From majordom Sun Nov 30 23:29:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07595; Sun, 30 Nov 97 23:29:48 MST Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 00:24:27 -0600 (CST) From: Paul Johnson X-Sender: pauljohn@localhost To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: More Swarm Beginner mistakes/questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971121091101.00913c90@spidle2.humsci.auburn.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu As I make these mistakes and learn from them, I'm going to ask if I've learned the right lessons and then other users might not blunder so badly. Lesson 1. Lists swallow objects and erase them. I was surprised that an object, called "current", turned up empty after I added this code: policyList = [List create: [self getZone]]; [policyList addLast: current]; I don't think the documentation makes it crystal clear that when you add an object to a list, it disappears from view and won't answer messages anymore. Right? The only way I could make the rest of it work is this (an idea stolen from the observerBug approach in on of the tutorials): current = [policyList removeLast]; [policyList addLast: current]; This gets the last object from the list, calls it current AGAIN, and puts it back in the list. That makes the program run fine, but it seems weird. Question 1A: If things happen to the object "current" in the program, do they happen to the object that was put into the list, brought back out, copied ?and put back in? Know what I mean? Question 1B: If the list actually did swallow the object, and it sure did in this case, why am I able to add the second code to put values back into the place holder "current"? Shouldn't the name current have disappeared and its memory been dropped by the process that put it in the list to begin with? Lesson 2. There are some funky problems that can happen if you choose swarm-official-names for things! I had methods called getX and getY that were used to access values from an object. As long as the return values were integers, it was OK. But when I changed them to floats, all hell broke loose about conflicting definitions of getX and getY. I wish I had copied the exact compiler syntax, but it was telling me that it was going to use (int)getX because it found that in swarm-1.0.3/include/tk.... So I went through and renamed those methods to getPolX and getPolY, and it works! Is it generally known that you can't have two methods of the same name if they have differnt return types? Lesson 3. The Grid2d space for zoomRaster accepts only integers, right? so the drawSelfOn method would not work if the X and Y are doubles. However, if I just cast them as ints, I get "rounded" output, right, so 14.544 is seen as 14 and the grid looks approximate? Right? (Here's the code. ideal is a 2-D array of floats) -drawSelfOn: (Raster *) r { [r drawPointX: (int) ideal[0] Y: (int) ideal[1] Color: 1]; return self; Lesson 4. The lack of a matrix algebra/vector passing ability seems to be a problem for me. If the ideal array were a ten dimensional thing, it would get really inconvenient to individually refer to coordinates. I've gotten around some problems by passing in an object that contains such an array. That works, until one object has to tell the other what its array is. The only way I can figure to pass them out is to write one method for each dimension and give them one floating point number at a time. (Hence a method getPolX has to be written that has "return ideal[0]" and a method getPolY has a "return ideal[1]" and then the object that receives those messages converts them back into an array with newarray[0]=[thatobject getX] and newarray[1]=[thatobject getY]. Well, as I said, I'm writing this down to document the Swarm beginner experience and if you help answer my questions, I'll be happier for it. Paul E. Johnson pauljohn@ukans.edu Dept. of Political Science Office: (913) 864-9086 University of Kansas FAX: (913) 864-5700 Lawrence, Kansas 66045 Home: (913) 842-9916 ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 1 04:39:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10307; Mon, 1 Dec 97 04:39:03 MST Message-Id: <3482B06F.3B4E75AD@rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 07:41:19 -0500 From: Rob Kewley Organization: US Army X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.0 i586) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Organization Self-Design References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Thomas A Ottaway wrote: > > Hello, > > I would like to model several forms of organizational self-desig. I would > like to have an agent, under predetermined conditions, decompose into two > or more agents, complete their respective subtasks, and then recombine. > Esentially, I want to repeat some work done by Ishida, Yokoo, and Gasser > for different purposes. Can Swarm handle this type of > decomposition/composition of agents. Thanks for any assistance. > Thomas: I am sure swarm can handle the task you wish. There is no built-in mechanism for your specific task. However, the simplest implementation would be to use a dynamic schedule for your simulation and allow the agents to schedule events for themselves. For example, if one of an agent's recurring tasks is "update," then at the end of each update, it would schedule the next update for itself at the appropriate "updateInterval". As for decomposing, you may never want to destroy the original agent. When the agent decomposes, it should create the two (or more) subordinate agents then schedule the necessary actions for those agents on the dynamic schedule. The original agent simply stops scheduling events for itself until it gets messages from the subordinate agents which state they have completed their sub tasks. When the original agent receives all such messages, it simply begins scheduling events for itself again. Hope this helps. I am sure there are other ways to do what you want, but this is one way. Rob Kewley ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 1 04:47:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10396; Mon, 1 Dec 97 04:47:04 MST Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:42:27 GMT From: RHS Linux User Message-Id: <199712011142.LAA22076@cts18.cv.ic.ac.uk> To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: star * * * .... Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu I have problems in understanding the "*" signs in swarm programs, are those related with Smalltalk, or something else. I only know in C, * will be used to indicate a variable is a pointer, but what about these: (from HeatBugs application) HeatbugModelSwarm * heatbugModelSwarm Xcolormap * colormap main(int argc, char ** argv) -drawSelfOn: (Raster *) r; Would anyone please explain the * and ** here, and if possible point me a reference about the SWARM usage conventions? Many Thanks! ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 1 04:54:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10468; Mon, 1 Dec 97 04:54:53 MST Message-Id: <3482B424.5827E6AF@rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 07:57:08 -0500 From: Rob Kewley Organization: US Army X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.0 i586) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: More Swarm Beginner mistakes/questions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Below are some comments and additions. I have had similar experiences. Paul Johnson wrote: > > As I make these mistakes and learn from them, I'm going to > ask if I've learned the right lessons and then other > users might not blunder so badly. > > Lesson 1. Lists swallow objects and erase them. > I was surprised that an object, called "current", turned up > empty after I added this code: > > policyList = [List create: [self getZone]]; > [policyList addLast: current]; > > I don't think the documentation makes it crystal clear that when > you add an object to a list, it disappears from view and won't > answer messages anymore. Right? I have never seen this phenomenon. I add objects to lists all the time and am still able to refer to them in other places in the program. Lists certainly don't swallow them up. > Lesson 2. There are some funky problems that can happen if you choose > swarm-official-names for things!...Is it generally known that you > can't have two methods of the same name if they have differnt return types? I learned the same lesson myself the hard way. Perhaps it should be (or maybe it already is) in the documentation somewhere. > Lesson 4. The lack of a matrix algebra/vector passing ability seems to be a > problem for me. If the ideal array were a ten dimensional thing, it would get > really inconvenient to individually refer to coordinates. I've gotten around > some problems by passing in an object that contains such an array. That > works, until one object has to tell the other what its array is. The only > way I can figure to pass them out is to write one method for each dimension and > give them one floating point number at a time. (Hence a method getPolX has to be > written that has "return ideal[0]" and a method getPolY has a "return ideal[1]" > and then the object that receives those messages converts them back into an > array with newarray[0]=[thatobject getX] and newarray[1]=[thatobject getY]. > You could get your desired result by having your matrix object return a pointer to a simple C array containing the appropriate values. I think at the core of your question is the lack of standardized collection objects to hold anything other than other objects (or integers cast to id). The addition of List, array, map etc objects for double values would be a tremendous help to me in particular. I currently implement these in C. Perhaps someone knows of a good swarm compatible objective C library out there that already contains these objects. Rob Kewley ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 1 05:30:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10931; Mon, 1 Dec 97 05:30:16 MST Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:36:33 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Riolo To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: star * * * .... In-Reply-To: <199712011142.LAA22076@cts18.cv.ic.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu The *'s mean the same thing in Swarm (ie in objectiveC) as they do in C. Recall, objectiveC is just a superset of C, with a very few additions to the langange. Thus as you surmised, one star means a pointer to a variable; two stars just means a pointer to a pointer to a variable. You may be confused by the spacing in the examples you show. Those could be written: HeatbugModelSwarm *heatbugModelSwarm; main(int argc, char **argv) which I find makes the meaning more clear, but that is a programming style choice, which is, of course, just style (with most or all that implies!). The former says the heatbugModelSwarm variable is a pointer to a HeatbugModelSwarm object. One convention (ie not requried regularity) you will see in these examples is that variables start in lower case, and have subsequent run-on words start with uppercase letters. Class names start uppercase, and similarly have uppercase-starting words. I believe the Swarm online docs have a page about Swarm and objectiveC conventions, as well as a pointer to the online objectiveC manual. The **argv is the starndard convention for handling run-time parameters through the main entry point to all C programs...any C intro will explain that. - r Rick Riolo rlriolo@umich.edu Program for Study of Complex Systems (PSCS) 4068 Randall Lab University of Michigan Ann Arbor MI 48109-1120 Phone: 313 763 3323 Fax: 313 763 9267 http://pscs.physics.lsa.umich.edu/PEOPLE/rlr-home.html http://pscs.physics.lsa.umich.edu//pscs.html On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, RHS Linux User wrote: > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:42:27 GMT > From: RHS Linux User > To: swarm-support@santafe.edu > Subject: star * * * .... > > I have problems in understanding the "*" signs in swarm programs, are > those related with Smalltalk, or something else. I only know in > C, * will be used to indicate a variable is a pointer, but what about > these: > > (from HeatBugs application) > HeatbugModelSwarm * heatbugModelSwarm > Xcolormap * colormap > main(int argc, char ** argv) > -drawSelfOn: (Raster *) r; > > Would anyone please explain the * and ** here, and if possible point me > a reference about the SWARM usage conventions? > > Many Thanks! > > ================================== > Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day > to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. > [un]subscribing), please send a message to > with "help" in the body of the message. > ================================== > ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 1 07:39:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12336; Mon, 1 Dec 97 07:39:59 MST Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:39:56 -0700 From: cgl@sfi.santafe.edu Message-Id: <199712011439.HAA01874@santafe.santafe.edu> To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Organization Self-Design Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Thomas A Ottaway writes: > I would like to model several forms of organizational self-desig. I would > like to have an agent, under predetermined conditions, decompose into two > or more agents, complete their respective subtasks, and then recombine. > Esentially, I want to repeat some work done by Ishida, Yokoo, and Gasser > for different purposes. Can Swarm handle this type of > decomposition/composition of agents. Thanks for any assistance. This is one of the reasons we made Swarm capable of hierarchical composition (or decomposition), and this is a good case where you might use that capability.... Keep in mind that a swarm is also an object, hence an agent-object in one swarm can itself be a swarm. Since it is an object, it can have methods that it executes just like any other agent-object, however, since it is also a swarm, some of those methods can invoke a schedule over its own collection of agents. Thus, you can have the agent-object act like a single agent at some times, but as a collection of agents at other times. Chris Langton ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 1 09:38:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14710; Mon, 1 Dec 97 09:38:48 MST Message-Id: <9712011638.AA14705@sfi.santafe.edu> From: Ginger Booth Subject: Java i/f To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 11:29:22 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Dear y'all, Any more recent news on when the latest Swarm release is due out? Have some interested parties from Germany showing up in an hour. Thanks, Ginger ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 1 12:36:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19094; Mon, 1 Dec 97 12:36:00 MST Subject: Swarm on Rhapsody? To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 03:35:49 +0800 (WST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 541 From: "Martin Dougiamas" Message-Id: <19971201193549.AAA22007@complex.curtin.edu.au> Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hi. I'm still trying to find the time to get properly into Swarm ... being so busy finishing other projects, but since I'm getting back to study and starting my full-time Masters next year (which will use Swarm, in part)... it looks like I'll finally have more time. I'm particularly interested in running Swarm on the new Rhapsody OS next year, which from early indications will be an exciting platform. Is there an effort to port it to Rhapsody already under way? Is there any work going ahead on the Java version? Cheers, Martin ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 1 13:43:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20497; Mon, 1 Dec 97 13:43:02 MST Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:45:21 -0800 (PST) From: "Doug Donalson;" To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Cc: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: star * * * .... In-Reply-To: <199712011142.LAA22076@cts18.cv.ic.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu It is a pointer, in this case to an object. *************************************************************************** * Doug Donalson * Office: (805) 893-2962 * * Ecology, Evolution, and Marine Biology * Home: (805) 961-4447 * * UC Santa Barbara * email donalson@lifesci.ucsb.edu* * Santa Barbara Ca. 93106 * * *************************************************************************** * * * The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that * * heralds new discoveries, is not "EUREKA" (I have found it) but * * "That's funny ...?" * * * * Isaac Asimov * * * *************************************************************************** On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, RHS Linux User wrote: > I have problems in understanding the "*" signs in swarm programs, are > those related with Smalltalk, or something else. I only know in > C, * will be used to indicate a variable is a pointer, but what about > these: > > (from HeatBugs application) > HeatbugModelSwarm * heatbugModelSwarm > Xcolormap * colormap > main(int argc, char ** argv) > -drawSelfOn: (Raster *) r; > > Would anyone please explain the * and ** here, and if possible point me > a reference about the SWARM usage conventions? > > Many Thanks! > > ================================== > Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day > to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. > [un]subscribing), please send a message to > with "help" in the body of the message. > ================================== > ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 2 10:20:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06245; Tue, 2 Dec 97 10:20:24 MST Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:18:20 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Cline X-Sender: kcline@loon To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: More Swarm Beginner mistakes/questions In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Paul Johnson wrote: > Lesson 1. Lists swallow objects and erase them. > I was surprised that an object, called "current", turned up > empty after I added this code: Like Rob, I've never seen this one. > Lesson 2. There are some funky problems that can happen if you choose > swarm-official-names for things! ... Yup! Unlike C++ and Java, objC doesn't support multiple method signatures, AFAIK, however there may be a compiler argument which tells it to ignore conflicting definitions. Another alternative is use `id's wherever possible, but this doesn't help you with the getX/getY conflict. > Lesson 3. The Grid2d space for zoomRaster accepts only integers, > right? so the drawSelfOn method would not work if the X and Y > are doubles. However, if I just cast them as ints, I get "rounded" > output, right, so 14.544 is seen as 14 and the grid looks approximate? > Right? Right. Technically the values are truncated and, one way or another, this would happen, ie you can't draw something at pixel 14.544. BTW, if you want to round then one technique would be to add 0.5 before casting to an int. > Lesson 4. The lack of a matrix algebra/vector passing ability seems to be a > problem for me. If the ideal array were a ten dimensional thing, it would get > really inconvenient to individually refer to coordinates. I've gotten around > some problems by passing in an object that contains such an array. That > works, until one object has to tell the other what its array is. The only > way I can figure to pass them out is to write one method for each dimension and > give them one floating point number at a time. (Hence a method getPolX has to be > written that has "return ideal[0]" and a method getPolY has a "return ideal[1]" > and then the object that receives those messages converts them back into an > array with newarray[0]=[thatobject getX] and newarray[1]=[thatobject getY]. `getX', `getY', etc. only make sense for about 3 dimensions, ie x, y, and z. If you are doing more than 3 dimensions then why not have a more general method: -(double) getCoordinate: (int) index { if ( index > DIMENSION ) raiseEvent( InvalidArgument, "index > Dimension!\n" ); return ideal[ index ]; } or possibly: -(BOOL) getCoordinates: (double []) dblArray From: (int) start To: (int) end { int i; if ( !dblArray ) { raiseEvent( WarningMessage, "dblArray is nil ?\n" ); return FALSE; } if ( start > end ) { raiseEvent( WarningMessage, "start > end ?\n" ); return FALSE; } if ( sizeof(dblArray) / sizeof( double ) <= end - start ) { raiseEvent( WarningMessage, "dblArray is too small?\n" ); return FALSE; } for ( i = start; i <= end; i++ ) { dblArray[ i ] = ideal[ i ]; } return TRUE; } I haven't tested any of this, of course. I hope this helps. Ken. PS: Personally, I prefer to make dblArray a `double *' instead of a `double []', but then you can't check the size. Of course, checking the size isn't necessary so may want to just take that out ayway. _________________________________________________________ Ken Cline kcline@c3i.saic.com SAIC VOICE (410) 571-0413 Annapolis, MD FAX (301) 261-8427 ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 2 10:45:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06929; Tue, 2 Dec 97 10:45:21 MST Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:36:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199712021736.KAA00621@elf115.elf.org> From: Irene Anne Lee Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: swarm-announce@santafe.edu Subject: The Pheromone VolumeIII Issue 3 X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under Emacs 19.34.1 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu The Swarm SFI-Hive Pheromone Volume 3, Issue 3 December 2, 1997 The Pheromone will stand to inform users of the activities and goals of the hive and user community. Contributions are accepted that announce Swarm-related events or activities in any of the growing Swarm colonies around the world. To contribute, send e-mail to swarm@santafe.edu. The Pheromone is mailed out on Tuesday (or.... maybe Wednesday) if and only if there is information to be disseminated. Table of Contents ----------------- I. Incorporation update II. User Community Page updates A. Website for Arborgames B. link to an IW effort at DISA III. New Stuff from the Users A. Web page on Individual-based models IV. Java GUI Progress Report V. Charging Toward 1.0.4 VI. Call for Participation in SwarmFest '98 ======================================================================== I. Incorporation update Progress has been made on drawing up the incorporation documents for the Swarm Development Group. The Swarm Development Group is being incorporated as a not-for-profit corporation dedicated to the coordination and support of Swarm software development across multiple distributed sites. The next step is to file the application and hold the initial meeting of the board of directors to adopt the bylaws and elect the officers of the corporation. II. User Community Page updates A. Arborgames website Melissa Savage (UCLA), Bob Bell (UCLA), and Bruce Sawhill (Bios) have built a model of forest dynamics whose goal is to examine the role of fire on species diversity. A link to the source code for Arborgames, as the app is called, was added to the User Community page. B. IW effort at DISA Dr. John Dockery and associates at Defense Information Systems Agency (Headquarters, Arlington VA) are building a model for Information Warfare Simulation based on SWARM. A link to their web page is available from the User Community page. III. New Stuff from the Users A. Web page on individual-based models Members of the Swarm community may be interested in a new web page I've put together, an annotated list of links on individual-based models. The page contains a wide variety of models from many fields, with a bit of a bias towards models using spatially explicit mobile agents in continuous space. Several of the referenced models are built on Swarm. Please visit the page, and forward any comments or suggestions to me (cwr@red.com): http://hmt.com/cwr/ibm.html --Craig Reynolds IV. Java GUI Progress Report Doug is finishing up the alpha which will have heatbugs in all its glory working with Java. After that, he is hoping to have the remaining applications working for a beta in December. V. Charging Toward 1.0.4 Release 1.0.4 is expected on December 8th. In addition to the Java GUI, various changes and fixes will be incorporated: Ken's additions to InFile and XColorMap, Manor's mods to NodeItem.m, Sven's AppendFile and reverse QSort. Dwight's safe probes Probe and control panel positioning Print format in probes Changes to seeds in random.m Raster int in Tkobj.c Raster unset color in Tkobj.c IV. SwarmFest '98 Call for Participation SwarmFest '98 is going to be a gathering of Swarm Users to meet and discuss all technical aspects of using Swarm, share ideas, etc. This year we would like to hold a two day GIS gathering immediately following SwarmFest '98. The GIS gathering is for those interested in Geographic Information Systems. At this point in the planning of Swarmfest '98, we would like to know the following: (email lee@santafe.edu with SwarmFest '98 in the subject field) Are you interested in coming to Santa Fe for SwarmFest '98? Are you available March 20-24 1998? Would you like to attend the 2 days of Swarm sessions? Would you like to attend the 2 days of GIS meeting? Would you like to attend Swarm tutorial sessions? ========= The Swarm Pheromone is created by the members of the Swarm project at the Santa Fe Institute. For more information on the Swarm Project, see http://www.santafe.edu/projects/swarm. Comments, corrections, and contributions should be sent to swarm@santafe.edu. