Re: utf-translate-cjk-mode

[Dave Love]

address@hidden (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> I guess this means that the language environment is set before .emacs
> is loaded?

See startup.el for the order in which things are done.

> In that case, it doesn't matter whether
> utf-translate-cjk-mode is set via Customize or not.  Right?

The necessary ordering is orthogonal to using Custom.

> Let me try to explain again.  I imagine that people who want to avoid
> Customize do it like this: they use Customize where necessary and
> avoid it where possible.

But that must mean they don't use it at all.

> This works fine.  But if the statements are swapped, then it fails.

It doesn't fail, as such, it just probably doesn't do what most users
expect.

> So people who do the above don't benefit from your
> shooting-in-the-foot protection.

I wasn't trying to stop foot-shooting.  People who know better can
always shoot feet.  I just want to DTRT for most users who want to use
CJK utf-8.

> Are you happy now, or is there anything missing?

As far as I know, the new definition is OK if `define-minor-mode' now
uses the keywords appropriately.  I knew it didn't rather recently.

There isn't a NEWS entry or anything in the manual about
`define-minor-mode' accepting keyword args.

I'm not happy with pejorative descriptions of Custom and complicating
things because people wish to avoid it for some reason.

> Since define-minor-mode groks :set-after, the above change would be
> required only for Lisp users.

It shouldn't be done.  If users avoid the Custom machinery, OK, but
it's silly effectively to re-implement it some other way.

> That means you were protecting Customize users from shooting
> themselves in the foot,

No.

> and I'm proposing to retain this and provide additional protection
> for those who abstain from Customize.

I guess they don't want protection anyhow.