From LRA@Northcoast.com Fri Jun 3 11:32:31 2005 Received: from borg.inreach.com (mail.northcoast.com [209.142.2.71]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j53FWUdW023322 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:32:30 -0400 Received: (qmail 16274 invoked by uid 507); 3 Jun 2005 15:32:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?209.209.19.234?) (209.209.19.234) by mail.northcoast.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2005 15:32:28 -0000 Message-ID: <42A0780B.9050003@Northcoast.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 08:32:27 -0700 From: Steve Railsback User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Swarm Modelling Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Swarm-Modelling] Crichton's "Prey" X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 15:32:31 -0000 Someone just gave me Michael Crichton's 2002 book "Prey". (I would bet a lot of money that he wanted to name it "Swarm" but his lawyers told him not to...too bad, could have been a nice fund-raiser for us.) Am I nuts, or is a central assumption of the book nonsense? He has a swarm of independent, persistent, artificial organisms; and the swarm could learn very rapidly. Our brains can learn rapidly, but the connections are all hardwired; a population of simple organisms can "learn" but only via evolution, which requires birth and death and selection... Is there any way a collection of independent agents, interacting locally with a changing set of neighbors, can "learn" without evolution? Steve -- Lang Railsback & Assoc. 250 California Ave. Arcata, California 95521 707 822 0453 From marshall@cs.bris.ac.uk Fri Jun 3 11:47:35 2005 Received: from dirg.bris.ac.uk (dirg.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.102]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j53FlYRU024524 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:47:35 -0400 Received: from lunaleka.cs.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.102.100]) by dirg.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.51) id 1DeEOS-000443-FM for modelling@swarm.org; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 16:47:34 +0100 Received: from [137.222.102.97] (helo=[137.222.102.97]) by lunaleka.cs.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.51) id 1DeEOP-0001ZJ-TC for modelling@swarm.org; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 16:47:30 +0100 Message-ID: <42A07B91.4030109@cs.bris.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 16:47:29 +0100 From: James Marshall User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (X11/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Swarm Modelling Subject: Re: [Swarm-Modelling] Crichton's "Prey" References: <42A0780B.9050003@Northcoast.com> In-Reply-To: <42A0780B.9050003@Northcoast.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.8 X-Spam-Level: -- X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 15:47:35 -0000 Steve, you may find the following interesting, although I believe whether associations between individuals changes over time is something my colleagues are only just starting to look at. Regards, James Langridge EA, Franks NR, Sendova-Franks AB Improvement in collective performance with experience in ants BEHAV ECOL SOCIOBIOL 56 (6): 523-529 OCT 2004 Steve Railsback wrote: > > Someone just gave me Michael Crichton's 2002 book "Prey". (I would bet a > lot of money that he wanted to name it "Swarm" but his lawyers told him > not to...too bad, could have been a nice fund-raiser for us.) > > Am I nuts, or is a central assumption of the book nonsense? He has a > swarm of independent, persistent, artificial organisms; and the swarm > could learn very rapidly. Our brains can learn rapidly, but the > connections are all hardwired; a population of simple organisms can > "learn" but only via evolution, which requires birth and death and > selection... Is there any way a collection of independent agents, > interacting locally with a changing set of neighbors, can "learn" > without evolution? > > Steve > -- Dr James A. R. Marshall Department of Computer Science University of Bristol http://www.cs.bris.ac.uk/home/marshall From north@anl.gov Fri Jun 3 11:59:24 2005 Received: from pigpen.dis.anl.gov (pigpen.dis.anl.gov [146.137.100.3]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j53FxOAS025589 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:59:24 -0400 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Subject: RE: [Swarm-Modelling] Crichton's "Prey" Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:59:23 -0500 Message-ID: <4CD1A813E1202542B0BCED76FDEF4F24022E3B7B@pigpen.dis.anl.gov> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Swarm-Modelling] Crichton's "Prey" Thread-Index: AcVoUaPL9Dg3G+CITkqCLjjHDS6NNgAAvLEg From: "North, Michael" To: "Swarm Modelling" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu id j53FxOAS025589 X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 15:59:24 -0000 Steve: I'd argue that collections of independent agents, interacting locally with a changing set of neighbors, can learn without evolution, although this depends on what you identify as the "agents." If you define agents as people, then human social systems learn this way. However, if you define agent as memes or ideas then the learning requires birth and death. Mike -----Original Message----- From: modelling-bounces@swarm.org [mailto:modelling-bounces@swarm.org] On Behalf Of Steve Railsback Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 10:32 AM To: Swarm Modelling Subject: [Swarm-Modelling] Crichton's "Prey" Someone just gave me Michael Crichton's 2002 book "Prey". (I would bet a lot of money that he wanted to name it "Swarm" but his lawyers told him not to...too bad, could have been a nice fund-raiser for us.) Am I nuts, or is a central assumption of the book nonsense? He has a swarm of independent, persistent, artificial organisms; and the swarm could learn very rapidly. Our brains can learn rapidly, but the connections are all hardwired; a population of simple organisms can "learn" but only via evolution, which requires birth and death and selection... Is there any way a collection of independent agents, interacting locally with a changing set of neighbors, can "learn" without evolution? Steve -- Lang Railsback & Assoc. 250 California Ave. Arcata, California 95521 707 822 0453 _______________________________________________ Modelling mailing list Modelling@swarm.org http://www.swarm.org/mailman/listinfo/modelling From LRA@Northcoast.com Fri Jun 3 13:12:22 2005 Received: from borg.inreach.com (mail.northcoast.com [209.142.2.71]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j53HCM81032347 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:12:22 -0400 Received: (qmail 20029 invoked by uid 507); 3 Jun 2005 17:12:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?209.209.20.66?) (209.209.20.66) by mail.northcoast.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2005 17:12:20 -0000 Message-ID: <42A08F73.2060103@Northcoast.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 10:12:19 -0700 From: Steve Railsback User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Swarm Modelling Subject: Re: [Swarm-Modelling] Crichton's "Prey" References: <4CD1A813E1202542B0BCED76FDEF4F24022E3B7B@pigpen.dis.anl.gov> In-Reply-To: <4CD1A813E1202542B0BCED76FDEF4F24022E3B7B@pigpen.dis.anl.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 17:12:22 -0000 North, Michael wrote: > Steve: > > I'd argue that collections of independent agents, interacting locally > with a changing set of neighbors, can learn without evolution, although > this depends on what you identify as the "agents." If you define agents > as people, then human social systems learn this way. However, if you > define agent as memes or ideas then the learning requires birth and > death. So- maybe if the agents themselves are pretty smart? That was ambiguous in the novel- the agents were not described clearly but seemed to be evolved microchips with wings and eyes. -- Lang Railsback & Assoc. 250 California Ave. Arcata, California 95521 707 822 0453 From rlriolo@umich.edu Fri Jun 3 13:24:00 2005 Received: from cscs02.physics.lsa.umich.edu (cscs02 [141.211.97.58]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j53HO09W000745 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:24:00 -0400 Received: from cscs02.physics.lsa.umich.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cscs02.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j53HO02A000395; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:24:00 -0400 Received: from localhost (rlr@localhost) by cscs02.