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Re: Proposal for an improved `help-for-help'

From: Stefan Kangas
Subject: Re: Proposal for an improved `help-for-help'
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2021 08:35:06 -0500

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> I intend to finish this up and push this to master in the next couple of
>> days.  Please send any further comments soon, or we will have to
>> consider them after this lands on master.  Thanks in advance.
> You mean, comments to the one and only patch you posted?  I have some:

It was the second one I posted here, but yes.  You are replying to the
correct patch.

I'll need to look over the faces, but I did not do that yet.  I'll send
an updated patch in the next couple of days.

I have made the suggested changes in all cases where I don't comment

>> +    '(("Getting Help"
> I'd use something like "Describe and Find Commands, Keys, Functions".

That's fine, but it is a bit long.  I suggest "Basic Help" here, which
contrasts nicely against the other headings.  (Please see the attached

>> +       ("info" nil "Show all included manuals")
> That's inaccurate.  "Show top-level menu of all installed manuals",
> perhaps?

(Just to point out that the old text also said "included" but you are
correct that "installed" is more precise.)

Do we need to speak of "top-level menu", or can we get away with the
shorter "Show all installed manuals"?

Also, Howard Melman pointed out that "Info" is actually the mnemonic for
"i" here so perhaps we should actually speak of info here (even though
we don't do it in the headline)?  IOW, how about "Show all installed
Info manuals"?

(BTW, I think we should generally avoid using the "menu" terminology to
mean something other than top menus (i.e. `menu-bar-mode').  I know we
do it in many places in Emacs, but I find it unfortunate and confusing.)

>> +      ("Misc Help"
> "Other Help commands"
>> +      ("Help Files"
> "Misc"
>> +      ("Language Help"
> "I18n Help"

I'm basically fine with all that, but just to point out that we have in
the Info manual these sections:

* Language Help::       Help relating to international language support.
* Misc Help::           Other help commands.
* Help Files::          Commands to display auxiliary help files.

I am also not sure that "I18n" is clear to all our users, in particular
non-programmers.  It is clear from context of course, but some users
might find the abbreviation cryptic.  Perhaps "Internationalization" is
better, if a bit long.

> Thanks.

Thanks a lot for your detailed comments.  As I said in my reply to
Howard, please bare with me as I try to take all comments into account
and work out a coherent whole.

Attachment: help-for-help2.png
Description: PNG image

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