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Re: [AUCTeX-devel] Support for expl3

From: Mosè Giordano
Subject: Re: [AUCTeX-devel] Support for expl3
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 12:31:29 +0200

Hi Sean

2015-04-03 14:52 GMT+02:00 Sean Allred <address@hidden>:
> On Apr 3, 2015, at 1:01 AM, David Kastrup <address@hidden> wrote:
> Please keep in mind that we need copyright assignments from all authors
> of software, and to trace all copyrightable contributions.
> I’ll get the forms in post-haste :)
> On Apr 3, 2015, at 7:10 AM, Mosè Giordano <address@hidden> wrote:
> As David already remembered, you and anyone sensibly helped you must
> sign copyright assignments for the style file to be included in
> The only thing that ‘sensibly helped me’ would be a syntax reminder from
> Emacs.SE ( in a case where I
> didn’t understand the docstring in emacs – I’m pretty confident that this is
> not needing of assignment, given how fundamental it is to Emacs development.
> (In legalese, it’s public knowledge in the domain.) Otherwise, this is
> completely my own work.

I wouldn't say the advices Anders Lindgren gave you can be considered
a real contribution, he explained you the syntax, but IANAL.  Anyway,
he has already some assignments for Emacs on file, but I'm not sure
they cover any contribution for Emacs.

If you agree to release you contributions to AUCTeX under the terms of
GPLv3 and to assign the copyright to FSF, fill this form

and follow the instructions in the header.  Keep in mind an assignment
for the AUCTeX package covers only contributions to AUCTeX, but
assignment for the Emacs package covers both Emacs and AUCTeX (and any
other package included in GNU Elpa repository), so you may want to
indicate the Emacs package if you intend to contribute to Emacs or
other GNU Elpa packages as well.

> A minor mode hooked into AUCTeX may be indeed the solution: you
> activate it when you want to write expl3 code, turn it off to come
> back to write good ol' LaTeX code.
> How do you think a separate dialect would be helpful?
> I received a reply from Frank, who writes:
> expl3 is by design fairly lowlevel and we made sure that it does in fact
> work on top of LaTeX2e, plain TeX and ConTeXt so in that respect it is a
> dialect of TeX, but it is also different as the other dialiects only partly
> work on top of the others if at all as they all attempt to provide a full
> universe not just a foundation - the corresponding full universe would be
> LaTeX3.
> In sum, expl3 is only tangentially related to LaTeX – LaTeX3 will be built
> with it, but other formats could be as well. In an ideal world, it makes
> sense for it to be its own mode (with its own bindings and code conventions
> as laid out in `texdoc l3styleguide`). (For example, brace indentation in
> standard TeX modes is *not* in agreement with the style guide.)
> It comes down to the basic fact that expl3 is a programming language and
> LaTeX is not (or not supposed to be). Implementing the support as a minor
> mode, while effective, would not be appropriate (in the lofty sense of what
> *should* be). There are of course other considerations, like the awkward
> middle ground `xparse` occupies, but I’m not sure how to fix that. Perhaps a
> minor mode *would* be the best option, but only if it can be sensibly (i.e.
> unobtrusively) activated in all of the TeX modes.
> I don’t *really* know how to ‘solve’ this problem, but I will be thinking
> about it throughout the day. I of course welcome any thoughts in the
> meantime :)

I understand how expl3 can be regarded as a different dialect from a
TeX point of view, but I meant how treating it as a different dialect
*in AUCTeX* would be helpful *for AUCTeX*.  I didnt' follow closely
introduction of dialects, but AFAICT dialects are specific to major
modes: `:latex' for `LaTeX-mode', ":texinfo" for `TeX-texinfo-mode',
and `:bibtex' for `bib-cite-minor-mode' (ok, this is a minor mode).
Dialects are useful to specify a style hook should be loaded in a
specific mode and not in another one, but expl3 style hook should be
loaded anyway in any buffer with LaTeX mode when requested, right?  Or
do you think there are cases in which expl3 style hook should not be


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