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) with ESMTP id j53HO0PV000391; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:24:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: cscs02.physics.lsa.umich.edu: rlr owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:24:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Rick Riolo X-X-Sender: rlr@cscs02.physics.lsa.umich.edu To: Swarm Modelling Subject: Re: [Swarm-Modelling] Crichton's "Prey" In-Reply-To: <42A0780B.9050003@Northcoast.com> Message-ID: References: <42A0780B.9050003@Northcoast.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Rick Riolo , Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 17:24:01 -0000 i read this a couple of years ago. i thought it was a pretty poor read, frankly, even after suspending disbelief. it was years since i read his andromeda strain, but at least in my memory of it, that was a much better book. (also, i think in prey he mentioned a prof john holland as big name in complex systems / evolutionary algorithsm research but said he was at the university of chicago!!) at any rate, to your point: it doesn't seem like this is impossible, at least "in theory". that is, what if each agent was some kind of finite state machine, like there is in each cell of a cellular automata. that means each will have some sort of function specifying how its inputs and current state map to a new current state (and perhaps to outputs, including actions). thus the agents can "learn" by changing their functions. now suppose the agents were actually connected like a virtual cellular automata...i.e., despite buzzing around a bit, they maintained a more or less fixed set of neighbors. then, as we know from wolfram's work (not to mention all the precursor work that wolfram doesn't mention!!), it doesn't take much to come up with a system of such agents that is a universal computer (in the turing sense), and so can be as "intelligent" as any computation device (of that type). but maybe your main question is about *how they could learn*. well, that is a good question. all the above argument establishs is that such an intelligent system could be implemented in that set of agents, not how to find the implementation (ie how to find the rules). how about this view: learning could consist of looking at neighbors, seeing how well they are doing (at whatever...), and then copying the behavior rules of some neighbor that is doing better than you (with some error). that has change dynamics that are similar to evolutionary learning, i.e., spread of fitter, with some error. that also pushes some/much of the problem off onto the key issue of deciding who to copy (who is "fitter"). there is a long history of "war stories" from lots of work on evolutionary computation, because evolutionary algorithms will take advantage of all kinds of unforeseen consequences of the "fitness function" we give them to work with, and end up doing things far from what we, the designers, had hoped they would do. maybe there are other learning algorithms that might work, depending on what the group has to learn. but i suspect there is a lot we have to learn about what kinds of capabilities agents have to have, including what kind of interaction rules they have that allow them to structure their interaction patterns, not to mention the learning algorithms they would need, to support the kind of swarms he has in the book. here is another view: we people are one example of such swarms! (ie a big group of simple agents that collectively does some smart things). so a queustion is: if there could be "systems" as smart as us that have the kind of loose organization of his swarms, then why haven't they evolved? just bad luck? (ie historical accidents) or are there some deeper reasons that such swarms would not support such intelligent behavior? (ie, if we ran the tape over many times, we'd never see such swarms). perhaps there are organizational reasons such swarms are limited in what they can do, e.g., having to do with the competition/cooperation that has to be managed between selective units at one level (the agents) and higher levels (metazoans, etc), along the lines discussed by maynard smith and szathmary, or franks, or buss, or ... in any case, i agree that it does take a hefty amount of belief suspension to get to the rapid learning that is portrayed in the book. - r Rick Riolo rlriolo@umich.edu Center for the Study of Complex Systems (CSCS) 4477 Randall Lab University of Michigan Ann Arbor MI 48109-1120 Phone: 734 763 3323 Fax: 734 763 9267 http://cscs.umich.edu/~rlr On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Steve Railsback wrote: > Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 08:32:27 -0700 > From: Steve Railsback > Reply-To: Swarm Modelling > To: Swarm Modelling > Subject: [Swarm-Modelling] Crichton's "Prey" > > > Someone just gave me Michael Crichton's 2002 book "Prey". (I would bet a > lot of money that he wanted to name it "Swarm" but his lawyers told him > not to...too bad, could have been a nice fund-raiser for us.) > > Am I nuts, or is a central assumption of the book nonsense? He has a > swarm of independent, persistent, artificial organisms; and the swarm > could learn very rapidly. Our brains can learn rapidly, but the > connections are all hardwired; a population of simple organisms can > "learn" but only via evolution, which requires birth and death and > selection... Is there any way a collection of independent agents, > interacting locally with a changing set of neighbors, can "learn" > without evolution? > > Steve > > -- > Lang Railsback & Assoc. > 250 California Ave. > Arcata, California 95521 > 707 822 0453 > _______________________________________________ > Modelling mailing list > Modelling@swarm.org > http://www.swarm.org/mailman/listinfo/modelling > From north@anl.gov Fri Jun 3 13:49:00 2005 Received: from pigpen.dis.anl.gov (pigpen.dis.anl.gov [146.137.100.3]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j53Hn0d5002851 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:49:00 -0400 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Subject: RE: [Swarm-Modelling] Crichton's "Prey" Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:48:57 -0500 Message-ID: <4CD1A813E1202542B0BCED76FDEF4F24022E3BFE@pigpen.dis.anl.gov> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Swarm-Modelling] Crichton's "Prey" Thread-Index: AcVoYRIT0S9wZI3JQW2xIw7V1/fs/wAAkiwg From: "North, Michael" To: "Swarm Modelling" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu id j53Hn0d5002851 X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 17:49:00 -0000 I agree that the speed of learning presented in the book is hard to believe. I also agree that the book itself has quite a few basic factual errors such as John Holland's affiliation and overall is really not that good. Rick makes a good point that, in theory, individual agents do not have to be that smart to produce a group-level universal computer. However, he also makes a good point in saying that imagining such a system and engineering one with specific non-trivial properties are two very different things. No one really knows how to do the latter without massive trial-and-error exploration. It appears that in this case the devil is in the details of the fitness function. Mike -----Original Message----- From: modelling-bounces@swarm.org [mailto:modelling-bounces@swarm.org] On Behalf Of Rick Riolo Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 12:24 PM To: Swarm Modelling Subject: Re: [Swarm-Modelling] Crichton's "Prey" i read this a couple of years ago. i thought it was a pretty poor read, frankly, even after suspending disbelief. it was years since i read his andromeda strain, but at least in my memory of it, that was a much better book. (also, i think in prey he mentioned a prof john holland as big name in complex systems / evolutionary algorithsm research but said he was at the university of chicago!!) at any rate, to your point: it doesn't seem like this is impossible, at least "in theory". that is, what if each agent was some kind of finite state machine, like there is in each cell of a cellular automata. that means each will have some sort of function specifying how its inputs and current state map to a new current state (and perhaps to outputs, including actions). thus the agents can "learn" by changing their functions. now suppose the agents were actually connected like a virtual cellular automata...i.e., despite buzzing around a bit, they maintained a more or less fixed set of neighbors. then, as we know from wolfram's work (not to mention all the precursor work that wolfram doesn't mention!!), it doesn't take much to come up with a system of such agents that is a universal computer (in the turing sense), and so can be as "intelligent" as any computation device (of that type). but maybe your main question is about *how they could learn*. well, that is a good question. all the above argument establishs is that such an