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 2 16:04:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11993; Tue, 2 Dec 97 16:04:24 MST Message-Id: <348494D7.544D@one.net> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 18:08:07 -0500 From: bleydorf@one.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: java vs. tcl/tk??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hi, Its exciting to see that 1.0.4 is just around the corner. But, this brings up a question...I have seen (at my local computer book source), a book on Tcl/tk for only 4 bucks. Would it be a waste of money to get this, since java is going to replace tcl/tk? Or would it still make sense to spend 4 bucks for a good reference book...? Is 1.0.4 going to be the NT version? If not, when is it going to be released? Thanks, Brad. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 2 21:38:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15812; Tue, 2 Dec 97 21:38:39 MST Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971202222754.00992100@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: sthomme@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 22:27:54 -0600 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu From: "Sven N. Thommesen" Subject: Comparing platforms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hi all! In the process of updating the random library a tiny bit, we've had occasion to run some timing tests on the random library objects on various platforms. I report some of the results here for everyone's entertainment ;-) All timings below are in microseconds per method call, so smaller is better. (Timings approximate only, since other processes may have stolen cpu time.) PPro200 PPro200 486-66 486-66 Linux Linux Linux Linux (none) -O3 (none) -O3 MT19937 (Unsigned) 0.6248 0.4049 4.0737 2.8580 MT19937 (thinDouble) 0.9433 0.6700 5.9959 4.4981 MT19937 (longDouble) 1.7966 1.1760 11.0074 8.2753 RandomBitDist 0.8917 0.6093 6.0610 4.7801 UniformUnsignedDist 1.2069 0.8017 7.5652 5.3587 NormalDist 4.5146 2.9832 26.8641 20.7184 GammaDist 20.5054 14.4654 123.5773 96.8614 Alpha Alpha IndyIP22 UltraSparc1 UltraSparc2 NetBSD NetBSD Irix Solaris Solaris (none) -O3 -O3? -O3 -mv8 -O3 -mv8 MT19937 (Unsigned) 2.6202 1.3098 3.0426 0.8876 0.5865 MT19937 (thinDouble) 3.5646 2.3440 4.2347 1.2444 0.8339 MT19937 (longDouble) 6.8918 3.2083 7.5072 44.9798 30.6577 RandomBitDist 5.3116 1.6797 4.3328 1.4739 0.8514 UniformUnsignedDist 7.2316 5.3633 5.2007 1.8591 1.1647 NormalDist 22.1530 16.5018 16.9574 72.1065 44.2907 GammaDist 93.9495 70.5389 76.0339 326.2035 212.7963 Some obvious comments: a) optimization (-O3) matters! b) A Pentium Pro is not a bad place to be -- and I expect a 300 MHz P-II will really smoke! c) Sparcs seem to have trouble with long doubles ... Cheers, Sven Thommesen Auburn University ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Wed Dec 3 12:35:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26027; Wed, 3 Dec 97 12:35:03 MST Message-Id: <3485B559.2D@one.net> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 14:39:05 -0500 From: bleydorf@one.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: newbish question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hi, Can agents access each other with casting? Heres what I want to do: I have two types of agents, "owners" and "to-be-owned". The "to-be-owned" agents are only 8 in number, and have a defined type called TypeType which is just integers from 1 to 8. There is only one of each agent. I want to be able to pass a int to the owner agent, and then be able to have the owner access the "to-be-owned" variables (etc)... It seems like this would be pretty straightforward, but I can't seem to figure it out...[frown]. (background info), I am using graph library stuff, and the owner agents will "point" to each "to-be-owned" agent (which it owns). Multiple owners can own each "to-be-owned" agents. Thanks, Brad. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Wed Dec 3 13:16:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26736; Wed, 3 Dec 97 13:16:40 MST Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:54:39 -0800 Message-Id: <199712032154.NAA16319@duncan.net-community.com> X-Sender: scottc@mail.net-community.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bleydorf@one.net From: Scott Christley Subject: Re: newbish question Cc: swarm-support@santafe.edu Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hmm, not exactly clear what you are trying to do but I will take a guess. At 02:39 PM 12/3/97 -0500, bleydorf@one.net wrote: >Hi, >Can agents access each other with casting? Yes, but it is generally better to use accessor methods; i.e. methods for retrieving and setting the variables. You can make an ObjC classes variables public, so that you can access them as though it was a C structure. @interface ToBeOwned { @public int x; int y; } @end main() { id anObj = [[ToBeOwned alloc] init]; ((ToBeOwned *)anObj)->x = 5; ((ToBeOwned *)anObj)->y = 100; } Am I close to what you are looking for? Scott > >Heres what I want to do: >I have two types of agents, "owners" and "to-be-owned". >The "to-be-owned" agents are only 8 in number, and have a defined type >called TypeType which is just integers from 1 to 8. There is only one >of each agent. I want to be able to pass a int to the owner agent, and >then be able to have the owner access the "to-be-owned" variables >(etc)... > >It seems like this would be pretty straightforward, but I can't seem to >figure it out...[frown]. > >(background info), I am using graph library stuff, and the owner agents >will "point" to each "to-be-owned" agent (which it owns). Multiple >owners can own each "to-be-owned" agents. > >Thanks, >Brad. > > ================================== > Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day > to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. > [un]subscribing), please send a message to > with "help" in the body of the message. > ================================== > ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Wed Dec 3 23:05:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04377; Wed, 3 Dec 97 23:05:50 MST Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:05:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199712040605.XAA00572@elf115.elf.org> From: Irene Anne Lee Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: java vs. tcl/tk??? In-Reply-To: <348494D7.544D@one.net> References: <348494D7.544D@one.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under Emacs 19.34.1 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu bleydorf@one.net writes: > Hi, > Its exciting to see that 1.0.4 is just around the corner. > > But, this brings up a question...I have seen (at my local computer book > source), a book on Tcl/tk for only 4 bucks. Would it be a waste of > money to get this, since java is going to replace tcl/tk? Or would it > still make sense to spend 4 bucks for a good reference book...? Sounds like a bargain for $4.00 though it may be woefully out of date. The current version of Tcl is 8.0 > > Is 1.0.4 going to be the NT version? If not, when is it going to be > released? No, 1.0.4 is NOT the NT version, it simply contains various changes and fixes. Ken's additions to InFile and XColorMap, Manor's mods to NodeItem.m, Sven's AppendFile and reverse QSort. Dwight's safe probes Probe and control panel positioning Print format in probes Changes to seeds in random.m Raster int in Tkobj.c Raster unset color in Tkobj.c 1.1 will be the NT version. It is expected before the end of year. --Irene ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Thu Dec 4 09:09:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10310; Thu, 4 Dec 97 09:09:11 MST Message-Id: <3486D67C.6212@one.net> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 11:12:44 -0500 From: bleydorf@one.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: java vs. tcl/tk??? References: <348494D7.544D@one.net> <199712040605.XAA00572@elf115.elf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Irene Anne Lee wrote: > > bleydorf@one.net writes: > > But, this brings up a question...I have seen (at my local computer book > > source), a book on Tcl/tk for only 4 bucks. Would it be a waste of > > money to get this, since java is going to replace tcl/tk? Or would it > > still make sense to spend 4 bucks for a good reference book...? > > Sounds like a bargain for $4.00 though it may be woefully out of date. > The current version of Tcl is 8.0 It probably is an older edition/version, but doesnt swarm use the older versions? Or have they been updated as well? > 1.1 will be the NT version. It is expected before the end of year. If I already have NT 4, should I bother installing Linux on my home PC, with the upcoming NT release? And how hard will it be to convert old linux code to new NT code? Will the user contributed libraries work with NT, specifically GraphLib-0.2? Thanks, Brad. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Thu Dec 4 10:33:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12349; Thu, 4 Dec 97 10:33:12 MST To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: java vs. tcl/tk??? References: <348494D7.544D@one.net> <199712040605.XAA00572@elf115.elf.org> <3486D67C.6212@one.net> From: marcusd@cathcart.sysc.pdx.edu (Marcus G. Daniels) Date: 04 Dec 1997 09:35:54 -0800 In-Reply-To: bleydorf@one.net's message of Thu, 04 Dec 1997 11:12:44 -0500 Message-Id: Lines: 31 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.1 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu >>>>> "Brad" == bleydorf writes: Brad> If I already have NT 4, should I bother installing Linux on my Brad> home PC, with the upcoming NT release? GNU/Linux is a wonderful development environment, independent of its contribution to Swarm things. Brad> And how hard will it be Brad> to convert old linux code to new NT code? Will the user Brad> contributed libraries work with NT, specifically GraphLib-0.2? We will certainly try to preserve the existing API, but we can't guarantee that contributed libraries will work unless that actually use the API. For example, in today's Swarm it is easy to talk directly to the Tcl interpreter (or even the X server), completely bypassing the tkobjc features. If people do these things, say for performance or for a lack of the appropriate feature in Swarm, then there is no way these bits of a (hypothetical?) contributed library to possibly function with the Java interface. As for GraphLib, I can only see one small problem and that's this line in DiGraph.m: [globalTkInterp eval: "update idletasks"] ; Anyway, I'm not sure follow your question: since you ask if you should install GNU/Linux, it is unclear how you risk breaking legacy code by sticking with NT alone. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Thu Dec 4 11:20:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13308; Thu, 4 Dec 97 11:20:46 MST Message-Id: <3486F4C1.180B@one.net> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 13:21:53 -0500 From: bleydorf@one.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: java vs. tcl/tk??? References: <348494D7.544D@one.net> <199712040605.XAA00572@elf115.elf.org> <3486D67C.6212@one.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Marcus G. Daniels wrote: > Anyway, I'm not sure follow your question: since you ask if you > should install GNU/Linux, it is unclear how you risk breaking > legacy code by sticking with NT alone. I have linux installed at work, and am currently using it with Swarm. I want to start being able to use Swarm at home, and already have NT installed, but not Linux... ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Thu Dec 4 11:54:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14239; Thu, 4 Dec 97 11:54:44 MST Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:28:02 -0500 From: Bret Comstock Waldow Subject: RE: Help with installation, please To: "'INTERNET:swarm-support@santafe.edu'" Message-Id: <199712041328_MC2-2AB7-FF7F@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hi People, After a hiatus, I have done several things. I re-installed Slackware 3.2, and it seems better. Using the 1.0.3 binary distribution of Swarm, I modified the Makefile.conf, and HeatBugs compiled (at least it didn't give any errors). When I went to run Heatbugs, this is what I received: darkstar:/usr/heatbugs# heatbugs error: TkExtra (instance) Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following directories: /usr/local/lib/tcl7.5 ./lib/tcl7.5 //tcl7.5/library /usr/library This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly. while executing "error $msg" (procedure "init" line 29) invoked from within "init" IOT trap/Abort (core dumped) darkstar:/usr/heatbugs# Any suggestions, please? Thanks, Bret bwaldow@compuserve.com ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Thu Dec 4 12:41:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15082; Thu, 4 Dec 97 12:41:35 MST Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:39:36 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Cline X-Sender: kcline@loon To: "'INTERNET:swarm-support@santafe.edu'" Subject: RE: Help with installation, please In-Reply-To: <199712041328_MC2-2AB7-FF7F@compuserve.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Bret Comstock Waldow wrote: > Hi People, > > After a hiatus, I have done several things. > > I re-installed Slackware 3.2, and it seems better. Using the 1.0.3 > binary distribution of Swarm, I modified the Makefile.conf, and HeatBugs > compiled (at least it didn't give any errors). > > When I went to run Heatbugs, this is what I received: > > darkstar:/usr/heatbugs# heatbugs > error: TkExtra (instance) > Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following directories: > /usr/local/lib/tcl7.5 ./lib/tcl7.5 //tcl7.5/library /usr/library > This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly. > > while executing > "error $msg" > (procedure "init" line 29) > invoked from within > "init" > IOT trap/Abort (core dumped) > darkstar:/usr/heatbugs# > > Any suggestions, please? Did you try the suggestions in the FAQ? From: http://www.santafe.edu/projects/swarm/swarmdocs/faq/FAQ.html 2.1.7. Swarm crashes when running test applications (common Tcl problem) 1.Question: Swarm seemed to compile/install fine, but when I run an application, it crashes and I get a message like this: could not find a usable init.tcl in the following directories ..... This probably means that Tcl wasn't install properly Answer: Assuming you did install Tcl properly, this happens because Swarm can't find libraries that it needs. It does not happen with the archive install method, assuming everything is setup right in Makefile.conf. Binary installation users, however, probably need to create ENVIRONMENT variables. If it is the only problem in your setup, you can fix without recompiling Swarm by changing your environment variables. First, find those libraries in your file system, then set the environment variable TCL_LIBRARY equal to the path where you found that file. The same should probably be done for TK. Depending on the sort of Unix you have, you may need to put these in either .profile or .bash_profile. Explicit instructions for environment variables for binary users are shown in "binary installation procedure" above. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Thu Dec 4 12:51:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15270; Thu, 4 Dec 97 12:51:41 MST To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Help with installation, please References: <199712041328_MC2-2AB7-FF7F@compuserve.com> From: marcusd@cathcart.sysc.pdx.edu (Marcus G. Daniels) Date: 04 Dec 1997 11:54:22 -0800 In-Reply-To: Bret Comstock Waldow's message of Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:28:02 -0500 Message-Id: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.1 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu >>>>> "BW" == Bret Comstock Waldow writes: BW> When I went to run Heatbugs, this is what I received: BW> darkstar:/usr/heatbugs# heatbugs BW> error: TkExtra (instance) Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following directories: BW> /usr/local/lib/tcl7.5 ./lib/tcl7.5 //tcl7.5/library /usr/library BW> This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly. On a GNU/Linux distribution, typically you'll find Tcl/Tk installed in /usr/lib. If you see a tcl7.5 subdirectory there (or anywhere, or another 7.* version) then you can set the TCL_LIBRARY environment variable to that path, e.g. export TCL_LIBRARY=/usr/lib/tcl7.5 ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Thu Dec 4 15:06:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19174; Thu, 4 Dec 97 15:06:18 MST Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971204161001.009cdda0@spidle2.humsci.auburn.edu> X-Sender: sthomme@spidle2.humsci.auburn.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 16:10:10 -0600 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu From: "Sven N. Thommesen" Subject: Popup windows ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu While we are still living in a tcl/tk world -- has anyone out there had occasion to create either of these objects: a) a simple popup window that gives some message and requires the user to click 'ok' to continue; b) a data entry field to allow the user to supply some data value or other ? If you have, sample code would be welcome! Sven ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Fri Dec 5 20:20:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11804; Fri, 5 Dec 97 20:20:24 MST Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:14:58 -0600 () From: Paul Johnson To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Redhat 5.0 problems/solutions In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971204161001.009cdda0@spidle2.humsci.auburn.edu> Message-Id: X-X-Sender: pauljohn@lark.cc.ukans.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu I upgraded to redhat 5, my system wouldn't start, I had to repartition a drive and install fresh. I'm not sure it was worth the amusement.... Anyway, I tried to post earlier today and, for reasons uknown, my posts didn't go, so Im trying again. Redhat 5 is based on a new C library and also many of its features are built on tk/tcl 8.0. I tried to compile libtclobjc against that new library and got some errors, so I installed tk/tcl 7.6 4.2 in the /usr/local directory and tried to make things go. However, the rudest surprise was that the swarm package would not make. I kept seeing errors about mistakes in stdlib.h. After a long time, I figured out that the make was looking first in the /swarm/include directory for header files, and those header files are "stale." they dont work with the libraries I have. SO, one by one, I renamed those libraries, such as stdlib.h, math.h, one of the ieee785.h. Finally swarm made without errors because it found better header files. Note, I don't think you can just delete all of them because some are found nowhere else on the pc. I could not get applications to make, however, because of a lot of TK/TCL/BLT errors after an archive install. I can list the errors, perhaps they are just a result of some minor mistake I made, not due to redhat 5.0 at all. I think the compiler was finding the files in /usr/local, at least according to the compiler messages, but the weird thing is the error messages follow all the way back to the /usr/src files from which the packages were made and installed. (Yes, when I installed libtclobjc, I told it to use the tcl/tk in the /usr/local/lib directory, and I think blt found them on its own). A binary install, however, allowed programs to make and I think it works, but I had to leave the office before I had a chance to reconfigure the tk/tcl environment variables to point at swarm. I'd appreciate some of the list's usual expert opinion on what a person ought to do in this situtation. I guess I can use the binary, even though it plays havoc on the debugger. But I wish I understood better why the header file issue arises and how to control the tk/tcl problems. I've read somewhere a rather detailed treatment of how a person can keep both the old and new version on the same machine, but I can't find it anywhere now. Gosh, I love linux. If you hear of anyone who needs to hire someone who can wipe out an operating system with a single swipe, I'm the guy. Paul E. Johnson pauljohn@ukans.edu Dept. of Political Science Office: (913) 864-9086 University of Kansas FAX: (913) 864-5700 Lawrence, Kansas 66045 Home: (913) 842-9916 ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 6 10:49:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17153; Sat, 6 Dec 97 10:49:55 MST To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Redhat 5.0 problems/solutions References: From: marcusd@cathcart.sysc.pdx.edu (Marcus G. Daniels) Date: 06 Dec 1997 09:52:37 -0800 In-Reply-To: Paul Johnson's message of Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:14:58 -0600 () Message-Id: Lines: 63 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.1 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu >>>>> "PJ" == Paul Johnson writes: PJ> Redhat 5 is based on a new C library and also many of its features PJ> are built on tk/tcl 8.0. I tried to compile libtclobjc against PJ> that new library and got some errors, so I installed tk/tcl 7.6 PJ> 4.2 in the /usr/local directory and tried to make things go. With the swarm-1.0.4 release will be a new version of libtclobjc that compiles with Tcl/Tk 8.0. However, BLT 2.3 doesn't quite support Tcl/Tk 8.0 so Swarm still won't work with Tcl/Tk 8.0. PJ> However, the rudest surprise was that the swarm package would not PJ> make. I kept seeing errors about mistakes in stdlib.h. After a PJ> long time, I figured out that the make was looking first in the PJ> /swarm/include directory for header files, and those header files PJ> are "stale." they dont work with the libraries I have. SO, one by PJ> one, I renamed those libraries, such as stdlib.h, math.h, one of PJ> the ieee785.h. Finally swarm made without errors because it found PJ> better header files. Note, I don't think you can just delete all PJ> of them because some are found nowhere else on the pc. Hmm, what is /swarm/include? For a given compiler target, there should be at most two versions of an include files, one in the usual place (e.g. /usr/include), and perhaps `fixed' version in the GCC tree, (e.g. /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i486-linux/2.7.2.3/include). PJ> I could not get applications to make, however, because of a lot of PJ> TK/TCL/BLT errors after an archive install. I can list the errors, PJ> perhaps they are just a result of some minor mistake I made, not PJ> due to redhat 5.0 at all. I don't follow RedHat things, but I'd guess that RedHat 5.0 is based on the GNU C Library, like version 2.0.5 or something. If so, then you'll almost certainly need to rebuild everything related to Swarm (e.g. news compile of Tcl, Tk, BLT, tclobjc), unless some of those packages came distributed with the system (probably Tcl and Tk). PJ> I think the compiler was finding the PJ> files in /usr/local, at least according to the compiler messages, PJ> but the weird thing is the error messages follow all the way back PJ> to the /usr/src files from which the packages were made and PJ> installed. (Yes, when I installed libtclobjc, I told it to use the PJ> tcl/tk in the /usr/local/lib directory, and I think blt found them PJ> on its own). For installing BLT and tclobjc on hybrid systems (like many GNU/Linux systems nowadays), my advice is not to trust the configure scripts. These configure scripts have a proclivity to go looking for things unless you insist on particulars by using options like --with-tcl, --with-tk (in the case of BLT), or environment variables like TCL_LIBRARY and TK_LIBRARY (in the case of tclobjc). If you want to be sure you've got all the Swarm components setup correctly, I guess the first thing I'd do is to disable as much of your previous (before RedHat 5.0) local installs as possible (this is all assuming you or other users don't rely on this machine for mail delivery, and other crucial functions). For example, rename /usr/local to /usr/local-disabled and see what on your system breaks. Then, piece by piece, reinstall the things you need either with rpm or by doing source installs to a different location (with GNU packages and Tcl/Tk-like things, this is convenient to do with the --prefix option to `configure'). ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 6 13:55:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18804; Sat, 6 Dec 97 13:55:48 MST Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:57:39 -0600 (CST) From: "Paul E. Johnson" X-Sender: pauljohn@valinux To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Redhat 5.0 problems/solutions In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Marcus G. Daniels wrote: > >>>>> "PJ" == Paul Johnson writes: > PJ> However, the rudest surprise was that the swarm package would not > PJ> make. I kept seeing errors about mistakes in stdlib.h. After a > PJ> long time, I figured out that the make was looking first in the > PJ> /swarm/include directory for header files, and those header files > PJ> are "stale." they dont work with the libraries I have. SO, one by > PJ> one, I renamed those libraries, such as stdlib.h, math.h, one of > PJ> the ieee785.h. Finally swarm made without errors because it found > PJ> better header files. Note, I don't think you can just delete all > PJ> of them because some are found nowhere else on the pc. > > Hmm, what is /swarm/include? For a given compiler target, there should be > at most two versions of an include files, one in the usual place I mean the /swarm-1.0.3/include directory that is created when I untar the swarm source. Don't you have that too??? If you notice in the Makefile.conf, it is set to always look there for include files first, before going to the otherincdirs you set in the top of the Makefile.conf. Because some of those header files do not match the libraries as installed, Swarm won't make. I've solved by renaming those header files and swarm makes. However, I see now the easiest thing to do would have been to change the Makefile.conf near the bottom so the include directories have the swarm-1.0.3/include directory last, rather than first. It wouldn't use any of those headers unless it needed to. > I don't follow RedHat things, but I'd guess that RedHat 5.0 is based > on the GNU C Library, like version 2.0.5 or something. They say it is GlibC. Is that meaningful to you? Well, I think the really big problem is that none of the test programs for libtclobjc have ever worked (recall make check doesn't make, at least not for any linux user in recent memory). Without the test of libtclobjc, I don't know what the problem is, whether it is due to Redhat 5 or if I just bungled the install of tclobjc. I have been looking at it for a while and I think you are right that the configure script for libtcl does not find the correct headers, and I'm working on it. Incidentally, the blt demo programs work fine. Recall this was a "clean" install of redhat 5 and all swarm stuff, since the redhat 5 "upgrade" script destroyed my redhat 4.2 install, so I don't think I've got the lingering library problem. I was wondering, however, if there is any big reason why I can't have a system that has tk/tcl 8.0 installed in the Redhat places /usr/lib and /usr/include, and then the old tk/tcl in /usr/local/lib and /usr/local/include. As long as I make swarm look there, perhaps by setting environment variables TK_LIBRARY and TCL_LIBRARY, won't it work? Paul Johnson ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 6 14:47:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19364; Sat, 6 Dec 97 14:47:38 MST Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:49:35 -0600 (CST) From: "Paul E. Johnson" X-Sender: pauljohn@valinux To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Redhat 5.0 libtclobjc problems: here are the error messages In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu I got libtclobjc to make after editing its Makefile to point at /usr/local/inc and /usr/local/lib, where I have tk/tcl 7.6/4.2 installed. Blt compiles and test applications work. Swarm compiles after blocking the compiler's efforts to use header files in /swarm-1.0.3/include when newer header files exist elsewhere in the filesystem. The Archive intall seems to work, but when one tries to compile swarm programs, this is the big ugly message. I've tried many times to figure this out, and it still looks to me like the problem is libtclobjc libraries and they may be getting the wrong tk header/library files somehow, even though the Makefile says go to /usr/local. Gee, I wish libtclobjc had a working test file. gcc -g -L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/lib -L/swarm/swarm-1.0.3//lib -o Voter PolicyPoint.o CountHeads.o Voter.o Setter.o main.o ModelSwarm.o -lspace -lanalysis -lsimtools -ltkobjc -lactivity -lrandom -lswarmobject -lcollections -ldefobj -ltclobjc -lBLT -ltk -ltcl -lXpm -lobjc -lX11 -lm -ldl /usr/local/lib/libtclobjc.a(Tk.o): In function `_i_Tk__promptAndEval': /usr/src/libtclobjc-1.1b7/Tk.m:203: undefined reference to `Tcl_GetFile' /usr/local/lib/libtclobjc.a(Tk.o): In function `StdinProc': /usr/src/libtclobjc-1.1b7/Tk.m:315: undefined reference to `Tcl_GetFile' /usr/src/libtclobjc-1.1b7/Tk.m:342: undefined reference to `Tcl_GetFile' /usr/src/libtclobjc-1.1b7/Tk.m:344: undefined reference to `Tcl_GetFile' /usr/local/lib/libBLT.a(tkButton.o): In function `DisplayButton': tkButton.o(.text+0x126d): undefined reference to `TkDisplayText' /usr/local/lib/libBLT.a(tkButton.o): In function `ComputeButtonGeometry': tkButton.o(.text+0x1789): undefined reference to `TkComputeTextGeometry' /usr/local/lib/libBLT.a(bltGrPs.o): In function `Blt_FontToPostScript': bltGrPs.o(.text+0x114a): undefined reference to `Tk_NameOfFontStruct' /usr/local/lib/libBLT.a(bltBgexec.o): In function `CleanupProc': bltBgexec.o(.text+0x264): undefined reference to `Tcl_GetFile' /usr/local/lib/libBLT.a(bltBgexec.o): In function `BackgroundProc': bltBgexec.o(.text+0x7f4): undefined reference to `Tcl_GetFile' /usr/local/lib/libBLT.a(bltBgexec.o): In function `BgExecCmd': bltBgexec.o(.text+0x9b9): undefined reference to `TclCreateCommandChannel' bltBgexec.o(.text+0xa37): undefined reference to `Tcl_GetFile' bltBgexec.o(.text+0xa4a): undefined reference to `Tcl_GetFile' /usr/local/lib/libBLT.a(bltHtext.o): In function `GetXYPosIndex': bltHtext.o(.text+0x505): undefined reference to `TkMeasureChars' /usr/local/lib/libBLT.a(bltHtext.o): In function `LayoutLine': bltHtext.o(.text+0x1cfe): undefined reference to `TkMeasureChars' bltHtext.o(.text+0x1dbc): undefined reference to `TkMeasureChars' /usr/local/lib/libBLT.a(bltHtext.o): In function `DrawSegment': bltHtext.o(.text+0x2009): undefined reference to `TkMeasureChars' bltHtext.o(.text+0x203c): undefined reference to `TkDisplayChars' bltHtext.o(.text+0x2070): undefined reference to `TkMeasureChars' bltHtext.o(.text+0x20fd): undefined reference to `TkDisplayChars' bltHtext.o(.text+0x2147): undefined reference to `TkDisplayChars' make: *** [Voter] Error 1 I guess I'll just run with the Binary swarm until this gets worked out. I tried my best (sob, self pity, etc...) Paul Johnson ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 6 16:28:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20320; Sat, 6 Dec 97 16:28:27 MST To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Redhat 5.0 problems/solutions References: From: marcusd@cathcart.sysc.pdx.edu (Marcus G. Daniels) Date: 06 Dec 1997 15:31:10 -0800 In-Reply-To: "Paul E. Johnson"'s message of Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:57:39 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.1 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu >>>>> "PJ" == Paul E Johnson writes: PJ> Well, I think the really big problem is that none of the test PJ> programs for libtclobjc have ever worked (recall make check PJ> doesn't make, at least not for any linux user in recent memory). In what way don't the tclobjc test programs work? I notice there may be a potential link-time problem on GNU/Linux systems. If it is a link-time problem, does adding "-lobjc -ldl" to the LIBS and TCLLIBS in tclobjc's Makefile fix the problem? ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 6 17:45:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21128; Sat, 6 Dec 97 17:45:42 MST To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Redhat 5.0 libtclobjc problems: here are the error messages References: From: marcusd@cathcart.sysc.pdx.edu (Marcus G. Daniels) Date: 06 Dec 1997 16:48:25 -0800 In-Reply-To: "Paul E. Johnson"'s message of Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:49:35 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Lines: 26 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.1 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu >>>>> "PJ" == Paul E Johnson writes: PJ> The Archive intall seems to work, but when one tries to compile swarm PJ> programs, this is the big ugly message. gcc -g -L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/lib -L/swarm/swarm-1.0.3//lib -o Voter PolicyPoint.o CountHeads.o Voter.o Setter.o main.o ModelSwarm.o -lspace -lanalysis -lsimtools -ltkobjc -lactivity -lrandom -lswarmobject -lcollections -ldefobj -ltclobjc -lBLT -ltk -ltcl -lXpm -lobjc -lX11 -lm -ldl /usr/local/lib/libtclobjc.a(Tk.o): In function `_i_Tk__promptAndEval': /usr/src/libtclobjc-1.1b7/Tk.m:203: undefined reference to `Tcl_GetFile' /usr/local/lib/libtclobjc.a(Tk.o): In function `StdinProc': /usr/src/libtclobjc-1.1b7/Tk.m:315: undefined reference to `Tcl_GetFile' /usr/src/libtclobjc-1.1b7/Tk.m:342: undefined reference to `Tcl_GetFile' I suggest doing the link with: $ make EXTRALDFLAGS=-Wl,--verbose 2>&1 linker.log And then study linker.log to see why it is missing the symbols in your Tcl/Tk libraries (which ought to be in /usr/lib). You can use a command like: $ nm libtk.so | grep Tcl_GetFile to look for the symbol Tcl_GetFile. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 6 23:23:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23183; Sat, 6 Dec 97 23:23:54 MST Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 00:18:32 -0600 (CST) From: Paul Johnson X-Sender: pauljohn@localhost To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Redhat 5.0 libtclobjc problems: here are the error messages In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Marcus G. Daniels wrote: > >>>>> "PJ" == Paul E Johnson writes: > > PJ> The Archive intall seems to work, but when one tries to compile swarm > PJ> programs, this is the big ugly message. > > I suggest doing the link with: > > $ make EXTRALDFLAGS=-Wl,--verbose 2>&1 linker.log > > And then study linker.log to see why it is missing the symbols in your > Tcl/Tk libraries (which ought to be in /usr/lib). You can use a command like: > Thanks. I will try it. After more fiddling, I think, the problem is that in /usr/lib there is the tk/tcl 8.0 stuff, and I'm trying to make Swarm find the 7.6/4.2 versions that are in /usr/local/lib. I've got environment variables set, but I still get those crazy TCL errrors. The major thing I've learned is that the swarmapp makes are still looking in /usr/lib. If I rename libtcl.so (a symlink to libtcl8.so in /usr/lib) then the make crashes and says it cant find the library for tcl. If I copy the library libtcl.a from /usr/local/lib to /usr/lib and destroy the symlink in /usr/lib from libtcl.so to libtcl8.so, then swarm apps will compile. So that tells me that despite my environment variable pointing at /usr/local/lib, the compiler is still looking in /usr/lib. The swarm Makefile.conf is very emphatic about how it looks for only libtcl.a, and I'm surprised it makes a difference is there is also a libtcl.so in the /usr/lib directory. Oh, well. The binary swarm runs and is probably a good way for most people to get around the redhat 5.0 use of tcl/tk 8.0. I'm just being stubborn trying to make the archive install work because, well, I'm stubborn and want to use the debugger. Paul E. Johnson pauljohn@ukans.edu Dept. of Political Science Office: (913) 864-9086 University of Kansas FAX: (913) 864-5700 Lawrence, Kansas 66045 Home: (913) 842-9916 ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 6 23:45:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23358; Sat, 6 Dec 97 23:45:05 MST Message-Id: <348A4655.4044F21B@ucla.edu> Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 22:46:46 -0800 From: Benedikt Stefansson Organization: Department of Economics, UCLA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Redhat 5.0 libtclobjc problems: here are the error messages References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Paul Johnson wrote: [snip] > Oh, well. The binary swarm runs and is probably a good way for most people to > get around the redhat 5.0 use of tcl/tk 8.0. I'm just being stubborn trying > to make the archive install work because, well, I'm stubborn and want to use > the debugger. > Sorry I have no solution for your problem, but in reference to using GDB with the binary version, I want to underline that you can still debug programs easily with that version. I can live with the fact that with a binary install GDB can't step into Swarm library methods - bugs are least likely to be found there anyway. The Objective-C aware version of GDB, run through Emacs is a pretty nice system. To avoid the gory warning messages when you hit a library method, just use "next" instead of "step" and the debugger will invoke the method without further complaints. By the way, you said that you managed to wipe out the system while upgrading to RedHat 5.0. I'm running 4.0 and I'm curious if I should take the plunge - two questions: a) what is the main argument in favor of an upgrade? b) is there no automagical program on the RedHat CD-ROM that allows you to upgrade from 4.x to the new version? Regards, -Benedikt ------------------ Benedikt Stefansson benedikt@ucla.edu Department of Economics, UCLA Fax. (310) 825-9528 Los Angeles, CA 90095-1477 Tel. (310) 825-4126 ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sun Dec 7 15:17:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00553; Sun, 7 Dec 97 15:17:46 MST Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:20:04 -0800 (PST) From: "Doug Donalson;" To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Cc: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Redhat 5.0 libtclobjc problems: here are the error messages In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Note: I have the exact problem with BLT. The app make refuses to look anywhere but /usr/lib for BLT, even when all paths point elsewhere. I even tried adding an environment variable to point the correct folder. What gives? Cheers, Doug *************************************************************************** * Doug Donalson * Office: (805) 893-2962 * * Ecology, Evolution, and Marine Biology * Home: (805) 961-4447 * * UC Santa Barbara * email donalson@lifesci.ucsb.edu* * Santa Barbara Ca. 93106 * * *************************************************************************** * * * The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that * * heralds new discoveries, is not "EUREKA" (I have found it) but * * "That's funny ...?" * * * * Isaac Asimov * * * *************************************************************************** On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Marcus G. Daniels wrote: > > > >>>>> "PJ" == Paul E Johnson writes: > > > > PJ> The Archive intall seems to work, but when one tries to compile swarm > > PJ> programs, this is the big ugly message. > > > > I suggest doing the link with: > > > > $ make EXTRALDFLAGS=-Wl,--verbose 2>&1 linker.log > > > > And then study linker.log to see why it is missing the symbols in your > > Tcl/Tk libraries (which ought to be in /usr/lib). You can use a command like: > > > Thanks. I will try it. > > After more fiddling, I think, the problem is that in /usr/lib there is the > tk/tcl 8.0 stuff, and I'm trying to make Swarm find the 7.6/4.2 versions > that are in /usr/local/lib. I've got environment > variables set, but I still get those crazy TCL errrors. > > The major thing I've learned is that the swarmapp makes are still looking in > /usr/lib. If I rename libtcl.so (a symlink to libtcl8.so in /usr/lib) then the > make crashes and says it cant find the library for tcl. > > If I copy the library libtcl.a from /usr/local/lib to /usr/lib and destroy the > symlink in /usr/lib from libtcl.so to libtcl8.so, then swarm apps will compile. > So that tells me that despite my environment variable pointing at > /usr/local/lib, the compiler is still looking in /usr/lib. The swarm > Makefile.conf is very emphatic about how it looks for only libtcl.a, and I'm > surprised it makes a difference is there is also a libtcl.so in the /usr/lib > directory. > > Oh, well. The binary swarm runs and is probably a good way for most people to > get around the redhat 5.0 use of tcl/tk 8.0. I'm just being stubborn trying > to make the archive install work because, well, I'm stubborn and want to use > the debugger. > > Paul E. Johnson pauljohn@ukans.edu > Dept. of Political Science Office: (913) 864-9086 > University of Kansas FAX: (913) 864-5700 > Lawrence, Kansas 66045 Home: (913) 842-9916 > > > ================================== > Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day > to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. > [un]subscribing), please send a message to > with "help" in the body of the message. > ================================== > ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sun Dec 7 16:22:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01373; Sun, 7 Dec 97 16:22:39 MST To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Redhat 5.0 libtclobjc problems: here are the error messages References: From: marcusd@cathcart.sysc.pdx.edu (Marcus G. Daniels) Date: 07 Dec 1997 15:25:23 -0800 In-Reply-To: "Doug Donalson;"'s message of Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:20:04 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.1 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu >>>>> "DD" == Doug Donalson; writes: DD> Note: I have the exact problem with BLT. The app make refuses to DD> look anywhere but /usr/lib for BLT, even when all paths point DD> elsewhere. I even tried adding an environment variable to point DD> the correct folder. What gives? If you show me the final link command, the resulting error message, and the contents (ls -l) of the directories you intend for BLT and the other libraries to be found in, I should be able to determine what is wrong. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 8 04:35:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07969; Mon, 8 Dec 97 04:35:53 MST Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 11:13:47 +0100 From: Pietro Terna Subject: Tcl-Tk X-Sender: terna@email.alpcom.it To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971208111347.006b6f88@email.alpcom.