK/srraFbCFeES8KQVVMuF1cw3C57QfAvne9JV9fd6LZ sOxbQzVmfh5zupMbHYYfqSJH98yEf8+W75nRgShQ= Received: from pb-smtp21.sea.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp21.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FE576153C for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:37:20 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kenh@pobox.com) Received: from paradise-falls.internal (unknown [96.241.66.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp21.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 291466153B for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:37:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kenh@pobox.com) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 22:37:16 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: E0D167BA-6639-11E9-AA50-EE24A11ADF13-90216062!pb-smtp21.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190424023720.9FE576153C@pb-smtp21.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 173.228.157.53 Subject: [nmh-workers] Content caching code X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 02:37:27 -0000 As long as we're getting rid of stuff ... Does anyone use the content caching code? (See mhstore(1) for details). First, it turns out that when mhn was split into mhstore, mhshow, and mhlist, there was never a call to cache_all_messages() (the entry point into mhcachesbr.c) put in those individual programs, so in essence it would only ever store something in a cache if you called mhn (which has been deprecated for approximately forever). There are some calls to find_cache() in mhparse.c, but since there is nothing in the normal case that stores something in the cache it would never be used. Also, the security properties of a public cache seem pretty scary to me in this day and age (if you used one, and since the code mostly seems to not work I doubt anyone does, but I've been proven wrong before). I propose we get rid of it all; clearly no one has missed it. Thoughts? --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 23 23:34:29 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJ8g1-0005jO-7G for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 23:34:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46383) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ8fx-0005gO-At for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 23:34:26 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ8dz-0006xu-11 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 23:32:23 -0400 Received: from munnari.coe.psu.ac.th ([2001:3c8:9009:181::2]:63552 helo=munnari.OZ.AU) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJ8dy-00061y-Ak for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 23:32:22 -0400 Received: from jinx.noi.kre.to (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by munnari.OZ.AU with ESMTP id x3O3VKLT009184; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 10:31:21 +0700 (ICT) Received: from jinx.noi.kre.to (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jinx.noi.kre.to (8.15.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id x3O3V9IX028835; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 10:31:10 +0700 (+07) From: Robert Elz To: Ken Hornstein cc: amb-1472650868-xmhe@bradfords.org, nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <20190423233511.EA88B143FB4@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> References: <20190423233511.EA88B143FB4@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <20190423121046.ED6E42152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <14d1bf37-03e6-1b08-6651-368f50ce10fc@redbarn.org> <20190423145218.43515.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 10:31:09 +0700 Message-ID: <19404.1556076669@jinx.noi.kre.to> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2001:3c8:9009:181::2 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 03:34:26 -0000 Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 19:35:11 -0400 From: Ken Hornstein Message-ID: <20190423233511.EA88B143FB4@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> | There are tons of examples like this in nmh; plenty of child processes | are created with descriptors open. It is worth remembering that MH was written before close-on-exec was invented ... I suspect that much of what you're seeing is simply a result of that, rather than anything else in particular. Using close-on-exec sounds like the right way to me, and if it turns out that some particular uses require a fd to be passed down (which usually also requires some arg to tell the child which fd that is) then those can be fixed when discovered. kre From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Apr 24 06:16:00 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJEwa-0006tm-DN for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:16:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33012) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJEwU-0006r3-H2 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:15:55 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJEwT-0003ZR-Bp for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:15:54 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:52372) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJEwT-0003Pz-6q for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:15:53 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 392081A2790 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:15:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 812CC2154F for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:15:47 +0100 (BST) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:15:47 +0100 Message-Id: <20190424101547.812CC2154F@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: [nmh-workers] Old MHs. X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 10:15:56 -0000 Hi, When Googling today, I found http://web.mit.edu/source-8.1/third/mh/papers/mh4/MHCHANGES which looks to be the same as the nmh repository's nmh/docs/historical/mh-6.8.5/papers/mh4/MHCHANGES. I wondered if there's anything else squirrelled away inside mit.edu, but any attempt to edit the URL re-directs me to a error that I haven't supplied a client certificate. I thought others here might either know this field has already been harvested, or how to browse what other old bits of MH they have in case there's some we don't. --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Apr 24 06:48:42 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJFSE-0005Sj-2v for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:48:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42693) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJFSB-0005SV-1e for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:48:40 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJFS9-0007Ez-Nx for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:48:38 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:53804) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJFS9-0007EU-IQ for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:48:37 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4BDE1A240A for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 06:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DBD72154F for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:48:36 +0100 (BST) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-reply-to: <20190423145736.4AFE64F3F3@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <20190423121046.ED6E42152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <20190423135623.41107139820@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> <20190423142038.1F320201F4@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <20190423145736.4AFE64F3F3@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:48:36 +0100 Message-Id: <20190424104836.1DBD72154F@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 10:48:40 -0000 Hi Ken, > > > they called getdtablesize() on Linux, which it seems returns a > > > smaller number than getrlimit(). > > > > That's surprising. I thought getdtablesize() was effectively > > > > return getrlimit(RLIMIT_NOFILE, &ru) < 0 ? OPEN_MAX : ru.rlim_cur= ; > > Hey, I don't make the news, I just report it. If you look at the > bug fix referenced in that thread, the "fix" was to make sure that Linu= x > wasn't detected as SVR4. That makes it so it calls getdtablesize() ins= tead > of getrlimit(). My understanding of getdtablesize() matches yours, but > I can't see how that "fix" could make this problem better otherwise. screen-4.6.2 has void closeallfiles(except) int except; { int f; #ifdef SVR4 struct rlimit rl; if ((getrlimit(RLIMIT_NOFILE, &rl) =3D=3D 0) && rl.rlim_max !=3D RL= IM_INFINITY) f =3D rl.rlim_max; else #endif /* SVR4 */ #if defined(SYSV) && defined(NOFILE) && !defined(ISC) f =3D NOFILE; #else /* SYSV && !ISC */ f =3D getdtablesize(); #endif /* SYSV && !ISC */ while (--f > 2) if (f !=3D except) close(f); } When wrongly identifying Linux as SVR4, it uses rl.rlim_max whereas getdtablesize() uses ru.rlim_cur. Here, there's a =C3=97512 difference. $ cat nfd.c #include #include #include #include int main(void) { struct rlimit rl; printf("get()\t%d\n", getrlimit(RLIMIT_NOFILE, &rl)); printf("rl.cur\t%lu\n", rl.rlim_cur); printf("rl.max\t%lu\n", rl.rlim_max); printf("INF\t%#lx\n", RLIM_INFINITY); printf("NOFILE\t%d\n", NOFILE); printf("table()\t%d\n", getdtablesize()); return 0; } $ $ ./a.out get() 0 rl.cur 1024 rl.max 524288 INF 0xffffffffffffffff NOFILE 256 table() 1024 $ --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Apr 24 11:05:58 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJJTC-00080K-8l for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:05:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52999) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJJT9-0007zf-Ch for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:05:56 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJJT8-0004mW-3M for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:05:55 -0400 Received: from pellegrino.bradfordfamily.org ([208.53.44.231]:63257) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJJT7-0004hq-LB for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:05:53 -0400 Received: (qmail 45164 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2019 15:05:47 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO arnor.bradfordfamily.org) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 24 Apr 2019 15:05:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 91705 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2019 03:50:43 -0000 Received: from angmar.bradfordfamily.org (166.70.45.29) by edoras.bradfordfamily.org with SMTP; 24 Apr 2019 03:50:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 68189 invoked by uid 1000); 24 Apr 2019 03:50:43 -0000 Date: 23 Apr 2019 21:50:43 -0600 Message-ID: <20190423215043.14768.