intelligent system could be implemented in that set of agents, not how to find the implementation (ie how to find the rules). how about this view: learning could consist of looking at neighbors, seeing how well they are doing (at whatever...), and then copying the behavior rules of some neighbor that is doing better than you (with some error). that has change dynamics that are similar to evolutionary learning, i.e., spread of fitter, with some error. that also pushes some/much of the problem off onto the key issue of deciding who to copy (who is "fitter"). there is a long history of "war stories" from lots of work on evolutionary computation, because evolutionary algorithms will take advantage of all kinds of unforeseen consequences of the "fitness function" we give them to work with, and end up doing things far from what we, the designers, had hoped they would do. maybe there are other learning algorithms that might work, depending on what the group has to learn. but i suspect there is a lot we have to learn about what kinds of capabilities agents have to have, including what kind of interaction rules they have that allow them to structure their interaction patterns, not to mention the learning algorithms they would need, to support the kind of swarms he has in the book. here is another view: we people are one example of such swarms! (ie a big group of simple agents that collectively does some smart things). so a queustion is: if there could be "systems" as smart as us that have the kind of loose organization of his swarms, then why haven't they evolved? just bad luck? (ie historical accidents) or are there some deeper reasons that such swarms would not support such intelligent behavior? (ie, if we ran the tape over many times, we'd never see such swarms). perhaps there are organizational reasons such swarms are limited in what they can do, e.g., having to do with the competition/cooperation that has to be managed between selective units at one level (the agents) and higher levels (metazoans, etc), along the lines discussed by maynard smith and szathmary, or franks, or buss, or ... in any case, i agree that it does take a hefty amount of belief suspension to get to the rapid learning that is portrayed in the book. - r Rick Riolo rlriolo@umich.edu Center for the Study of Complex Systems (CSCS) 4477 Randall Lab University of Michigan Ann Arbor MI 48109-1120 Phone: 734 763 3323 Fax: 734 763 9267 http://cscs.umich.edu/~rlr On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Steve Railsback wrote: > Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 08:32:27 -0700 > From: Steve Railsback > Reply-To: Swarm Modelling > To: Swarm Modelling > Subject: [Swarm-Modelling] Crichton's "Prey" > > > Someone just gave me Michael Crichton's 2002 book "Prey". (I would bet a > lot of money that he wanted to name it "Swarm" but his lawyers told him > not to...too bad, could have been a nice fund-raiser for us.) > > Am I nuts, or is a central assumption of the book nonsense? He has a > swarm of independent, persistent, artificial organisms; and the swarm > could learn very rapidly. Our brains can learn rapidly, but the > connections are all hardwired; a population of simple organisms can > "learn" but only via evolution, which requires birth and death and > selection... Is there any way a collection of independent agents, > interacting locally with a changing set of neighbors, can "learn" > without evolution? > > Steve > > -- > Lang Railsback & Assoc. > 250 California Ave. > Arcata, California 95521 > 707 822 0453 > _______________________________________________ > Modelling mailing list > Modelling@swarm.org > http://www.swarm.org/mailman/listinfo/modelling > _______________________________________________ Modelling mailing list Modelling@swarm.org http://www.swarm.org/mailman/listinfo/modelling From jmadden@ics.uci.edu Fri Jun 3 18:19:08 2005 Received: from smtp2.es.uci.edu (smtp2.es.uci.edu [128.200.80.5]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j53MJ7G1026021 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:19:07 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.251] (gsliswork30.lis.uiuc.edu [128.174.155.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp2.es.uci.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j53MJ0n8001646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:19:04 -0700 X-UCInetID: jmadden Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v730) In-Reply-To: <42A08F73.2060103@Northcoast.com> References: <4CD1A813E1202542B0BCED76FDEF4F24022E3B7B@pigpen.dis.anl.gov> <42A08F73.2060103@Northcoast.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <0D11FB5D-71DE-40F2-B368-AFC35A647F4C@ics.uci.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Joshua O'Madadhain" Subject: Re: [Swarm-Modelling] Crichton's "Prey" Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:55:58 -0500 To: Swarm Modelling X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.730) X-NACS_ES-MailScanner: No viruses found X-MailScanner-From: jmadden@ics.uci.edu X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 22:19:08 -0000 On 3 Jun 2005, at 12:12, Steve Railsback wrote: > North, Michael wrote: > > >> Steve: >> I'd argue that collections of independent agents, interacting locally >> with a changing set of neighbors, can learn without evolution, >> although >> this depends on what you identify as the "agents." If you define >> agents >> as people, then human social systems learn this way. However, if you >> define agent as memes or ideas then the learning requires birth and >> death. >> >> > > So- maybe if the agents themselves are pretty smart? That was > ambiguous in the novel- the agents were not described clearly but > seemed to be evolved microchips with wings and eyes. > Using terms like "smart" may be confusing in this context. As Michael implied, there are basically two options, depending on whether the individual agents are mutable or immutable. If each agent is immutable--that is, its capabilities and characteristics are fixed--then it can't learn, and learning can only take place by replacing unfit agents with better ones. If each agent is mutable, then it can change its state based on its inputs (what it "sees", etc.)--that is, it can learn. Joshua jmadden@ics.uci.edu...Obscurium Per Obscurius...www.ics.uci.edu/ ~jmadden Joshua O'Madadhain: Information Scientist, Musician, Philosopher- At-Tall It's that moment of dawning comprehension that I live for--Bill Watterson My opinions are too rational and insightful to be those of any organization. From agam.brahma@gmail.com Thu Jun 9 16:20:33 2005 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.192]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j59KKX7C005344 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:20:33 -0400 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so418389wra for ; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 13:20:32 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=IAxU/pjmHHvyGEc/MnbIGkZrwndKa4gan3SAsTIFiFqC7kw1/N73A8MOruqS/WGFj+akp13eyhC9d8xw2SfzHHmhZEN/u1asss3+9PpGl5aplPYzPIZpbmjWPW+gZYa3yU28KftMOvSsXOYYozecG8YH7Jsu2ADDi4DBmOAuBP4= Received: by 10.54.32.62 with SMTP id f62mr553962wrf; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 13:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.15.36 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 13:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5896981805060913205334117@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:50:32 +0530 From: Agam Brahma To: modelling@swarm.org, support@swarm.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu id j59KKX7C005344 Cc: Subject: [Swarm-Modelling] Using swarm for network simulations X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Agam Brahma , Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 20:20:33 -0000 hi has anyone used Swarm as a replacement for NS etc ? Perhaps in non-standard routing protocols or where u felt the agent model worked better for routers or just for the heck of it ?? regards, agam -- "That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die." -- H. P. Lovecraft From Derek.Paulsen@EKU.EDU Thu Jun 9 17:16:31 2005 Received: from FACSTAFF.facultystaff.eku.edu (fsmaila.facultystaff.eku.edu [157.89.36.243]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j59LGUE8009926 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:16:31 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:16:31 -0400 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Modelling robbery through Agent based modelling Thread-Index: AcVtOIHv/wfyXV5ES3+QrCmdJmKNug== From: "Paulsen, Derek" To: Subject: [Swarm-Modelling] Modelling robbery through Agent based modelling X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 21:16:31 -0000 Modelling robbery through Agent based modelling

