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Re: list of elisp primitives ?
From: |
Jean-Christophe Helary |
Subject: |
Re: list of elisp primitives ? |
Date: |
Sun, 22 Dec 2019 13:38:10 +0900 |
> On Dec 22, 2019, at 13:30, Eduardo Ochs <address@hidden> wrote:
>
> Ok...
>
> I don't think I can help, then...
>
> I've been teaching Emacs to lots of newbies lately, but my approach is
> exactly the opposite of that - I prefer to suppose that their memory
> is very bad and that they have very little focus, and I start by
> teaching them how to create sexp hyperlinks to everything that they
> find interesting in the info manual, in the elisp source, in manpages,
> in PDFs, and in several other kinds of places... here are four links
> to my approach if you'd like to take a look:
Thank you, that's very interesting.
But I think that's not so different from what I'm looking for. You still need
to teach learners a few basic skills and for that they do use their memory.
I'm thinking about 20-40 basic functions in elisp.
JC
>
> http://angg.twu.net/eev-intros/find-here-links-intro.html
> http://angg.twu.net/emacsconf2019.html
> http://angg.twu.net/eev-intros/find-emacs-keys-intro.html
> http://angg.twu.net/eev-intros/find-eev-quick-intro.html
>
> [[]],
> Eduardo Ochs
> http://angg.twu.net/#eev
>
>
> On Sun, 22 Dec 2019 at 01:15, Jean-Christophe Helary <address@hidden> wrote:
> What I'm trying to do is this:
>
> > I was thinking that because of the sheer amount of functions in the elisp
> > reference, it might be much easier to start programming with the primitives
> > to understand how elisp works at its core, and then climb the ladder when
> > need arises...
>
> i.e. trying to find a limited subset of functions that one can use to program
> in elisp and do non-trivial things but that do not involve searching the
> reference at all times.
>
> I'm thinking like in standard learners dictionaries, there are clear
> indications, like asterisks, that tell the learner whether the word is basic
> (generally about 2000 words) or intermediate (about 4000 words).
>
> People who know the basic words can get by and express most of what they need
> to express in daily life.
>
> For ex, it is estimated that there are about 140k words in French, but daily
> use only requires 1k. Let's lower the number of passively known words to 40k,
> that's 50 functions in Elisp...
>
> JC
>
> > On Dec 22, 2019, at 12:52, Eduardo Ochs <address@hidden> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jean-Christophe,
> > What are you trying to do?
> > If you'd like to discuss by IRC in #emacs at Freenode I'm edrx there...
> > [[]], E.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 22 Dec 2019 at 00:44, Jean-Christophe Helary <address@hidden> wrote:
> > Thank you Eduardo.
> >
> > That's 1290 functions...
> >
> > The reference seems to have 1608 functions and 294 commands, so those
> > primitives are not even a "useful subset" of emacs lisp functions...
> >
> > I guess that was a naïve idea. So I'll just have to go through the
> > reference and try to find myself a minimaly useful subset (which is what
> > the Intro should be about, btw.)
> >
> > > On Dec 22, 2019, at 12:21, Eduardo Ochs <address@hidden> wrote:
> > >
> > > Try this:
> > >
> > > (defun fboundp-and-subrp (symbol)
> > > (and (fboundp symbol) (subrp (symbol-function symbol))))
> > >
> > > (setq my-primitives (apropos-internal "^.*$" 'fboundp-and-subrp))
> > >
> > > (defun my-describe (symbol) (format "(describe-function '%S)\n" symbol))
> > >
> > > (insert (mapconcat 'my-describe my-primitives ""))
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, 22 Dec 2019 at 00:01, Jean-Christophe Helary <address@hidden>
> > > wrote:
> > > Is there a list of elisp primitive functions defined in C somewhere ?
> > >
> > > I was thinking that because of the sheer amount of functions in the elisp
> > > reference, it might be much easier to start programming with the
> > > primitives to understand how elisp works at its core, and then climb the
> > > ladder when need arises...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jean-Christophe Helary
> > > -----------------------------------------------
> > > http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune
- list of elisp primitives ?, Jean-Christophe Helary, 2019/12/21
- Re: list of elisp primitives ?, Eduardo Ochs, 2019/12/21
- Re: list of elisp primitives ?, Jean-Christophe Helary, 2019/12/21
- Message not available
- Re: list of elisp primitives ?, Jean-Christophe Helary, 2019/12/21
- Message not available
- Re: list of elisp primitives ?,
Jean-Christophe Helary <=
- Re: list of elisp primitives ?, Stephen Berman, 2019/12/22
- RE: list of elisp primitives ?, Drew Adams, 2019/12/22
- Re: list of elisp primitives ?, Jean-Christophe Helary, 2019/12/26
- RE: list of elisp primitives ?, arthur miller, 2019/12/26
- RE: list of elisp primitives ?, Drew Adams, 2019/12/26
- Re: list of elisp primitives ?, Jean-Christophe Helary, 2019/12/26
- Re: list of elisp primitives ?, Stefan Monnier, 2019/12/26
- Re: list of elisp primitives ?, Eduardo Ochs, 2019/12/26
- Re: list of elisp primitives ?, Jean-Christophe Helary, 2019/12/26
- Re: list of elisp primitives ?, Óscar Fuentes, 2019/12/22