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> From: "Andy Bradford" Mail-Reply-To: amb-1472650868-xmhe@bradfords.org To: "Ken Hornstein" Cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailer: exmh version 2.7.2 01/07/2005 with nmh-1.6 References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <20190423121046.ED6E42152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <14d1bf37-03e6-1b08-6651-368f50ce10fc@redbarn.org> <20190423145218.43515.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> <20190423233511.EA88B143FB4@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> In-reply-to: <20190423233511.EA88B143FB4@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> Comments: In-reply-to Ken Hornstein message dated "Tue, 23 Apr 2019 19:35:11 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 208.53.44.231 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 15:05:56 -0000 Thus said Ken Hornstein on Tue, 23 Apr 2019 19:35:11 -0400: > >setlock /tmp/mit.lock inc +MyIncTmp ... > > Well, my reading of the setlock man page (assuming this is the FreeBSD > one) is that it is not depending on a _descriptor_ to be passed down > (I don't even know how that would work), but in fact it is opening a > particular _file_ and locking it. Sorry, I should have referenced which setlock I intended. I didn't realize there was more than one setlock. I specifically had in mind setlock from daemontools (see http://cr.yp.to/daemontools.html for more information), though it is not the only command that implements this interface. Basically, it opens a file and attempts to obtain an exclusive lock the file descriptor for that file. If/when it successfully obtains the exclusive lock it then uses exec() to execute a new process, and that new process inherits the open file descriptor. As long as that process leaves the file descriptor open, it continues to hold the lock on said file which prevents any similarly invoked processes from running concurrently. The lock goes away either when the file descriptor is intentionally closed, or the process exits or crashes. > My change makes it so we no longer close all descriptors when creating > a child process (in the majority of cases we didn't). The particular > change I have started implementing is that any descriptors _created by > nmh_ will be marked as close-on-exec, so they will no longer be available > to child processes (well, technically, child processes that have called > exec(), but you know what I mean). Yes, I see what you mean---also, I didn't realize that the approach in nmh was so varied, but then, I haven't looked at the sources in-depth. This change sounds less drastic than I intially thought. I've run into problems before (most notably with Bash) where after setlock does exec() the new process will close inherited open file descriptors which basically breaks this particular way of resource control (sometimes referred to as Bernstein chaining). Thanks for the clarification; it does sound like it will be an improvement. Andy -- TAI64 timestamp: 400000005cbfdd37 From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Apr 24 11:46:37 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJK6X-0002hF-NL for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:46:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33183) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJK6T-0002fr-2M for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:46:33 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJK6R-0003KL-Ut for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:46:33 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp1.pobox.com ([64.147.108.70]:60176) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJK6R-0003Jv-PR for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:46:31 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp1.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25CB31498C8 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:46:29 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type:date:message-id; s=sasl; bh=9 Apj4Nq2Ap0fPe4GhVJXe0/yFTE=; b=c7TeVXRl0qCKVeuFjKLFYwAHFxPEO+8tj lqoP38+QqRoy8KpUnlIaaLEsMuDTpnuIFhZUgH8qs/KYF4BNkqUFdCYcTTW8krjf oWViPBFGx+OpIe45N/yEPEqw8acpkerDWd1cFMuKMHbE5jBGhf8swc5NTixw82u2 5CPLWhjj7A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :mime-version:content-type:date:message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=YbB ZGRh+41VHsdmXhkLn/rrrvk8L7UVx28PJ3SQBmTQ0oMq7fGhTrlMCSfs/XCqKwfw AjBD1GewiTrZSoXdYsyI5/alR/nhex9tpzAk4sLESGvnYoqilZpU+sBKKrLkhf8k aYdgXKdnjrcx47crQXnWTYhj1f0jdWnInMky1kC0= Received: from pb-smtp1.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C9131498C6 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:46:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zoolander.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (unknown [134.207.12.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A9CBE1498C5 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:46:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:46:28 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 1FE58206-66A8-11E9-A644-1646B3964D18-90216062!pb-smtp1.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190424154629.1C9131498C6@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 64.147.108.70 Subject: [nmh-workers] test-scan passes for me, but is in XFAIL_TESTS X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 15:46:34 -0000 In commit d9b33232b6, test-scan was added to XFAIL_TESTS. But for me it succeeds. Looking closer ... I guess this is because MacOS X lacks a "/dev/full", which I didn't even know was a thing. And I guess this is all related to dealing with Bug #50925. Since this test doesn't fail on all platforms, is everyone ok with me just commenting out this test for now and moving test-scan back to TESTS? I am trying to make it so the test suite passes successfully on MacOS X after a long while of NOT passing, and this is the last remaining problem :-) --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Apr 24 13:28:24 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJLh2-0001KV-Ge for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:28:24 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56735) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJLgz-0001Ch-FW for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:28:22 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJLZX-0000UJ-JJ for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:20:41 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:42420) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJLZV-0000TP-F0 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:20:37 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [87.112.12.90]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE88E1A2C0E for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:20:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36126214EE for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 18:20:35 +0100 (BST) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-reply-to: <20190424170846.4EFC6206A7@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> References: <20190424170846.4EFC6206A7@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 18:20:35 +0100 Message-Id: <20190424172035.36126214EE@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] [nmh-commits] [SCM] The nmh Mail Handling System branch, master, updated. 1.7-branchpoint-531-gef0725f X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 17:28:22 -0000 Hi, > commit 43d9833bf1dcf38c7892a23951bf1d968028a15e > Author: Ken Hornstein > Date: Wed Apr 24 10:25:18 2019 -0400 > > Removal of Content-MD5 support > =20 > The generation and verification of Content-MD5 headers is no longer > done. FINALLY. Bah. --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Apr 24 13:54:50 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJM6c-0001aQ-Iq for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:54:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33517) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJM6Z-0001G9-UE for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:54:48 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJLtp-0006zP-8m for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:41:38 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com ([64.147.108.71]:56375) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJLto-0006xc-Rn for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:41:37 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 454C3144B7B for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:41:34 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; s=sasl; bh=9euzSugyGgPVR4CouCEBeP542eo=; b=nfx4KHjs TJXTeoRgZ4vfvLiriD8xZm1SIx6A4+PcOV1/Av8xY3UHPOyJJx2WnUBjk0qz7EXY /h81/3C90o+YG1ggq9yrcgoBgwGc0FbXHAKZWhPq8sdALNKMBcbt8iTAX5hBMlyu DiGfGD8m+reKjAegrfE3onWsp3bQtas6qXQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=OMV0jK5vmhHsz7EhPVz2k7Vb/RuZPGixq7 0CFpMftZhCuKxbt59gJ0bnbk2T3MmtELOu1FOQiuYekGJsR0GMku/MUTEwr8NazG oy/rnwc99/kepFs0fKYJfZUdVR8jfwMPAyDqwGWJufVqjxraRA/341wcBam0h2sw WxYl2vVjc= Received: from pb-smtp2.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CF26144B7A for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zoolander.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (unknown [134.207.12.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 824B1144B79 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:41:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <20190424172035.36126214EE@orac.inputplus.co.uk> References: <20190424170846.4EFC6206A7@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20190424172035.36126214EE@orac.inputplus.co.uk> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:41:32 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 33806DCA-66B8-11E9-8369-DF19F34BB12D-90216062!pb-smtp2.