Swarm Listserve,
     I am a professor of Criminal Justice who has = done quite a bit of research on spatial patterns of crime, particularly = commercial robbery (robbery of commercial locations) and I am wanting to = try and create a simulation of commercial robbery for an actual = city.  My attempt is to see if I can model/simulate robbery in a = real city to test the impact of different factors (location, security, = police presence) on robbery offenses.  I have done a considerable = amount of research on spatial aspects that impact victimization as well = as offender target selection characteristics (interviewed convicted = offenders) and thus I have a good theoretical model for how commercial = robbery locations are selected by offenders.  My question(s) is = where is a good place to start?  I have very little programming = experience, but have access to those who do.  Is there any = particular system that integrates better with GIS and might work better = for me?  What is the best way for me to go about learning more = about the creation of models?  Is this a social process that can be = simulated/modelled or am I off base? Any assistance would be greatly = appreciated. 

Derek J. Paulsen
Assistant Professor
Director, Institute for Spatial Analysis of Crime
Department of Criminal Justice and Police Studies
Eastern Kentucky University
derek.paulsen@eku.edu

From LRA@Northcoast.com Fri Jun 10 11:00:56 2005 Received: from borg.inreach.com (mail.northcoast.com [209.142.2.71]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j5AF0siH031834 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:00:56 -0400 Received: (qmail 1916 invoked by uid 507); 10 Jun 2005 15:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?209.209.20.104?) (209.209.20.104) by mail.northcoast.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2005 15:00:51 -0000 Message-ID: <42A9AB22.7060304@Northcoast.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:00:50 -0700 From: Steve Railsback User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Swarm Modelling Subject: Re: [Swarm-Modelling] Modelling robbery through Agent based modelling References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:00:56 -0000 Paulsen, Derek wrote: > Swarm Listserve, > I am a professor of Criminal Justice who has done quite a bit of > research on spatial patterns of crime, particularly commercial robbery > (robbery of commercial locations) and I am wanting to try and create a > simulation of commercial robbery for an actual city. My attempt is to > see if I can model/simulate robbery in a real city to test the impact of > different factors (location, security, police presence) on robbery > offenses. I have done a considerable amount of research on spatial > aspects that impact victimization as well as offender target selection > characteristics (interviewed convicted offenders) and thus I have a good > theoretical model for how commercial robbery locations are selected by > offenders. My question(s) is where is a good place to start? I have > very little programming experience, but have access to those who do. Is > there any particular system that integrates better with GIS and might > work better for me? What is the best way for me to go about learning > more about the creation of models? Is this a social process that can be > simulated/modelled or am I off base? Any assistance would be greatly > appreciated. Hi- It's good to see new people posting messages like this. Your idea sounds like the kind of model that might work well as an agent-based model not because it must be mathematically (e.g., because interactions and variability among agents are important) but because it is the easiest way to describe and understand the problem. There are a number of groups working on agent- and GIS-based modeling of social problems. The Center for Study of Complex Systems at U. Michigan is modeling urban spawl, for example. And the Repast program started as an agent-based modeling support group in the Social Sciences department at Univ. Chicago. If you are not familiar with Repast (http://repast.sourceforge.net/), it is a Swarm-like agent-based modeling platform now housed at Argonne National Lab. I believe they have incorporated some GIS capabilities but I am not yet familiar with them. How to get started...I always encourage people to think quite a bit about their model and its design (what problems is it intended to solve? what information is available to build and test it? what processes and variables and behaviors absolutely must be included?) before worrying about programming. I also think it is often a good idea to start with an extremely simple model implemented in NetLogo, an extremely simple modeling platform (that comes with a collection of models, some of social problems, as examples). I don't know what modeling literature there might be in your field. My colleague Volker Grimm and I have a new book on individual-based modeling, that starts with several chapters on the modeling process in general and how to get started. Our book is focused on ecology but should be useful to people in other fields. It will be available in a few weeks; see: http://www.humboldt.edu/~ecomodel/book.htm Steve Railsback -- Lang Railsback & Assoc. 250 California Ave. Arcata, California 95521 707 822 0453 From north@anl.gov Mon Jun 13 15:54:06 2005 Received: from pigpen.dis.anl.gov (pigpen.dis.anl.gov [146.137.100.3]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5DJs5oq013756 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:54:06 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:54:03 -0500 Message-ID: <4CD1A813E1202542B0BCED76FDEF4F2402366F17@pigpen.dis.anl.gov> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Agent 2005: Announcement and Call for Papers Thread-Index: AcVwUaZZy4MfXa/wTxSn7akNeFjunw== From: "North, Michael" To: "Swarm Modelling" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu id j5DJs5oq013756 Subject: [Swarm-Modelling] Agent 2005: Announcement and Call for Papers X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:54:06 -0000 Agent 2005: Announcement and Call for Papers We are pleased to announce and welcome abstract submissions for the sixth annual Agent 200X conference: Agent 2005 Conference: Generative Social Processes, Models, and Mechanisms, to be held October 13-15, 2005, Chicago, IL USA. The conference will be preceded by the Repast Training Course, October 10-12, 2005 (Repast training is limited to 20 participants). Information on the conference and Repast training class can be found at www.agent2005.anl.gov. Social agent simulation is increasingly recognized as an effective methodology within the social sciences, particularly a growing range of policy issues. At the same, the deep and dynamic complexity of the domain continues to challenge social modelers. Several approaches have emerged with the potential to address social complexities, generated by the interaction of social agents. As in past conferences, Agent 2005 will consist of three tracks, with one day reserved for each topic: * Computational Social Theory (David Sallach, sallach@uchicago.edu) * Methods, Toolkits & Techniques (Michael North, north@anl.gov) * Social Simulation Applications (Charles Macal, macal@anl.gov) If you are interested in presenting a paper, please submit an abstract of at least 500 words to agent2005@anl.gov. We encourage abstract submissions to indicate under which topic they might best be considered. If your abstract is accepted, you will be asked to submit a paper of 2,500 to 4,000 words in final form. Information on paper format guidelines, registration, and lodging are available at the conference web site at agent2005.anl.gov. Papers presented at the conference will be published in the Agent 2005 Proceedings. Important Deadlines: July 18, 2005 Abstract Submission Deadline August 8, 2005 Notification of Paper Acceptance September 24, 2005 Full Paper Submission Deadline *Agent 2005 is Co-hosted by Argonne National Laboratory and The University of Chicago in association with NAACSOS, the North American Association for Computational Social and Organizational Science. From gwang@essex.ac.uk Thu Jun 16 21:14:07 2005 Received: from serlx29.essex.ac.uk (serlx29.essex.ac.uk [155.245.48.16]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5H1E6GW006016 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:14:07 -0400 Received: from sernt12.essex.ac.uk ([155.245.48.25]) by serlx29.essex.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Dj5Qp-0000Kc-K8 for modelling@swarm.org; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 02:14:03 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 02:14:00 +0100 Message-ID: <9970A3EB1351D611996E00B0D07806F903414ED6@sernt12.essex.ac.uk> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Index: AcVy2dfalJ5STgzXTae00+9ioRba2Q== From: "Wang, Guannan" To: X-Essex-ClamAV: No malware found X-Essex-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Essex-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.25, required 5, autolearn=disabled, ALL_TRUSTED -2.82, MISSING_SUBJECT 1.57) X-MailScanner-From: gwang@essex.ac.uk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu id j5H1E6GW006016 Subject: [Swarm-Modelling] (no subject) X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 01:14:07 -0000 Hello group, Now I need to do the network graph by swarm. I try to use grid graph to implement it, but it seems not work well. The network is about relation between two kinds of agents, customer and merchant. The customer agents RANDOMLY link some of merchant agents. Which graph is suitable to build network model? Is it possible to use line to link two agents to show their relation? Thanks in advance. I am looking forward to hearing from you. Regards Guannan From dfarren@uai.cl Fri Jun 17 15:25:30 2005 Received: from recreo.uai.cl ([192.245.60.10]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5HJPTLE029555 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:25:30 -0400 Received: from Derek (pc-111-66-104-200.cm.vtr.net [200.104.66.111]) by correo.uai.cl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 1 (built Aug 19 2002)) with ESMTPA id <0II8000N6TYGO7@correo.uai.cl> for modelling@swarm.org; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:25:29 -0400 (CLT) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:25:26 -0400 From: Derek Farren To: modelling@swarm.org Message-id: <000001c57372$51616310$6f4268c8@Derek> Organization: UAI MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_3LsHArQB7rR397jnctnxpQ)" Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Subject: [Swarm-Modelling] ABM validation X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:25:30 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_3LsHArQB7rR397jnctnxpQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello Everybody I come from the discrete simulation world, where the model's validation is a fundamental process. Usually, the models are predictive ones and means comparison is used to validate them. In all the agent based simulations I have seen there is not much emphasis on its validation.. Maybe it's because most agent based simulations are explicative and not predictive ones, but, on my eyes, some kind of validation should be done anyway. Why is that? Thanks, Derek Farren --Boundary_(ID_3LsHArQB7rR397jnctnxpQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hello Everybody