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hi all, I've bought the book Foster-Johnson E. (1997) Graphical Applications with Tcl & Tk, M&T Books, New York and reading it I'm greatly appreciating the power of the Tcl language. Mainly, for me it is a true surprise to read that Tkl/Tk applications run also under Windows 3.1, Windows 95 and - with the release 8.0 - under MacOs. So, let me introduce a query (may be, quite ingenuous): Why the Swarm community is not following this direct way to move from Unix to Windows/Mac environments? Yours, Pietro ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 8 08:35:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10183; Mon, 8 Dec 97 08:35:24 MST Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:29:58 -0600 (CST) From: Paul Johnson X-Sender: pauljohn@localhost To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Redhat 5.0 libtclobjc problems: here are the error messages In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu I've been doing more reading on GCC and ELF. If a library is in /usr/lib in either the so or a form, linux is going to try to use it, and it will use an .so instead of .a to be more in the "dynamic" spirit. The system looks in /usr/lib, even though it is not in ld.so.conf, because /usr/lib is a "trusted" directory. I'm studying more about some commands that seem to be able to override some of this behavior, but none of the info documents come right out and say "if you want the compiler to use libtcl.a from /usr/local/lib instead of libtcl.so form /usr/lib, here is what to do." THe problem you have makes me wonder what you see if you ru /sbin/ldconfig -p. That will show all the places the compiler looks for libraries. If it does not show BLT correctly, and as long as there is only one version of BLT in your system, it "ought" to work if you add its BLT's directory in /etc/ld.so.conf. Then restart or run /sbin/ldconfig. On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Doug Donalson; wrote: > Note: I have the exact problem with BLT. The app make refuses > to look anywhere but /usr/lib for BLT, even when all paths point > elsewhere. I even tried adding an environment variable to point > the correct folder. What gives? > > Cheers, > > Doug > > *************************************************************************** > * Doug Donalson * Office: (805) 893-2962 * Paul E. Johnson pauljohn@ukans.edu Dept. of Political Science Office: (913) 864-9086 University of Kansas FAX: (913) 864-5700 Lawrence, Kansas 66045 Home: (913) 842-9916 ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 8 13:05:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16663; Mon, 8 Dec 97 13:05:23 MST Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:07:33 -0600 (CST) From: "Paul E. Johnson" X-Sender: pauljohn@valinux To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Redhat 5.0 problems/solutions In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu YES, that fixed the problem with the "make check" in libtclobjc! FYI, before adding -ldl to the lines you mention, this was the error: [pauljohn@valinux libtclobjc-1.1b7]$ make check gcc -g -o checkTcl checkTcl.o libtclobjc.a -ltcl -lm -lobjc /usr/lib/libtcl.so: undefined reference to `dlerror' /usr/lib/libtcl.so: undefined reference to `dlopen' /usr/lib/libtcl.so: undefined reference to `dlsym' make: *** [checkTcl] Error 1 On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Marcus G. Daniels wrote: > >>>>> "PJ" == Paul E Johnson writes: > > PJ> Well, I think the really big problem is that none of the test > PJ> programs for libtclobjc have ever worked (recall make check > PJ> doesn't make, at least not for any linux user in recent memory). > > In what way don't the tclobjc test programs work? I notice there may > be a potential link-time problem on GNU/Linux systems. If it is a > link-time problem, does adding "-lobjc -ldl" to the LIBS and TCLLIBS > in tclobjc's Makefile fix the problem? > > > > ================================== > Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day > to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. > [un]subscribing), please send a message to > with "help" in the body of the message. > ================================== > ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 8 21:59:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25217; Mon, 8 Dec 97 21:59:45 MST Message-Id: <348CD0AB.9F7B8254@ucla.edu> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 21:01:33 -0800 From: Benedikt Stefansson Organization: Department of Economics, UCLA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Course on Swarm at UCLA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu The UCLA Department of Political Science will be sponsoring an informal course/seminar on Swarm programming this Winter quarter (First day of UCLA Winter quarter is January 12th and last day of instruction is March 20th). The instructor will be yours truly. We are still putting final touches on the syllabus, and some details need to be finalized but tentative meeting times are Monday and Wednesday mornings 11:00-12:15 (after the fifth week we will be meeting only on Wednesdays). Classroom is TBA. The objective of the course is to help social science faculty and students that are interested in agent based modeling to get comfortable programming in C, introduce the fundamentals of Object Oriented Programming and the Swarm libraries. Included is a rough outline of the course. Please refer to the following web page for further information, which I will be updating with data such as seminar hours and location: http://cce.sscnet.ucla.edu/swarmcourse/syllabusW98.html Anyone who is interested in Swarm is invited to attend. Feel free to distribute this information widely to people you know who might be interested. I would be happy to hear from those who are interested in attending the seminar so that we can better gauge the interest and plan accordingly. Outline: I.Week - Introduction to Swarm and overview of the course 1.Introduction and demonstration of Swarm capabilities. 2.Overview - programming tools and evolution of a simulation program. II-IV Week - The C programming language 3.Basic data types and operators. 4.Control and data flow. 5.Functions and program structure. Input and output. 6.Memory allocation and data (pointers and arrays). 7.Memory allocation and data (cont). 8.Practical programming - the editor, compiler and debugger. V. Week - Object Oriented Programming 9.Introduction to Object Oriented Programming. 10.Objective-C syntax. VI. Week - Swarm: first steps 11.Evolving a simple model from basic C, to Objective-C to Swarm. VII-VII.Week - The Swarm libraries 12.Structure of a Swarm program, schedules and collections. 13.Probe library and graphical output. IX.-X Week - Swarm in practice 14.Case studies and Implementations, e.g. Epstein and Axtell (Sugarscape), Schelling's segregation model and Axelrod's culture model. 15.Adaptive Agents, implementation and practical problems. GAs, ANNs Finite State Machines and other algorithms. ------------------ Benedikt Stefansson benedikt@ucla.edu Department of Economics, UCLA Fax. (310) 825-9528 Los Angeles, CA 90095-1477 Tel. (310) 825-4126 ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 9 07:06:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29727; Tue, 9 Dec 97 07:06:44 MST From: karcich@ib.stortek.com Message-Id: <9712091409.AA17833@manaslu.ib.stortek.com> Subject: Re: Course on Swarm at UCLA To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 07:09:17 -0700 (MST) Cc: benedikt@ucla.edu In-Reply-To: <348CD0AB.9F7B8254@ucla.edu> from "Benedikt Stefansson" at Dec 8, 97 09:01:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Dear Benedikt: Is there any chance this course could be offered via some distance learning arrangement? Regards, Rick > > The UCLA Department of Political Science will be sponsoring an informal > course/seminar on Swarm programming this Winter quarter (First day of > UCLA Winter quarter is January 12th and last day of instruction is March > 20th). The instructor will be yours truly. We are still putting final > touches on the syllabus, and some details need to be finalized but > tentative meeting times are Monday and Wednesday mornings 11:00-12:15 > (after the fifth week we will be meeting only on Wednesdays). Classroom > is TBA. > > The objective of the course is to help social science faculty and > students > that are interested in agent based modeling to get comfortable > programming in C, introduce the fundamentals of Object Oriented > Programming and the Swarm libraries. > > Included is a rough outline of the course. Please refer to the > following > web page for further information, which I will be updating with data > such as > seminar hours and location: > > http://cce.sscnet.ucla.edu/swarmcourse/syllabusW98.html > > Anyone who is interested in Swarm is invited to attend. Feel free to > distribute this information widely to people you know who might be > interested. I would be happy to hear from those who are interested in > attending the seminar so that we can better gauge the interest and plan > accordingly. > > Outline: > > I.Week - Introduction to Swarm and overview of the course > 1.Introduction and demonstration of Swarm capabilities. > 2.Overview - programming tools and evolution of a simulation > program. > > II-IV Week - The C programming language > 3.Basic data types and operators. > 4.Control and data flow. > > 5.Functions and program structure. Input and output. > 6.Memory allocation and data (pointers and arrays). > > 7.Memory allocation and data (cont). > 8.Practical programming - the editor, compiler and debugger. > > V. Week - Object Oriented Programming > 9.Introduction to Object Oriented Programming. > 10.Objective-C syntax. > > VI. Week - Swarm: first steps > 11.Evolving a simple model from basic C, to Objective-C to Swarm. > > VII-VII.Week - The Swarm libraries > 12.Structure of a Swarm program, schedules and collections. > 13.Probe library and graphical output. > > IX.-X Week - Swarm in practice > 14.Case studies and Implementations, e.g. Epstein and Axtell > (Sugarscape), Schelling's segregation model and Axelrod's > culture model. > 15.Adaptive Agents, implementation and practical problems. GAs, > ANNs > Finite State Machines and other algorithms. > > ------------------ > Benedikt Stefansson benedikt@ucla.edu > Department of Economics, UCLA Fax. (310) 825-9528 > Los Angeles, CA 90095-1477 Tel. (310) 825-4126 > > > > ================================== > Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day > to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. > [un]subscribing), please send a message to > with "help" in the body of the message. > ================================== > ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Wed Dec 10 09:59:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21041; Wed, 10 Dec 97 09:59:06 MST Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:40:26 -0800 Message-Id: <199712101840.KAA06576@duncan.net-community.com> X-Sender: scottc@mail.net-community.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: swarm-support@santafe.edu, swarm-support@santafe.edu From: Scott Christley Subject: Re: Swarm on Rhapsody? Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu I've been playing around with Swarm to get it to compile and work with GNUstep which is very close to Rhapsody/OpenStep. The main issue is going to be the GUI stuff because right now many of the classes are tied very closely with tcl/tk; I'm waiting to see how the JAVA GUI is integrated in so that I can get a better idea of how to support multiple GUI's before going off and doing work that is useless later on. Scott At 03:35 AM 12/2/97 +0800, Martin Dougiamas wrote: >Hi. > >I'm still trying to find the time to get properly into >Swarm ... being so busy finishing other projects, but since >I'm getting back to study and starting my full-time >Masters next year (which will use Swarm, in part)... >it looks like I'll finally have more time. > >I'm particularly interested in running Swarm on the >new Rhapsody OS next year, which from early indications >will be an exciting platform. > >Is there an effort to port it to Rhapsody already under way? > >Is there any work going ahead on the Java version? > >Cheers, >Martin > > ================================== > Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day > to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. > [un]subscribing), please send a message to > with "help" in the body of the message. > ================================== > ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Wed Dec 10 11:30:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23336; Wed, 10 Dec 97 11:30:36 MST To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Swarm on Rhapsody? References: <199712101840.KAA06576@duncan.net-community.com> From: marcusd@cathcart.sysc.pdx.edu (Marcus G. Daniels) Date: 10 Dec 1997 10:33:21 -0800 In-Reply-To: Scott Christley's message of Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:40:26 -0800 Message-Id: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.1 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu >>>>> "SC" == Scott Christley writes: SC> I've been playing around with Swarm to get it to compile and work SC> with GNUstep which is very close to Rhapsody/OpenStep. The main SC> issue is going to be the GUI stuff because right now many of the SC> classes are tied very closely with tcl/tk; I'm waiting to see how SC> the JAVA GUI is integrated in so that I can get a better idea of SC> how to support multiple GUI's before going off and doing work that SC> is useless later on. Swarm 1.0.4 will be cleaner in this regard; all Tk knowledge will be moved into the tkobjc. The wrappers are simple C functions, but we will probably introduce Tk and Java wrapper (and GNUstep?!) classes once we have a better idea of the Java requirements. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Thu Dec 11 14:54:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15027; Thu, 11 Dec 97 14:54:00 MST Message-Id: <33ajTCAxAGk0EwtX@pknight.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:50:41 +0000 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu From: Phil Knight Subject: Displaying before running revisited Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.04 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu A few months ago there was a discussion on how to display the state of the world at time 0. Sven showed how to break down and activate schedules to achieve this. I'm trying to make a "movie" of my sim and need to capture the screen at t=0, but am having trouble getting this to work :-(. The sim displays t=0 then immediately updates the screen for t=1 before stopping. My observerswarm activateIn and buildActions methods are as follows: -activateIn: (id) swarmContext { // put self (observer swarm) on the schedule of the GUI swarm [super activateIn: swarmContext]; [startDisplaySchedule activateIn: self ]; // <-- update the display [startHaltingSchedule activateIn: self ]; // <-- halt & wait for 'go' // start the activity for the model swarm [modelSwarm activateIn: self]; // start the display schedule [displaySchedule activateIn: self ]; [tkEventSchedule activateIn: self ]; return [self getSwarmActivity]; } -buildActions { [super buildActions]; [modelSwarm buildActions]; displayActions = [ActionGroup create: [self getZone]]; [displayActions createActionTo: worldRaster message: M(erase)]; [displayActions createActionTo: [modelSwarm getWorld] message: M(drawSelfOn:):(id) worldRaster]; [displayActions createActionTo: worldRaster message: M(drawSelf)]; [displayActions createActionTo: self message: M(doStats)]; [displayActions createActionTo: probeDisplayManager message: M(update)]; displaySchedule = [Schedule createBegin: [self getZone]]; [displaySchedule setRepeatInterval: displayFrequency]; displaySchedule = [displaySchedule createEnd]; [displaySchedule at: displayFrequency-1 createAction: displayActions]; startDisplaySchedule = [Schedule create: [self getZone]]; [startDisplaySchedule at: 0 createAction: displayActions ]; tkEventSchedule = [Schedule createBegin: [self getZone]]; [tkEventSchedule setRepeatInterval: displayFrequency]; tkEventSchedule = [tkEventSchedule createEnd]; [tkEventSchedule at: displayFrequency-1 createActionTo: controlPanel message: M(doTkEvents)]; startHaltingSchedule = [Schedule create: [self getZone]]; [startHaltingSchedule at: 0 createActionTo: controlPanel message: M(setStateStopped)]; return self; } Can anyone explain to me why this doesn't work? I thought I was following Sven's recipe, but I must be missing something fundamental. Thanks in advance, -- Phil Knight ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Thu Dec 11 15:14:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15414; Thu, 11 Dec 97 15:14:03 MST Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 97 09:16:19 +1100 Message-Id: <000014A6.eval@ccgate.forestry.tas.gov.au> From: postmaster@ccgate.forestry.tas.gov.au To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: unable to deliver mail Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="IMA.Boundary.9758781880" Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu --IMA.Boundary.9758781880 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message was returned to you for the following reasons: Cannot parse recipient: Wengui Su@forestry.tas.gov.au The original message follows. --IMA.Boundary.9758781880 Content-type: message/rfc822 Received: from ccMail by ccgate.forestry.tas.gov.au (IMA Internet Exchange 3.0 Enterprise Beta 1) id 000014A5; Fri, 12 Dec 97 09:16:18 +1100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:50:41 +1100 Message-ID: <000014A5.eval@santafe.edu> From: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Displaying before running revisited To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part A few months ago there was a discussion on how to display the state of the world at time 0. Sven showed how to break down and activate schedules to achieve this. I'm trying to make a "movie" of my sim and need to capture the screen at t=0, but am having trouble getting this to work :-(. The sim displays t=0 then immediately updates the screen for t=1 before stopping. My observerswarm activateIn and buildActions methods are as follows: -activateIn: (id) swarmContext { // put self (observer swarm) on the schedule of the GUI swarm [super activateIn: swarmContext]; [startDisplaySchedule activateIn: self ]; // <-- update the display [startHaltingSchedule activateIn: self ]; // <-- halt & wait for 'go' // start the activity for the model swarm [modelSwarm activateIn: self]; // start the display schedule [displaySchedule activateIn: self ]; [tkEventSchedule activateIn: self ]; return [self getSwarmActivity]; } -buildActions { [super buildActions]; [modelSwarm buildActions]; displayActions = [ActionGroup create: [self getZone]]; [displayActions createActionTo: worldRaster message: M(erase)]; [displayActions createActionTo: [modelSwarm getWorld] message: M(drawSelfOn:):(id) worldRaster]; [displayActions createActionTo: worldRaster message: M(drawSelf)]; [displayActions createActionTo: self message: M(doStats)]; [displayActions createActionTo: probeDisplayManager message: M(update)]; displaySchedule = [Schedule createBegin: [self getZone]]; [displaySchedule setRepeatInterval: displayFrequency]; displaySchedule = [displaySchedule createEnd]; [displaySchedule at: displayFrequency-1 createAction: displayActions]; startDisplaySchedule = [Schedule create: [self getZone]]; [startDisplaySchedule at: 0 createAction: displayActions ]; tkEventSchedule = [Schedule createBegin: [self getZone]]; [tkEventSchedule setRepeatInterval: displayFrequency]; tkEventSchedule = [tkEventSchedule createEnd]; [tkEventSchedule at: displayFrequency-1 createActionTo: controlPanel message: M(doTkEvents)]; startHaltingSchedule = [Schedule create: [self getZone]]; [startHaltingSchedule at: 0 createActionTo: controlPanel message: M(setStateStopped)]; return self; } Can anyone explain to me why this doesn't work? I thought I was following Sven's recipe, but I must be missing something fundamental. Thanks in advance, -- Phil Knight ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== --IMA.Boundary.9758781880-- ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Thu Dec 11 15:24:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15626; Thu, 11 Dec 97 15:24:51 MST Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 97 09:27:20 +1100 Message-Id: <000014AA.eval@ccgate.forestry.tas.gov.au> From: postmaster@ccgate.forestry.tas.gov.au To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: unable to deliver mail Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="IMA.Boundary.0429781880" Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu --IMA.Boundary.0429781880 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message was returned to you for the following reasons: Cannot parse recipient: Wengui Su@forestry.tas.gov.au The original message follows. --IMA.Boundary.0429781880 Content-type: message/rfc822 Received: from ccMail by ccgate.forestry.tas.gov.au (IMA Internet Exchange 3.0 Enterprise Beta 1) id 000014A9; Fri, 12 Dec 97 09:27:19 +1100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:16:19 +1100 Message-ID: <000014A9.eval@santafe.edu> From: swarm-support@santafe.edu To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: unable to deliver mail Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="IMA.Boundary.9329781880" --IMA.Boundary.9329781880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part This message was returned to you for the following reasons: Cannot parse recipient: Wengui Su@forestry.tas.gov.au The original message follows. --IMA.Boundary.9329781880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Embedded RFC822 message" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Embedded RFC822 message" Content-type: message/rfc822 --IMA.Boundary.9329781880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="RFC822 message headers" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Content-Disposition: inline; filename="RFC822 message headers" Received: from ccMail by ccgate.forestry.tas.gov.au (IMA Internet Exchange 3.0 Enterprise Beta 1) id 000014A5; Fri, 12 Dec 97 09:16:18 +1100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:50:41 +1100 Message-ID: <000014A5.eval@santafe.edu> From: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Displaying before running revisited To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part --IMA.Boundary.9329781880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part A few months ago there was a discussion on how to display the state of the world at time 0. Sven showed how to break down and activate schedules to achieve this. I'm trying to make a "movie" of my sim and need to capture the screen at t=0, but am having trouble getting this to work :-(. The sim displays t=0 then immediately updates the screen for t=1 before stopping. My observerswarm activateIn and buildActions methods are as follows: -activateIn: (id) swarmContext { // put self (observer swarm) on the schedule of the GUI swarm [super activateIn: swarmContext]; [startDisplaySchedule activateIn: self ]; // <-- update the display [startHaltingSchedule activateIn: self ]; // <-- halt & wait for 'go' // start the activity for the model swarm [modelSwarm activateIn: self]; // start the display schedule [displaySchedule activateIn: self ]; [tkEventSchedule activateIn: self ]; return [self getSwarmActivity]; } -buildActions { [super buildActions]; [modelSwarm buildActions]; displayActions = [ActionGroup create: [self getZone]]; [displayActions createActionTo: worldRaster message: M(erase)]; [displayActions createActionTo: [modelSwarm getWorld] message: M(drawSelfOn:):(id) worldRaster]; [displayActions createActionTo: worldRaster message: M(drawSelf)]; [displayActions createActionTo: self message: M(doStats)]; [displayActions createActionTo: probeDisplayManager message: M(update)]; displaySchedule = [Schedule createBegin: [self getZone]]; [displaySchedule setRepeatInterval: displayFrequency]; displaySchedule = [displaySchedule createEnd]; [displaySchedule at: displayFrequency-1 createAction: displayActions]; startDisplaySchedule = [Schedule create: [self getZone]]; [startDisplaySchedule at: 0 createAction: displayActions ]; tkEventSchedule = [Schedule createBegin: [self getZone]]; [tkEventSchedule setRepeatInterval: displayFrequency]; tkEventSchedule = [tkEventSchedule createEnd]; [tkEventSchedule at: displayFrequency-1 createActionTo: controlPanel message: M(doTkEvents)]; startHaltingSchedule = [Schedule create: [self getZone]]; [startHaltingSchedule at: 0 createActionTo: controlPanel message: M(setStateStopped)]; return self; } Can anyone explain to me why this doesn't work? I thought I was following Sven's recipe, but I must be missing something fundamental. Thanks in advance, -- Phil Knight ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== --IMA.Boundary.9329781880-- --IMA.Boundary.0429781880-- ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Thu Dec 11 15:42:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16021; Thu, 11 Dec 97 15:42:03 