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190424174134.3CF26144B7A@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 64.147.108.71 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] [nmh-commits] [SCM] The nmh Mail Handling System branch, master, updated. 1.7-branchpoint-531-gef0725f X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 17:54:49 -0000 >> Removal of Content-MD5 support >> >> The generation and verification of Content-MD5 headers is no longer >> done. FINALLY. > >Bah. Geez Ralph, we talked about this SO many times, the last time back in August when I laid out what I think was a fair set of arguments why this should be done: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/nmh-workers/2018-07/msg00003.html And I asked for people to make their case for saving it; nobody did. Yeah, I'm only finally getting around to it now, but looking back through the mailing list archives I feel it was fairly litigated. --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Apr 24 13:56:03 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJM7n-0002ek-QB for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:56:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33974) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJM7l-0002cW-80 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:56:02 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJM7j-0004gG-Nt for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:56:01 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com ([64.147.108.71]:64243) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJM7j-0004df-EJ for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:55:59 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6295B144D74 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:55:57 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type:date:message-id; s=sasl; bh=R vw/fE3fTU0hdgA6GSJZiQOUjao=; b=yOFe/c0ynTdmQWw58IzWlb4EwlTY+1NAI xlBv6uWia3T/ATzn2bXVSaaJLdasuYCEAXEZT/digsefzmF+O8i8BtXG+iXjdkZf qM8wGfGs42cLCSW+qTaW0OF6DBqPj7X8hWbo9uxH/hT/Pqv9EbMhnlWovMt8XjXw EiKIrVzc7M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :mime-version:content-type:date:message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=jAk P034I4iP+TsJbthW9o2eo7Sql60E/raephHTppCI77f5MBfbr7/eZjp1CaRdGP5A WMWyGlVh58EzFTNQxDvwsVb4JiKkPC7VABEwhQbV1cUbUE9FL/lIXgDUdzXbYPnE h9u+dKeQlPySwcisX6kqnVDhH3kiq+KYOvJMVThY= Received: from pb-smtp2.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59C33144D73 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:55:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zoolander.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (unknown [134.207.12.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C65E5144D71 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:55:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:55:56 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 360EA80C-66BA-11E9-998D-DF19F34BB12D-90216062!pb-smtp2.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190424175557.59C33144D73@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 64.147.108.71 Subject: [nmh-workers] Thinking about a 1.8 release X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 17:56:02 -0000 Everyone, I've finally got some time to do some nmh work, and I've been doing some cleanup/bug fixes/trawling the mailing list for a number of "I've meant to do that" things that have fallen by the wayside over the last year or so. I've been getting the itch to once again do the Long Fabled Great MIME re-write, but before THAT happens ... I am wondering if it makes sense to think about a 1.8 release, to deal with some not-so-great bugs that have popped up since 1.7.1 came out. Thoughts? --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Apr 24 19:14:13 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJR5h-0000Fe-T5 for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 19:14:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41536) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJR5f-0000FO-V7 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 19:14:12 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJR5f-0003gZ-3Z for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 19:14:11 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f171.google.com ([209.85.160.171]:35640) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJR5e-0003eP-Vm for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 19:14:11 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f171.google.com with SMTP id l17so3211854qtp.2 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 16:14:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:date:message-id; bh=m8ahGr/TVt1zQjUSGlvDPKe6C8O3SYjup7kDa9AIRSA=; b=DEIQu3Rw1PQdHUhgthCid5XdMmxNUJqnP87HeUNLaB62sygNi3W+doN8youvOQkpTr bKACf7QLZueME9n7Jf7VfAzF7SgKiCS5N1wAdfhA475tUvwuDQNrJyK15vnmadIwui+v vdFfwdWP9KlVXINkCwA9EVhxha9UPk2F8TYIUG1iLVtkTNPNjxW72k5mOJe43myjROmX NnH1j1m7dVuau/bDcLxiWz7Qq1zJlrr9tQI7ebifn/g1hiNvG/CdSN2VUNWEXA/+hMYJ CbHmKWhLRdbgzNFalB3OBJZTTF5Azt1SCA9YeYgihi4T3feOjQUZw3TK1URzuHGKe6n5 Kl3g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUI/vtGZ1UJRvHppj/z16G7fWPTDO9cPpisvBClvoC5SRo+gqxU gA479jiGf/HGEzZ9R9OsgGtkx6GrwY8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyJDZZdzXYG7tEsmdFaMiIfNULKhKxFb+QsIGssXAcHly/8foZGdiQnFAVSZHRxcVQOh/8oCw== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3286:: with SMTP id z6mr18318837qta.128.1556147647213; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 16:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stl.localdomain ([2601:18f:902:7700::3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g15sm12971216qta.31.2019.04.24.16.14.05 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Wed, 24 Apr 2019 16:14:06 -0700 (PDT) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: David Levine In-Reply-To: my message of Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:46:28 -0400 References: <20190424154629.1C9131498C6@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 19:14:04 -0400 Message-ID: <6737-1556147644.985398@kVre.SF5e.J2He> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.160.171 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] test-scan passes for me, but is in XFAIL_TESTS X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 23:14:12 -0000 Ken wrote: > Since this test doesn't fail on all platforms, is everyone ok with me > just commenting out this test for now and moving test-scan back to > TESTS? Done. David From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Apr 24 19:57:09 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJRlF-0008F9-13 for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 19:57:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47955) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJRlB-00085T-LX for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 19:57:06 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJRbs-0004uG-NP for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 19:47:30 -0400 Received: from mail-yw1-f47.google.com ([209.85.161.47]:43987) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJRbr-0004sH-Dk for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 19:47:28 -0400 Received: by mail-yw1-f47.google.com with SMTP id j66so7636308ywc.10 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 16:47:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7aaJ3pITgUPBxWF2isTMCSB1LmflGJA4zTgvBcP46IY=; b=sOEbPPPuBqQ8gpdNAjuQLjwQrAFiJ2xhoHiMFIyH8OcZQvdo7AXieEM5DC0O+cTJH5 ghz4Lix7PUuMeRFc70LaOSmZg0yopenm9jBbrS6Ksx8R1i+fbUTE0QGwIhhruSBrhCO9 Icu4Em4ugh8JN24UlaENObg7JLJgSIfRTO53rwRIG1VWYq40RH18QhUPJ3/VROiPfMyy oPg7Kd/D58BhvbG3GnsHEpwgfcrVQJBlb7OCiQ9Y/vWpSo/PYT3d7MeN6jv/R6FTibT4 +qtXHAtiyJRaN6gZILmE6juYvsc3FFyF/FGl2RfScFqfvc5i1lNQZ5puI79pGdtXFKwA F81Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXQA+/eqMgYux5ulpQpcz+5gFmlKeF2JoPOVfy3u1rRvhaLnEZp Ikr9eWpOP7dVJzDylb4m0UvvUpsnXSZuKh/wc8k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy1oLBVHIHwfLcGsN+OevjSxFjVYCQyQJlvVYWJbXjmFocTKIm/pmA6OQcICgK3RF0+RhEHql80dHA+u0nShIk= X-Received: by 2002:a0d:d48e:: with SMTP id w136mr14186854ywd.44.1556149644523; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 16:47:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190424101547.812CC2154F@orac.inputplus.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <20190424101547.812CC2154F@orac.inputplus.co.uk> From: chad Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 16:47:12 -0700 Message-ID: To: Ralph Corderoy Cc: nmh workers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c77edd05874f52d9" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.161.47 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Old MHs. X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 23:57:07 -0000 --000000000000c77edd05874f52d9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" FWIW, 8.1 is the version of Athena, MIT's campus computing system. The oldest version that I can find that's reachable outside of MIT (using stuff.mit.edu/afs, a general public-AFS to public-web gateway) is 7.7, which gives: https://stuff.mit.edu/afs/athena/astaff/source/src-7.7/third/supported/mh.6.8/ This looks like it has the same version of the older MH docs as the link you found. Hope that helps, ~Chad On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 3:18 AM Ralph Corderoy wrote: > Hi, > > When Googling today, I found > http://web.mit.edu/source-8.1/third/mh/papers/mh4/MHCHANGES which looks > to be the same as the nmh repository's > nmh/docs/historical/mh-6.8.5/papers/mh4/MHCHANGES. I wondered if > there's anything else squirrelled away inside mit.edu, but any attempt > to edit the URL re-directs me to a error that I haven't supplied a > client certificate. > > I thought others here might either know this field has already been > harvested, or how to browse what other old bits of MH they have in case > there's some we don't. > > -- > Cheers, Ralph. > > -- > nmh-workers > https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers > --000000000000c77edd05874f52d9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FWIW, 8.1 is the version of Athena, MIT's campus compu= ting system. The oldest version that I can find that's reachable outsid= e of MIT (using stuff.mit.edu/afs,= a general public-AFS to public-web gateway) is 7.7, which gives:

<= /div>
This looks like it has the same version of the older MH docs a= s the link you found.