 

I come from the discrete simulation world, where the model’s validation is a fundamental process. Usually, the models are predictive ones and means comparison is used to validate them.

In all the agent based simulations I have seen there is not much emphasis on its validation…. Maybe it’s because most agent based simulations are explicative and not predictive ones, but, on my eyes, some kind of validation should be done anyway.

Why is that?

 

Thanks,

Derek Farren

 

--Boundary_(ID_3LsHArQB7rR397jnctnxpQ)-- From gross@tiem.utk.edu Fri Jun 17 15:45:46 2005 Received: from mail.tiem.utk.edu (mail.tiem.utk.edu [160.36.46.38]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j5HJjjhm031242 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:45:45 -0400 Message-Id: <200506171945.j5HJjjhm031242@cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu> Received: (qmail 4639 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2005 15:45:44 -0400 Received: from fragaria.tiem.utk.edu (160.36.40.65) by mail.tiem.utk.edu with SMTP; 17 Jun 2005 15:45:44 -0400 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:45:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Lou Gross Subject: Re: [Swarm-Modelling] ABM validation To: modelling@swarm.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: uX8lcHJzLvAAD3teOtzuvQ== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.4.8 SunOS 5.8 sun4u sparc X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Lou Gross , Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:45:46 -0000 Derek, There was a fairly long thread on validation on this list back in September 2003 under "comparing models". You might best go back and look through that to start. The term "validation" is used quite differently among different modeling groups, so I personally try to avoid using it in preference to model evaluation - which for me takes account directly of the purposes for which you have developed the model (e.g. predictive or other). Cheers, Lou Gross Professor of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology and Mathematics Director, The Institute for Environmental Modeling University of Tennessee - Knoxville President, Society for Mathematical Biology (www.smb.org) gross@tiem.utk.edu http://www.tiem.utk.edu/~gross/ http://atlss.org/ (ATLSS Project Home Page) http://www.tiem.utk.edu/bioed/ (Quantitative Life Sciences Education) From dfarren@uai.cl Mon Jun 20 19:49:18 2005 Received: from recreo.uai.cl ([192.245.60.10]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5KNnG3Y023415 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:49:17 -0400 Received: from Derek (pc-111-66-104-200.cm.vtr.net [200.104.66.111]) by correo.uai.cl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 1 (built Aug 19 2002)) with ESMTPA id <0IIE00G7SQ6248@correo.uai.cl> for modelling@swarm.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:49:15 -0400 (CLT) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:49:12 -0400 From: Derek Farren Subject: RE: [Swarm-Modelling] ABM validation In-reply-to: <200506171945.j5HJjjhm031242@cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu> To: "'Lou Gross'" , "'Swarm Modelling'" Message-id: <000001c575f2$ab4cce00$6f4268c8@Derek> Organization: UAI MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:49:18 -0000 Thanks. If someone is interested, here is the link: http://www.swarm.org/pipermail/modelling/2003-September/003441.html Derek -----Original Message----- From: modelling-bounces@swarm.org [mailto:modelling-bounces@swarm.org] On Behalf Of Lou Gross Sent: Viernes, 17 de Junio de 2005 03:45 p.m. To: modelling@swarm.org Subject: Re: [Swarm-Modelling] ABM validation Derek, There was a fairly long thread on validation on this list back in September 2003 under "comparing models". You might best go back and look through that to start. The term "validation" is used quite differently among different modeling groups, so I personally try to avoid using it in preference to model evaluation - which for me takes account directly of the purposes for which you have developed the model (e.g. predictive or other). Cheers, Lou Gross Professor of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology and Mathematics Director, The Institute for Environmental Modeling University of Tennessee - Knoxville President, Society for Mathematical Biology (www.smb.org) gross@tiem.utk.edu http://www.tiem.utk.edu/~gross/ http://atlss.org/ (ATLSS Project Home Page) http://www.tiem.utk.edu/bioed/ (Quantitative Life Sciences Education) _______________________________________________ Modelling mailing list Modelling@swarm.org http://www.swarm.org/mailman/listinfo/modelling From dfarren@uai.cl Mon Jun 20 20:09:31 2005 Received: from recreo.uai.cl ([192.245.60.10]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5L09Vb6024965 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:09:31 -0400 Received: from Derek (pc-111-66-104-200.cm.vtr.net [200.104.66.111]) by correo.uai.cl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 1 (built Aug 19 2002)) with ESMTPA id <0IIE00G0PR3T48@correo.uai.cl> for modelling@swarm.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:09:31 -0400 (CLT) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:09:29 -0400 From: Derek Farren To: modelling@swarm.org Message-id: <000001c575f5$7fa03410$6f4268c8@Derek> Organization: UAI MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_atAm05Ii2puTINp43TRyGg)" Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Subject: [Swarm-Modelling] confused about complex sistems... X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 00:09:32 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_atAm05Ii2puTINp43TRyGg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello. I made an economic simulation on Swarm. As an experiment I ran it with different agent's number and made the function f(number of agents) = product of the economy. I was expecting to found some kind of exponential function, because since it's a non linear complex system, I thought there must be some kind of increased returns on it. The function is linear.. Does it mean that my simulation is not modeling a complex system?? Or there could be some other non linearities hidden on it? Derek --Boundary_(ID_atAm05Ii2puTINp43TRyGg) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hello.