MST Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 97 09:44:22 +1100 Message-Id: <000014B3.eval@ccgate.forestry.tas.gov.au> From: postmaster@ccgate.forestry.tas.gov.au To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: unable to deliver mail Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="IMA.Boundary.2620881880" Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu --IMA.Boundary.2620881880 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message was returned to you for the following reasons: Cannot parse recipient: Wengui Su@forestry.tas.gov.au The original message follows. --IMA.Boundary.2620881880 Content-type: message/rfc822 Received: from ccMail by ccgate.forestry.tas.gov.au (IMA Internet Exchange 3.0 Enterprise Beta 1) id 000014B2; Fri, 12 Dec 97 09:44:21 +1100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:27:20 +1100 Message-ID: <000014B2.eval@santafe.edu> From: swarm-support@santafe.edu To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: unable to deliver mail Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="IMA.Boundary.1620881880" --IMA.Boundary.1620881880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part This message was returned to you for the following reasons: Cannot parse recipient: Wengui Su@forestry.tas.gov.au The original message follows. --IMA.Boundary.1620881880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Embedded RFC822 message" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Embedded RFC822 message" Content-type: message/rfc822 --IMA.Boundary.1620881880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="MIME multipart headers" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Content-Disposition: inline; filename="MIME multipart headers" Received: from ccMail by ccgate.forestry.tas.gov.au (IMA Internet Exchange 3.0 Enterprise Beta 1) id 000014A9; Fri, 12 Dec 97 09:27:19 +1100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:16:19 +1100 Message-ID: <000014A9.eval@santafe.edu> From: swarm-support@santafe.edu To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: unable to deliver mail Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="IMA.Boundary.9329781880" --IMA.Boundary.1620881880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part This message was returned to you for the following reasons: Cannot parse recipient: Wengui Su@forestry.tas.gov.au The original message follows. --IMA.Boundary.1620881880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Embedded RFC822 message" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Embedded RFC822 message" Content-type: message/rfc822 --IMA.Boundary.1620881880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="RFC822 message headers" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Content-Disposition: inline; filename="RFC822 message headers" Received: from ccMail by ccgate.forestry.tas.gov.au (IMA Internet Exchange 3.0 Enterprise Beta 1) id 000014A5; Fri, 12 Dec 97 09:16:18 +1100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:50:41 +1100 Message-ID: <000014A5.eval@santafe.edu> From: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Displaying before running revisited To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part --IMA.Boundary.1620881880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part A few months ago there was a discussion on how to display the state of the world at time 0. Sven showed how to break down and activate schedules to achieve this. I'm trying to make a "movie" of my sim and need to capture the screen at t=0, but am having trouble getting this to work :-(. The sim displays t=0 then immediately updates the screen for t=1 before stopping. My observerswarm activateIn and buildActions methods are as follows: -activateIn: (id) swarmContext { // put self (observer swarm) on the schedule of the GUI swarm [super activateIn: swarmContext]; [startDisplaySchedule activateIn: self ]; // <-- update the display [startHaltingSchedule activateIn: self ]; // <-- halt & wait for 'go' // start the activity for the model swarm [modelSwarm activateIn: self]; // start the display schedule [displaySchedule activateIn: self ]; [tkEventSchedule activateIn: self ]; return [self getSwarmActivity]; } -buildActions { [super buildActions]; [modelSwarm buildActions]; displayActions = [ActionGroup create: [self getZone]]; [displayActions createActionTo: worldRaster message: M(erase)]; [displayActions createActionTo: [modelSwarm getWorld] message: M(drawSelfOn:):(id) worldRaster]; [displayActions createActionTo: worldRaster message: M(drawSelf)]; [displayActions createActionTo: self message: M(doStats)]; [displayActions createActionTo: probeDisplayManager message: M(update)]; displaySchedule = [Schedule createBegin: [self getZone]]; [displaySchedule setRepeatInterval: displayFrequency]; displaySchedule = [displaySchedule createEnd]; [displaySchedule at: displayFrequency-1 createAction: displayActions]; startDisplaySchedule = [Schedule create: [self getZone]]; [startDisplaySchedule at: 0 createAction: displayActions ]; tkEventSchedule = [Schedule createBegin: [self getZone]]; [tkEventSchedule setRepeatInterval: displayFrequency]; tkEventSchedule = [tkEventSchedule createEnd]; [tkEventSchedule at: displayFrequency-1 createActionTo: controlPanel message: M(doTkEvents)]; startHaltingSchedule = [Schedule create: [self getZone]]; [startHaltingSchedule at: 0 createActionTo: controlPanel message: M(setStateStopped)]; return self; } Can anyone explain to me why this doesn't work? I thought I was following Sven's recipe, but I must be missing something fundamental. Thanks in advance, -- Phil Knight ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== --IMA.Boundary.1620881880-- --IMA.Boundary.2620881880-- ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Thu Dec 11 16:16:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16953; Thu, 11 Dec 97 16:16:37 MST From: "Russell J. Abbott" Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:19:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712112319.PAA05914@groucho.aero.org> To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Course on Swarm at UCLA In-Reply-To: <348CD0AB.9F7B8254@ucla.edu> References: <348CD0AB.9F7B8254@ucla.edu> Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Benedikt, I saw your SWARM course announcement, and I would like to volunteer to help with your course. I am a Professor of Computer Science at Cal State, LA, and I have been very interested in evolution-oriented work for a while. My situation is that I do not have access to a machine that will run SWARM, so I do not know SWARM. But I do know object-oriented programming, although not Objective C specifically, and I have a good understanding of evolution-style thinking. (I have written some genetic algorithm programs in LISP.) My objective is to develop relationships with people working with SWARM. In exchange, I would be happy to help in your course or in some other way. -- Russ Abbott ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Thu Dec 11 23:48:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21219; Thu, 11 Dec 97 23:48:20 MST Message-Id: <3490DF45.1D0D@ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 01:53:01 -0500 From: Benedikt Stefansson X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Course on Swarm at UCLA References: <348CD0AB.9F7B8254@ucla.edu> <199712112319.PAA05914@groucho.aero.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Russ, Thank you for your message and offer of help. Since you are obviously more knowledgeable than me about programming and computers I am not so sure if the first part of the course will be of much use to you, but you are of course welcome to join us at any point. The attendees will mostly be graduate students and faculty members in Political Science who are interested in agent based modeling, so you might find some kindred spirits in this group. I'd be happy to share with you my experience with Swarm and hints about how to get started. Regards, -Benedikt ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Fri Dec 12 14:04:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02740; Fri, 12 Dec 97 14:04:24 MST Message-Id: <9712122105.AA11061@jabba> Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Deirdre Poeltler Date: Fri, 12 Dec 97 13:05:44 -0800 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: The Pheromone VolumeIII Issue 3 References: <199712021736.KAA00621@elf115.elf.org> Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Paul: Embedded in the newsletter I sent is info about the next = SwarmFest, along with the questions to answer and who to email it = to. I'll let you answer. --Deirdre= ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 13 06:51:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11867; Sat, 13 Dec 97 06:51:22 MST Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:37:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199712130337.UAA08458@wijiji.santafe.edu> From: "Marcus G. Daniels" To: swarm-announce@sfi.santafe.edu Subject: tclobjc-1.2 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu There is a new version of the tclobjc library available. ftp://ftp.santafe.edu/pub/swarm/needed-software/tclobjc-1.2.tar.gz If you are installing Swarm 1.0.4, it is recommended that you first install this package. tclobjc-1.2 incorporates knowledge of changes that have been made to operating systems like Solaris and GNU/Linux in the last year or so. In addition, the autoconfiguration system should be more robust. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 13 06:51:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11869; Sat, 13 Dec 97 06:51:24 MST Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:30:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199712130330.UAA08454@wijiji.santafe.edu> From: "Marcus G. Daniels" To: swarm-announce@sfi.santafe.edu Subject: Swarm 1.0.4 Available Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu To the collectively evolving, The Swarm team at the Santa Fe Institute is pleased to announce that Swarm 1.0.4 is ready. Please refer to the Swarm World-Wide Web release page for download URLs, detailed release notes, and an overview of 1.0.3 <-> 1.0.4 portability issues. http://www.santafe.edu/projects/swarm/release.html Swarm 1.0.4 is intended to be a stable alternative to potential interface changes in the near future. Although Swarm 1.0.4 is not a major release, we have implemented more features than we originally had expected. For this reason, Swarm 1.0.4 may also be of interest to users not pending on bug fixes. A secondary reason for the 1.0.4 release is in preparation for the merge of the Java GUI development, which is nearing completion. Many of the changes in Swarm 1.0.4 are part of a general effort to eliminate dependence on Tcl/Tk and to improve the readability and modularity of the Swarm libraries. The Hive hopes that these improvements will help developers that are interested in embedding Swarm in useful or novel environments. We very much appreciate your suggestions and bug reports. swarm-support@santafe.edu is an optimal place to send them! ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 13 08:44:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13165; Sat, 13 Dec 97 08:44:34 MST Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:51:18 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Riolo To: Swarm-Support Cc: rlriolo@umich.edu Subject: tclobjc-1.2 on HPUX (9.05), make check and objc_malloc Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu I tried to install tclobjc-1.2 under HPUX 9.05 (gcc 2.7.2) and the ./configure and make went fine, but then the make check had a problem: badger-rlr)make check gcc -c -I. -I. -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/include/X11R5 -Wall -Wno-implicit -g -O -Wno-protocol checkTcl.m gcc -g -o checkTcl checkTcl.o libtclobjc.a -L/usr/local/lib -ltcl7.4 -lobjc -lm collect2: ld returned 1 exit status /bin/ld: Unsatisfied symbols: objc_malloc (code) objc_free (code) make: *** [checkTcl] Error 1 During the regular make I see the objc_malloc.o gets put into the libtclobjc.a: badger-rlr)make gcc -c -I. -I. -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/include/X11R5 -Wall -Wno-implicit -g -O -Wno-protocol List.m gcc -c -I. -I. -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/include/X11R5 -Wall -Wno-implicit -g -O -Wno-protocol HashTable.m sed -e \ 's/#define TCLOBJC_VERSION .*/#define TCLOBJC_VERSION "1.2"/'\ < ./tclObjc.h.in > tclObjc.h gcc -c -I. -I. -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/include/X11R5 -Wall -Wno-implicit -g -O -Wno-protocol Tcl.m gcc -c -I. -I. -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/include/X11R5 -Wall -Wno-implicit -g -O -Wno-protocol Tk.m gcc -c -I. -I. -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/include/X11R5 -Wall -Wno-implicit -g -O -Wno-protocol tclObjc.m gcc -c -I. -I. -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/include/X11R5 -Wall -Wno-implicit -g -O -Wno-protocol objc-malloc.m ar rc libtclobjc.a List.o HashTable.o Tcl.o Tk.o tclObjc.o objc-malloc.o ranlib libtclobjc.a badger-rlr) (sorry for the formatting above, from my lovely mailer, pine...) Does make check work for you? Any suggestions? What did I forget? - r Rick Riolo rlriolo@umich.edu Program for Study of Complex Systems (PSCS) 4068 Randall Lab University of Michigan Ann Arbor MI 48109-1120 Phone: 313 763 3323 Fax: 313 763 9267 http://pscs.physics.lsa.umich.edu/PEOPLE/rlr-home.html http://pscs.physics.lsa.umich.edu//pscs.html ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 13 10:18:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14019; Sat, 13 Dec 97 10:18:30 MST To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Cc: rlriolo@umich.edu Subject: Re: tclobjc-1.2 on HPUX (9.05), make check and objc_malloc References: From: marcusd@cathcart.sysc.pdx.edu (Marcus G. Daniels) Date: 13 Dec 1997 09:21:17 -0800 In-Reply-To: Rick Riolo's message of Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:51:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Lines: 26 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.1 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu >>>>> "RLR" == Rick Riolo writes: RLR> I tried to install tclobjc-1.2 under HPUX 9.05 (gcc 2.7.2) and RLR> the ./configure and make went fine, but then the make check had a RLR> problem: RLR> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status /bin/ld: RLR> Unsatisfied symbols: RLR> objc_malloc (code) RLR> objc_free (code) RLR> make: *** [checkTcl] Error 1 What results from a "nm objc-malloc.o"? RLR> Does make check work for you? The platforms I tested (and it worked) were GNU/Linux, NetBSD, Solaris 2.5, and Irix 5.3. RLR> What did I forget? As far as I can tell, nothing. As a workaround, you can edit tclObjc.m changing "objc_malloc" to "malloc" and "objc_free" to "free" and then recompile. It would be nice to get to the bottom of this, though. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 13 11:07:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14448; Sat, 13 Dec 97 11:07:26 MST Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:14:09 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Riolo To: "Marcus G. Daniels" Cc: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: tclobjc-1.2 on HPUX (9.05), make check and objc_malloc In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Here is the nm output: badger-rlr)nm objc-malloc.o 00000000 t $CODE$ 00000000 t $LIT$ 00000000 t L$text0000 000000a8 t L$text_end 40000014 d _OBJC_SELECTOR_TABLE 00000060 T __objc_calloc 00000090 T __objc_free 00000000 T __objc_malloc 00000030 T __objc_realloc U calloc U free U malloc 40000004 D objc_atomic_malloc 4000000c D objc_calloc U objc_fatal 40000010 D objc_free 40000000 D objc_malloc 40000008 D objc_realloc U realloc more later after I play a bit... - r Rick Riolo rlriolo@umich.edu Program for Study of Complex Systems (PSCS) 4068 Randall Lab University of Michigan Ann Arbor MI 48109-1120 Phone: 313 763 3323 Fax: 313 763 9267 http://pscs.physics.lsa.umich.edu/PEOPLE/rlr-home.html http://pscs.physics.lsa.umich.edu//pscs.html On 13 Dec 1997, Marcus G. Daniels wrote: > Date: 13 Dec 1997 09:21:17 -0800 > From: Marcus G. Daniels > To: swarm-support@santafe.edu > Cc: rlriolo@umich.edu > Subject: Re: tclobjc-1.2 on HPUX (9.05), make check and objc_malloc > > >>>>> "RLR" == Rick Riolo writes: > > RLR> I tried to install tclobjc-1.2 under HPUX 9.05 (gcc 2.7.2) and > RLR> the ./configure and make went fine, but then the make check had a > RLR> problem: > > RLR> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status /bin/ld: > RLR> Unsatisfied symbols: > RLR> objc_malloc (code) > RLR> objc_free (code) > RLR> make: *** [checkTcl] Error 1 > > What results from a "nm objc-malloc.o"? > > RLR> Does make check work for you? > > The platforms I tested (and it worked) were GNU/Linux, NetBSD, Solaris > 2.5, and Irix 5.3. > > RLR> What did I forget? > > As far as I can tell, nothing. As a workaround, you can edit > tclObjc.m changing "objc_malloc" to "malloc" and "objc_free" to "free" > and then recompile. It would be nice to get to the bottom of this, > though. > > ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 13 11:46:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14815; Sat, 13 Dec 97 11:46:29 MST Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:53:13 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Riolo To: "Marcus G. Daniels" Cc: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: tclobjc-1.2 on HPUX (9.05), make check and objc_malloc: A FIX In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Well, I fixed it by adding #include "objc-malloc.h" to tclObjc.m , doing a re-make which goes fine now, and then a make check works fine. (I wonder how it is that it works on other systems without that?) - r Rick Riolo rlriolo@umich.edu Program for Study of Complex Systems (PSCS) 4068 Randall Lab University of Michigan Ann Arbor MI 48109-1120 Phone: 313 763 3323 Fax: 313 763 9267 http://pscs.physics.lsa.umich.edu/PEOPLE/rlr-home.html http://pscs.physics.lsa.umich.edu//pscs.html On 13 Dec 1997, Marcus G. Daniels wrote: > Date: 13 Dec 1997 09:21:17 -0800 > From: Marcus G. Daniels > To: swarm-support@santafe.edu > Cc: rlriolo@umich.edu > Subject: Re: tclobjc-1.2 on HPUX (9.05), make check and objc_malloc > > >>>>> "RLR" == Rick Riolo writes: > > RLR> I tried to install tclobjc-1.2 under HPUX 9.05 (gcc 2.7.2) and > RLR> the ./configure and make went fine, but then the make check had a > RLR> problem: > > RLR> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status /bin/ld: > RLR> Unsatisfied symbols: > RLR> objc_malloc (code) > RLR> objc_free (code) > RLR> make: *** [checkTcl] Error 1 > > What results from a "nm objc-malloc.o"? > > RLR> Does make check work for you? > > The platforms I tested (and it worked) were GNU/Linux, NetBSD, Solaris > 2.5, and Irix 5.3. > > RLR> What did I forget? > > As far as I can tell, nothing. As a workaround, you can edit > tclObjc.m changing "objc_malloc" to "malloc" and "objc_free" to "free" > and then recompile. It would be nice to get to the bottom of this, > though. > > ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 13 12:25:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15156; Sat, 13 Dec 97 12:25:15 MST To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Cc: Rick Riolo Subject: Re: tclobjc-1.2 on HPUX (9.05), make check and objc_malloc: A FIX References: From: marcusd@cathcart.sysc.pdx.edu (Marcus G. Daniels) Date: 13 Dec 1997 11:28:04 -0800 In-Reply-To: Rick Riolo's message of Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:53:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.1 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu >>>>> "RLR" == Rick Riolo writes: RLR> Well, I fixed it by adding RLR> #include "objc-malloc.h" I've put up a new version with this change and the necessary autoconf support at: ftp://ftp.santafe.edu/pub/swarm/needed-software/tclobjc-1.2a.tar.gz Thanks, Rick! ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 13 13:35:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15661; Sat, 13 Dec 97 13:35:46 MST Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:42:30 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Riolo To: Swarm-Support Cc: rlriolo@umich.edu Subject: -help Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu I noticed that apps compiled with swarm-1.0.4 (and I see now even 1.0.3) accept and print a bit of help when -help is put in the run command. Did I miss the announcement of that option? Who (ie what object) is providing that service? My apps process runtime parameters themselves, and in the past I had the objects that recognize -help (and -h) and put out some help. So I it would be nice if I could override (or add to) the -help help that something in the kernel gives now. Any advice? thanks! - r Rick Riolo rlriolo@umich.edu Program for Study of Complex Systems (PSCS) 4068 Randall Lab University of Michigan Ann Arbor MI 48109-1120 Phone: 313 763 3323 Fax: 313 763 9267 http://pscs.physics.lsa.umich.edu/PEOPLE/rlr-home.html http://pscs.physics.lsa.umich.edu//pscs.html ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 13 13:54:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15814; Sat, 13 Dec 97 13:54:37 MST Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:14:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199712132114.OAA18326@seamus.trail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: -help In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.35 under Emacs 20.2.1 From: "glen e. p. ropella" Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Rick Riolo writes: > I noticed that apps compiled with swarm-1.0.4 > (and I see now even 1.0.3) accept and print a bit of help > when -help is put in the run command. > > Did I miss the announcement of that option? > Who (ie what object) is providing that service? > > My apps process runtime parameters themselves, and in the past > I had the objects that recognize -help (and -h) > and put out some help. > So I it would be nice if I could override (or add to) > the -help help that something in the kernel gives now. > > Any advice? Hey Rick, There's a function called printHelp in simtools.m that prints that message in response to the the command line parsing in initSwarm(). glen ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 13 14:21:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16134; Sat, 13 Dec 97 14:21:52 MST To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Cc: rlriolo@umich.edu Subject: Re: -help References: From: marcusd@cathcart.sysc.pdx.edu (Marcus G. Daniels) Date: 13 Dec 1997 13:24:40 -0800 In-Reply-To: Rick Riolo's message of Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:42:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.1 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu >>>>> "RLR" == Rick Riolo writes: RLR> My apps process runtime parameters themselves, and in the past I RLR> had the objects that recognize -help (and -h) and put out some RLR> help. So I it would be nice if I could override (or add to) the RLR> -help help that something in the kernel gives now. The way it works now is really uninteresting. Look in src/simtools/simtools.m and hack away! One way to make a systematic extensible argument parsing system would be to use the GNU argp library. I'm skeptical that it would actually get used considering the complexity it would introduce. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 16 00:23:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20498; Tue, 16 Dec 97 00:23:31 MST From: "Russell J. Abbott" Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:26:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712160726.XAA07696@groucho.aero.org> To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: NSA contacts Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Glen, Did you ever come across the NSA contacts? I wrote to Mike Combs but never got an answer. I would like to get NSA interested in SWARM. The best way would be for me to find someone who wants to encourage my NSA funding source to fund it. (He says that he doesn't fund New Mexico State. So we would not be in competition for money.) It's a nice deal all around. The technical people don't have to come up with the money. The funders just need to know that they are funding something someone at NSA is interested in. -- Russ ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 16 06:57:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24149; Tue, 16 Dec 97 06:57:29 MST From: "Joseph P. Wetstein" Message-Id: <199712161402.JAA10952@cbis.ece.drexel.edu> Subject: Re: NSA contacts To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:02:28 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199712160726.XAA07696@groucho.aero.org> from "Russell J. Abbott" at "Dec 15, 97 11:26:19 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL15 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu > > Glen, > > Did you ever come across the NSA contacts? I wrote to Mike Combs but > never got an answer. I would like to get NSA interested in SWARM. The > best way would be for me to find someone who wants to encourage my NSA > funding source to fund it. (He says that he doesn't fund New Mexico > State. So we would not be in competition for money.) > > It's a nice deal all around. The technical people don't have to come up > with the money. The funders just need to know that they are funding > something someone at NSA is interested in. > > -- Russ I know some people there. Can you send me info that I can forward on to them? Joe -- Joseph P. Wetstein, P.E. Drexel University j.wetstein@ieee.org PP/ASEL & KA3VJY [Tech+] ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 16 11:59:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01070; Tue, 16 Dec 97 11:59:52 MST Message-Id: <9712161859.AA01065@sfi.santafe.edu> From: Ginger Booth Subject: Linux/WindowsNT To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Date: Tue, 16 Dec 97 13:50:22 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hi, gang, I know this doesn't belong here, but figured y'all could maybe give me a few pointers.... We've been working on a (mostly) pure HPUX cross-NFS net, courtesy of some grants from HP. Now we've won an Intel grant, so we're getting mobs of Intel WinNT systems coming in. Nice ones, probably. Like 30, 300MHz Pentium II's. So I need to bone up on WinNT/Linux, enough that I can create a cross-platform network, of (I think?) machines interoperable WinNT/Linux, by user/on demand, NFS'd together, probably with HPUX machines still in the mix, and possibly SGI's and an ancient SparcStation. With common accessories (multimedia station, backups, zip drive, printers, application depositories both Linux and WinNT side, etc.) Like, "WinNT for Dummies" probably lacks needed detail. I know nothing about WinNT. I have a Windows'95 machine at home, conveniently un-networked except by modem. Never done Linux. "Advanced Techniques for Microsoft Systems Gurus" is probably also not the title I'm looking for. Any pointers on the learning curve? Anybody done it? Should I flee? Thanks! Ginger Booth, Center for Computational Ecology Yale Institute for Biospheric Studies ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 16 12:08:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01262; Tue, 16 Dec 97 12:08:03 MST Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:08:16 -0700 From: cgl@sfi.santafe.edu Message-Id: <199712161908.MAA07126@santafe.santafe.edu> To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Linux/WindowsNT Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Ginger Booth writes... We've been working on a (mostly) pure HPUX cross-NFS net, courtesy of some grants from HP. Now we've won an Intel grant, so we're getting mobs of Intel WinNT systems coming in. Nice ones, probably. Like 30, 300MHz Pentium II's. ____________________ Hey Ginger! Sounds great! congratulations! Can you tell us what the overall goal of the project is? Thank God for Intel! (your diety may vary - local prohibitions apply) Chris Langton ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 16 12:29:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01858; Tue, 16 Dec 97 12:29:17 MST Message-Id: <9712161929.AA01853@sfi.santafe.edu> From: Ginger Booth Subject: Re: Linux/WindowsNT To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Date: Tue, 16 Dec 97 14:19:47 EST In-Reply-To: <199712161908.MAA07126@santafe.santafe.edu>; from "cgl@santafe.edu" at Dec 16, 97 12:08 (noon) Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hey, Chris, > Hey Ginger! Sounds great! congratulations! > > Can you tell us what the overall goal of the project is? Intel's goal ;) ? This is "our" slice of a Yale-wide mega-bequest. Who is "us" is foggy, in that that the main part of "us" may get picky about whether I belong. The 30 machines belong to the new Ecology and Evolutionary Biology Department, which is due to exist in June'98. My research center, CCE, belongs to EEB largely to the extent that my boss chairs both. At any rate, whatever was on the grant (and I sure would like to see what's on that grant....), I'm on the trickle-down slope. "They're coming. Make a plan. Make us happy. You figure it out." Biologists. > Thank God for Intel! (your diety may vary - local prohibitions apply) :) Devout polytheist. A bird in hand.... Cheers, Ginger ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 16 12:45:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02353; Tue, 16 Dec 97 12:45:12 MST Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:46:59 -0600 (CST) From: "Paul E. Johnson" X-Sender: pauljohn@valinux To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Linux/WindowsNT In-Reply-To: <9712161859.AA01065@sfi.santafe.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu I have had lots of fun playing with my linux machine and sharing devices with MS operating systems. I hope that when you say NFS, you are a bit open minded. Look at SAMBA! Samba works fine as a system for sharing printers and zip drives back and forth between linux and MS systems. From Linux, I can print on the printer attached to an MS machine. From Windows, I can write on a zip drive in the linux machine. I've not tried sharing tape or CDR because of speed issues. It is pretty easy to smbmount "shares" that are set up on either kind of computer from the other. There is a known flaw in the linux kernel that makes Win95 shares work erratically when mounted under linux. However, AFAIK, this does not affect WinNT. Inside WinNT, there is an even more better method of mounting remote systems on samba servers than in Win95. Again, AFAIK, Windows systems do not support direct NFS mounts, but they work OK with SAMBA.. The biggest hangup is getting the permissions/passwords problems worked out. Just when linux folk figure out whatever half assed security scheme MS is using, then MS changes. From WinNT 3.5 to 4.0 there was a change form plain to encrypted passwords and Samba hasn't quite caught up, at least in my experience. But there are "registry hacks" for Windows that you get with the newer samba src that will make it work out. For some strange reason, the restrictions on write permissions on the zip drive under linux are difficult to overcome without giving full public access to that drive. If it were a priority for me, I think I could figure it out. After reading lots of documentation on the Samba homepage, I found the most useful thing was the Samba tip sheet on the Redhat linux site. That is the place to look! Here is the most peculiar problem I've run into. On your MS machines, It makes a big difference whether you run the Novell Client 32 or Microsoft Client for Novell networks to access your Novell server, if you have one. The two clients don't communicate with each other well at all, and so it is (in my experience) very dicey to print from a WinNT station to a printer shared by a Win95 system. The problem has something to do with the fact that the Novell client assumes it is already authenticated and the MS system isn't smart enough to ask for a password. Much easier to print from linux on the Win95 system. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 16 14:37:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05626; Tue, 16 Dec 97 14:37:07 MST Organization: Universita' Ca' Foscari Venezia X-Sender: alex@157.138.1.11 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:36:44 +0100 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu From: Alessandro Perrone Subject: infos Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hi all I'd like to ask a little question to all the swarm-world. Has anyone compile with success Swarm 1.x on Mklinux or linuxpmac? Waiting for your prompt answer, best regards. ALEX ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo--------------------------------------------------- .oooO Alex Perrone - alex@unive.it alex@math.unipd.it ( ) Oooo. Home Page: http://venus.unive.it/~alex ---\ (----( )---------------------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 16 14:56:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05987; Tue, 16 Dec 97 14:56:39 MST Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:58:46 -0600 (CST) From: "Paul E. Johnson" X-Sender: pauljohn@valinux To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Swarm 1.0.4 Installation Guide for Redhat Linux 5.0 In-Reply-To: <9712161859.AA01065@sfi.santafe.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Notes on Redhat 5.0 Install of Swarm 1.0.4 Paul Johnson (pauljohn@ukans.edu) As usual, to avoid grading papers and writing projects I decided to install the new Redhat (5.0) and Swarm 1.0.4. As usual, I screwed up a bunch of stuff and had to cry a lot to SFI folks, who as usual were nice enough to help me figure it out. In case you find yourself with Redhat 5.0 and you want to run swarm 1.0.4, consider these advices I've cobbled together, mostly from Marcus Daniels. If you are happy being a binary user, you can probably just go that route, with the same install steps that are spelled out in the faq. The one exception that I found when I installed binary 1.0.3 was that some of the include files in the Swarm /include directory clashed with the RH library files and I had to try to make swarm several times, after each failure removing one header file from Swarm-1.0.3/include. Files such as time.h, math.h, etc., had to go. On a second install on another machine, I circumvented this problem by changing a line in the Makefile.conf near the bottom where the include files for Swarm were specified. I moved the OTHERLIBDIR setting before the reference to the Swarm-103/include directory, and it worked fine. Perhaps the binary version of Swarm 1.0.4, which I have not seen yet, will avoid those problems. I am a big believer in the archive install because it builds character! And it builds a person's knowledge of their linux system. And the debugger can step through the Swarm files. Anyway, if you have swarm-1.0.4.tar.gz, here is what you can do to complete an archive install. 1. Redhat 5.0 uses tcl/tk 8.0. It is OK to leave it where it is, because many of the "new improved" RH features depend on it. You can install the older tcl/tk in the /usr/local hierarchy and direct swarm to use that. I went to the Sun systems ftp site and found tcltk-7.6p2.src.tar.gz, the newest patched version of the source. When untarred/unzipped, it gives subdirectories tcl7.6 and tk 4.2. Inside each one, there are sources for windows, unix, mac, and who the hell knows what else. After I screwed up installing this, I got specific advice from Marcus on what to do. Install Tcl. If you have the source unzipped, from the main directory go like this: ($ is linux shell prompt) $ cd tcl7.6 $ cd unix $ ./configure --prefix=/usr/local --enable-gcc --enable-shared $ make $ make install and for Tk, get into the directory /tcltk4.2p/tcl7.6 and: $ cd unix $ ./configure --prefix=/usr/local --with-x --enable-gcc --enable-shared --with-tcl=../../tcl7.6/unix $ make $ make install The ./configure line gave me some trouble, but I believe this is correct. Note, if you have something go wrong, before you try make again, type "make clean" to get a fresh start. 2. Go to /usr/local/lib and make sure you see the tcl and tk libraries. You should see them, if you don't, you screwed up before. Ordinarily, you'd run ldconfig, possibly editing /etc/ld.so.conf to add the /usr/local/lib directory and it would take care of making symlinks for you. It did not do it for me, so after runnign ldconfig I made sure I had these links: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 Dec 13 16:11 libtcl.so -> libtcl7.6.so lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 11 Dec 13 16:11 libtk.so -> libtk4.2.so If you don't have them, create by typing, for example, $ ln -s libtk4.2.so libtk.so My /usr/local/lib also has ".a" (nonshared) versions of the library present because I did not understand about the "enable-shared" option on the tcl/tk configuration when I did this for the first time. I don't think those matter. The GCC HOWTO says the linker will always use an .so version instead of an .a version if it is available in the directory. 3. Get the new libtclobjc, which is called tclobjc-1.2.tar.gz. Unzip it into a directory (I have it in /usr/src/tclobjc, for example). Since RH has tcl/tk 8.0, you will be screwed if you just do the regular ./configure. The configure script finds the 8.0 stuff, and that dog don't hunt, as they say in Texas. You need to clue in tclobjc about which tcl/tk to use. Change into the source directory for tclobjc, type this: $ TCL_LIBRARY=/usr/local/lib/tcl7.6 TK_LIBRARY=/usr/local/lib/tk4.2 ./configure $ make $ make install (NOTE: THE TCL.... configure bit is ALL ON ONE LINE) That worked great, as evidenced by the fact that typing $ make check produced a working test. If your make check doesn't work, something is wrong. (This is contrary to the advice from previous versions of my FAQ, which said the make check won't work, and don't worry about it!) 4. Install BLT 2.1 or BLT 2.3. I still have the patched version of BLT 2.1--see the FAQ for more info about that if you don't know already. There's one line in the source code you need to fix. Also, if you have a Pentium II PC, the processor shows as a [686] and the BLT make will die an ugly death. Go into the blt2.1/cf subdirectory, open a file called config.sub, and do global change of all [345] occurrences to [3456]. After that, do the old $./configure --prefix=/usr/local and tell it /usr/local/lib when it asks where you have tcl/tk). $ make clean (in case you have a previously botched make lying around!) $ make $ make install The test apps did fine too. I did not mess with BLT 2.3 yet. 5. Remake swarm. It was a big nasty problem to make sure that swarmapps did not try to use the wrong tcl/tk. I'm not sure I understand all the details, but I do know this: If you adopt this new, radically-more detailed method of configuring your Makefile.conf, you can succeed. After I fouled up lots of times, Marcus finally, well, the equivalent of "just use this!" My configuration options are called "pj-UKANS-GNU/Linux-glibc2" and in the top of Makefile.conf there is this: # Select your setup here, set SETUP in the environment, or provide # a value on the command line. SETUP=pj-UKANS-GNU/Linux-glibc2 else SETUP=$(SWARMSETUP) endif ( AND THEN BELOW the SETUP=NONE segment (if you have any), is the SETUP this refers to: ) ifeq ($(SETUP),pj-UKANS-GNU/Linux-glibc2) SYS=GNU/Linux CC=gcc OPTFLAGS=-O3 -g BLTPREFIX=/usr/local BLTINC=$(BLTPREFIX)/include BLTLIB=$(BLTPREFIX)/lib XPREFIX=/usr/X11R6 XINC=$(XPREFIX)/include XLIB=$(XPREFIX)/lib TCLVERS=7.6 TKVERS=4.2 TCLPREFIX=/usr/local TCLINC=$(TCLPREFIX)/include TCLLIB=$(TCLPREFIX)/lib/tcl$(TCLVERS) TKPREFIX=/usr/local TKINC=$(TKPREFIX)/include TKLIB=$(TKPREFIX)/lib/tk$(TKVERS) TCLOBJCPREFIX=/usr/local TCLOBJCINC=$(TCLOBJCPREFIX)/include TCLOBJCLIB=$(TCLOBJCPREFIX)/lib OTHERINCDIRS=-I$(TCLOBJCINC) -I$(BLTINC) -I$(TCLINC) -I$(TKINC) -I$(XINC) OTHERLIBDIRS=-L$(BLTLIB) -L$(TCLOBJCLIB) -L$(TKLIB)/.. -L$(TCLLIB)/.. -L$(XLIB) endif Curious users will note that this is indeed radically detailed, compared to the setup used until now. It specifies the tcl/tk versions very clearly. Also note it does not have the SYSDEPLIBS=-ldl line that use to seem necessary. And, nowhere does /usr/lib appear in the recipe. If you don't follow this or some similar approach, you may compile swarm, you may make applications, and then they will crash with a vague message [tk extra] that happens because your application--at runtime-- is accessing /usr/lib/libtcl8.0.so instead of /usr/local/lib/libtcl7.6.so. After you compile an application, you can check what it is going to grab by typing "ldd executable-file-name". 6. Tryout a test application. Get the New HEATBUGS 1.0.1. If you don't, you will get errors like this from make: ObserverSwarm.m: In function `_c_ObserverSwarm__createBegin_': ObserverSwarm.m:26: warning: `ProbeMap' does not respond to `setProbedClass:' ObserverSwarm.m:27: warning: `ProbeMap' does not respond to `createEnd' ObserverSwarm.m:32: warning: `ProbeMap' does not respond to `addProbe:' Both Marcus and Sven have tried to explain to me why the old notation has changed. Instead of ProbeMap * probemap, we now want to use id probemap. If you are a programmer, you may know. If you are not, well, the idea is to give the probemap object access to the protocols collectively referred to as ProbeMap. Here is the way Sven T put it: "the deal is that 'Probemap * x' requires x to be an object of class Probemap, while 'id x' allows x to be any kind of object that follows the Probemap protocol (i.e. it implements all the methods required of that protocol). Since in Swarm the create: methods are allowed to return different objects depending on the parameters specified, the only way to make sure you are getting an object with the right capabilities is to specify the protocol. The Probemap class, if it even exists, may not implement the Probemap protocol! Is the confusion total now?" I am just happy to have one less piece of old C pointer notation banging around. As usual, feel free to send questions, compliments, or additions. Insults can be addressed to my press agent, clinton@wh.gov. Paul Johnson pauljohn@ukans.edu 12/16/97 ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 16 15:05:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06228; Tue, 16 Dec 97 15:05:47 MST X-Sender: streak@s.imap.itd.umich.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 17:08:45 -0500 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu From: "Theodore C. Belding" Subject: Re: infos Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Swarm works fine on MkLinux; search the mailing list archives for details: http://www.santafe.edu/projects/swarm/archive/index.html -Ted At 11:36 PM +0100 12/16/97, Alessandro Perrone wrote: >Hi all > I'd like to ask a little question to all the swarm-world. >Has anyone compile with success Swarm 1.x on Mklinux or linuxpmac? >Waiting for your prompt answer, best regards. > ALEX > > ,,,, > /'^'\ > ( o o ) >-oOOO--(_)--OOOo--------------------------------------------------- > .oooO Alex Perrone - alex@unive.it alex@math.unipd.it > ( ) Oooo. Home Page: http://venus.unive.it/~alex >---\ (----( )---------------------------------------------------- > \_) ) / > (_/ > > > > ================================== > Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day > to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. > [un]subscribing), please send a message to > with "help" in the body of the message. > ================================== -- Ted Belding Ted.Belding@umich.edu University of Michigan Program for the Study of Complex Systems http://www-personal.umich.edu/~streak/ ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 16 22:02:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12459; Tue, 16 Dec 97 22:02:05 MST Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:56:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199712170456.VAA00484@elf115.elf.org> From: Irene Anne Lee Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: swarm-announce@santafe.edu Subject: The Pheromone Volume III Issue 4 X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under Emacs 19.34.1 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu The Swarm SFI-Hive Pheromone Volume 3, Issue 4 December 16, 1997 The Pheromone will stand to inform users of the activities and goals of the hive and user community. Contributions are accepted that announce Swarm-related events or activities in any of the growing Swarm colonies around the world. To contribute, send e-mail to swarm@santafe.edu. The Pheromone is mailed out on Tuesday (or.... maybe Wednesday) if and only if there is information to be disseminated. Table of Contents ----------------- I. Happy Holidays to the Swarm II. T'is the Season... III. Swarm release 1.0.4 IV. Java GUI Progress Report V. The Annual Swarm Survey VI. Swarmfest/GIS '98 update VII. New bug-swarm mailing list ======================================================================== I. Happy Holidays to the Swarm. We wish all of the Swarm Community a safe and happy holiday season. "May you find numerous honey pots under your tree" (attributed to Alex) "Bah humbug!" (attributed to Marcus) II. T'is the season... for tax-deductible giving! (fa la la la, la la la la la) Our mission at "Hive Central" is to contribute to the Swarm community by maintaining and upgrading the kernel and library code, by supporting researchers and developers using Swarm, and by fostering the ongoing development and use of Swarm software. In addition to contributing to the Swarm community, we are also dependent on the user community for support. Now is the time when many organizations and individuals consider making tax deductible contributions to their favorite charities and not-for-profit organizations. This holiday season, please consider making a donation to the Swarm Program at the Santa Fe Institute. Your contribution is vital to keeping the program in existence. While offering us many benefits, the Santa Fe Institute will no longer fund the development of Swarm. We must become self-sufficient within a year or cease to exist. If you or others within your organization are able to make a year-end tax deductible contribution to the Swarm Program at SFI, please contact Irene Lee, lee@santafe.edu, for further information. Thank you for your ongoing support, The Swarm Team at the Santa Fe Institute. III. Swarm version 1.0.4 Swarm version 1.0.4 has left the larval stage and is now available to download from our website: http://www.santafe.edu/projects/swarm/release.html The documentation is still on its way so please read the notes on Changes and the "Compatibility for 1.0.4" page for details. Various changes and fixes have been incorporated: changes to InFile, Manor's mods to NodeItem.m, Sven's AppendFile and reverse QSort. Dwight's safe probes Probe and control panel positioning Print format in probes Changes to seeds in random.m Raster int in Tkobj.c The following errant behavior has been reported: The default compiler goes to cc if the user doesn't set up a configuration so be sure to specify gcc as your compiler. IV. Java GUI progress report Doug Orr is making progress on the port to the Windows NT platform. Currently heatbugs and the stock market simulation are fully functional. The next objective is to get the bank simulation up and running using the graph library. We will soon be needing volunteers to test the alpha build. If you are interested please send email to doug@santafe.edu. V. The Annual Swarm Survey The annual Swarm Survey will reach your e-mailbox before year's end. The information you provide will help us get a better understanding of your needs so that appropriate decisions can be made about long-range goals and the future of Swarm. The survey will be conducted by Scott Christley of NET-Community and the information you provide will be kept strictly confidential. To encourage your timely response, we will randomly select 10 people from the pool of respondents to receive free Swarm t-shirts. (Drawing date to be announced.) Bee the first one in your local swarm to own one! VI. Swarmfest/GIS '98 update Preliminary feedback shows that almost all of the respondents who wish to attend Swarmfest/GIS '98 are available on March 20-24th. Thus it is unlikely that the conference dates will change. VII. New bug-swarm mailing list We have created a new mailing list called "bug-swarm". We established the list is to ensure careful tracking of bug reports and to create a forum for detailed technical discussion and analysis. When reporting a bug to bug-swarm please include a test case. ========= The Swarm Pheromone is created by the members of the Swarm project at the Santa Fe Institute. For more information on the Swarm Project, see http://www.santafe.edu/projects/swarm. Comments, corrections, and contributions should be sent to swarm@santafe.edu. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Wed Dec 17 04:08:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15851; Wed, 17 Dec 97 04:08:15 MST From: Mr S M Emsley Message-Id: <199712171110.LAA22020@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Illegal Instruction: swarm1.0.3 on sparc-solaris To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:10:55 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Having successfully cajoled a system admin to install the sparc-solaris binary build of swarm_1.0.3 the following error dampened my spirits: Building heatbugs - O.K no compiler or linker messages Running heatbugs - illegal instruction _obj_initModule (module=0x1f418c) at Program.m:179 179 Type_c ***typeID, *type = nil; 180 char **symbol, **symbolName, symbolType = 0; 187 if ( ! _obj_modules ) initModules(); initModules () at Program.m:88 88 moduleSuper = [Module_super_ self]; Program received signal SIGILL, Illegal instruction. 0x17822c in __objc_init_install_dtable () The gcc version is 2.7.2.3.f.1 sparc-sun-solaris 2.5.1 I notice that there seems to be sparc_sun_solaris 2.4 files hanging around. For instance libobjc.a exits both in /usr/local/gnu/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.4/2.7.2.1.f.1/libobjc.a /usr/local/gnu/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.5.1/2.7.2.3.f.1/libobjc.a Could this be the source of the problems? Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Steve Emsley University of Warwick ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Wed Dec 17 08:07:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17841; Wed, 17 Dec 97 08:07:32 MST Message-Id: <9712171507.AA17836@sfi.santafe.edu> From: Ginger Booth Subject: Re: Linux/WindowsNT To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 9:57:56 EST In-Reply-To: ; from "Paul E. Johnson" at Dec 16, 97 1:46 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Thanks, everybody, for the input. Shall be interesting.... ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Wed Dec 17 08:39:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18345; Wed, 17 Dec 97 08:39:09 MST Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:41:42 +0000 (GMT) From: Jan Kreft X-Sender: sabjk@thor To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Linux/WindowsNT In-Reply-To: <9712161859.AA01065@sfi.santafe.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hi, On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Ginger Booth wrote: > So I need to bone up on WinNT/Linux, enough that I can create a > cross-platform network, of (I think?) machines interoperable WinNT/Linux, > by user/on demand, NFS'd together, probably with HPUX machines still in > the mix, and possibly SGI's and an ancient SparcStation. With common > accessories (multimedia station, backups, zip drive, printers, application > depositories both Linux and WinNT side, etc.) Like, "WinNT for Dummies" > probably lacks needed detail. I recently stumbled across an article about OpenNT. This might be what you want? OpenNT allows running of Linux/Unix applications on NT, that is, you can run WinWord etc. on NT and at the same time run gcc etc. on Linux on NT on the same machine! An X Server is included. Most GNU stuff runs according to the marketing hype at http://www.softway.com/Opennt/home.htm though my beloved ;-) emacs is not (yet?) on the list of working apps. I'm seriously thinking of installing OpenNT myself, so any comments/experiences with OpenNT from others are welcome. Hope this helps, Jan. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Wed Dec 17 09:16:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19072; Wed, 17 Dec 97 09:16:48 MST To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Illegal Instruction: swarm1.0.3 on sparc-solaris References: <199712171110.LAA22020@holly.csv.warwick.ac.uk> From: marcusd@cathcart.sysc.pdx.edu (Marcus G. Daniels) Date: 17 Dec 1997 08:19:34 -0800 In-Reply-To: Mr S M Emsley's message of Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:10:55 +0000 (GMT) Message-Id: Lines: 31 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.1 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu >>>>> "SE" == S M Emsley writes: SE> Program received signal SIGILL, Illegal instruction. SE> 0x17822c in __objc_init_install_dtable () SE> The gcc version is 2.7.2.3.f.1 sparc-sun-solaris 2.5.1 SE> I notice that there seems to be sparc_sun_solaris 2.4 files SE> hanging around. For instance libobjc.a exits both in SE> /usr/local/gnu/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.4/2.7.2.1.f.1/libobjc.a SE> /usr/local/gnu/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.5.1/2.7.2.3.f.1/libobjc.a What is probably causing this is that the binary distribution you downloaded was compiled with a different version or subversion of GCC than your local GCC. Although I don't actually know which version of GCC was used to compile the binary distribution, I'm almost certain it wasn't a Fortran-equipped backend, like yours (I suspect the binary distribution was built on Solaris 2.5 using gcc-2.7.2). The reason for your two different GCC backend subdirectories is to accomodate a different include file structure between Solaris 2.4 and Solaris 2.5 (even 2.5 and 2.5.1 are different). When GCC is installed there is a lengthly `fixincludes' procedure that checks all the include files for objectionable constructs and then fixes them, to be installed within the GCC tree. I'd suggest getting your sysadmin to do a real source install. Once you've got Tcl, Tk, BLT, and tclobjc installed systemwide, its pretty easy to rebuild Swarm whenever you want. I wouldn't bother investigating the weirdities of a binary distribution if I were you. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Wed Dec 17 09:43:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19608; Wed, 17 Dec 97 09:43:36 MST To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Linux/WindowsNT References: From: marcusd@cathcart.sysc.pdx.edu (Marcus G. Daniels) Date: 17 Dec 1997 08:46:27 -0800 In-Reply-To: Jan Kreft's message of Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:41:42 +0000 (GMT) Message-Id: Lines: 24 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.1 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu >>>>> "JK" == Jan Kreft writes: JK> I recently stumbled across an article about OpenNT. This might be JK> what you want? OpenNT allows running of Linux/Unix applications on NT, JK> that is, you can run WinWord etc. on NT and at the same time JK> run gcc etc. on Linux on NT on the same machine! An X Server is JK> included. Most GNU stuff runs according to the marketing hype at JK> http://www.softway.com/Opennt/home.htm JK> though my beloved ;-) emacs is not (yet?) on the list of working JK> apps. If what you want is Emacs, GCC and other GNU things for Win95 or NT. I'd suggest these: http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/voelker/ntemacs.html (I think this Emacs port is very good. Geoff Voelker, the author of the port, is a direct contributor to Emacs.) http://www.cygnus.com/misc/gnu-win32 (This is being used for the Swarm GUI Java development.) ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Wed Dec 17 10:00:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20048; Wed, 17 Dec 97 10:00:06 MST Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:02:59 -0600 () From: Paul Johnson To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Linux/WindowsNT In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-X-Sender: pauljohn@lark.cc.ukans.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu If you get OpenNT working, I'd like to know. I installed it and the x server is fine, but it doesn't run linux applications very well. I tried to compile a swarm program --static and it didn't run at all. If you can get it to go, I'd like to know more about how. After the free 30 days, OpenNT gets kinda pricey too. On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, Jan Kreft wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Ginger Booth wrote: > > > So I need to bone up on WinNT/Linux, enough that I can create a > > cross-platform network, of (I think?) machines interoperable WinNT/Linux, > > by user/on demand, NFS'd together, probably with HPUX machines still in > > the mix, and possibly SGI's and an ancient SparcStation. With common > > accessories (multimedia station, backups, zip drive, printers, application > > depositories both Linux and WinNT side, etc.) Like, "WinNT for Dummies" > > probably lacks needed detail. > > I recently stumbled across an article about OpenNT. This might be what you > want? OpenNT allows running of Linux/Unix applications on NT, that is, you > can run WinWord etc. on NT and at the same time run gcc etc. on Linux on > NT on the same machine! An X Server is included. Most GNU stuff runs > according to the marketing hype at > > http://www.softway.com/Opennt/home.htm > > though my beloved ;-) emacs is not (yet?) on the list of working apps. > > I'm seriously thinking of installing OpenNT myself, so any > comments/experiences with OpenNT from others are welcome. > > Hope this helps, > > Jan. > > > ================================== > Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day > to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. > [un]subscribing), please send a message to > with "help" in the body of the message. > ================================== > Paul E. Johnson pauljohn@ukans.edu Associate Professor http://lark.cc.ukans.edu/~pauljohn Dept. of Political Science Fax: (913) 864-5700 University of Kansas Phone: (913) 864-9086 Lawrence, Kansas 66045 ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Thu Dec 18 09:29:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12657; Thu, 18 Dec 97 09:29:25 MST Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971218083357.0076e100@ 128.111.104.23> X-Sender: cath@ 128.111.104.23 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:33:59 -0800 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu From: "Catherine Dibble" Subject: Re: Density Graph, How? Cc: Cath Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Greetings Paul, As usual, I'm savoring vacation time as my opportunity to spend more time Swarming than usual. I was very interested in both of your Swarm support/modeling posts this fall, re Voronoi/ Thiessen polygons and re agents crossing paths. This density / neighbor modeling is dear to my modeling heart as well, perhaps no surprise? Have you done more with this C library from Dave Watson? How does that compare to the Voronoi utilities of Chris Gold and Geoffrey Edwards? Have you seen Geoffrey Edwards's COSIT'93 paper? It is one of my favorites, and perhaps *extremely* relevant to Swarm Geographers. Edwards, Geoffrey (1993) The Voronoi model and cultural space: applications to the social sciences and humanities in: Andrew U. Frank and Irene Campari (editors) _Spatial Information Theory: A Theoretical Basis for GIS_ Lecture Notes in Computer Science #716 (COSIT'93 Proceedings) Thoughts? Have you had much luck adding it to Swarm? Also, do you know whether much is happening with Swarm - GIS? I remember the list meltdown, but has it really been that quiet since then? Am I the only one missing it? Wishing you warm holidays and also time to play! :) Catherine *-----------------------------------------------------------------------* | Catherine Dibble | | | Department of Geography | "Theory provides the maps that turn an | | University of California | uncoordinated set of experiments or | | Santa Barbara, CA 93106 | computer simulations into a cumulative | | | exploration." | | | | | cath@geog.ucsb.edu | -- Booker, Goldberg, Holland (1989) | | www.geog.ucsb.edu/~cath | _Artificial Intelligence_ 40:235-282 | *-----------------------------------------------------------------------* ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Thu Dec 18 13:09:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17243; Thu, 18 Dec 97 13:09:21 MST Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:12:09 -0700 From: sanduku@nr.usu.edu (Dr. Paul Box) Message-Id: <199712182012.NAA11134@arid.usu.edu> To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: hash tables in objects, or creating variables on the fly Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: DGJXo5lGdxX6b84QSUjTKQ== Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hello group I have been working on a problem where I would like to have an object create variables "on the fly", much like is possible in perl. One possible solution suggested to my by a NeXT-Step programmer is that this could be done using hash tables. In my Objective-C reference book, there is a brief (one sentance) mention of a HashTable object in NeXT's Objective-C, but nothing else. In the online manuals, I get into a loop when I click onto the entry describing "internal hash tables" (it simply kicks me back to the table of contents). My question has two parts: 1- Has anyone on this group worked with hash tables in their objects? could you point me to infomration on what they are and how to use them? 2- Is there another way in swarm to give an object a new state variable at runtime (ie, without editing the source code and recompiling things?) I have been thinking about ways of fudging this using strings or linked lists, but they seem slow and awkward. Any ideas would be appreciated ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Thu Dec 18 13:12:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17387; Thu, 18 Dec 97 13:12:00 MST Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:14:45 -0600 (CST) From: "Paul E. Johnson" X-Sender: pauljohn@valinux To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Do you see this Blt_ZoomStack error from heatbugs-1.0.1? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu After my (well, admittedly heroic) effort to make swarm go in Redhat 5, I didn't fuss with it until today. When I ran the new heatbugs101, it looks OK on the screen, but in the console from which it came, I see this error. What gives? [pauljohn@valinux heatbugs-1.0.1]$ heatbugs (Tcl -eval:) invalid command name "Blt_ZoomStack" while executing "unknown_pre_tclObjc $name $args" invoked from within "if {[llength [info procs unknown_pre_tclObjc]]} { unknown_pre_tclObjc $name $args } else { error "in unknown: invalid command name: ..." invoked from within "if {[string match *@0x* $name]} { return [uplevel tclObjc_msg_send $name $args] } else { if {[llength [info procs unknown_pre_tclObjc]]} ..." (procedure "unknown" line 2) invoked from within "Blt_ZoomStack .w0x8169ec8.w0x8169c00" while evaluating: Blt_ZoomStack .w0x8169ec8.w0x8169c00; Blt_Crosshairs .w0x8169ec8.w0x8169c00; Blt_ActiveLegend .w0x8169ec8.w0x8169c00; Blt_ClosestPoint .w0x8169ec8.w0x8169c00 ------------------------------------------------------------- Also, I'm trying to figure how to revise Swarm programs in light of the runtime error indicating that doTkEvents is outmoded. Will things like this happen lots? Paul E. Johnson pauljohn@ukans.edu Dept. of Political Science Office: (913) 864-9086 University of Kansas FAX: (913) 864-5700 Lawrence, Kansas 66045 Home: (913) 842-9916 ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Thu Dec 18 14:21:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19161; Thu, 18 Dec 97 14:21:30 MST Message-Id: <34998DC3.1CFDA215@mail.jps.net> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:55:31 -0800 From: vannarin Organization: jps.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Please add me to swarm supportig list X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------0C048F56FF9DEB1127DEDF62" Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0C048F56FF9DEB1127DEDF62 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please add me to swarm supporting list. Here is my email address vannarin@jps.net. Thanks, Vannarin Heng --------------0C048F56FF9DEB1127DEDF62 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for vannarin Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: vannarin n: ;vannarin email;internet: vannarin@mail.jps.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE end: vcard --------------0C048F56FF9DEB1127DEDF62-- ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Thu Dec 18 15:55:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21170; Thu, 18 Dec 97 15:55:10 MST To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Do you see this Blt_ZoomStack error from heatbugs-1.0.1? References: From: marcusd@cathcart.sysc.pdx.edu (Marcus G. Daniels) Date: 18 Dec 1997 14:58:03 -0800 In-Reply-To: "Paul E. Johnson"'s message of Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:14:45 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.1 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu >>>>> "PJ" == Paul E Johnson writes: PJ> After my (well, admittedly heroic) effort to make swarm go in PJ> Redhat 5, I didn't fuss with it until today. When I ran the new PJ> heatbugs101, it looks OK on the screen, but in the console from PJ> which it came, I see this error. What gives? [pauljohn@valinux heatbugs-1.0.1]$ heatbugs (Tcl -eval:) invalid command name "Blt_ZoomStack" while executing Check to see that you have a directory like /usr/local/lib/blt2.[13], and the files bltGraph.tcl and tclIndex in this directory. (This particular routine is implemented in Tcl by BLT.) Also check to see that if you have a BLT_LIBRARY environment variable it corresponds to this directory. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Fri Dec 19 11:01:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09166; Fri, 19 Dec 97 11:01:04 MST Message-Id: <9712191800.AA09160@sfi.santafe.edu> From: Ginger Booth Subject: Re: hash tables in objects, or creating variables on the fly To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Date: Fri, 19 Dec 97 12:51:39 EST In-Reply-To: <199712182012.NAA11134@arid.usu.edu>; from "Dr. Paul Box" at Dec 18, 97 1:12 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hi, Paul, > 2- Is there another way in swarm to give an object a new state variable at > runtime (ie, without editing the source code and recompiling things?) I have > been thinking about ways of fudging this using strings or linked lists, but they > seem slow and awkward. I'd simply use a dynamically sized array of state vars. FWIW. Ciao, Ginger ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 20 13:59:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25195; Sat, 20 Dec 97 13:59:49 MST Subject: Swarm documentation for 1.0.4 From: Alex Lancaster X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Date: 19 Dec 1997 21:02:58 -0700 Message-Id: Lines: 21 Apparently-To: swarm-announce-outgoing Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu As an extra special holiday gift to the extended Hive: The Swarm documentation for release 1.0.4 is now available, to complement the recent Swarm source 1.0.4 release. Please feel free to direct any problems to . Please refer to the Swarm World-Wide Web release page for download URLs. http://www.santafe.edu/projects/swarm/release.html Alex, for the Hive at the SFI. -- Alex Lancaster | e-mail: alex@santafe.edu Swarm Developer | web: http://www.santafe.edu/~alex Santa Fe Institute | tel: +1-(505) 982-8800 (ext 242) ------------------------------------------------------------------ ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 20 13:59:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25198; Sat, 20 Dec 97 13:59:51 MST Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 03:14:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199712201014.DAA15775@wijiji.santafe.edu> From: "Marcus G. Daniels" To: swarm-announce@sfi.santafe.edu Subject: Swarm 1.0.4 binaries Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu To the collectively evolving, Swarm 1.0.4 binary distributions are now available for GNU/Linux, Irix 5.3, and Solaris 2.5. Please refer to the release page for downloading details: http://www.santafe.edu/projects/swarm/release.html#binaries As usual, please send questions or problems to . If you do have a bug report, it would be helpful to us if you would CC your message to as well! ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sat Dec 20 14:05:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25398; Sat, 20 Dec 97 14:05:46 MST Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:23:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199712202023.NAA18441@wijiji.santafe.edu> From: "Marcus G. Daniels" To: swarm-announce@sfi.santafe.edu Subject: Swarmapps-1.0.1 now available Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu To the collectively evolving, The Swarmapps package is now synchronized with Swarm-1.0.4. ftp://ftp.santafe.edu/pub/swarm/swarmapps-1.0.1.tar.gz Swarmapps is: heatbugs, hello-world, market, mousetrap, template, and tutorial. There aren't any enhancements. Swarmapps-1.0.1 is just to keep everything working together. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 22 05:05:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14560; Mon, 22 Dec 97 05:05:31 MST Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:09:41 +0100 (MET) From: Laszlo Gulyas To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Swarm documentation for 1.0.4 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu If I remember well, once there was an issue on swarm-support of having a postscript (or at least in one printable) version of the docs. Is there such a thing? I was not able to find it anyway... Yours, Laszlo Gulyas PS: Merry Xmas for you all. On 19 Dec 1997, Alex Lancaster wrote: > > As an extra special holiday gift to the extended Hive: > > The Swarm documentation for release 1.0.4 is now available, to > complement the recent Swarm source 1.0.4 release. Please feel > free to direct any problems to . > > Please refer to the Swarm World-Wide Web release page for download > URLs. > > http://www.santafe.edu/projects/swarm/release.html > > Alex, > > for the Hive at the SFI. > > -- > Alex Lancaster | e-mail: alex@santafe.edu > Swarm Developer | web: http://www.santafe.edu/~alex > Santa Fe Institute | tel: +1-(505) 982-8800 (ext 242) > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ================================== > Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day > to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. > [un]subscribing), please send a message to > with "help" in the body of the message. > ================================== > ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 22 05:16:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14696; Mon, 22 Dec 97 05:16:56 MST Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 05:35:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199712221235.FAA10337@trail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Swarm documentation for 1.0.4 In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.35 under Emacs 20.2.1 From: "glen e. p. ropella" Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Laszlo Gulyas writes: > > If I remember well, once there was an issue on swarm-support of having a > postscript (or at least in one printable) version of the docs. Is there > such a thing? I was not able to find it anyway... Hey Laszlo, If you go to the old swarm directory (http://www.santafe.edu/projects/swarm/old/old-swarm/), you'll find a swarm-1.0.0-ps.tar.gz. But, I made this by hand with html2ps. We still have the general problem of automatically generating postscript. html2ps could be scripted to create a ps of the swarmdocs; but, page ordering is still a problem. A general solution is to use something like SGML for the base document and then generate html, ps, and text, from that. But, we simply haven't done it, yet. Now that we have a full 3 ftes on the project, my guess is that you'll see this pretty soon. glen ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 23 14:18:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11279; Tue, 23 Dec 97 14:18:55 MST Organization: Universita' Ca' Foscari Venezia X-Sender: alex@157.138.1.11 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 20:45:58 +0100 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu From: Alessandro Perrone Subject: Greetings Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hi all Waiting for furter verion of Swarm on other platforms (Macintosh, Winnt) I send to you and all your relatives the best whishes of a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, full of joy and satisfaction. Hope to see you soon. Alex ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo--------------------------------------------------- .oooO Alex Perrone - alex@unive.it alex@math.unipd.it ( ) Oooo. Home Page: http://venus.unive.it/~alex ---\ (----( )---------------------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 23 14:24:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11470; Tue, 23 Dec 97 14:24:32 MST Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 21:27:22 GMT From: Randall Gray Message-Id: <199712232127.VAA04285@njal.hba.marine.csiro.au> To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: Greetings References: In-Reply-To: X-Loop: Randall.Gray@marine.csiro.au Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Merry Christmas and Happy new year..... Just a short note to say I am on vacation till the 5th. I'll answer your letters when I get back... ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sun Dec 28 16:07:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11345; Sun, 28 Dec 97 16:07:38 MST Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971229000402.006961b4@email.alpcom.it> X-Sender: terna@email.alpcom.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 00:04:02 +0100 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu From: Pietro Terna Subject: 1.0.4 and linux Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hi All, I'm using the new binary distribution of Swarm for Linux, adopting the swarm-1.0.4-i586-pc-linux-gnulibc1.tar.gz one. Compiling, for example, heatbugs - but the same happens with other examples - I obtain the following message: /usr/i486-linux/bin/ld: cannot open -ldl: No such file or directory (My Linux box was working fine with the 1.0.3 release). Many thanks for any help, yours, Pietro ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Sun Dec 28 16:16:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11494; Sun, 28 Dec 97 16:16:58 MST Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 23:19:31 GMT From: Randall Gray Message-Id: <199712282319.XAA03987@njal.hba.marine.csiro.au> To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: 1.0.4 and linux References: <3.0.1.32.19971229000402.006961b4@email.alpcom.it> In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971229000402.006961b4@email.alpcom.it> X-Loop: Randall.Gray@marine.csiro.au Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Merry Christmas and Happy new year..... Just a short note to say I am on vacation till the 5th. I'll answer your letters when I get back... ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 29 03:16:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17022; Mon, 29 Dec 97 03:16:04 MST Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971229101636.00691c70@email.alpcom.it> X-Sender: terna@email.alpcom.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:16:36 +0100 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu From: Pietro Terna Subject: tutorial Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hi All, some minor observations about tutorial application. 1. We just had a tutorial-1.0.1 version before the last one; what the differences? 2. In my opinion, one difference is the elimination of the simpleExperBug example (effectively, trying to compile it against 1.0.4, I've obtained a lot of warning messages). 3. The present tutorial-1.0.1, like the previous one, contains an error in bug.m within simpleObserverBug and simpleObserverBug2 (see the following lines, where the commented one is wrong): -drawSelfOn: (Raster *) r { // [r drawPointX: xPos Y: yPos Color: 3]; [r drawPointX: xPos Y: yPos Color: 2]; return self; Yours, Pietro ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 29 03:25:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17100; Mon, 29 Dec 97 03:25:55 MST Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:28:32 GMT From: Randall Gray Message-Id: <199712291028.KAA06854@njal.hba.marine.csiro.au> To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: tutorial References: <3.0.1.32.19971229101636.00691c70@email.alpcom.it> In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971229101636.00691c70@email.alpcom.it> X-Loop: Randall.Gray@marine.csiro.au Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Merry Christmas and Happy new year..... Just a short note to say I am on vacation till the 5th. I'll answer your letters when I get back... ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 29 09:08:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20102; Mon, 29 Dec 97 09:08:15 MST To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: 1.0.4 and linux References: <3.0.1.32.19971229000402.006961b4@email.alpcom.it> From: marcusd@cathcart.sysc.pdx.edu (Marcus G. Daniels) Date: 29 Dec 1997 08:11:17 -0800 In-Reply-To: Pietro Terna's message of Mon, 29 Dec 1997 00:04:02 +0100 Message-Id: Lines: 9 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.1 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu >>>>> "PT" == Pietro Terna writes: PT> /usr/i486-linux/bin/ld: cannot open -ldl: PT> No such file or directory Assuming you installed Tcl without a libdl, the "-ldl" can be removed from your configuration; Tcl should be the only place dynamic linker routines are used. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 29 09:15:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20209; Mon, 29 Dec 97 09:15:52 MST Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:18:27 GMT From: Randall Gray Message-Id: <199712291618.QAA08661@njal.hba.marine.csiro.au> To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: 1.0.4 and linux References: <3.0.1.32.19971229000402.006961b4@email.alpcom.it> In-Reply-To: X-Loop: Randall.Gray@marine.csiro.au Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Merry Christmas and Happy new year..... Just a short note to say I am on vacation till the 5th. I'll answer your letters when I get back... ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 29 15:28:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24981; Mon, 29 Dec 97 15:28:39 MST Message-Id: <199712292234.RAA05454@mailgate2.cdc.gov> From: "Lin, Lillian S." To: swarm support Subject: nt version? Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 17:47:00 -0500 X-Priority: 3 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu on the web page it says there will be an NT version available some time in 1997. is this version still a possibility for the not to distant future? thanks! ll ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 29 16:08:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25616; Mon, 29 Dec 97 16:08:06 MST Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971229233219.00696a04@email.alpcom.it> X-Sender: terna@email.alpcom.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 23:32:19 +0100 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu From: Pietro Terna Subject: Re: 1.0.4 and linux In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19971229000402.006961b4@email.alpcom.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Dear Marcus, eliminating -ldl from the configuration, I obtain: gcc -g -L../../swarm/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -o heatbugs Heatbug.o HeatSpace.o main.o HeatbugModelSwarm.o HeatbugObserverSwarm.o HeatbugBatchSwarm.o ../../swarm/lib/swarm.x -lobjc -lX11 -lm ../../swarm/lib/swarm.x: In function `TclLoadFile': ../../swarm/lib/swarm.x(.text+0x102f43): undefined reference to `dlopen' ../../swarm/lib/swarm.x(.text+0x102f53): undefined reference to `dlsym' ../../swarm/lib/swarm.x(.text+0x102f62): undefined reference to `dlsym' ../../swarm/lib/swarm.x(.text+0x102f73): undefined reference to `dlerror' make: *** [heatbugs] Error 1 As an alternative solution, I could install Tcl with a libld, but it's not clear to me how to obtain this; in README file in Tcl distribution (both in 7.6 and in 8.0) there are no references to dynamic linker or to libdl. Yours, PT At 08.11 29/12/97 -0800, you wrote: >>>>>> "PT" == Pietro Terna writes: > >PT> /usr/i486-linux/bin/ld: cannot open -ldl: >PT> No such file or directory > >Assuming you installed Tcl without a libdl, the "-ldl" can be removed >from your configuration; Tcl should be the only place dynamic linker >routines are used. > > > ================================== > Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day > to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. > [un]subscribing), please send a message to > with "help" in the body of the message. > ================================== > ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 29 16:23:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25827; Mon, 29 Dec 97 16:23:31 MST Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 23:26:06 GMT Message-Id: <199712292326.XAA10820@njal.hba.marine.csiro.au> From: Randall Gray To: swarm-modelling@santafe.edu Cc: swarm-support@santafe.edu In-Reply-To: <199712231957.TAA03882@njal.hba.marine.csiro.au> (message from Randall Gray on Tue, 23 Dec 1997 19:57:35 GMT) Subject: apologies... Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu My apologies. A rampant vacation program that got away from me. No excuse. Think I'll just go and find a rock to crawl under... Randall ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Mon Dec 29 17:06:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26438; Mon, 29 Dec 97 17:06:19 MST To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Re: 1.0.4 and linux References: <3.0.1.32.19971229000402.006961b4@email.alpcom.it> <3.0.1.32.19971229233219.00696a04@email.alpcom.it> From: marcusd@cathcart.sysc.pdx.edu (Marcus G. Daniels) Date: 29 Dec 1997 16:09:21 -0800 In-Reply-To: Pietro Terna's message of Mon, 29 Dec 1997 23:32:19 +0100 Message-Id: Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.1 Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu >>>>> "PT" == Pietro Terna writes: PT> eliminating -ldl from the configuration, I obtain: ../../swarm/lib/swarm.x: In function `TclLoadFile': ../../swarm/lib/swarm.x(.text+0x102f43): undefined reference to `dlopen' ../../swarm/lib/swarm.x(.text+0x102f53): undefined reference to `dlsym' ../../swarm/lib/swarm.x(.text+0x102f62): undefined reference to `dlsym' ../../swarm/lib/swarm.x(.text+0x102f73): undefined reference to `dlerror' make: *** [heatbugs] Error 1 Ah, of course! Sorry! That binary distribution was built on a system that had the dynamic linking library, and thus a Tcl equipped that way, so libdl will really be needed. The required parts of Tcl are already frozen into that `swarm.x' file, so it won't be helpful to change your install of Tcl. But if your GNU/Linux box is Debian or Red Hat, there is a libdl package that you can install without much trouble. The dynamic linker library is really is something you should have on a system you are using for development. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 30 05:42:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03259; Tue, 30 Dec 97 05:42:58 MST Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:50:20 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Riolo To: Swarm-Support Subject: make clean in swarm-1.0.4 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu I don't know if this is how you intended things, but make clean doesn't quite do that. The headers that make creates the first time through remain, and thus on a make after a make clean one gets lots of messages like: cp: cannot create ../../bin/m2h: Permission denied No big deal, but things would be cleaner if that didn't occur. - r Rick Riolo rlriolo@umich.edu Program for Study of Complex Systems (PSCS) 4068 Randall Lab University of Michigan Ann Arbor MI 48109-1120 Phone: 313 763 3323 Fax: 313 763 9267 http://pscs.physics.lsa.umich.edu/PEOPLE/rlr-home.html http://pscs.physics.lsa.umich.edu//pscs.html ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 30 07:24:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04047; Tue, 30 Dec 97 07:24:58 MST Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 09:32:22 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Riolo To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Cc: rlriolo@umich.edu Subject: swarndocs 1.0.4 index minor problem Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu I think the following in swarmdocs-1.0.4/index.html To Do list^M should be To Do list^M That is, remove the ../ - r Rick Riolo rlriolo@umich.edu Program for Study of Complex Systems (PSCS) 4068 Randall Lab University of Michigan Ann Arbor MI 48109-1120 Phone: 313 763 3323 Fax: 313 763 9267 http://pscs.physics.lsa.umich.edu/PEOPLE/rlr-home.html http://pscs.physics.lsa.umich.edu//pscs.html ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 30 16:09:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10007; Tue, 30 Dec 97 16:09:45 MST Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971231000344.006b8c7c@email.alpcom.it> X-Sender: terna@email.alpcom.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 00:03:44 +0100 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu From: Pietro Terna Subject: Re: 1.0.4 and linux In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19971229000402.006961b4@email.alpcom.it> <3.0.1.32.19971229233219.00696a04@email.alpcom.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hi Marcus and All, things with libdl (-ldl) in a Linux Box (anyway, a Slackware Linux Box) are a little bit complex. I'm reporting here my analysis and my solution. Yours, Pietro 1. In my Linux box, in /lib, I have libdl.so.1.7.14 and libdl.so.1 which is a link to libdl.so.1.7.14 2. Swarm 1.0.4 is unable to see them. 3. libdl.so* is a small shared library, necessary to handle dlopen, dlerror, dlsym functions (which are used to operate with shared libraries); libdl.a simply does not exist (this is my opinion). 4. Creating, in /lib, the symbolic link ln -sfn libdl.so.1.7.14 libdl.a or ln -sfn libdl.so.1.7.14 libdl.so (I've chosen this one) Swarm can see the library and -ldl works. At 16.09 29/12/97 -0800, you wrote: >>>>>> "PT" == Pietro Terna writes: > >PT> eliminating -ldl from the configuration, I obtain: > >../../swarm/lib/swarm.x: In function `TclLoadFile': >../../swarm/lib/swarm.x(.text+0x102f43): undefined reference to `dlopen' >../../swarm/lib/swarm.x(.text+0x102f53): undefined reference to `dlsym' >../../swarm/lib/swarm.x(.text+0x102f62): undefined reference to `dlsym' >../../swarm/lib/swarm.x(.text+0x102f73): undefined reference to `dlerror' >make: *** [heatbugs] Error 1 > >Ah, of course! Sorry! That binary distribution was built on a system >that had the dynamic linking library, and thus a Tcl equipped that >way, so libdl will really be needed. The required parts of Tcl are already >frozen into that `swarm.x' file, so it won't be helpful to change your >install of Tcl. > >But if your GNU/Linux box is Debian or Red Hat, there is a libdl >package that you can install without much trouble. The dynamic linker >library is really is something you should have on a system you are >using for development. > > ================================== > Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day > to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. > [un]subscribing), please send a message to > with "help" in the body of the message. > ================================== > ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Tue Dec 30 16:09:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09999; Tue, 30 Dec 97 16:09:23 MST Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971231000432.006b8cc4@email.alpcom.it> X-Sender: terna@email.alpcom.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 00:04:32 +0100 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu From: Pietro Terna Subject: heatbugs and 1.0.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hi All, starting heatbugs (1.0.1) compiled with swarm 1.0.4 in my Linux Box (I've adopted the binary distribution "linux-gnulibc1") I'm obtaining the messages reported below; heatbugs runs, but I'm noticing a minor problem: in the graph the line color no more changes to blue when a line is pointed. Yours, Pietro ------- ptLinux:~/swarm/apps/heatbugs$ heatbugs (Tcl -eval:) invalid command name "Blt_ZoomStack" while executing "unknown_pre_tclObjc $name $args" invoked from within "if {[llength [info procs unknown_pre_tclObjc]]} { unknown_pre_tclObjc $name $args } else { error "in unknown: invalid command name: ..." invoked from within "if {[string match *@0x* $name]} { return [uplevel tclObjc_msg_send $name $args] } else { if {[llength [info procs unknown_pre_tclObjc]]} ..." (procedure "unknown" line 2) invoked from within "Blt_ZoomStack .w0x829b938.w0x829b5d8" while evaluating: Blt_ZoomStack .w0x829b938.w0x829b5d8; Blt_Crosshairs .w0x829b938.w0x829b5d8; Blt_ActiveLegend .w0x829b938.w0x829b5d8; Blt_ClosestPoint .w0x829b938.w0x829b5d8 ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Wed Dec 31 11:00:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19956; Wed, 31 Dec 97 11:00:08 MST Message-Id: <34AA8931.46C5@one.net> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:04:33 -0500 From: bleydorf@one.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Subject: Linux 4.2 question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu Hi, I hesitated sending this message, since we'll all get one of those "automated" reponses from Randel, but anyway... I have been trying to install Linux 4.2 on two seperate machines and have different, yet simular problems... (Note: I decide to use 4.2 instead of 5.0 since 5.0 just came out, and might not be as bug free as 4.2. I have been using 4.1 on a work machine with little problems, unfortunately I dont have the install disk for 4.1, and do have 4.2.) On my home PC, I have Windows 95 (my guess as a problem causer) and Win NT (installed on a standard Fat 16 partition). I partitioned a Linux Native, and linux swap, and when through the Linux install, with "No problems?", but when I try to boot to linux, it hangs, I tried the standard linux lifo, and also system commander (a multiple boot program), both give me the same result, namely I get "Li", not "Linux:" at the bottom of the screen and it just hangs. I also tried to install the same version on a laptop at work (a compaq). This machine has a drive that is totally linux native, with a linux swap disk, and installed Linux 4.2 with no problem, but when I try to boot up, it just gives me the simular "Li" and hangs. Does anyone have any ideas that might be helpful? Or can you direct me to a source that might. I got Redhat 4.2 from a Linux book, and not Redhat, so I dont think I can get support from them??? Thanks in advance for any offered help, Have a happy new year, Brad. ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ================================== From majordom Wed Dec 31 11:10:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by sfi.santafe.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20115; Wed, 31 Dec 97 11:10:19 MST Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971231181637.006b858c@email.alpcom.it> X-Sender: terna@email.alpcom.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 18:16:37 +0100 To: swarm-support@santafe.edu From: Pietro Terna Subject: Re: make clean in swarm-1.0.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-swarm-support@santafe.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: swarm-support@santafe.edu In my Linux box make clean works as in version 1.0.3, simply cleaning the dir. Pietro At 07.50 30/12/97 -0500, you wrote: > >I don't know if this is how you intended things, but >make clean doesn't quite do that. The headers that make >creates the first time through remain, and thus on a make >after a make clean one gets lots of messages like: > cp: cannot create ../../bin/m2h: Permission denied >No big deal, but things would be cleaner if that didn't occur. > >- r > >Rick Riolo rlriolo@umich.edu >Program for Study of Complex Systems (PSCS) >4068 Randall Lab >University of Michigan Ann Arbor MI 48109-1120 >Phone: 313 763 3323 Fax: 313 763 9267 >http://pscs.physics.lsa.umich.edu/PEOPLE/rlr-home.html >http://pscs.physics.lsa.umich.edu//pscs.html > > > ================================== > Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day > to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. > [un]subscribing), please send a message to > with "help" in the body of the message. > ================================== > ================================== Swarm-Support is for discussion of the technical details of the day to day usage of Swarm. For list administration needs (esp. [un]subscribing), please send a message to with "help" in the body of the message. ==================================