Hope that helps,
~= Chad


On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 3:18 AM Ralph Corderoy <= ;ralph@inputplus.co.uk> wro= te:
Hi,

When Googling today, I found
http://web.mit.edu/source-8.1/third/mh/pa= pers/mh4/MHCHANGES which looks
to be the same as the nmh repository's
nmh/docs/historical/mh-6.8.5/papers/mh4/MHCHANGES.=C2=A0 I wondered if
there's anything else squirrelled away inside mit.edu, but any attempt
to edit the URL re-directs me to a error that I haven't supplied a
client certificate.

I thought others here might either know this field has already been
harvested, or how to browse what other old bits of MH they have in case
there's some we don't.

--
Cheers, Ralph.

--
nmh-workers
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-w= orkers
--000000000000c77edd05874f52d9-- From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Apr 24 20:23:08 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJSAO-0004qo-Hy for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 20:23:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51615) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJSAL-0004T3-KV for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 20:23:06 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJRtb-00037Y-Sd for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 20:05:50 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-x633.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::633]:38908) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJRtZ-00030K-AA for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 20:05:45 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-x633.google.com with SMTP id f36so10098489plb.5 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 17:05:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cathet-us.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:comments :mime-version:content-id:date:message-id; bh=nnv8Zr4cbxnyhvOSMr0Vm8LZkz6fvGvnVAK3zeJ1++4=; b=Su8P8FHW+0/abr8GabozP5HEo6kZslXSS9iQRCpSmFcCQK69lHOYd7Vo4JzCwUMKJk pQNi/M4xTstVnXEcCShQLVRsM/95JCvycaSu0fgflAhoFOcyrF3priOipm6iP7mN17A3 I+ecxTJYn087Aji5h9Fw/4Ez4ZWqbndum+txMCZz3r2APCyIs7VEFfepLFOESqGIJEj3 kSuB9kiWdw8J6OUi+SqCjT1bvoKVlXsGkpovXPlOXCTaFzf9fG3jmWvljE8ci7Wr9SIZ UrqTG2SWjLW0WDBp31PiYOB2TddXsJ9j6yG4Ut2lXLjxSjeXgjNPzZXe3oGcMK1OG6aS a17A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :comments:mime-version:content-id:date:message-id; bh=nnv8Zr4cbxnyhvOSMr0Vm8LZkz6fvGvnVAK3zeJ1++4=; b=C71nglfsjKHo7VdbXlcXzG9tyrT1HFiMrxte7uELEwnZ6VUQht5FsQKr37eydjZT+n G0l2hXML2IPoayl9dtvD9UwH/1NXgBVapSndeCHO+vsBF5nFJdYT71tvKdIPpVvjxNdj RFGjjTu871WZR+0U0Xjh8aJelMidXUNUXi4KcgsYNqY69gqW/boeNP/rgJTMLBeWJ6/s pYvgAgvVugz9HUnt1V+JW5MfjSKkjRC47f+AqifN9empnybigfUkJ2NtlRNhEAxq1G3I eLjKG88umagtViphSvMgpJUl1NNq8BPJL48LBR/2a41Ve9kf/C1VaKaJqkX+InvGDBqB 7TJg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUEEaZ+ShabxSC0RWbmKo2BhRAdpPKl+SuxEq6SOcOH76CMSSOP 63FvFu2lggc13jh+nhaRq1mr8vQ/Ck4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw0O/38/njiEAHVbumIMp5/MLKXaNruqLsocE9/rYUZPZzr+CLM7viZqWy7jOR9UvzLlFpNDA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:e305:: with SMTP id cg5mr35513138plb.112.1556150740351; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 17:05:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from desktop.ajb.soy (67-0-35-139.albq.qwest.net. [67.0.35.139]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w10sm30780631pfi.126.2019.04.24.17.05.39 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Wed, 24 Apr 2019 17:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Sender: "Anthony J. Bentley" Received: from desktop.ajb.soy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by desktop.ajb.soy (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 97f9989c; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 18:05:37 -0600 (MDT) From: "Anthony J. Bentley" To: Ken Hornstein cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-reply-to: <20190424175557.59C33144D73@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> References: <20190424175557.59C33144D73@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> Comments: In-reply-to Ken Hornstein message dated "Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:55:56 -0400." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <7638.1556150737.1@desktop.ajb.soy> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 18:05:37 -0600 Message-ID: <70756.1556150737@desktop.ajb.soy> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::633 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Thinking about a 1.8 release X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 00:23:06 -0000 Ken Hornstein writes: > I've been getting the itch to once again do the Long Fabled Great MIME > re-write, but before THAT happens ... I am wondering if it makes sense > to think about a 1.8 release, to deal with some not-so-great bugs that > have popped up since 1.7.1 came out. Thoughts? Speaking from a packaging perspective: in practice, I far prefer upstreams to err on the side of too many releases than too few. -- Anthony J. Bentley From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Apr 25 16:53:41 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJlNF-00042U-0m for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 16:53:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49564) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJlNC-00042G-A0 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 16:53:39 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJlNB-0006pg-4s for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 16:53:38 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com ([64.147.108.71]:58847) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJlNA-0006p7-Si for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 16:53:37 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5DE214ED10 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 16:53:34 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; s=sasl; bh=n3eqMZZk8Pe+YNn3VYsdbIlb/ws=; b=qP1IRPBj 90EDan/FJDJglHqwOUGdzt8tYz82HLw1sPbQWXacyvY8J4qEcx9pjlh/cDQ7Ad2j Tv0vLrhvZgn6ISx9PNQCpQ4n9l/S7K1b2Ae4F8e079sZRoPsdVBUJDEp9rJyWXYb totRSUJ1qoJc7LaWKZHFPNuucW4VuDYGhVI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=e+2KZkPxI8DRYOK/WAgm5QxY4k4J0r3umA YXNjGc7sL/EXLPUQKdVf+c70AtRj1mskHczNKrKSfPHCZ2COY+bbRDUO+FJmacQa ezrdCpbrxFSgYKhoWyFue6XosOiRU84ElOa5BS8pMM9pS/jwmU3ayLPRVlHXYciz mkq0c7mXw= Received: from pb-smtp2.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEAE414ED0E for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 16:53:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from paradise-falls.internal (unknown [96.241.66.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4E6BF14ED0D for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 16:53:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <20190423215043.27711.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> References: <20190422195252.5315667B68@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> <20190422224043.B727A13A96A@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <9635-1555977128.136479@3-Z_.GQOt.MB4B> <20190423121046.ED6E42152E@orac.inputplus.co.uk> <14d1bf37-03e6-1b08-6651-368f50ce10fc@redbarn.org> <20190423145218.43515.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> <20190423233511.EA88B143FB4@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <20190423215043.27711.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 16:53:34 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 30D71706-679C-11E9-8F27-DF19F34BB12D-90216062!pb-smtp2.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190425205334.BEAE414ED0E@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 64.147.108.71 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] closefds() _before_ fork? X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:53:39 -0000 >Basically, it opens a file and attempts to obtain an exclusive lock the >file descriptor for that file. If/when it successfully obtains the >exclusive lock it then uses exec() to execute a new process, and that >new process inherits the open file descriptor. As long as that process >leaves the file descriptor open, it continues to hold the lock on said >file which prevents any similarly invoked processes from running >concurrently. > >The lock goes away either when the file descriptor is intentionally >closed, or the process exits or crashes. Ah, alright, I see how that works. And yes, as you note later on, this should actually be an improvement over current nmh behavior, at least in relation to programs that want to do this sort of thing. >Yes, I see what you mean---also, I didn't realize that the approach in >nmh was so varied, but then, I haven't looked at the sources in-depth. Yeah, consistency is not an nmh (nor MH) hallmark, sadly :-) --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Apr 25 19:04:52 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJnQC-0001CH-2l for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 19:04:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45798) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJnQA-0000sX-9F for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 19:04:51 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJnEt-00080k-6D for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 18:53:12 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-f175.google.com ([209.85.160.175]:39276) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJnEt-0007xF-2K for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 18:53:11 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f175.google.com with SMTP id h16so2079975qtk.6 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 15:53:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:date:message-id; bh=G52aD2WukqJZuFjbr/kUcDP7Ou6Op3r2TFWicUJxcsQ=; b=n4VdG7uyF/Fa03ub8HzZMAqX26DJBaBGYW6rKB/Wk/RaWcoxneQzMcaxCM3V6y2cL6 