 

I made an economic simulation on Swarm. As an experiment I ran it with different agent’s number and made the function f(number of agents) = product of the economy. I was expecting to found some kind of exponential function, because since it’s a non linear complex system, I thought there must be some kind of increased returns on it.

The function is linear…. Does it mean that my simulation is not modeling a complex system?? Or there could be some other non linearities hidden on it?

 

Derek

--Boundary_(ID_atAm05Ii2puTINp43TRyGg)-- From dmschreiber@ucsd.edu Fri Jun 24 04:30:45 2005 Received: from mailbox7.ucsd.edu (mailbox7.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.59]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5O8Uint027057 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 04:30:45 -0400 Received: from smtp.ucsd.edu (smtp-a.ucsd.edu [132.239.1.49]) by mailbox7.ucsd.edu (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5O8UcO0013481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 01:30:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (pcp04263070pcs.fairmt01.pa.comcast.net [68.80.240.23]) by smtp.ucsd.edu (8.12.10/8.9.3) with ESMTP id j5O8UbTg017666 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 01:30:38 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: Swarm Modelling From: Darren Schreiber Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 04:30:36 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-MailScanner: PASSED (v1.2.8 4703 j5O8UcO0013481 mailbox7.ucsd.edu) Subject: [Swarm-Modelling] Communication models X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:30:45 -0000 I am going to be writing a chapter on agent-based modeling for an edited volume in the field of communications. I immediately thought of Paul Johnson's model from "Political Disagreement" and Axelrod's "Culture Model" as examples. Can anyone else suggest models in which communication is a central mechanism of concern or of which it is the phenomena being studied? I realize that this is a wide net, but I am interested to see what else is out there. Darren From vitorino.ramos@alfa.ist.utl.pt Fri Jun 24 05:55:23 2005 Received: from ciistr1.ist.utl.pt (ciistr1.ist.utl.pt [193.136.128.1]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5O9tMBX001840 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 05:55:23 -0400 Received: from ciistr3.ist.utl.pt (ciistr3.ist.utl.pt [193.136.128.3]) by ciistr1.ist.utl.pt (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14A41D9234A for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:55:11 +0100 (WEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ciistr3.ist.utl.pt (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0099570006F7 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:55:11 +0100 (WEST) Received: from ciistr3.ist.utl.pt ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ciistr3 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with LMTP id 08686-01-44 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:55:10 +0100 (WEST) Received: from mail.ist.utl.pt (mail.ist.utl.pt [193.136.128.8]) by ciistr3.ist.utl.pt (Postfix) with ESMTP id D102D70006CC for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:55:10 +0100 (WEST) Received: from Vramos.alfa.ist.utl.pt (a213-22-19-35.netcabo.pt [213.22.19.35]) (AUTH: LOGIN vitorino.ramos, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,168bits,DES-CBC3-SHA) by mail.ist.utl.pt with esmtp; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:55:10 +0100 Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.0.20050624104457.0267dc30@mail.ist.utl.pt> X-Sender: vitorino.ramos@mail.ist.utl.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:55:43 +0100 To: Swarm Modelling From: Vitorino RAMOS Subject: Re: [Swarm-Modelling] Communication models In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at ist.utl.pt Cc: X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:55:23 -0000 At 09:30 24-06-2005, you wrote: >I am going to be writing a chapter on agent-based modeling for an edited >volume in the field of communications. I immediately thought of Paul >Johnson's model from "Political Disagreement" and Axelrod's "Culture >Model" as examples. Can anyone else suggest models in which communication >is a central mechanism of concern or of which it is the phenomena being >studied? I realize that this is a wide net, but I am interested to see >what else is out there. > > Darren > > Dear Darren: Probably interesting to you as a lateral paradigm is the use of indirect communication in a society via Stigmergy. The concept is one of the most powerful examples of self-organization found in nature among real ants and termites (eusocial insects) and widely use among the area of Swarm Intelligence as well as in a variety of applications. Have a look for instance here (PDF available): http://alfa.ist.utl.pt/~cvrm/staff/vramos/ref_58.html or: http://alfa.ist.utl.pt/~cvrm/staff/vramos/ref_42.html http://alfa.ist.utl.pt/~cvrm/staff/vramos/ref_29.html http://alfa.ist.utl.pt/~cvrm/staff/vramos/ref_39.html among other work examples. Hope these could be helpful. Best, Vitorino ~ v. ramos, http://alfa.ist.utl.pt/~cvrm/staff/vramos, "Interactions among many sporuliferous and ubiquitous abstractions may lead to increasing reality", V. Ramos, 2001. From LRA@Northcoast.com Fri Jun 24 13:35:29 2005 Received: from borg.inreach.com (mail.northcoast.com [209.142.2.71]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j5OHZSq3008627 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:35:29 -0400 Received: (qmail 14064 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2005 17:32:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?209.209.20.64?) (209.209.20.64) by mail.northcoast.com with SMTP; 24 Jun 2005 17:32:22 -0000 Message-ID: <42BC445B.3010006@Northcoast.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:35:23 -0700 From: Steve Railsback User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Swarm Modelling Subject: Re: [Swarm-Modelling] Communication models References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:35:29 -0000 Darren Schreiber wrote: > > I am going to be writing a chapter on agent-based modeling for an edited > volume in the field of communications. I immediately thought of Paul > Johnson's model from "Political Disagreement" and Axelrod's "Culture > Model" as examples. Can anyone else suggest models in which > communication is a central mechanism of concern or of which it is the > phenomena being studied? I realize that this is a wide net, but I am > interested to see what else is out there. Hi Darren, Volker Grimm and I discuss what we call "interaction" in ecological ABMs, in Chapter 5 of our book (which is just leaving the printing plant and should be in distribution in a few days). In writing the section, I posted a similar enquiry here. The key examples I got in response were: Axelrod, R., R. L. Riolo, and M. D. Cohen. 2001. Beyond geography: cooperation with persistent links in the absense of clustered neighborhoods. Personality and Social Psychology Review 6:341-346. Cohen, M. D., R. L. Riolo, and R. Axelrod. 2001. The role of social structure in the maintenance of cooperative regimes. Rationality and Society 13:5-32. Gmytrasiewicz, P. J., and E. H. Durfee. 