Re: Emacs learning curve

[Lennart Borgman]

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:24 PM, David Kastrup <address@hidden> wrote:
> Lennart Borgman <address@hidden> writes:
>
>> On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 7:51 PM, Chong Yidong <address@hidden> wrote:
>>> Ivan Kanis <address@hidden> writes:
>>>
>>>> I think turning on CUA mode by default would help first time users. If
>>>> there's a one line of lisp to turn it off and have the old behavior I
>>>> don't mind. I don't think veteran emacs user would mind either.
>>>
>>> No, having CUA mode on by default is off the table.
>>>
>>> This proposal has been discussed before, and there are many problems
>>> with it.  For instance, by default, C-c LETTER is reserved for user
>>> customizations; CUA prevents such key bindings when the region is
>>> active.
>>
>> Is not this a reason for making CUA mode default?
>
> No.
>
>> As long as it is not the default it will be a second class citizen
>
> It will remain a second class citizen, period, because its operation
> interferes with the normal Emacs operation and its most important
> keybindings.
>
>> and obstacles like this will remains. And those makes it quite a bit
>> harder for new users.
>
> Yes, getting coherent behavior from Emacs is much harder with CUA mode
> enabled.  It is not a good default setting for new users.
>
>>> Let's not revisit this discussion.  It is not difficult to turn on
>>> CUA mode, for those who want it; it's even in the Options menu.
>>
>> That is not the problem.
>
> The problem is that some people can't take "no" for an answer and will
> pretend they have not been given ample hearing when the results of a
> rational discussion were not to their liking.

Bullshit. I have heard this many times. It does not make the arguments better.

Just realize this is a difficult situation instead with no easy solution.

> The Emacs developing list is being bogged down increasingly by repeated
> whinings that pretend an issue has not already been exhaustively
> covered.  That is annoying enough when new people jump into the list
> without educating themselves about the status quo.  When, however, the
> same people keep doing it, with the implied threat that they'll keep
> this up indefinitely, keeping the rest of the list from doing useful
> work until their bidding is done, it is not funny.

I am getting tired of this and will probably like many others have
done before give up. I got some private mails about this when starting
to be more active in Emacs development.