6Jwa3YDI6gTaaFkrsJvd8Vx9t6MXDGE6eW6CdQJujjo920lQ7/rLA1fzFOxcz7ZDd7MO VYMBOncc3zrYyk4qfufY3RhbEWaBqWbRL4h3+NkhlSCKVzY2L8WUXDTqDN5NOA731DSn bjG1kUHSPNXIAEFcg/PkVt5kdDU16dDdjEYBgbOvqOuWu5CbR/JKeopLxk8wVrve7kpQ jhT5UZRkBFnwF97wHxDPKNPNYnvsAuwuCNVTLHxJtb+kphUd1qX0VtuDTGBPn9qnebv/ dsqg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXLCvrQlyXMhyPC5FKQ5TYUr0phto0Ffu+7AOh0C3TouMDjCHdS YYN6k2FLuEOIlgeCHJj/qg6tut1gqcw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzqZSm2Iyd+LMOfO4MyA3v11m11cqmlPGyub0kRDMnNuMd2AlwTyJXohUGEBMv39b6FVN9s4w== X-Received: by 2002:a0c:b505:: with SMTP id d5mr33174138qve.62.1556232789243; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 15:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stl.localdomain ([2601:18f:902:7700::3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m31sm15791752qtm.46.2019.04.25.15.53.07 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 25 Apr 2019 15:53:08 -0700 (PDT) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: David Levine In-Reply-To: my message of Wed, 24 Apr 2019 18:05:37 -0600 References: <20190424175557.59C33144D73@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> <70756.1556150737@desktop.ajb.soy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 18:53:07 -0400 Message-ID: <3064-1556232787.131441@XsTG.S-QA.K3nO> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.160.175 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Thinking about a 1.8 release X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 23:04:51 -0000 Anthony wrote: > Speaking from a packaging perspective: in practice, I far prefer > upstreams to err on the side of too many releases than too few. +1 David From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Apr 25 20:08:09 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJoPR-0003Kf-8r for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:08:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55950) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJoPO-0003KT-Ur for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:08:07 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJoPO-0001vt-1k for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:08:06 -0400 Received: from mailbackend.panix.com ([166.84.1.89]:38718) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJoPN-0001vR-Ul for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:08:05 -0400 Received: from merctech.com (unknown [170.212.0.163]) by mailbackend.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 44qvX43TwCz10J0 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:08:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by merctech.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x3Q082TY019365 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:08:02 -0400 To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: bergman@merctech.com Reply-To: bergman@merctech.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <19363.1556237282.1@localhost> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:08:02 -0400 Message-ID: <19364-1556237282.143059@jitV.CEFS.WA49> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux (Android) X-Received-From: 166.84.1.89 Subject: [nmh-workers] Thank You X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 00:08:08 -0000 $WORK migrated my email to Office365 this week. I now appreciate [n]mh more than I ever have since I began using it in 1987. I want to thank each of you who is helping to keep nmh alive and functioning -- I owe you all an adult beverage. Mark From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Apr 25 20:33:46 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hJooC-0008C8-G0 for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:33:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60446) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJooA-00089a-40 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:33:42 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJoew-0003ng-Mk for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:24:11 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp1.pobox.com ([64.147.108.70]:58725) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hJoew-0003kd-FX for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:24:10 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp1.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56555154A56; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:24:08 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; s=sasl; bh=/r2yMe0jl9rVv8dxzm7EMLxF/Eg=; b=qmjo/Oyl daev7rNol2Np8jT9DPFMtSs4cMF0+AyJ0Q6zLo30ySAwAQY3x/AJxPX7++q35oYc 6VOtWU54IRtLksjX+3sOhMqSAf4K6/mVILY4QoEFWPDlyRC1EikJ+ztkRtUVn+Bs FHJ0AXvRIDJVhnaVCk+16MUUl6/cadUR+Ak= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=mgpjGqqoJoGjWcqDJownSu2r/9BJqdkJBm aYOKlde3SV03dZpMUshJka14o8c9Ywf/I6W8hGGEK0CR8GOzDLL9OhJ8fHDbjs3Q 7bY7xnlXS4s/LbTgzl4TZJ8VOlmEbkTxLoi2SOWR6dx6XuQSF7shvYTJjKAbGSsV GYvZoKuYU= Received: from pb-smtp1.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5010B154A55; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:24:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from paradise-falls.internal (unknown [96.241.66.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DCA81154A53; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:24:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hornstein To: bergman@merctech.com cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <19364-1556237282.143059@jitV.CEFS.WA49> References: <19364-1556237282.143059@jitV.CEFS.WA49> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:24:07 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 9B0C3DAA-67B9-11E9-BCB9-1646B3964D18-90216062!pb-smtp1.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190426002408.5010B154A55@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 64.147.108.70 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Thank You X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 00:33:43 -0000 >$WORK migrated my email to Office365 this week. You know ... you MIGHT be able to use nmh with Office 365 (they claim to support POP servers, although when I tried poking at it a bit it didn't quite work ... we might have bugs, which I would love to fix). --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 28 12:23:30 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hKmaQ-0004eE-Nq for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Apr 2019 12:23:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57056) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hKmaN-00047D-QL for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 28 Apr 2019 12:23:29 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hKmLJ-0003SS-Lr for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 28 Apr 2019 12:07:55 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-f196.google.com ([209.85.222.196]:33920) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hKmLF-0003RM-T7 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 28 Apr 2019 12:07:52 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-f196.google.com with SMTP id n68so4668520qka.1 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2019 09:07:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:date:message-id; bh=Ttme2hQoDOpbQkwZLuc3Rciu/pVmrgc009jfVD2XLDs=; b=nkbUltlPAnru+XqJRaI4lyjHuLbpIHkIrepw/x4zr8rHgkTFgxvPLW8Wwjr5je/iHk RWcf5BTR3Z3WypGUh/5byNoE3s7xvgKZnIl/EwPz09Zpfa0QsR31YptFUTu+TQvoSTkx cyQ1SxjkValA4hjQCg0lJINonzpYTGAe7yNFEFjPJcP/phYv3ucilESw2y3PGxAgEnbT gR0w/kCruysPGiufWf/+YuT6QrfMsv/GDdvZBn2ixxCDXc9V6OOHZywy04yaELGH15X+ qenUW5xA20Dd4MNMKs7SYY7dNV7MpCHeA96EWXQOQZkaCRPjT4mBv+UR5XhoHG/ryDJ9 oQaw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVs7dbaPyN3f2tyqDiJnf3vKGf8PpTUUs2O2RPUg4AuoTV5SaY/ 2bS0/Cf4SRIOHgfC2xA0/2r5eFvm/fE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzxFynz1VNj+IOY0KJCY8XhG9eFNIUOt9ZbQNX9ry8fuUSeB6pAuodRxwn9JK5nNhlZuogD1g== X-Received: by 2002:a37:a285:: with SMTP id l127mr10773767qke.109.1556467665827; Sun, 28 Apr 2019 09:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stl.localdomain ([2601:18f:902:7700::4]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w40sm11291708qth.35.2019.04.28.09.07.44 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 28 Apr 2019 09:07:44 -0700 (PDT) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: David Levine In-Reply-To: my message of Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:24:07 -0400 References: <19364-1556237282.143059@jitV.CEFS.WA49> <20190426002408.5010B154A55@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2019 12:07:43 -0400 Message-ID: <13417-1556467663.442883@LUnV.VqWg.dgpb> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.222.196 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Thank You X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2019 16:23:29 -0000 Ken wrote: > [Mark:] > >$WORK migrated my email to Office365 this week. > > You know ... you MIGHT be able to use nmh with Office 365 (they claim to > support POP servers, although when I tried poking at it a bit it didn't > quite work ... we might have bugs, which I would love to fix). Maybe OAUTH2 is necessary. I just registered nmh as an app with Microsoft. I'm not able to use it with my Office365 account because that's been configured to not allow user consent for applications. If anyone has such consent, it might be worth a quick try to see if nmh can access your mail. To see if you have consent, I think these steps will work: 1. Login for web access, for OWA maybe using something like https://outlook.office.com/owa/?realm=3D 2. Login to the same account at https://myapps.microsoft.com/ and see if there's a way to add nmh If you can add nmh, then these steps might allow and test OAUTH2 access: 1. add to your profile: oauth-office365-credential-file: oauth-office365 oauth-office365-client_id: 