2001. Rational communication in multi-agent environments. Autonomous Agents and Multi-agent Systems 4:272. Nowak, M. A., and K. Sigmund. 1998. Evolution of indirect reciprocity by image scoring. Nature, 393, 573–577. We discussed 3 kinds of interaction or communication: (1) Direct, when agents directly exchange information with each other (or fight or kill each other...), (2) Mediated, in which communication is via consumption or production of a shared resource, and (3) Interaction fields, where agents respond to the combined effects of multiple neighbors. Steve From gepr@tempusdictum.com Fri Jun 24 14:17:41 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain (dsl-485.cascadeaccess.com [64.233.106.229]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5OIHeTg012262 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:17:40 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=[127.0.0.1] ident=gepr) by localhost.localdomain with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DlsjV-0001PU-EM; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:16:53 -0700 Message-ID: <42BC4E15.1010000@tempusdictum.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:16:53 -0700 From: "glen e. p. ropella" User-Agent: Debian Thunderbird 1.0.2 (X11/20050331) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Swarm Modelling Subject: Re: [Swarm-Modelling] Communication models References: <42BC445B.3010006@Northcoast.com> In-Reply-To: <42BC445B.3010006@Northcoast.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.91.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:17:41 -0000 Steve Railsback wrote: > We discussed 3 kinds of interaction or communication: (1) Direct, when > agents directly exchange information with each other (or fight or kill > each other...), (2) Mediated, in which communication is via consumption > or production of a shared resource, and (3) Interaction fields, where > agents respond to the combined effects of multiple neighbors. Since we are talking about "agents", it might be appropriate to extend (2) (or, perhaps it's a hybrid between all 3 of your categories) to include "proxies" or communication where the source of the transmission is one actor and the content of the transmission sits (or is processed/modified) inside and moves between other actors for some period before reaching its destination. (It's "communication" when it's semantic and general interaction when it may not be semantic.) I don't think this type of interaction fits well into (2) or (3), especially when the interstitial agents really are proxies rather than actors in their own right. The less processing the intermediating agents do, the less accurate (1) and (3) are as descriptions of the causal chain. The more processing the intermediating agents do, the less accurate (2) is. Ultimately, of course, all of it boils down to (1). The other categories are abstractions, especially in a message-passing or event-based ontology. The real question is what level of discourse is the most important for any given model. Can a "space" be an actor in the context of machine X modeling system Y? Does it make sense to say that object A communicates semantically with object B? Is the interaction pure simulus-response reactivity (data-driven) or is there logic (i.e. inference, abstraction, semantics) inside the objects? These are all questions that impact the usefulness of a model as a story-telling device. -- glen e. p. ropella =><= Hail Eris! H: 503-630-4505 http://ropella.net/~gepr M: 503-971-3846 http://tempusdictum.com From van.parunak@altarum.org Fri Jun 24 14:28:50 2005 Received: from smtp113.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp113.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com [68.142.229.92]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j5OISoOT013099 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:28:50 -0400 Received: (qmail 50878 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2005 18:28:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vparun-L0440.altarum.org) (van.parunak@sbcglobal.net@66.174.76.201 with login) by smtp113.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jun 2005 18:27:58 -0000 Received: from unknown [70.202.99.88] by 66.174.76.201; 24 Jun 2005 19:34:09 +0100 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20050624142723.03130ee0@204.106.28.96> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:30:30 -0400 To: modelling@swarm.org From: Van Parunak In-Reply-To: <200506241600.j5OG02l9000450@cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu> References: <200506241600.j5OG02l9000450@cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [Swarm-Modelling] Re: Communication models X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:28:51 -0000 Darren, Vitorino, We offer a taxonomy of multiagent communications models that you might find useful in the following paper: H. V. D. Parunak, S. Brueckner, M. Fleischer, and J. Odell. A Design Taxonomy of Multi-Agent Interactions. In Proceedings of Agent-Oriented Software Engineering IV, Melbourne, AU, pages 123-137, Springer, 2003. www.altarum.net/~vparunak/cox.pdf. It categorizes agent interaction as direct vs. indirect and centralized vs. decentralized; stigmergy falls into the indirect decentralized category. It also relates communication to broader issues of correlation, coordination, cooperation, and coherence. Best, Van Parunak >**************************************** ---------- Dr. H. Van Dyke Parunak, Chief Scientist, Altarum Institute van.parunak@altarum.org www.altarum.net/~vparunak v: +1 734 302 4684 f: +1 734 302 4991 Altarum Institute 3520 Green Court, Suite 300 Ann Arbor, MI 48105-1579 From vitorino.ramos@alfa.ist.utl.pt Fri Jun 24 14:51:30 2005 Received: from ciistr1.ist.utl.pt (ciistr1.ist.utl.pt [193.136.128.1]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5OIpTDq015175 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:51:29 -0400 Received: from ciistr3.ist.utl.pt (ciistr3.ist.utl.pt [193.136.128.3]) by ciistr1.ist.utl.pt (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A2A6D95912 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:51:28 +0100 (WEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ciistr3.ist.utl.pt (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FF8570001BD for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:50:56 +0100 (WEST) Received: from ciistr3.ist.utl.pt ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ciistr3 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with LMTP id 24018-01-78 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:50:56 +0100 (WEST) Received: from mail.ist.utl.pt (mail.ist.utl.pt [193.136.128.8]) by ciistr3.ist.utl.pt (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72A4D70001ED for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:50:56 +0100 (WEST) Received: from Vramos.alfa.ist.utl.pt ([81.84.170.87]) (AUTH: LOGIN vitorino.ramos, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,168bits,DES-CBC3-SHA) by mail.ist.utl.pt with esmtp; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:50:56 +0100 Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.0.20050624193923.026057e0@mail.ist.utl.pt> X-Sender: vitorino.ramos@mail.ist.utl.