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Re: About the :distant-foreground face attribute
From: |
Joel Mccracken |
Subject: |
Re: About the :distant-foreground face attribute |
Date: |
Tue, 7 Jan 2014 13:09:09 -0500 |
It seems like "contrast" could be used to explain the difference in a more
intuitive way.
On Jan 7, 2014, at 12:28 PM, Drew Adams <address@hidden> wrote:
>>> What is the purpose of this face attribute, newly introduced for
>>> 24.4?
>>
>> Too lazy to read documentation?
>>
>> "`:distant-foreground'
>> Alternative foreground color, a string. This is like
>> `:foreground'
>> but the color is only used as a foreground when the background
>> color is near to the foreground that would have been used.
>> This is useful for example when marking text (i.e. the region
>> face).
>> If the text has a foreground that is visible with the region
>> face, that foreground is used. If the foreground is near the
>> region face background, `:distant-foreground' is used instead
>> so the text is readable."
>
> I see. And just how does a user override this automatic "cleverness"?
> How can a user really make her preference for the face take effect?
>
> This kind of DWIMity should always allow users to take control back,
> and preferably easily. What you think might be best for all users
> all the time might not be what some user thinks is best for herself.
>
> And what about all of the existing code that tests :foreground or
> otherwise expects it to reflect the actual foreground used? Is that
> code broken now, because Emacs substitutes a :distant-foreground
> color behind its back? Must all such code now change to test first
> one and then the other?
>
> When was this design OK'd (and why)?
>
>>> First of all, the name :distant-foreground is not intuitive. What
>>> does "distant" mean in this context?
>>
>> The same as in any other context, far removed from something else,
>> i.e. the background.
>
> I agree with Yidong about the name. This is apparently a fallback,
> alternative color, when (you) think the color specified by the
> user or program is inappropriate.
>
>>> Besides that, the implementation seems rather incomplete. The
>>> Customize interface, `modify-face', `face-spec-reset-face', and
>>> other parts of Emacs haven't been updated for the existence of
>>> this face attribute.
>>
>> That is on purpose. It is supposed to be automatically calculated.
>
> So what? All the more reason to bring it out into the open, so
> users can know about it (and try to find some way to work around it,
> if they like).
>
>>> It's unclear what functions like `face-foreground' should now do
>>> if there's a :distant-foreground.
>>
>> No it is not.
>
> Yes it is. See above. Search the distributed code and the Internet
> for uses of "foreground" in Emacs Lisp code. How much of that code
> now needs to be modified to accommodate this gratuitous change.
>
> Was there a real problem, reported by a real user, that this change
> attempts to fix? Or is this just someone's clever brainchild for
> making Emacs smarter?
>
>>> This all sounds like an invitation for more bugs. In my opinion,
>>> this feature is a bad idea.
>
> +1
>
>> All new features invite new bugs, so are you saying we should never
>> add new features?
>
> All new features should be proposed and discussed, before being cast
> into the product. That's my humble opinion.
>
>> Your opinion is not very interesting, but if you have core for an
>> alternative approach that would be interesting.
>
> Why is any approach needed? What is the (real) problem that needs
> solving?
>
- About the :distant-foreground face attribute, Chong Yidong, 2014/01/07
- Re: About the :distant-foreground face attribute, Jan Djärv, 2014/01/07
- RE: About the :distant-foreground face attribute, Drew Adams, 2014/01/07
- Re: About the :distant-foreground face attribute, Eli Zaretskii, 2014/01/07
- RE: About the :distant-foreground face attribute, Drew Adams, 2014/01/07
- Re: About the :distant-foreground face attribute, Eli Zaretskii, 2014/01/07
- RE: About the :distant-foreground face attribute, Drew Adams, 2014/01/07
- Re: About the :distant-foreground face attribute, Eli Zaretskii, 2014/01/07
- Re: About the :distant-foreground face attribute,
Joel Mccracken <=
Re: About the :distant-foreground face attribute, Chong Yidong, 2014/01/07
- Re: About the :distant-foreground face attribute, Eli Zaretskii, 2014/01/07
- Re: About the :distant-foreground face attribute, Chong Yidong, 2014/01/08
- Re: About the :distant-foreground face attribute, Jan Djärv, 2014/01/08
- Re: About the :distant-foreground face attribute, Chong Yidong, 2014/01/08
- Re: About the :distant-foreground face attribute, Jan Djärv, 2014/01/08
- Re: About the :distant-foreground face attribute, Chong Yidong, 2014/01/08
- Re: About the :distant-foreground face attribute, Jan Djärv, 2014/01/08
- RE: About the :distant-foreground face attribute, Drew Adams, 2014/01/08
RE: About the :distant-foreground face attribute, Drew Adams, 2014/01/08