1ed76533-a0a8-4bc0-bbb6-ea822dbc1bc6 oauth-office365-client_secret: n/a oauth-office365-auth_endpoint: https://login.microsoftonline.com/common/= oauth2/v2.0/authorize oauth-office365-redirect_uri: https://login.microsoftonline.com/common/= oauth2/nativeclient oauth-office365-token_endpoint: https://login.microsoftonline.com/common/= oauth2/v2.0/token oauth-office365-scope: https://graph.windows.net/offline_access%= 20https://graph.windows.net/calendars.readwrite%20https://graph.windows.ne= t/contacts.readwrite%20https://graph.windows.net/mail.readwrite%20https://= graph.windows.net/mail.send%20https://graph.windows.net/mailboxsettings.re= adwrite%20https://graph.windows.net/people.read%20https://graph.windows.ne= t/user.read 2. use mhlogin, with nmh 1.7.1 and later, to get authorization: mhlogin -user -authservice office365 3. to retrieve, try: inc -initialtls -sasl -saslmech xoauth2 -authservice office365 -host outlo= ok.office365.com -port 995 -user -snoop 4. to send, try: send -tls -sasl -saslmech xoauth2 -authservice office365 -server smtp.offi= ce365.com -user If that works, we could generalize mhlogin to embed all those tokens so the user wouldn't have to add them to their profile. David From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Apr 28 20:58:57 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hKudF-0002fz-AZ for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Apr 2019 20:58:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36987) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hKudD-0002fg-5Q for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 28 Apr 2019 20:58:56 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hKudB-0000Oh-UI for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 28 Apr 2019 20:58:55 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp21.pobox.com ([173.228.157.53]:57395) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hKudB-0000NS-P0 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Sun, 28 Apr 2019 20:58:53 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp21.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp21.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09BFE5B237 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2019 20:58:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kenh@pobox.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:date:message-id; s=sasl; bh=aS9j4cw0r 2qUu2l3hB7W7He/ivc=; b=urJ4oiKVnWH5Apem1zr/gIrHIs04/7keNCHFPJ6Lq 6o/xVA4TiVCUMphW4ooa4UVuKZH5ipz7Sb0EsGYgWt251D/rvYZERwwqloW/f+g0 eIy/y7X76t3ns0EmBOBr6RCtpAQpnknioDtGYyWBdFn2UdiX+OrGQesY8NNIORuE Ks= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:date:message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=xfO bc41ppIoon1WFe5+oNj8R/4pILICgLqb0GtKqlVlXnTqqLo7jr4IAEbnBsnF5gOY 0rSiPF3wZcRQTa9Hg2Ls1QVfqfG7+0MdHN2X9fk7ZnFcIPhoCOKOX1BzBneE64jP LBwWsZQj2PJHeiUihxf7H2IDvLsbadkSZVUtxx74= Received: from pb-smtp21.sea.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp21.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 021E55B236 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2019 20:58:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kenh@pobox.com) Received: from paradise-falls.internal (unknown [96.241.66.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp21.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 918755B234 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2019 20:58:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kenh@pobox.com) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <13417-1556467663.442883@LUnV.VqWg.dgpb> References: <19364-1556237282.143059@jitV.CEFS.WA49> <20190426002408.5010B154A55@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> <13417-1556467663.442883@LUnV.VqWg.dgpb> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2019 20:58:46 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: F1E8B862-6A19-11E9-98A7-EE24A11ADF13-90216062!pb-smtp21.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190429005850.021E55B236@pb-smtp21.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 173.228.157.53 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Thank You X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 00:58:56 -0000 >> You know ... you MIGHT be able to use nmh with Office 365 (they claim t= o >> support POP servers, although when I tried poking at it a bit it didn't >> quite work ... we might have bugs, which I would love to fix). > >Maybe OAUTH2 is necessary. I just registered nmh as an app with >Microsoft. I'm not able to use it with my Office365 account >because that's been configured to not allow user consent for >applications. So, I thought that maybe that would work. But, here's what I have discove= red: - While the Office 365 IMAP and SMTP servers at least advertise XOAUTH2 in their SASL authentication dialog, the POP server does not. - Others have tried using XOAUTH2, and they got the answer that it does no= t work and there are no plans to make it work: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/29747477/imap-auth-in-office-365-usi= ng-oauth2 - It seems like many Office 365 domains are configured to not allow POP/IM= AP access, or not allow user consent for applications. It seems like you could use their REST protocol to access Office 365 mailboxes (oh, yay, another network protocol, I'll add it to the to-do list). At least it is documented. --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Apr 29 08:35:01 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hL5Uq-0003Mz-VS for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 08:35:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45933) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hL5Up-0003Ms-3Y for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 08:34:59 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hL5Uo-0002vV-6h for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 08:34:59 -0400 Received: from relay05.pair.com ([216.92.24.67]:56248) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hL5Uo-0002mS-31 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 08:34:58 -0400 Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (unknown [84.51.141.101]) by relay05.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D6751A2EAE for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 08:34:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orac.inputplus.co.uk (orac.inputplus.co.uk [IPv6:::1]) by orac.inputplus.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id A062421DA0 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 13:34:54 +0100 (BST) To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org From: Ralph Corderoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 13:34:54 +0100 Message-Id: <20190429123454.A062421DA0@orac.inputplus.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 216.92.24.67 Subject: [nmh-workers] Autocrypt. X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 12:35:00 -0000 Hi, I'll have time to reply to nmh emails in a few days, but meanwhile I thought I'd mention Autocrypt having spotted once again its huge header in emails I receive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocrypt Perhaps one for (Ken's) https://www.nongnu.org/nmh/rfc.html page, if it wasn't just RFCs but standards too? --=20 Cheers, Ralph. From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Apr 29 11:28:06 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hL8CM-0006TA-Ij for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:28:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59917) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hL8CK-0006T3-5S for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:28:04 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hL8CI-000835-B9 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:28:04 -0400 Received: from pellegrino.bradfordfamily.org ([208.53.44.231]:65358) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hL8CH-0007lp-62 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:28:02 -0400 Received: (qmail 29338 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2019 15:27:45 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO arnor.bradfordfamily.org) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 29 Apr 2019 15:27:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 73927 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2019 04:33:35 -0000 Received: from angmar.bradfordfamily.org (166.70.45.29) by edoras.bradfordfamily.org with SMTP; 29 Apr 2019 04:33:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 78256 invoked by uid 1000); 29 Apr 2019 04:33:34 -0000 Date: 28 Apr 2019 22:33:34 -0600 Message-ID: <20190428223334.2591.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> From: "Andy Bradford" Mail-Reply-To: amb-1472650868-xmhe@bradfords.org To: bergman@merctech.com Cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailer: exmh version 2.7.2 01/07/2005 with nmh-1.6 References: <19364-1556237282.143059@jitV.CEFS.WA49> In-reply-to: <19364-1556237282.143059@jitV.CEFS.WA49> Comments: In-reply-to bergman@merctech.com message dated "Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:08:02 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 208.53.44.231 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Thank You X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 15:28:05 -0000 Thus said bergman@merctech.com on Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:08:02 -0400: > $WORK migrated my email to Office365 this week. I've had a similar experience and was able to reintegrate nmh by using Davmail to provide a POP interface to Office365---if they don't provide one for you already. Use search engines to discover more about Davmail. Thanks, Andy -- TAI64 timestamp: 400000005cc67ec3 From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Apr 29 17:53:58 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hLEDm-00023I-7q for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 17:53:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35493) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLEDk-00020F-3q for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 17:53:57 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLEDh-00030R-Po for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 17:53:56 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp20.pobox.com ([173.228.157.52]:50971) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLEDh-0002zK-IN for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 17:53:53 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp20.