Re: [AUCTeX] ConTeXt MkIV Support

[Tobias Berndt]

Hey guys,

please, do not misunderstand me. I have a quite clear idea of what it means to 
develop free software. I know, you guys are spending a lot of time and efforts 
maintaining such a big thing as Emacs' AucTeX. There are small budgets, you all 
having regular jobs and your private lifes and not all the time of the world. 
Most of your work has been done unpaid, just for the big goal 
itself---providing this wonderful TeX help system for Emacs: AucTeX! And I only 
can say: I have been appreciating that for many years, because I am working 
with TeX each and every day in my work-life, and I wouldn't know how to do my 
job without Emacs/AucTeX: it saves me time, it makes the whole thing as 
comfortable as possible and it is always up the date.

Yes, there are alternatives to the holy Emacs/AucTeX couple. But---believe 
me---I tried them all! Emacs and I wasn't the closest friends from the first 
moment. No! We had a terrible start, Emacs and me (several starts, to be 
honest) and the only reason for me to use Stallmans monochrome oldie, in our 
colorful, one-click-ahead IT world, is experience in coding TeX. Emacs is ugly, 
old, hard to get used to, but simply the most effective tool you can use coding 
TeX---period.

>>Not sure if I would bet on "the standard".  TeXworks, TeXstudio to mention 
>>two seem to be more popular to me, TeXworks is bundled with TeXlive and that 
>>is a plus.

TeXworks, TeXstudio, TeXwhatever are useful TeX environments. But as a 
writer/editor you'll miss the editorial power of an editor (hm, looks strange 
in English :). What I am trying to say is (and I can see it every day with my 
colleagues) TeXworks &c. are excellent in compiling TeX, but poorly in editing 
texts---and that's what I do most of the day.

>>I think the question is: how to get others to use Emacs? :-)

Let them use TeX! :)= No, Emacs seems like an anachronism, nowadays. Or better, 
it looks like. De facto, it is not. But people to convince to Emacs is hard, 
yes. Nevertheless, Emacs has its community. For serious work, it is popular 
software.

>>I think you've got me wrong here: I'm not trying to refuse ConTeXt, I'm 
>>trying to find a way to make Emacs/AUCTeX support better.  The way I see it, 
>>there are no developers around who are willing to improve the situation (for 
>>whatever reason).

Here, he is: (Marcin wrote)

>>I'd love to work on AUCTeX support for ConTeXt.  Unfortunately, I have very 
>>limited spare time now...  Maybe in a few months or so...

(back to Arash)

>>Let me put it this way: Are you willing to ask the ConTeXt community if there 
>>is enough demand to crowdfund ConTeXt MkIV support in AUCTeX?  If there is a 
>>demand, we can look after a person who can do the job.

No, I cannot do that because I am not an active member of the ConTeXt community 
(do not get me wrong this time: I'm not a ConTeXt fan; I just like/use its 
possibilities to do my work). What I can do is: If my company let me, I'll go 
to the next ConTeXt Meeting by the end of this month. There is a guy named 
Harald König. He is one of the ConTeXt developers, I guess, and he is an Emacs 
hacker (and probably good enough in programming LISP). Hence I could ask him to 
get in touch with you. And I could ask the whole ConTeXt crowd whether or not 
they have interest/ideas to help getting ConTeXt MkIV support into Emacs.

>>Given how many people in the maths community still use LaTeX 2.09, which 
>>should have been *dead* for some, I don't know, fifteen years or so - I 
>>seriously doubt that they will switch anytime soon.

Since their only real interest in TeX is typesetting math, why they should be 
interested in switching to ConTeXt? They don't care about web formats, animated 
PDFs, interactive contents, document management, databases, program language 
support, METAFUN, clever text tools &c.pp. Just for typesetting math, even I 
would stay with LaTeX!

I really understand: Resources of time will be wisely managed within free 
software projects. And popularity plays a certain role. But such projects 
succeeded not least because of the ravages of time, being up-the-date also with 
modern---not that popular yet---alternatives.


Have a nice day, tobber







Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Tobias Berndt
Technischer Redakteur

baramundi software AG
Beim Glaspalast 1
86153 Augsburg

address@hidden
www.baramundi.de

Fon: +49 (821) 5 67 08 -  577
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-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Arash Esbati [mailto:address@hidden Im Auftrag von Arash Esbati
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. September 2016 22:09
An: Tobias Berndt <address@hidden>
Cc: Mosè Giordano <address@hidden>; auctex <address@hidden>
Betreff: Re: ConTeXt MkIV Support

Tobias Berndt <address@hidden> writes:

>>It seems that there is some support for scite:
>
>>
>> https://github.com/contextgarden/context-mirror/tree/beta/context/dat
>> a
>
>>There is also some support for TeXworks.
>
> Yes, I know that. And since Scite is recommended by ConTeXt developers
> on their page, there're people using it for coding ConTeXt. BUT Emacs
> (+ AucTeX) has been becoming the standard for working with tex-files
> for years.

Not sure if I would bet on "the standard".  TeXworks, TeXstudio to mention two 
seem to be more popular to me; TeXworks is bundled with TeXlive and that is a 
plus.

> I wouldn't change to any other editor ...

I think the question is: how to get others to use Emacs? :-)

> and one reason to prefer Scite to Emacs editing ConTeXt might be the
> missing Emacs support for ConTeXt MkIV?

That is always a reason: If you are a heavy ConTeXt user and Emacs/AUCTeX 
support is poor, then ...

>>I have no idea about ConTeXt community, but do you think it is big
>>enough and the demand for Emacs support is large >enough to
>>financially support somebody to write that support?  Of course, that
>>someone is to be found (and will not be >me).
>
> Tough! I personally think since Emacs/AucTeX is the state of the
> art-tool for editing TeX, you shouldn't refuse support for such an
> important TeX development like ConTeXt

I think you've got me wrong here: I'm not trying to refuse ConTeXt, I'm trying 
to find a way to make Emacs/AUCTeX support better.  The way I see it, there are 
no developers around who are willing to improve the situation (for whatever 
reason).

> Is there already a relevant community, big enough and hence worth to
> spent money developing an AucTeX support for ConTeXt MkIV? I wished I
> could simple say YES, go for it! But, I do not know? I can say,
> community is growing on a smooth level.

Let me put it this way: Are you willing to ask the ConTeXt community if there 
is enough demand to crowdfund ConTeXt MkIV support in AUCTeX?  If there is a 
demand, we can look after a person who can do the job.

Best, Arash