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:51:30 +0100 To: Swarm Modelling From: Vitorino RAMOS Subject: Re: [Swarm-Modelling] Re: Communication models In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050624142723.03130ee0@204.106.28.96> References: <200506241600.j5OG02l9000450@cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu> <6.2.1.2.2.20050624142723.03130ee0@204.106.28.96> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at ist.utl.pt X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:51:30 -0000 Darren, Parunak, Thanks. For more substantive info about Stigmergy please have a look on a special issue dedicated to the subject at ARTIFICIAL LIFE, MIT Press Journal, vol. 5, issue 2, Spring 1999 http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=5&tid=616 . I also recommend the book "Swarm Intelligence" by Bonabeau and Dorigo. For those looking on this type of indirect communication over dynamic environments, I also have a very recent work, here: http://alfa.ist.utl.pt/~cvrm/staff/vramos/ref_59.html and a related video http://alfa.ist.utl.pt/~cvrm/staff/vramos/ICANN05-movie.gif The work is compared with work based on social foraging in Bacteria. Best, vitorino ~ v. ramos, http://alfa.ist.utl.pt/~cvrm/staff/vramos, "Interactions among many sporuliferous and ubiquitous abstractions may lead to increasing reality", V. Ramos, 2001. At 19:30 24-06-2005, Parunak wrote: >Darren, Vitorino, > >We offer a taxonomy of multiagent communications models that you might >find useful in the following paper: > >H. V. D. Parunak, S. Brueckner, M. Fleischer, and J. Odell. A Design >Taxonomy of Multi-Agent Interactions. In Proceedings of Agent-Oriented >Software Engineering IV, Melbourne, AU, pages 123-137, Springer, 2003. >www.altarum.net/~vparunak/cox.pdf. > >It categorizes agent interaction as direct vs. indirect and centralized >vs. decentralized; stigmergy falls into the indirect decentralized >category. It also relates communication to broader issues of correlation, >coordination, cooperation, and coherence. > >Best, >Van Parunak At 10:55 24-06-2005, Vitorino wrote: >Dear Darren: > >Probably interesting to you as a lateral paradigm is the use of indirect >communication in a society via Stigmergy. The concept is one of the most >powerful examples of self-organization found in nature among real ants and >termites (eusocial insects) and widely use among the area of Swarm >Intelligence as well as in a variety of applications. Have a look for >instance here (PDF available): > >http://alfa.ist.utl.pt/~cvrm/staff/vramos/ref_58.html > >or: > >http://alfa.ist.utl.pt/~cvrm/staff/vramos/ref_42.html >http://alfa.ist.utl.pt/~cvrm/staff/vramos/ref_29.html >http://alfa.ist.utl.pt/~cvrm/staff/vramos/ref_39.html > >among other work examples. Hope these could be helpful. Best, Vitorino From pauljohn@ku.edu Fri Jun 24 17:18:24 2005 Received: from lark.cc.ku.edu (lark.cc.ku.edu [129.237.34.2]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5OLINA9027672 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:18:24 -0400 Received: from localhost by lark.cc.ku.edu (8.8.8/1.1.8.2/12Jan95-0207PM) id QAA0000013119; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:18:16 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:18:16 -0500 (CDT) From: pauljohn X-Sender: pauljohn@lark.cc.ku.edu To: Swarm Modelling Subject: Re: [Swarm-Modelling] Communication models In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:18:24 -0000 I've often wanted to compare communication of ideas to spread of illnesses. This made me wish that some of our colleagues in medicine and epidemiology who had done Swarm models would step forward with some code on disease contagion and so forth. I know such models have been done, but have not seen code donated. Are any of you reading? pj On Fri, 24 Jun 2005, Darren Schreiber wrote: > > I am going to be writing a chapter on agent-based modeling for an > edited volume in the field of communications. I immediately thought of > Paul Johnson's model from "Political Disagreement" and Axelrod's > "Culture Model" as examples. Can anyone else suggest models in which > communication is a central mechanism of concern or of which it is the > phenomena being studied? I realize that this is a wide net, but I am > interested to see what else is out there. > > Darren From jmadden@ics.uci.edu Fri Jun 24 18:01:44 2005 Received: from smtp2.es.uci.edu (smtp2.es.uci.edu [128.200.80.5]) by cscs01.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5OM1hSb031791 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:01:43 -0400 Received: from [128.195.31.79] (dhcp31-79.ics.uci.edu [128.195.31.79]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp2.es.uci.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5OM1Dkc019520 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:01:39 -0700 X-UCInetID: jmadden In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v730) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Joshua O'Madadhain" Subject: Re: [Swarm-Modelling] Communication models Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:01:54 -0700 To: Swarm Modelling X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.730) X-NACS_ES-MailScanner: No viruses found X-MailScanner-From: jmadden@ics.uci.edu Cc: Joshua O'Madadhain X-BeenThere: modelling@swarm.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Swarm Modelling List-Id: Swarm Modelling List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:01:44 -0000 I don't know about Swarm models, but there has been a fair amount of work done on this subject by researchers in social network analysis. If you're interested, the SOCNET mailing list would be a good place to ask this question (although a bit of judicious Googling would probably get you a few articles to start with). Joshua O'Madadhain On 24 Jun 2005, at 14:18, pauljohn wrote: > > I've often wanted to compare communication of ideas to spread of > illnesses. > > This made me wish that some of our colleagues in medicine and > epidemiology > who had done Swarm models would step forward with some code on disease > contagion and so forth. I know such models have been done, but > have not > seen code donated. > > Are any of you reading? > > pj > > On Fri, 24 Jun 2005, Darren Schreiber wrote: > > > >> >> I am going to be writing a chapter on agent-based modeling for an >> edited volume in the field of communications. I immediately >> thought of >> Paul Johnson's model from "Political Disagreement" and Axelrod's >> "Culture Model" as examples. Can anyone else suggest models in which >> communication is a central mechanism of concern or of which it is the >> phenomena being studied? I realize that this is a wide net, but I am >> interested to see what else is out there. >> >> Darren >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Modelling mailing list > Modelling@swarm.org > http://www.swarm.org/mailman/listinfo/modelling > > jmadden@ics.uci.edu...Obscurium Per Obscurius...www.ics.uci.edu/ ~jmadden Joshua O'Madadhain: Information Scientist, Musician, Philosopher- At-Tall It's that moment of dawning comprehension that I live for--Bill Watterson My opinions are too rational and insightful to be those of any organization.