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9727A57141 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 17:53:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kenh@pobox.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; s=sasl; bh=1LKvBVHYvsbGmrTLM2raCscb528=; b=j5bm5Kbt Osr1vMbLIZGu31ni2IBH/FnaxDEUh0Y1tkz2nTN+E2swbuPc5xssIHOjaWzvHSv7 FzKWRHYn/MjdJ77X32N0uLrOZqtnRYq5dlMmh/ko6PpV8OWIg5IUjt3ToN6kUs0+ 9IN+Z7WcujXlgqNsgh0V5FxWPRLPNlcd9Xo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:subject :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=Sm4kwQWfIldekFpg0oiwf6JC4KOBijL8pK kGftxoAsmOExU1YHrXw7sEtt7jgeIuMY14NKBa1sfrAz2gIlVoUczA/au8b4OXM+ IhDqtNDk9G9aAjTLSieO+mQwzuqKpgATNR/eIr8iSh02RRGiw5KUW7neyoI1Z7tN DSW8EyEkw= Received: from pb-smtp20.sea.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FCA057140 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 17:53:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kenh@pobox.com) Received: from paradise-falls.internal (unknown [96.241.66.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2B5685713F for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 17:53:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from kenh@pobox.com) From: Ken Hornstein To: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <20190429123454.A062421DA0@orac.inputplus.co.uk> References: <20190429123454.A062421DA0@orac.inputplus.co.uk> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 17:53:46 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 448DB57C-6AC9-11E9-AD5B-D01F9763A999-90216062!pb-smtp20.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190429215350.8FCA057140@pb-smtp20.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 173.228.157.52 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Autocrypt. X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 21:53:57 -0000 >I'll have time to reply to nmh emails in a few days, but meanwhile >I thought I'd mention Autocrypt having spotted once again its huge >header in emails I receive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocrypt I have been thinking about the architectue nuts and bolts required to do encryption right; I deal with a lot of S/MIME at $DAYJOB (I am not looking forward to writing a CMS parser), but of course supporting GPG is essential as well. And I think this is interesting ... we need to be able to insert the correct header (we have reasonable tools for that) and have some per-destination state; that suggests we should be maybe export some tools for generic key-value manipulation? Oh, hm, we already have the context file for that, and I guess we can use "anno" on that (but is it rich enough to handle everything?). Worth keeping this in mind! >Perhaps one for (Ken's) https://www.nongnu.org/nmh/rfc.html page, >if it wasn't just RFCs but standards too? Hey, it's not my page, it's _our_ page! :-) I didn't think I was the one who created it, but I guess I did. I did add Autocrypt to that. --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 30 13:23:43 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hLWTn-00023Z-IF for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:23:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47275) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLWTl-00021G-M1 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:23:42 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLWTk-0001qQ-Pi for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:23:41 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com ([64.147.108.71]:56246) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLWTk-0001pc-Hi for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:23:40 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B3391512D6; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:23:38 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; s=sasl; bh=DS7MiA4dA1Nq2rmNJtd6i/VONcg=; b=MQaCOVre fqzNaiMeqPtXSExAD6BRYikFrWUHKwGPN2VwtRw5qMwZCLrqYGPDc0sDhM3Pe57z yVKX1spC40UeL4JmfQF2DHfjCYUoI53IPPxGPOs+jJRh7PoHmaUPrSHrpZ9dU0ij aiobMRi5yN7abwfx1IsiEHEKSkzHKAZ5Elc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=FcGtLnaw1sUcrfOMuUzxU7nwCrxkB/chVh 3CQU6z8lSoauKgqgjqIdN7hBE8WFf3cZ+a8ZjmOJncBfao2vMbcafcTKuDG/yrQx VqJRe3jNS4mHB0WpdbdMl8lZ/YBjlMoZr+rpKvLQaSmx6MdkD/ihBofT1qLxxvMb X8TZtSM0I= Received: from pb-smtp2.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40BA71512D5; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:23:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zoolander.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (unknown [134.207.12.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C983B1512D4; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:23:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hornstein To: amb-1472650868-xmhe@bradfords.org cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <20190428223334.2591.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> References: <19364-1556237282.143059@jitV.CEFS.WA49> <20190428223334.2591.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:23:37 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: B0D046E8-6B6C-11E9-AABA-DF19F34BB12D-90216062!pb-smtp2.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190430172338.40BA71512D5@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 64.147.108.71 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Thank You X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 17:23:42 -0000 >> $WORK migrated my email to Office365 this week. > >I've had a similar experience and was able to reintegrate nmh by using >Davmail to provide a POP interface to Office365---if they don't provide >one for you already. Use search engines to discover more about Davmail. Thank you for that pointer; sadly, I went through the whole process of getting it started, it DID pop up the right window to prompt for MFA, but the domain I use is configured to require administrator approval to use another email application. I'll try to go that route but I don't have much hope. --Ken From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 30 16:37:38 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hLZVS-0002WZ-Bw for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 16:37:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52932) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLZVO-0002Jh-4C for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 16:37:36 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLZOY-0008UH-Ea for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 16:30:31 -0400 Received: from pellegrino.bradfordfamily.org ([208.53.44.231]:55242) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLZOY-0008HR-2n for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 16:30:30 -0400 Received: (qmail 78644 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2019 20:30:14 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO arnor.bradfordfamily.org) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 30 Apr 2019 20:30:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 23980 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2019 19:38:37 -0000 Received: from angmar.bradfordfamily.org (166.70.45.29) by edoras.bradfordfamily.org with SMTP; 30 Apr 2019 19:38:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 69607 invoked by uid 1000); 30 Apr 2019 19:38:37 -0000 Date: 30 Apr 2019 13:38:36 -0600 Message-ID: <20190430133836.13323.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> From: "Andy Bradford" Mail-Reply-To: amb-1472650868-xmhe@bradfords.org To: "Ken Hornstein" Cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailer: exmh version 2.7.2 01/07/2005 with nmh-1.6 References: <19364-1556237282.143059@jitV.CEFS.WA49> <20190428223334.2591.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> <20190430172338.40BA71512D5@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> In-reply-to: <20190430172338.40BA71512D5@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> Comments: In-reply-to Ken Hornstein message dated "Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:23:37 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 208.53.44.231 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Thank You X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 20:37:37 -0000 Thus said Ken Hornstein on Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:23:37 -0400: > Thank you for that pointer; sadly, I went through the whole process of > getting it started, it DID pop up the right window to prompt for MFA, > but the domain I use is configured to require administrator approval > to use another email application. I think there may also be an option to use a personal token (which may have to be enabled). I cannot search for it at the moment, but I do recall seeing some discussion in the Davmail forums about using a token instead of MFA. Thanks, Andy -- TAI64 timestamp: 400000005cc8a461 From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 30 18:05:45 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hLasj-0007IT-Ie for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 18:05:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43693) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLasf-00076S-7d for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 18:05:42 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLajy-0007ss-L9 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 17:56:44 -0400 Received: from mail-yw1-f53.google.com ([209.85.161.53]:42540) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLajy-0007sV-H2 for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 17:56:42 -0400 Received: by mail-yw1-f53.google.com with SMTP id y131so7078791ywa.9 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 14:56:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lbrB5BfJOYK7k6vecRU0wP1aVNasguyoHgBDcq9dKj8=; b=pmU0ZfG10ugJX40ps/gQQrkrBcgD47izxZBbChEiZaHMe0xhLykLbmQq8ZwWcklwlF PEKZen5SlEk67nmaOW1KgMNWFz7dIBTQoMKSi+hGdG0swoyAorPt/7mEg4mMDtCLk7qe 1x0uB0DFZal5pJS3AZUZ9yhRDJFDvuosSJgY/SBVUGBwUH1dQBCu7CeTi7yeqSXwu+q3 0XYeAr5Nm6HJTG0WlFbvYRUaEYLxJWVi1mJaFSr0BnvgIL80zpkQdb+v5/PANGK4HHTn 8IrVBmwwgT/b5Vl9y7La6ZIVmoigQdAxbTgqXRtVk0TcvblOAmC4fVk4wd1t3MRfK3ue b/Pg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWVrGhi4YxSHoXbOfnbYnmJpQYNhI4/KHj/yqOh5T6PKDdAApaX 4FjQ+kTVRwouOQcGt+yXyA7vN3rj4zWARWNZ5T4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzL/1F0Oe9jpY6UqZ/DnrWcC+EK1rLHqtShEBOGwlxfes08ncsXmq1bF86++ud5M8oGJMpSfuG3Kivf9FcvMVY= X-Received: by 2002:a81:1150:: with SMTP id 77mr57942402ywr.241.1556661401215; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 14:56:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <19364-1556237282.143059@jitV.CEFS.WA49> <20190428223334.2591.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> <20190430172338.40BA71512D5@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> <20190430133836.13323.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> In-Reply-To: <20190430133836.13323.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> From: chad Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 14:56:28 -0700 Message-ID: To: Andy Bradford Cc: Ken Hornstein , nmh workers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000dae5970587c679bc" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.161.53 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Thank You X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 22:05:42 -0000 --000000000000dae5970587c679bc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" In the past, I once made this work by forwarding O365 to gmail, setting up gmail's approved-spoofing so it can send mail as the O365 account, and then using nmh to connect to gmail. I'm sure that ugly workaround isn't going to be acceptable to everyone, though. Sorry for your loss. ~Chad P.S. Sending this from gmail, having temporarily given up the fight. Apologies for anything especially terrible it does. :-( On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 1:40 PM Andy Bradford wrote: > Thus said Ken Hornstein on Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:23:37 -0400: > > > Thank you for that pointer; sadly, I went through the whole process of > > getting it started, it DID pop up the right window to prompt for MFA, > > but the domain I use is configured to require administrator approval > > to use another email application. > > I think there may also be an option to use a personal token (which may > have to be enabled). I cannot search for it at the moment, but I do > recall seeing some discussion in the Davmail forums about using a token > instead of MFA. > > Thanks, > > Andy > -- > TAI64 timestamp: 400000005cc8a461 > > > > -- > nmh-workers > https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers > --000000000000dae5970587c679bc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In the past, I once made this work by forwarding O365 to g= mail, setting up gmail's approved-spoofing so it can send mail as the O= 365 account, and then using nmh to connect to gmail. I'm sure that ugly= workaround isn't going to be acceptable to everyone, though. Sorry for= your loss.

~Chad
P.S. Sending this from gmail= , having temporarily given up the fight. Apologies for anything especially = terrible it does. :-(

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 1:40 PM Andy Bradford &l= t;amb-xmhe@bradfords.org> = wrote:
Thus said= Ken Hornstein on Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:23:37 -0400:

> Thank you for that pointer; sadly, I went through the whole process of=
> getting it started, it DID pop up=C2=A0 the right window to prompt for= MFA,
> but the domain=C2=A0 I use is configured to=C2=A0 require administrato= r approval
> to use another email application.

I think there may=C2=A0 also be an option to use a=C2=A0 personal token (wh= ich may
have to=C2=A0 be enabled). I=C2=A0 cannot search=C2=A0 for it at=C2=A0 the = moment, but=C2=A0 I do
recall seeing some discussion in the=C2=A0 Davmail forums about using a tok= en
instead of MFA.

Thanks,

Andy
--
TAI64 timestamp: 400000005cc8a461



--
nmh-workers
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-w= orkers
--000000000000dae5970587c679bc-- From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Apr 30 21:04:00 2019 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1hLdfE-0004Sk-5B for mharc-nmh-workers@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 21:04:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55030) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLdf9-0004PR-Cg for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 21:03:58 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLdf2-0000YI-Hg for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 21:03:52 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp1.pobox.com ([64.147.108.70]:51300) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLdez-0000Ux-8q for nmh-workers@nongnu.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 21:03:46 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp1.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E11E24221D; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 21:03:37 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; s=sasl; bh=M69k1Ha1BrGWXUkpbvtPSfsogZ0=; b=n85xIwh6 kl2vBCcd4I5aWGJVwoNVIGfaHQsGmiFjt2Dy8Yp7Q4+77LD12N2kUiWbrMxpJLrC I0aRfXmR2aPyClcrsEs1hoclnbCk9JVAZ4CGSJW7HnSXbeLdMylbe+0Pt43UJ+A3 n4m1Dmt0NmY5H/GTgYOvaOdZMb/4+XlbYSQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:date :message-id; q=dns; s=sasl; b=x+SJPyFet8IUIzc2L5I4kTOFZ2FRzFYMNO i2LqPLRT9q4/bPv+IyehHldwBalMjkef7210UF2kX9HotxrKh1f1jW2wpwLk+J8v X3K4kmCPjCo4OoQpOe81GzejUjXNVphCbhAeqe+y8JLlXF66bYHZcZTj5++xe84+ xaZhGHWKM= Received: from pb-smtp1.nyi.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9A1C4221B; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 21:03:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from paradise-falls.internal (unknown [96.241.66.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp1.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6ED9A4221A; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 21:03:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hornstein To: "Andy Bradford" cc: nmh-workers@nongnu.org In-Reply-To: <20190430133836.95463.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> References: <19364-1556237282.143059@jitV.CEFS.WA49> <20190428223334.2591.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> <20190430172338.40BA71512D5@pb-smtp2.pobox.com> <20190430133836.95463.qmail@angmar.bradfordfamily.org> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 21:03:36 -0400 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: F3799644-6BAC-11E9-AA97-1646B3964D18-90216062!pb-smtp1.pobox.com Message-Id: <20190501010337.D9A1C4221B@pb-smtp1.pobox.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 64.147.108.70 Subject: Re: [nmh-workers] Thank You X-BeenThere: nmh-workers@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of nmh development, and help for new users" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 May 2019 01:03:58 -0000 >I think there may also be an option to use a personal token (which may >have to be enabled). I cannot search for it at the moment, but I do >recall seeing some discussion in the Davmail forums about using a token >instead of MFA. Here is my understanding of the situation. It certainly may be wrong or incomplete. - Aside from username/password, the "normal" way things are authenticated to Office 365 is OAuth (there were other options with older protocols). - The way that works in practice is your application (in this case DavMail) opens up a web browser window, you enter in your second factor, and that gets the OAuth bearer token. - I won't get into the details of the OAuth protocol, but when you get the bearer token incorporated into it is a client software identifier (nmh has one registered for Gmail, for example). So when I run DavMail the authentication succeeds, but it then pulls up a window saying that an administrator needs to enable DavMail to access email for this domain. Clearly someone _registered_ DavMail (it had the DavMail icon and everything), but I don't have the rights to make it work without getting our Office 365 people involved. - In theory you could put any client identifier and secret in there you wanted, so if (for example) you could figure out the client identifier and secret for, say, Outlook for Android you could use that (any Android users want to spend some time trawling through the Outlook client binary??). Although you need to run some app to enable those mobile devices in O365, so maybe something else is needed. I did see some of those messages you were talking about on the DavMail user list, but all of the ones I saw were talking about things like RSA tokens with Exchange (which use the older protocol, not Office 365). What I have seen says for Office 365, you need OAuth and that means you're kind of stuck if your domain doesn't allow the application identified by the OAuth client identifier. Again, I would like to stress that it is entirely possible my information is incomplete or wrong. --Ken